Is there a more reliable method of determining dough maturity in the
first bulk ferment, where there is only one bulk prove and then a
final prove. I normally go on dough doubling and some experience but
find this does not always work. Can one use ph testing or something
like that. Open to any suggestions. Paddy

On Mar 27, 12:05 pm, "padriac" > wrote:
> Is there a more reliable method of determining dough maturity in the
> first bulk ferment, where there is only one bulk prove and then a
> final prove. I normally go on dough doubling and some experience but
> find this does not always work. Can one use ph testing or something
> like that. Open to any suggestions. Paddy

I am feeling a bit neglected no replies to my post, come on surely
someone has some ideas. Paddy

On 29 Mar, 00:17, "padriac" > wrote:

> > ..., where there is only one bulk prove and then a
> > final prove. .... Paddy
>

Ah common Paddy, you know the answer to that.

Jim

padriac wrote:

> On Mar 27, 12:05 pm, "padriac" > wrote:
>> Is there a more reliable method of determining dough maturity...
>
> I am feeling a bit neglected no replies to my post, come on surely
> someone has some ideas. Paddy

Fine. It's mature when fills the tank after borrowing the car for the
evening.

B/

On Mar 30, 5:37 am, Brian Mailman > wrote:
> padriac wrote:
> > On Mar 27, 12:05 pm, "padriac" > wrote:
> >> Is there a more reliable method of determining dough maturity...
>
> > I am feeling a bit neglected no replies to my post, come on surely
> > someone has some ideas. Paddy
>
> Fine. It's mature when fills the tank after borrowing the car for the
> evening.
>
> B/

OK more specific has anyone had any experience of using ph testing of
doughs as an indicator of dough development and maturity.Is it a
useful thing to do. Paddy

On Mar 29, 5:46 pm, "padriac" > wrote:
> > > I am feeling a bit neglected no replies to my post, come on surely
> > > someone has some ideas. Paddy

The only person here I'm aware of who's done the pH route is Samartha,
although Dickie might have used litmus paper once or twice.

It seems to me that you can use your nose. That's probably not the
answer you wanted since it's not something that has a number
associated with it (and I'm guessing Boron is rolling on her kitchen
floor laughing) but it is true, your nose is a pretty good instrument.
Ripe dough smells like ripe dough. Immature dough smells like flour.

And there is always touch. The old books talk about dough vigor... how
a baker can feel it with his hands. I am sure you know the differences
between dough one hour out, two hours out, six hours out... and so
forth.

Would measuring pH be better? Maybe... but it would cost about $200 to
prove it. That's a lot of doh <g>.

Will wrote:
> On Mar 29, 5:46 pm, "padriac" > wrote:
>>>> I am feeling a bit neglected no replies to my post, come on surely
>>>> someone has some ideas. Paddy
>
> The only person here I'm aware of who's done the pH route is Samartha,
> although Dickie might have used litmus paper once or twice.
>
Yes - that was useful and interesting in the beginning with starters.
But since using the DM3 procedure it became practically obsolete.

Before that (DM3), I was overfermenting a lot without knowing any better.

Then, I tried fermenting less and developing the dough better which
improved the whole project significantly.

By my measures, digital thermometer, fish tank thermostats, small water
fountain pumps and plastic containers to hold the water temperature
constant are much more useful in a practical sense.

Reason: Actively control the temperature. With a pH meter, one runs
after the fact and measures what has happened. That's observation, not
control. And it gets boring very quickly because the same thing happens
all the time - it gets sour, more or less quickly mainly depending on
temperature.

A couple of degrees in temperature make a difference and once it gets
going, 1/2 hour longer dough fermentation can make a big difference.

Sure - nose works and the "whole experience", but that takes time, I guess..

Samartha

"Samartha Deva" requoted Dicky as follows:

> > Dickie might have used litmus paper once or twice.

I am on the trail of an "organic" indicator dye which turns color from
green or blue to orange or yellow as the pH falls through the sourdough
range, to be compounded with dough. It should be "organic" in the
sense that fastidious health-food devotees will not object to it, and,
because no sane person wants to eat orange or yellow bread, it should
bleach at the internal temperature reached in bread during baking.

The best thing would be a microorganism, symbiotic to SD yeast and
lactobacteria, which metabolically creates the colorant. Hey, we could
put that in the starts.

I will keep you all informed of my progress.

--
Dicky

On 30 Mar, 02:55, "Will" > wrote:

> The only person here I'm aware of who's done the pH route is Samartha,
> although Dickie might have used litmus paper once or twice.
>
> It seems to me that you can use your nose.

Would it be going red for acid blue for alkali, or something
different? <g>

Jim

On 30 Mar, 14:40, "Dick Adams" <Bad.A..nonexist.com> wrote:
...
>
> I am on the trail of an "organic" indicator dye ..> --
> Dicky

Would that have to be GM though Dicky? What you gain on the organic
you might lose on the GM front. You should patent it quick.

Jim

On Mar 30, 9:13 am, "TG" > wrote:
> On 30 Mar, 02:55, "Will" > wrote:
>
> > The only person here I'm aware of who's done the pH route is Samartha,
> > although Dickie might have used litmus paper once or twice.
>
> > It seems to me that you can use your nose.
>
> Would it be going red for acid blue for alkali, or something
> different? <g>
>
> Jim

Absolutely. I forgot to mention the mirror but yes...

"Brian Mailman" > wrote in message ...
> It's mature when fills the tank after borrowing the car for the
> evening.

Mine don't drive, but I figure they are mature when they have
risen to 5 volumes. But, if one is not using a bromated flour
like GM 50111 http://www.gmflour.com/gmflour/flour...=Espring#50111
it is not likely that one will see those kind of rises.

--
Dicky