What effect does more or less kneading have on the final product?

I usually throw my proofed sponge into a bread machine and run the dough
cycle to knead in the other ingredients; adding flour and/or water to
achieve a good dough consistency. I tend to try to the dough feeling right
as quickly as possible. That's generally around 5 minutes of machine
kneading if my recipe is well planned.

On my last loaf of French bread I was experimenting with a new recipe (heavy
on sponge that was not precisely controlled for hydration)--I overshot the
flour by quite a bit, leaving me needing to add a lot of water. It took the
full 30 minute knead before I had the dough just right. The bread turned
out really good. It was much softer than usual.

Can anybody elaborate on the difference of a dough that is heavily kneaded
versus dough that is unkneaded or lightly kneaded? Was my bread softer for
reasons other than kneading?

Thanks.

On Sun, 14 May 2006 03:55:14 GMT, "brewkettel"
> wrote:

>
>Can anybody elaborate on the difference of a dough that is heavily kneaded
>versus dough that is unkneaded or lightly kneaded?

Howdy,

In my experience, (other things being equal) more kneading
leads to a finer crumb, that is, to smaller holes.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

"Kenneth" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 14 May 2006 03:55:14 GMT, "brewkettel"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>Can anybody elaborate on the difference of a dough that is heavily kneaded
>>versus dough that is unkneaded or lightly kneaded?
>
> Howdy,
>
> In my experience, (other things being equal) more kneading
> leads to a finer crumb, that is, to smaller holes.
>
> All the best,
> --
> Kenneth


On the smaller hole thing, I have always wondered about the desire of the
"big hole" goal in artisan type breads, so easily attained when using
no-knead methods incorporating stretch and folds. This folding literally
traps little pockets of the same air we breathe from the room in the folds,
so while the technique develops gluten as kneading would do, I find that
actually kneading results in a better loaf (my opinion, though it is jaded
by the fact that I enjoy kneading so much), and as I knead by hand I have
found the more the better (I try to knead a full ten minutes per loafs worth
of dough now). I have not found this gives me really smaller holes, just
that the big "cheater" holes I used to get from stretch and folds are absent
without sacrificing loaf height. Anyways, I fail to see the advantage of
having large air holes in a slice of bread.

hutchndi

From my limited experience, I am finding that I can knead about 3 minutes or
less every 45 minutes during the mixing and first rise. I get a fine crumb
without big holes. Using buttermilk in the dough appears to help the
kneading along at a much faster pace. It appears I get the same result as
if I spend 15 to 20 minutes minutes upfront kneading of the dough (which is
more difficult since the dough is a bit more difficult to work).

>>>Can anybody elaborate on the difference of a dough that is heavily
>>>kneaded
>>>versus dough that is unkneaded or lightly kneaded?
>>
>> Howdy,
>>
>> In my experience, (other things being equal) more kneading
>> leads to a finer crumb, that is, to smaller holes.
>>
>> All the best,
>> --
>> Kenneth
>
>
> On the smaller hole thing, I have always wondered about the desire of the
> "big hole" goal in artisan type breads, so easily attained when using
> no-knead methods incorporating stretch and folds. This folding literally
> traps little pockets of the same air we breathe from the room in the
> folds, so while the technique develops gluten as kneading would do, I find
> that actually kneading results in a better loaf (my opinion, though it is
> jaded by the fact that I enjoy kneading so much), and as I knead by hand I
> have found the more the better (I try to knead a full ten minutes per
> loafs worth of dough now). I have not found this gives me really smaller
> holes, just that the big "cheater" holes I used to get from stretch and
> folds are absent without sacrificing loaf height. Anyways, I fail to see
> the advantage of having large air holes in a slice of bread.
>
> hutchndi
>