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  #46 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 02-10-2003, 03:46 PM
Matti Lamprhey
 
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Default Pukka mealtimes

"Reid©" wrote...
Following up to Matti Lamprhey

Hmm. I don't think olive oil will stand up to the high temperatures
which are often associated with deep frying. I wouldn't use it for
chips, f'r instance.


Its smoke point is 210C Sunflower oil 200C Corn oil 210C.
Rapeseed and Grapeseed have slightly higher smokepoints but all
are OK for deep frying. You might of course like or dislike the
taste imparted, which is not typical for english chips.


My own research doesn't back up your figure of 210C for the smoking
point of olive oil (or the other ones you quoted, either). This table
from Holland & Barrett seems to accord with the info from other sites
(celsius converted from fahrenheit):

DegC Type
271 Avocado
240 Soya
232 Corn, peanut, safflower, sunflower (refined)
210 Sesame
204 Rapeseed, walnut
176 Olive

Now I would say that chips need to be finished off at a temperature of
185C to 195C, so olive oil is clearly contra-indicated.

Matti
-- posting from alt.usage.english, where food is our forte




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Old 02-10-2003, 03:50 PM
Reid©
 
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Following up to dcw

Properly spelled "'n'",


I suppose fish 'n' chips indicates the missing letters and fish
"n" chips indicates it's an informal word?
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
UK walking "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email [email protected] this site
Spain,cuisines and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- [email protected] all, it's a spamtrap
  #48 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 02-10-2003, 04:11 PM
David Wilkinson
 
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On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 15:46:29 +0100, "Matti Lamprhey"
wrote:

My own research doesn't back up your figure of 210C for the smoking
point of olive oil (or the other ones you quoted, either).


If you look at

http://www.oliveoilsource.com/olivechemistry.htm

that gives a smoke point of 420F for virgin olive oil, which is around
215C.

So which is correct?

Dave W.

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Old 02-10-2003, 04:34 PM
mUs1Ka
 
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Default Pukka mealtimes


"Peter H.M. Brooks" wrote in message
...

"mUs1Ka" wrote in message
...

I have always considered 8.00 for 8.30 to mean aperitifs served at 8.00,
dinner served at 8.30.
Is this not the case?

Yes, but that is time for a small sherry only, and then only if it is a

tiny
dinner party, eight people or fewer - any more and it takes longer even

for
sherry.

You must be a very slow drinker.
m.


  #50 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 02-10-2003, 04:57 PM
Javi
 
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The carbon unit using the name David Wilkinson in
gave utterance as follows:

On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 15:46:29 +0100, "Matti Lamprhey"
wrote:

My own research doesn't back up your figure of 210C for the smoking
point of olive oil (or the other ones you quoted, either).


If you look at

http://www.oliveoilsource.com/olivechemistry.htm

that gives a smoke point of 420F for virgin olive oil, which is around
215C.

So which is correct?



It is common knowledge here in Spain that olive oil do not burn as easily as
seed oils, but, really, I don't know. I'll try to find out and tell you all.

--
Saludos cordiales

Javi

Conjunction of an irregular verb:

I am firm.
You are obstinate.
He is a pig-headed fool.





  #51 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 02-10-2003, 06:19 PM
Reid©
 
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Default Pukka mealtimes

Following up to Matti Lamprhey

My own research doesn't back up your figure of 210C for the smoking
point of olive oil (or the other ones you quoted, either). This table
from Holland & Barrett seems to accord with the info from other sites
(celsius converted from fahrenheit):

DegC Type
271 Avocado
240 Soya
232 Corn peanut, safflower, sunflower (refined)
210 Sesame
204 Rapeseed, walnut
176 Olive


My figures are from "oils, vinegars ans seasonings" Ridgway,
Mitchel Beazley.
They give avocado as 220, soya, corn at 210

"The author says the oils above[1] are all suitable for deep
frying. some of the specialised oils like the nut oils and
oriental sesame oils do not have such high smoke points...."

1] (corn,grape,ground,olive,rape,soya,sun)

Different sources, different figures, all I know is olive oil
works.

-- posting from alt.usage.english, where food is our forte


here too (food_drink.misc) :-)
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
UK walking "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email [email protected] this site
Spain,cuisines and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- [email protected] all, it's a spamtrap
  #52 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 02-10-2003, 06:31 PM
Javi
 
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Default Pukka mealtimes

The carbon unit using the name David Wilkinson in
gave utterance as follows:

On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 15:46:29 +0100, "Matti Lamprhey"
wrote:

My own research doesn't back up your figure of 210C for the smoking
point of olive oil (or the other ones you quoted, either).


If you look at

http://www.oliveoilsource.com/olivechemistry.htm

that gives a smoke point of 420F for virgin olive oil, which is around
215C.

So which is correct?



What a mess!!! I've found a broad range of temperatures for several oils,
not only olive oil (for this, usual range190-210ºC, but several give even
300ºC

http://www.planet-stuff.freeserve.co...emperature.htm

There are not two pages that give the same number for oils' boiling points.
The most scientifical opinion seems to be

/QUOTE ON/

http://van.hep.uiuc.edu/van/qa/secti...ergy/Boiling_E
vaporating_and_Condensing/20010430135040.htm

it's hard to measure the boiling point of oil. The reason is that well
before it reaches its boiling point, oil will start to smoke. This is called
the 'smoke point'. The smoke points for some common cooking oils are he

Safflower - 510 F (266 C)
Soybean - 495 F (257 C)
Corn - 475 F (246 C)
Peanut - 440 F (227 C)
Sesame - 420 F (216 C)
Olive - 375 F (191 C)
(from http://wywahoos.org/wahoos/cookbook/tools.htm)
The exact temperatures will also depend on how pure the oil is.

/QUOTE OFF/

Most Spanish webpages repeat that olive oil can be heated more than seed
oils (which, in absolute terms, I doubt now), but there may be an
explanation for this: oils are composed of several fatty acids, and the one
that is most unhealthly affected by heat is linolenic acid; olive oil has
the lowest amount of it (below 1.5 %):

/QUOTE ON/

Los aceites se descomponen con el calor.
Se trata quizá de la alteración más corriente que pueden sufrir estos
productos. El principal responsable es el ácido linolénico, razón por la
cual un aceite para freír deberá ser lo más bajo posible en dicho ácido. El
virgen de oliva tiene trazas (hasta un índice 1,2); el de soja, 7,5; el
girasol, 1,4, y el de cacahuete 1,5.

El ácido oleico, ácido monoinsaturado y mayoritario en el aceite de oliva,
es menos propenso a oxidarse que los ácidos poliinsaturados. Por lo tanto,
cuanto mayor es el contenido de ácido oleico, a igualdad de ácidos
saturados, menos oxidable es el aceite, como ocurre en el aceite de oliva en
comparación con los otros aceites vegetales.

/QUOTE OFF/

In Spain, olive oil sold must say which is its acid percentage; I had never
understood what acid it was, but now I know that it is "free fatty acids", I
believe that, mainly, linolenic acid; so, the lower its acidic grade, the
best for frying. Also, deep frying seems to happen at 170-180ºC, so any
vegetal oil can do.

--
Saludos cordiales

Javi

Conjunction of an irregular verb:

I am firm.
You are obstinate.
He is a pig-headed fool.



  #53 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 02-10-2003, 06:48 PM
Peter H.M. Brooks
 
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"Reid©" wrote in message
...
Following up to Peter H.M. Brooks


Presumably you are as shocked when you come accross cheese claiming to be
cheddar that doesn't come from Cheddar.


Not shocked, but it would be a nice thing if there was a sort of
appelation controllee system for such things, for instance, meat
not grown in the place it alleges to come from.

Why exactly do you support this protectionism?

Is it that you like the idea of third world farmers starving?

Or is it that you imagine that specifying the location also ensures the
quality?


--
"We pride ourselves on our peace and stability" - Zimbabwean President
Robert Mugabe

  #54 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 02-10-2003, 06:50 PM
Peter H.M. Brooks
 
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"Javi" wrote in message
...
The carbon unit using the name David Wilkinson in
gave utterance as follows:



It is common knowledge here in Spain that olive oil do not burn as easily

as
seed oils, but, really, I don't know. I'll try to find out and tell you

all.

Actually it depends rather on the sort of olive oil. Highly refined (pure
yellow) olive oil does have a high smoke point. Extra Virgin Olive Oil,
since it contains many 'ímpurities' has a much lower smoke point and is
quite unsuitable for deep frying.


--
Middle age is when you're sitting at home on a Saturday night and the
telephone rings and you hope that it isn't for you - 'It takes all sorts'
Milton Shulman

  #55 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 02-10-2003, 06:51 PM
Peter H.M. Brooks
 
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"mUs1Ka" wrote in message
...

"Peter H.M. Brooks" wrote in message
...

"mUs1Ka" wrote in message
...

I have always considered 8.00 for 8.30 to mean aperitifs served at

8.00,
dinner served at 8.30.
Is this not the case?

Yes, but that is time for a small sherry only, and then only if it is a

tiny
dinner party, eight people or fewer - any more and it takes longer even

for
sherry.

You must be a very slow drinker.

I may well be...

However the issue isn't the speed of drinking. It is the exponential
increase in the time conversations take as you increase the number of
people. It takes much longer to serve, chat to, and move through to the
dining room, ten people, than it does six - much, much longer.

Try it some day.


--
"The highest realms of thought
are impossible to reach
without first attaining
an understanding of compassion."

SOCRATES



  #56 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 02-10-2003, 07:05 PM
Reid©
 
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Default Pukka mealtimes

Following up to Javi

What a mess!!! I've found a broad range of temperatures for several oils,
not only olive oil (for this, usual range190-210ºC, but several give even
300ºC


Perhaps it is difficult to ascertain the smoke point and
different tests give different results?

I use 3 litre cans of "ordinary" Carbonell for cooking and frying
and extra virgin for dressings etc.
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
UK walking "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email [email protected] this site
Spain,cuisines and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- [email protected] all, it's a spamtrap
  #57 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 02-10-2003, 07:13 PM
Matti Lamprhey
 
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Default Pukka mealtimes

"Reid©" wrote...
Following up to Matti Lamprhey

My own research doesn't back up your figure of 210C for the smoking
point of olive oil (or the other ones you quoted, either). This
table from Holland & Barrett seems to accord with the info from
other sites (celsius converted from fahrenheit):

DegC Type
271 Avocado
240 Soya
232 Corn peanut, safflower, sunflower (refined)
210 Sesame
204 Rapeseed, walnut
176 Olive


My figures are from "oils, vinegars ans seasonings" Ridgway,
Mitchel Beazley.
They give avocado as 220, soya, corn at 210

"The author says the oils above[1] are all suitable for deep
frying. some of the specialised oils like the nut oils and
oriental sesame oils do not have such high smoke points...."

1] (corn,grape,ground,olive,rape,soya,sun)

Different sources, different figures, all I know is olive oil
works.

-- posting from alt.usage.english, where food is our forte


here too (food_drink.misc) :-)


I see Peter Brooks got here before me, but I was going to say that it
probably depends on the degree to which the olive oil has been processed
or refined; other oils show a wide range of smoke point from 160C to
232C depending on the degree of refinement. Consequently the extra
virgin olive oils that people now buy for the taste will be at the
bottom of this range; the processed ones which are now out of fashion
will probably have a 200C+ smoke point.

If you're saying that you deep-fry chips in extra virgin olive oil at
180C or so, this seems to go against most of the advice out there.

Matti


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Old 02-10-2003, 07:13 PM
mUs1Ka
 
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"Peter H.M. Brooks" wrote in message
...

"mUs1Ka" wrote in message
...

"Peter H.M. Brooks" wrote in message
...

"mUs1Ka" wrote in message
...

I have always considered 8.00 for 8.30 to mean aperitifs served at

8.00,
dinner served at 8.30.
Is this not the case?

Yes, but that is time for a small sherry only, and then only if it is

a
tiny
dinner party, eight people or fewer - any more and it takes longer

even
for
sherry.

You must be a very slow drinker.

I may well be...

However the issue isn't the speed of drinking. It is the exponential
increase in the time conversations take as you increase the number of
people. It takes much longer to serve, chat to, and move through to the
dining room, ten people, than it does six - much, much longer.

Try it some day.

Already have, not a problem. Conversations are in small groups. In my
experience, the exponential effect you described just doesn't take place.
Conversations continue en route to the dining room and thereafter. The
secret is to invite the right people.
m.


  #59 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 02-10-2003, 07:25 PM
Javi
 
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The carbon unit using the name Reid© in
gave utterance as follows:

Following up to Javi

What a mess!!! I've found a broad range of temperatures for several
oils, not only olive oil (for this, usual range190-210ºC, but
several give even 300ºC


Perhaps it is difficult to ascertain the smoke point and
different tests give different results?

I use 3 litre cans of "ordinary" Carbonell for cooking and frying
and extra virgin for dressings etc.


Same as me, though I use other brands. Extra virgin, expensive, is good for
dressings; refined, cheaper, seems quite good for deep frying. This is what
my mother taught me, and it seems that "common knowledge" in this case is
quite right.

--
Saludos cordiales

Javi

Conjunction of an irregular verb:

I am firm.
You are obstinate.
He is a pig-headed fool.



  #60 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 02-10-2003, 07:35 PM
Reid©
 
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Default Pukka mealtimes

Following up to Peter H.M. Brooks

Actually it depends rather on the sort of olive oil. Highly refined (pure
yellow) olive oil does have a high smoke point. Extra Virgin Olive Oil,
since it contains many 'ímpurities' has a much lower smoke point and is
quite unsuitable for deep frying.


the usual reason given for not using extra virgin for frying is
cost for no benefit.
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
UK walking "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email [email protected] this site
Spain,cuisines and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- [email protected] all, it's a spamtrap


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