I'm on my third attempt to make a sourdough starter, following Mike Avery's instructions on his web site, and yes I'm
battling all those demons he mentions. The first try, using organic rye flour from Arrowhead Mills, I gave about 3-4
days with no sign of gas bubbles at all although it did seem to begin to smell good by the 2nd day. I added an extra 1/4
cup water because it was a pretty stiff mixture (originally 1/4 cup water, 3/8 cup flour). For warmth I'm using a new
mechanics drop light(40 watt bulb) in a roaster oven, controlling the heat by adjusting the cover opening a bit...70-85
degrees all the time. The second try, no extra water added, after 2 days was smelling good, no bubbles, but developing
a nice white fluffy mold. After three or four days, with the mold starting to look important, I tossed the lot.

I'm on my third try now, switched to some organic whole wheat flour, and at the 29 hour point the mixture smells good,
there is a little liquid along the sides, but no bubbles. If I don't get any mold I'm planning to give it 3-4 days, but
I really don't know where to stop, or if there are any tricks I should be using (adding vinegar??). I'd love to hear
some suggestions at this point.

Regards, jc

jc > wrote in
:

> I'm on my third attempt to make a sourdough starter, following Mike
> Avery's instructions on his web site, and yes I'm battling all those
> demons he mentions. The first try, using organic rye flour from
> Arrowhead Mills, I gave about 3-4 days with no sign of gas bubbles at
> all although it did seem to begin to smell good by the 2nd day. I
> added an extra 1/4 cup water because it was a pretty stiff mixture
> (originally 1/4 cup water, 3/8 cup flour).

I'd make it the other way round, i.e. 1/4 cup rye flour to 3/8 cup of
water, nothing else but warmth, about 25C and bubbles should appear in 24
hours.

Regards Brian

Brian > wrote in
:

> jc > wrote in
> :
>
>> I'm on my third attempt to make a sourdough starter, following Mike
>> Avery's instructions on his web site, and yes I'm battling all those
>> demons he mentions. The first try, using organic rye flour from
>> Arrowhead Mills, I gave about 3-4 days with no sign of gas bubbles
>> at all although it did seem to begin to smell good by the 2nd day. I
>> added an extra 1/4 cup water because it was a pretty stiff mixture
>> (originally 1/4 cup water, 3/8 cup flour).
>
> I'd make it the other way round, i.e. 1/4 cup rye flour to 3/8 cup of
> water, nothing else but warmth, about 25C and bubbles should appear
> in 24 hours.
>
> Regards Brian

I should add that I pack the flour tightly in the 1/4 cup.

On 4 Feb, 03:08, jc > wrote:
> I'm on my third attempt to make a sourdough starter,...
> Regards, jc

I've made lots of starters following theaw basic instructions-

How To Make Your Own Starter From Scratch.

· 1. Take:

2 oz (50g) of Whole Wheat or Rye (Organic if you can)
2 oz (50g) of Chlorine free water ±80F (±25C)(boiled, filtered,
bottled,
some good tap waters)

Mix in a container with a loose fitting lid or film and set aside in a
warm
(±80F (±25C)) place.

· 2. After 24 hours throw half of the mix away and feed with the
above.

· 3. Repeat until the mixture shows some bubbles, probably on the
third or fourth day.

· 4. When the mix starts to show some bubbles feed, for best results,
with the flour you intend to bake with.

· 5. Once the mixture shows a lot of activity two - four hours after
feeding and smells of of alcohol it's ready.

On Feb 3, 9:08 pm, jc > wrote:

> I really don't know where to stop, or if there are any tricks I should be using (adding vinegar??). I'd love to hear
> some suggestions at this point.

Try this... go back to the organic rye. Mix up a dough ball about the
size of a golf ball. Start with 2 tablespoons of water, knead (with
clean hands) enough rye to make a reasonably stiff ball. Then, roll
the ball in the remaining flour to ensure that it is coated and dry on
the exterior. This dry coated "skin" will protect the interior from
contamination. Store in a clean, covered container on the counter, out
of direct light. Let it sit for 3 days. After 3 days, use a knife and
remove the dry exterior of the dough ball. Mix the remaining interior
dough with enough rye and water to replace to discarded material. This
is your first refreshment. Refresh another 3 times using 2 day cycles.
You should notice a ripe cider-y smell developing.

I'm happy to say that when I checked my 3rd attempt, at 27 hours, there was signs of activity, the mass was puffy and
larger, smelled good. Since then I've feed it twice, moved it to a larger plastic container, and now I have a
question.

I've started with 1/4 cup water, 38 cup flour, and each feeding I've repeated this amount. But I'm wondering if I
should be increasing the size of the feeding, which I'm doing every 12 hours, to reflect the increased size. Mike
Avery's instructions don't mention an increase in the feeding amount, so I'm going to continue with the original size,
but that seems counterintuitive. Could someone let me know about this.

jc


>I'm on my third attempt to make a sourdough starter, following Mike Avery's instructions on his web site, and yes I'm
>battling all those demons he mentions. The first try, using organic rye flour from Arrowhead Mills, I gave about 3-4
>days with no sign of gas bubbles at all although it did seem to begin to smell good by the 2nd day. I added an extra 1/4
>cup water because it was a pretty stiff mixture (originally 1/4 cup water, 3/8 cup flour). For warmth I'm using a new
>mechanics drop light(40 watt bulb) in a roaster oven, controlling the heat by adjusting the cover opening a bit...70-85
>degrees all the time. The second try, no extra water added, after 2 days was smelling good, no bubbles, but developing
>a nice white fluffy mold. After three or four days, with the mold starting to look important, I tossed the lot.
>
>I'm on my third try now, switched to some organic whole wheat flour, and at the 29 hour point the mixture smells good,
>there is a little liquid along the sides, but no bubbles. If I don't get any mold I'm planning to give it 3-4 days, but
>I really don't know where to stop, or if there are any tricks I should be using (adding vinegar??). I'd love to hear
>some suggestions at this point.
>
>Regards, jc

jc wrote:
> I'm happy to say that when I checked my 3rd attempt, at 27 hours, there was signs of activity, the mass was puffy and larger, smelled good. Since then I've feed it twice, moved it to a larger plastic container, and now I have a question.
>
> I've started with 1/4 cup water, 38 cup flour, and each feeding I've repeated this amount. But I'm wondering if I should be increasing the size of the feeding, which I'm doing every 12 hours, to reflect the increased size. Mike Avery's instructions don't mention an increase in the feeding amount, so I'm going to continue with the original size, but that seems counterintuitive. Could someone let me know about this.
>
Mike's instructions read, "Once you see signs of life, add another 1/4
cup of chlorine free water and 3/8 cup of whole grain flour. Cover the
container, and put it back in the warm area.

"At this point, you will need to feed your starter regularly to
encourage the growth of the micro-organisms. Every 8 to 12 hours you
need to feed the starter. You should double the size of the starter with
each feeding. This will get out of control pretty quickly, so to keep
from being overwhelmed by starter, you should discard 1/2 the starter
before each feeding of the starter."

Mike's elaborated instructions are, if you have problems with one of
Mike's recipes or procedures, ask him for help.

Mike

--
Mike Avery mavery at mail dot otherwhen dot com
part time baker ICQ 16241692
networking guru AIM, yahoo and skype mavery81230
wordsmith

Once seen on road signs all over the United States:
Just moisten
Your tooth brush
Dip in jar
And you'll enjoy
Cleaner teeth by far
Burma-Vita Tooth Powder

This is why I like the little dough balls. The discarding of the dry
exterior is intuitive and the size stays manageable. You don't go
crazy watching for little bubbles, or pondering the rate of bubbling.
You don't get questions about hootch. Finally... you start noobies off
right: firm starter needs less TLC and it needs less refreshments in
storage mode.

What I wasn't sure about was the line "you should double the size of the starter with each feeding"...does this mean you
should add an equivalent (equal to the current mass) amount of flour/water each feeding, or does it mean that the mass
will double each time you add the original amount of 1/4 cup water and 3/8 cup flour.

btw, I like looking for the gas bubbles...it makes me think the little yeasties have just had a good meal and are
happily burping away and passing gas.

jc

On Mon, 05 Feb 2007 16:16:30 -0700, Mike Avery > wrote:

>jc wrote:
>> I'm happy to say that when I checked my 3rd attempt, at 27 hours, there was signs of activity, the mass was puffy and larger, smelled good. Since then I've feed it twice, moved it to a larger plastic container, and now I have a question.
>>
>> I've started with 1/4 cup water, 38 cup flour, and each feeding I've repeated this amount. But I'm wondering if I should be increasing the size of the feeding, which I'm doing every 12 hours, to reflect the increased size. Mike Avery's instructions don't mention an increase in the feeding amount, so I'm going to continue with the original size, but that seems counterintuitive. Could someone let me know about this.
>>
>Mike's instructions read, "Once you see signs of life, add another 1/4
>cup of chlorine free water and 3/8 cup of whole grain flour. Cover the
>container, and put it back in the warm area.
>
>"At this point, you will need to feed your starter regularly to
>encourage the growth of the micro-organisms. Every 8 to 12 hours you
>need to feed the starter. You should double the size of the starter with
>each feeding. This will get out of control pretty quickly, so to keep
>from being overwhelmed by starter, you should discard 1/2 the starter
>before each feeding of the starter."
>
>Mike's elaborated instructions are, if you have problems with one of
>Mike's recipes or procedures, ask him for help.
>
>Mike

jc wrote:
> What I wasn't sure about was the line "you should double the size of the starter with each feeding"...does this mean you should add an equivalent (equal to the current mass) amount of flour/water each feeding, or does it mean that the mass will double each time you add the original amount of 1/4 cup water and 3/8 cup flour.
>
You started with 1/4 cup water and 3/8 cup flour.
You added 1/4 cup water and 3/8 cup flour.

You discard 1/2 the amount of starter.
You add (get ready.... here it comes.... hold on...) 1/4 cup water and
3/8 cup flour.

> btw, I like looking for the gas bubbles...it makes me think the little yeasties have just had a good meal and are happily burping away and passing gas.
>
There is a bit of lag time after you feed the starter before it starts
visibly bubbling away.

Mike



--
Mike Avery mavery at mail dot otherwhen dot com
part time baker ICQ 16241692
networking guru AIM, yahoo and skype mavery81230
wordsmith

Once seen on road signs all over the United States:
Shaving brush
And soapy smear
Went out of
Style with
Hoops my dear
Burma-Shave

"Will" > wrote in message oups.com...
> Finally... you start noobies off right ...

What fun is that?

jc wrote:
> What I wasn't sure about was the line "you should double the size of the starter with each feeding"...does this mean you should add an equivalent (equal to the current mass) amount of flour/water each feeding, or does it mean that the mass will double each time you add the original amount of 1/4 cup water and 3/8 cup flour.
>
My previous answer was both incomplete and rude. I'm working on my
taxes and am more than a bit aggravated. Sorry if I offended.

OK... if you aren't maintaining your starter, but you are trying to make
it grow.. you start with
1/4 cup water 3/8 cup flour and you add
1/4 cup water 3/8 cup flour and the quantity is doubled, to double
again, you add
1/2 cup water 3/4 cup flour and the quantity is again doubled, and non
USA resident members will be happy they weigh ingredients... to double
again, add
1 cup water 1 1/2 cups flour.. and so on.

Mike



--
Mike Avery mavery at mail dot otherwhen dot com
part time baker ICQ 16241692
networking guru AIM, yahoo and skype mavery81230
wordsmith

A Randomly Selected Thought For The Day:
Looking at the two candidates makes you grateful only one can be elected