Rookie question... for best results, should I be feeding my starter bakers
flour, or is all purpose flour just as good?

Thanks,
Chris

On Jun 27, 9:20*am, "Chris" > wrote:

> The protein level in the flour has far less (if anything)
> to do with the rise than the hydration and handling...


I think you should consider inoculation levels and temperature
management.

One trick to getting lofty bread with large holes is to match the
maturity of the dough, to the maturity of the ferment.
If you can slow the initial, or bulk phase, down (less starter, cooler
temperature... most typically a combination of both), the dough will
have sufficient time to more fully develop gluten before the ferment
phase becomes active. To put it another way... your goal is to have
well developed gluten BEFORE the active fermentation step. It is also
well established that machine kneading is not the best way to develop
gluten. Put the machine away.

A lot of bakers retard their dough (keep it cold) to develop their
gluten, shape their loaves gently to avoid degassing, then push their
final proof with heat to maximize gas production. This works well.

Your hydration level should be somewhere between 68 and 72 percent,
until you get really good handling wet dough. Then you can move it to
75%... but you need strong flour to do this.

Thanks Will, good interesting info to add to my experimenting.

Don't worry, the machine hasn't played any part in my sourdough, I only use
it to bake our daily bread (laziness is my only excuse).

Chris

"Will" > wrote in message
...
On Jun 27, 9:20 am, "Chris" > wrote:

> The protein level in the flour has far less (if anything)
> to do with the rise than the hydration and handling...


I think you should consider inoculation levels and temperature
management.

One trick to getting lofty bread with large holes is to match the
maturity of the dough, to the maturity of the ferment.
If you can slow the initial, or bulk phase, down (less starter, cooler
temperature... most typically a combination of both), the dough will
have sufficient time to more fully develop gluten before the ferment
phase becomes active. To put it another way... your goal is to have
well developed gluten BEFORE the active fermentation step. It is also
well established that machine kneading is not the best way to develop
gluten. Put the machine away.

A lot of bakers retard their dough (keep it cold) to develop their
gluten, shape their loaves gently to avoid degassing, then push their
final proof with heat to maximize gas production. This works well.

Your hydration level should be somewhere between 68 and 72 percent,
until you get really good handling wet dough. Then you can move it to
75%... but you need strong flour to do this.

On 6/27/2010 03:16, Chris wrote:
> Thanks Sam. So we're not interested in the strength of the flour in the
> starter, only that it is healthy and active, is that correct?
>
Yes, that's true.

High germ count of active organisms in the right proportion (yeasts, LB's).

It may be of interest that the highest activity does not indicate the
peak of active organisms - that's right after.
And - if one does not use baker's yeast to rise bread and the starter is
lacking, any dough technique won't make up for it.

One major mistake seeming to come up here is that people don't realize
feeding requirements of starters which - when in good shape double their
population in something like 2 - 3 hours. That goes exponential 2 4 8.

If feeding - flour multiplication of flour in inoculation (previous step
in multi-step starter growing) is not matched to growth rate, starter
looses.


Good luck with your project.

Sam

Since the guys have provided plenty of science, here's some anecdote:
I thought big holes and/or low density were the hallmarks of a great
loaf, and I was discouraged that my 65% rye loaf with a full rye
starter was too dense. That was until several Germans and Polish folks
tried my bread and nearly wept for home. There is no correct answer to
the perfect loaf. Just have fun eating your results.

Great post Matt!

"Matt Fitz" > wrote in message
...
> Since the guys have provided plenty of science, here's some anecdote:
> I thought big holes and/or low density were the hallmarks of a great
> loaf, and I was discouraged that my 65% rye loaf with a full rye
> starter was too dense. That was until several Germans and Polish folks
> tried my bread and nearly wept for home. There is no correct answer to
> the perfect loaf. Just have fun eating your results.