I'd heard about it. And I was so sure it'd never happen to me. But, I'd
gotten into the habits of someone who keeps their culture in a
refrigerator, and keeping at room temperature was just, well, different.

All of which means.. the culture was as liquid as water. And when we
added flour.... it never firmed up. It was... scary.

In the end, recovery was easy. We took a tablespoon of the culture.
Added 1/2 a pound of water and 1/2 a pound of flour. Eight hours later,
another 1/2 pound of each. Eight hours later a pound of each. And we
had the happy starter we had once enjoyed back again. Kinda like
giving a whiny kid a nap.

Mike
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Mike Avery wrote:
>
> ...And I was so sure it'd never happen to me...
> ...All of which means.. the culture was as liquid as water. And when we
> added flour.... it never firmed up. It was... scary.

I sure know that feeling. It is even worse when the culture does
not respond to recovery treatment.

>
> In the end, recovery was easy. We took a tablespoon of the culture.
> Added 1/2 a pound of water and 1/2 a pound of flour. Eight hours later,
> another 1/2 pound of each. Eight hours later a pound of each. And we
> had the happy starter we had once enjoyed back again.

You were lucky. I have found that when there are many foamy tiny
pinpoint bubbles the start will usually recover even if it takes
longer in treatment than your starter did. When it goes straight
to soup with no bubbles other than those caused by stiring, the
odds are against you. I have had to renew the mother culture
with frozen back up when cursed with the gluten disolving state.

I have managed to convince myself that my worst case was caused
by bad flour. It is easier for me to accept that than to
contemplate the possibility that I may have somehow angered a
Bread Faerie. I changed my procedure for feeding the mother
culture so that I get it active before any large dilution to
lessen the chance of having the culture overwhelmed by invasive
critters.

I think it is a fairly rare problem. I don't hear of it very
often, at least.

Regards,

Charles

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Charles Perry wrote:
>
> Mike Avery wrote:
> >
> > ...And I was so sure it'd never happen to me...
> > ...All of which means.. the culture was as liquid as water. And when we
> > added flour.... it never firmed up. It was... scary.

>
> I think it is a fairly rare problem. I don't hear of it very
> often, at least.


When I started with sourdough I was dancing on the edge of this condition all the time. I kept the starter on the counter, was feeding it once or twice a day and never more than doubled it with a feeding. (Treating it like a pure yeast culture for brewing). Very sour and very runny starter. I made a lot of sour bricks during that time.

Since moving to this technique:
http://lumpymuffins.home.comcast.net...h/NoWaste.html
I've been quite happy with my results.


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On 17 Dec 2003 at 1:12, Samartha Deva wrote:

> Mike Avery wrote:

> > All of which means.. the culture was as liquid as water. And when
> > we added flour.... it never firmed up. It was... scary.

> How did you get there? I think you must have had it fermenting into
> oblivion to become a soup as you describe.

I had a bucket fermenting away in my proofing cabinet at about 80F for
3 days without being fed. It ate everything. And then ate whatever
was left.

> When you say that it "never firmed up" - at what ratio were you adding
> flour without getting firm?

I was trying to make dough. About a cup of starter, some water, and 9
cups of flour, plus some salt. The dough just liquified....

Mike


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Mike Avery wrote:
>
> ...I had a bucket fermenting away in my proofing cabinet at about 80F for
> 3 days without being fed. It ate everything. And then ate whatever
> was left.
>
>When It happened to me, it was reasonably well cared for starter from the icebox. It was, however very high dilution of the culture. I had been in the practice of pouring out the starter and renewing the culture with what stuck to the side of the jar. Unfortunately, for some reason I had diluted the starter with water before pouring out the culture so there was less than usual sticking to the jar. It should not have been a problem, but I think I had bad flour. I know it was old flour.
>
> ...I was trying to make dough. About a cup of starter, some water, and 9
> cups of flour, plus some salt. The dough just liquified....

That describes it well. You might as well be using white dirt as
flour. You can get paste or mud , but not anything resembling
dough.

Regards,

Charles
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Reply to:

** A balanced diet is a cookie in each hand **

Mike Avery wrote:
>
> I'd heard about it. And I was so sure it'd never happen to me. But, I'd
> gotten into the habits of someone who keeps their culture in a
> refrigerator, and keeping at room temperature was just, well, different.
>
> All of which means.. the culture was as liquid as water. And when we
> added flour.... it never firmed up. It was... scary.

How did you get there? I think you must have had it fermenting into
oblivion to become a soup as you describe.

When you say that it "never firmed up" - at what ratio were you adding
flour without getting firm?


Samartha

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