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  #1 (permalink)   Report Post  
Peter H.M. Brooks
 
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Default Pukka mealtimes


"Simon Gardner" [dot]co[dot]uk> wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Peter H.M. Brooks" > wrote:
>
> > Lunch - Lunchtime (12h30)

>
> 12 noon in France 1pm in the UK and 2pm in Spain.
>

Depending on the time of year that's true - it is also about midnight in New
Zealand.

I suppose that the moral of the story is not to eat a Franch or Spanish
lunch in England. Contrariwise don't insist on lunchtime being 12h00 GMT
when you are visiting Auckland.

Mind you, I didn't specify that times were all to be in GMT, rather than
local time - I doubt it would work anyway.

In Spain, lunch starts at arount 13h30 and doesn't stop until 16h30 - if you
are with hard-working chaps who rush back to the office after a short lunch
break. So, if you are looking forward to your afternoon tea in Spain you do
have something of a problem - I suppose that, since they don't have supper
until about 22h30, you could fit in afternoon tea at about six.

On the other hand, if you mean that lunchtime is at those times in the
respective countries [a comma between France and 1 would have decided me on
that interpretation], then that seems a little late for the UK. Of course,
if you are off to the pub for lunch and want to be able to sit down then it
is wise to have your lunch a little earlier than everybody else, which might
be why I have always seen it as 12h30, or even 12h24 {to beat the 12h30
crowd}. The French probably need lunch by noon since the morning armagnac on
the way to work and the mid-morning beer will have worn off by then.


--
"Wherever tyranny has ruled, it has been with this insidious claim that the
status quo must not be questioned," - Bantu Holomisa

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MC_Emily
 
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Peter H.M. Brooks wrote:

>> (You didn't include TV dinner I see).


> I don't have plebvision so I shall never be in a position of having
> dinner anywhere near one.


Now, why I am not surprised by that?


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.521 / Virus Database: 319 - Release Date: 23/09/2003


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Peter H.M. Brooks
 
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"Reidİ" > wrote in message
...
> Following up to Peter H.M. Brooks
>
>
> >Which, of course, means that the value of going to university is vastly
> >reduced and they have to have silly subjects like 'X-studies' to give the
> >thickos something to do there.

>
> "Media studies", a friends son naively took it and now works in a
> call centre.
>

Exactly, though there is a whole tribe of non-academic utter wibble called
something-studies (women's I think was the one that started the rot).
>
>
> >I'd hope not! A well made curried sauce can go quite well with a baked
> >potato or, even better, as the filling of an omelette, though.

>
> curry omelette, never done that.
>

I'm delighted to have introduced the idea to you - they are really quite
superbe.

Make the omelette the normal way, with plenty of good cheese, garlic and a
hint of chillie (around three should do - though a teaspoon of West Indian
Hot Pepper Sauce can be a substitute) - note that this is not one of the
flat tasteless things sometimes claimed to be omelettes, but the pukka thing
[all ingredients whisked well with a fork, omelette pan {rounded, smooth
inside (never 'non-stick'), made from heavy cast iron} well oiled with extra
virgin olive oil heated to the smoke point, everything chucked in at once
then quickly folded over until all no longer runny so that a thick airy
delight is produced] - then, just as the omelette is browning slightly on
the bottom, put as much of yesterday's Chicken Madras, Lamb Bengalore Phal
meat or better over the whole omelette as it will hold, fold it over, wait
until almost black on the bottom then serve. If anybody claims to be hung
over after that they are either lying or still ****ed from the night before.


--
"Wherever tyranny has ruled, it has been with this insidious claim that the
status quo must not be questioned," - Bantu Holomisa

  #4 (permalink)   Report Post  
Peter H.M. Brooks
 
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"MC_Emily" > wrote in message
...
> Peter H.M. Brooks wrote:
>
> >> (You didn't include TV dinner I see).

>
> > I don't have plebvision so I shall never be in a position of having
> > dinner anywhere near one.

>
> Now, why I am not surprised by that?
>

Presumably because you know that no pukka people have plebvisions.


--
'They.. sucked the Tobacco smoak in greedily, swallow it down with the
Water. For which reason..generally at..the first Pipe in the Morning, they
fall down drunk and insensible.' - 1698 A. Brand 'Embark Muscovy to China'

  #5 (permalink)   Report Post  
Peter H.M. Brooks
 
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Default Pukka mealtimes


"Joanna Prescott" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 12:44:46 +0200, "Peter H.M. Brooks"
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >When is the pukka time to eat? My understanding is as follows, but I
> >will welcome any corrections or suggestions particularly those
> >with references.
> >
> >Chota Hazri - Five Thirty (05h30)
> >Breakfast - Seven (07h00)
> >Elevenses - Eleven (11h00)
> >Lunch - Lunchtime (12h30)
> >Afternoon Tea - Teatime (15h30)
> >Dinner - Seven (19h00)
> >Supper - Ten Thirty (22h30)
> >Midnight Snack - Midnight (24h00)
> >Midnight Feast - To Midnight (23h30 - 00h30)
> >
> >There are other snack times possible, but they don't have proper names.

>
> Tiffin covers a snack at any time the tummy feels the need.
>

Ah, thank you, Joanna, tiffin, yes, another important repast that I
overlooked! Tiffin is, properly, a light lunch - to be distinguished from
the normal one. So you could imagine a day where an inadequate brunch was
followed by a tiffin.
>
> Personally I don't find it pukka to be awake at 5.30 am. Unless one
> has not yet retired, or has a flight to catch.
> I'd also place lunch at 1 pm and afternoon tea at 4 pm. But this might
> differ in the colonies.
>

I think that the heat moves things out a bit at mid-day and the cool of the
evening moves them back a little. We have, maybe elsewhere, discussed the
wisdom of arranging a pub lunch to start at about 12:24, to ensure obtaining
a seat.
>
> You've omitted cocktails, which I'd place at 6.30 or 7 pm, moving
> dinner a little later.
>

Yes, this is what had me confused about dinner invitations being made for
8h00 for 8h30 - you only need a couple of sherries and dinner is very late
indeed. Far better for dinner invitations to specify 6h30 for 07h00 where it
is understood that the first hour or so involves Whisky Sours, Obtuse
Dinasour's, Champagne Cocktails, Soire de Gala's or, for the very, very
lucky, Brompton Cocktails. Much more civilised.
>
> In a suitable location there might be beach barbecue which could be at
> dawn - making use of the catch of the day, or could be in place of
> dinner and supper.
>

Dawn takes a bit of arranging - particularly if you aren't that keen on
05h30 starts! Afternoon beach barbecues are certainly a very good thing -
I'd recommend against holding them (as I did for several weeks) in a coconut
plantation, on the beach since, while sharks kill 10 people a year, 100
people a year are killed by falling coconuts.


--
Judges are known for making extreme antediluvian remarks from time to time,
their being dressed as Ark stevedores only encourages this anachronistic
playing to the gallery.- recommendations on judical attire



  #6 (permalink)   Report Post  
Larry Autry
 
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Default Pukka mealtimes

Just 5.5 cents from the states.

This of course is not quite your pukka, which is a fairly unknown term
here. When one reads the text below, one can see how terms regarding
meals can change over time.

When I was young, I knew the meals simply as breakfast, lunch and dinner
or, breakfast dinner and supper. I never knew why when the terms dinner
and supper were often substituted for lunch and dinner. There's
apparently a long history.

A nice write up is offered on this URL: http://tinyurl.com/pblh
AKA -- http://www.shasta.com/suesgoodco/new...aq/qsupper.htm

This is a "Civilian Reenactor's" web site. Referring to the civilian
contingent of reenactor's of the not so civil American Civil War.

----Larry Autry
=======================


Fannie is quoted here from the referenced site:
< a big snip >
[begin quote]
"Working class folks contented themselves with three main meals a day.
Breakfast, Supper & Dinner.

Breakfast was always the morning meal.

Dinner was the largest meal of the day and Supper was considered a
lighter meal (usually cold meats or leftovers). But here comes the area
where much confusion arises: Depending on the circumstance of the
diners, Dinner was eaten as the mid-day meal OR as the evening meal.
Supper & Dinner were interchangeable.

Here is the qualifier:
In households with a cook or servant, Dinner was usually the evening
meal, and was enjoyed at the end of the day. The householders considered
it the duty of the cook to keep the fires burning, the stove going, and
to prepare three hot meals a day. Supper, the lighter meal, was usually
eaten in the afternoon.

In households where the wife cooked, Dinner was often eaten in the middle
of the day, and Supper was the evening meal. The reason for this
practice was practicality.

It took alot of effort and skill to keep a fireplace or cook stove heated
with a nice, even heat for cooking. The housewife got the stove going to
prepare breakfast ,which was usually quite a substantial meal to keep the
menfolk working all day. Since the stove was already hot, she began to
cook dinner as soon as breakfast was done. (There were no instant foods,
and preparation usually included hours of slow cooking). This allowed
her to serve the big meal at mid-day, at which time she could let the
stove go out, escape the environs of the hot stove during the heat of the
day, and get some serious work done. She then served bread and cold
meats or leftovers for supper, any foods that did not need extensive
cooking.

This same practicality serves us at encampments. After breakfast is
done, we begin to cook dinner. The fire is already started, we have a
nice bed of coals, and it is much easier to keep this heat source going
than to start another fire in the afternoon. Dinner is served as the mid
day meal, and we escape having to work over the fire during the hottest
part of the day. We have our Supper later in the day, usually sandwiches
or cheese and fruit, which does not require cooking.

Also, this kept us hovering over our pots of food during public hours, as
they love to see us tending the fire and lifting the pot lids to examine
the delicacies cooking therein. (We are now so jaded on cooking that
after breakfast, we let the fire go out and have two suppers and no
dinner. Got lazy in our old age, I suppose)

The source for the above information is a good book which covers this
concept well:
The American Heritage Cookbook and Illustrated History of American Eating
& Drinking
by the Editors of American Heritage Magazine
Pub 1964 by the American Heritage Publishing Co, Inc."
[end quote]


--
Larry Autry
Manchester, MO USA
t
If you can spell Earth and net, you can email me.

  #7 (permalink)   Report Post  
Adrian Tupper
 
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Default Pukka mealtimes

"Peter H.M. Brooks" > wrote in
:

>
> "Javi" > wrote in message
> ...
>> The carbon unit using the name Peter H.M. Brooks > in
>> gave utterance as follows:
>>
>> > "Simon Gardner" [dot]co[dot]uk> wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >> In article >,
>> >> "Peter H.M. Brooks" > wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Lunch - Lunchtime (12h30)
>> >>
>> >> 12 noon in France 1pm in the UK and 2pm in Spain.

>>
>> [snip]
>>
>> > In Spain, lunch starts at arount 13h30 and doesn't stop until 16h30
>> > -

>>
>> Not usually so soon. Rather, at around 14:30-15h .
>>

> My memory is probably faulty - that means it must end at about 17h00,
> or later. When I was there the chaps I was working with were deeply
> annoyed by the Europeanisation, as they saw it, of Spanish culture
> that removed the traditional siesta from the daily routine. They
> considered a three and a half to four hour lunch break a pitiful
> substitute for a pukka siesta.


I would go for the siesta option any time.

>
> I rather like siestas myself, but recent research suggests that they
> are bad for the heart - the greatest danger to the heart is getting
> out of bed in the morning, particularly on Monday mornings (when most
> heart attacks happen) so, if you have a life where you get out of bed
> twice a day you are putting a lot more strain on the ticker.


Depends on how suddenly you make it happen probably.

--
Adrian
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Peter H.M. Brooks
 
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"Adrian Tupper" > wrote in message
...
> "Peter H.M. Brooks" > wrote in
> :
> > >>
> >> Not usually so soon. Rather, at around 14:30-15h .
> >>

> > My memory is probably faulty - that means it must end at about 17h00,
> > or later. When I was there the chaps I was working with were deeply
> > annoyed by the Europeanisation, as they saw it, of Spanish culture
> > that removed the traditional siesta from the daily routine. They
> > considered a three and a half to four hour lunch break a pitiful
> > substitute for a pukka siesta.

>
> I would go for the siesta option any time.
>

In warm climes it is the only thing that makes sense at that time of day -
even with air-conditioning.
>
> >
> > I rather like siestas myself, but recent research suggests that they
> > are bad for the heart - the greatest danger to the heart is getting
> > out of bed in the morning, particularly on Monday mornings (when most
> > heart attacks happen) so, if you have a life where you get out of bed
> > twice a day you are putting a lot more strain on the ticker.

>
> Depends on how suddenly you make it happen probably.
>

Maybe. The study showed that siestas tended to reduce life expectency. I
suppose that, if enough thought were put to the matter, with hydraulic beds
that gently lever you into a vertical position over the final ten minutes of
your kip this might be addressed that way. It seems that we haven't evolved
for long siestaring - it makes sense, even with the Aquatic Ape theory a
siestaring pre-hominoid would present a very easy snack for a crocodile or
shark [though sharks, strangely, don't seem to like the taste of people
much].


--
"The highest realms of thought
are impossible to reach
without first attaining
an understanding of compassion."

SOCRATES


  #9 (permalink)   Report Post  
Javi
 
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The carbon unit using the name Peter H.M. Brooks > in
gave utterance as follows:
>>

> Maybe. The study showed that siestas tended to reduce life
> expectency.


Do not believe everything you read. The fact is that life expectAncy in
Spain is among the highest in the world; I cannot remember exactly, but I'd
say that it ranks inmediatly below Japan for women and not far for men.

> I suppose that, if enough thought were put to the matter,
> with hydraulic beds that gently lever you into a vertical position
> over the final ten minutes of your kip this might be addressed that
> way. It seems that we haven't evolved for long siestaring


We? Who is "we"? We have a long tradition of siesting, and reaching eighty
something years old is not rare in my family. Maybe I'm of a different
species: homo siestans.

Now, seriously, sleeping for a long time (more than an hour) in the
afternoon seems to be not good, but a short siesta (around half an hour) is
a great thing.

--
Saludos cordiales

Javi

Conjunction of an irregular verb:

I am firm.
You are obstinate.
He is a pig-headed fool.



  #10 (permalink)   Report Post  
Adrian Tupper
 
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"Peter H.M. Brooks" > wrote in
:

>
> "Adrian Tupper" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Peter H.M. Brooks" > wrote in
>> :
>> > >>
>> >> Not usually so soon. Rather, at around 14:30-15h .
>> >>
>> > My memory is probably faulty - that means it must end at about
>> > 17h00, or later. When I was there the chaps I was working with were
>> > deeply annoyed by the Europeanisation, as they saw it, of Spanish
>> > culture that removed the traditional siesta from the daily routine.
>> > They considered a three and a half to four hour lunch break a
>> > pitiful substitute for a pukka siesta.

>>
>> I would go for the siesta option any time.
>>

> In warm climes it is the only thing that makes sense at that time of
> day - even with air-conditioning.
>>
>> >
>> > I rather like siestas myself, but recent research suggests that
>> > they are bad for the heart - the greatest danger to the heart is
>> > getting out of bed in the morning, particularly on Monday mornings
>> > (when most heart attacks happen) so, if you have a life where you
>> > get out of bed twice a day you are putting a lot more strain on the
>> > ticker.

>>
>> Depends on how suddenly you make it happen probably.
>>

> Maybe. The study showed that siestas tended to reduce life expectency.


How on earth can they measure that?

> I suppose that, if enough thought were put to the matter, with
> hydraulic beds that gently lever you into a vertical position over the
> final ten minutes of your kip this might be addressed that way.


No it's the difference between leaping out of bed when the alarm goes
off and pausing for a minute or two after waking up naturally.

> It
> seems that we haven't evolved for long siestaring - it makes sense,
> even with the Aquatic Ape theory a siestaring pre-hominoid would
> present a very easy snack for a crocodile or shark [though sharks,
> strangely, don't seem to like the taste of people much].


Back on topic at last!

--
Adrian


  #11 (permalink)   Report Post  
mUs1Ka
 
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"Peter H.M. Brooks" > wrote in message
...
>
> When is the pukka time to eat? My understanding is as follows, but I
> will welcome any corrections or suggestions particularly those
> with references.
>
> Chota Hazri - Five Thirty (05h30)
> Breakfast - Seven (07h00)
> Elevenses - Eleven (11h00)
> Lunch - Lunchtime (12h30)
> Afternoon Tea - Teatime (15h30)
> Dinner - Seven (19h00)
> Supper - Ten Thirty (22h30)
> Midnight Snack - Midnight (24h00)
> Midnight Feast - To Midnight (23h30 - 00h30)
>
> There are other snack times possible, but they don't have proper names.
>

High Tea? Definitely different from Afternoon Tea. 17.30 rings a bell
(possibly literally).
m.


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mUs1Ka
 
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"Peter H.M. Brooks" > wrote in message
...
>
> Yes, this is what had me confused about dinner invitations being made for
> 8h00 for 8h30 - you only need a couple of sherries and dinner is very late
> indeed. Far better for dinner invitations to specify 6h30 for 07h00 where

it
> is understood that the first hour or so involves Whisky Sours, Obtuse
> Dinasour's, Champagne Cocktails, Soire de Gala's or, for the very, very
> lucky, Brompton Cocktails. Much more civilised.
> >

I have always considered 8.00 for 8.30 to mean aperitifs served at 8.00,
dinner served at 8.30.
Is this not the case?
m.


  #13 (permalink)   Report Post  
Peter H.M. Brooks
 
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"Adrian Tupper" > wrote in message
...
> "Peter H.M. Brooks" > wrote in
> :
> > >>
> >> Depends on how suddenly you make it happen probably.
> >>

> > Maybe. The study showed that siestas tended to reduce life expectency.

>
> How on earth can they measure that?
>

You'd have to look up the studies. They examined people who did and didn't
have siestas and controlled for other variables.
>
> > I suppose that, if enough thought were put to the matter, with
> > hydraulic beds that gently lever you into a vertical position over the
> > final ten minutes of your kip this might be addressed that way.

>
> No it's the difference between leaping out of bed when the alarm goes
> off and pausing for a minute or two after waking up naturally.
>

I'm not certain of that, you might be right, but the heart might find the
standing up from lying down bit the problem. More research needed.
>
> > It
> > seems that we haven't evolved for long siestaring - it makes sense,
> > even with the Aquatic Ape theory a siestaring pre-hominoid would
> > present a very easy snack for a crocodile or shark [though sharks,
> > strangely, don't seem to like the taste of people much].

>
> Back on topic at last!
>

Sometimes it happens.


--
Only very sophisticated organisms like philosophers fail to be naive
realists! - David H.M. Brooks How to Solve the Hard Problem: A Predictable
Inexplicability 1999

  #14 (permalink)   Report Post  
Ian Northeast
 
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"Peter H.M. Brooks" wrote:
>
> "Reidİ" > wrote in message


> > curry omelette, never done that.
> >

> I'm delighted to have introduced the idea to you - they are really quite
> superbe.
>
> Make the omelette the normal way, with plenty of good cheese, garlic and a
> hint of chillie (around three should do


What is this new meaning of the word "hint" of which I have never heard?
I've never heard of putting chilli or garlic in an omelette at all.

> - though a teaspoon of West Indian
> Hot Pepper Sauce can be a substitute)


"Dave's Insanity" is an example what you are referring to presumably.
The stuff that makes Tabasco taste bland. Or possibly my Jamaican ex
colleague Sam's mother's home made stuff, which was kept reverentially
in a locked cupboard in our office in New Jersey and offered to
unsuspecting visitors (not that I ever saw anyone accept it, when the
lid was removed you could smell it on the other side of the office - not
an unpleasant smell, there was zero chance of this stuff's ever going
off - but enough to make you realise that you would be risking life and
limb by trying a teaspoonful).

> - note that this is not one of the
> flat tasteless things sometimes claimed to be omelettes, but the pukka thing
> [all ingredients whisked well with a fork, omelette pan {rounded, smooth
> inside (never 'non-stick'), made from heavy cast iron} well oiled with extra
> virgin olive oil heated to the smoke point, everything chucked in at once
> then quickly folded over until all no longer runny so that a thick airy
> delight is produced] - then, just as the omelette is browning slightly on
> the bottom, put as much of yesterday's Chicken Madras, Lamb Bengalore Phal
> meat or better over the whole omelette as it will hold, fold it over, wait
> until almost black on the bottom then serve. If anybody claims to be hung
> over after that they are either lying or still ****ed from the night before.


A rather strange combination of the delicate art of cooking an omelette
and death by chilli overdose IMO I'd use butter not olive oil too.
Olive oil burns at a rather low temperature.

I'll try this next time I have some left over curry and a hangover. Your
recipe has been duly printed off and parked at the side of my fridge.

How does it compare to whole teaspoonsful of neat mustard or wasabi?

PS did you know about the French aristocrat who got guilloutined because
of his ignorance of omelette making? He escaped the mayhem in Paris and
repaired to a country inn. He ordered an omelette and the innkeeper
asked how many eggs he wanted. He answered "12", so the innkeeper
realised that he must never have cooked one himself and so must be an
aristocrat and shopped him.

Regards, Ian
  #15 (permalink)   Report Post  
Robert Bannister
 
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Adrian Tupper wrote:
> No it's the difference between leaping out of bed when the alarm goes
> off and pausing for a minute or two after waking up naturally.


What a strange life style. I only have an alarm clock so that I can keep
my eyes closed till the last minute. I am always awake beforehand.
Perhaps, if I were to attempt getting up at an odd time (currently, I go
for 5.30 am), then your method might be appropriate, although I have
never had problems with waking at 2, 3 or 4 am when required. My body
clock tells me to wake up.

--
Rob Bannister



  #16 (permalink)   Report Post  
Robert Bannister
 
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Peter H.M. Brooks wrote:

> The post-pub curry is a late supper. If it is a very late opening pub then
> it might be a Midnight Feast.


Back in the 60s, I knew a curry shop in Bethnal Green that served very
hot and quite horrible curries till 2 am. This was more an
on-the-way-home snack.

--
Rob Bannister

  #17 (permalink)   Report Post  
Robert Bannister
 
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Reidİ wrote:
> Following up to Peter H.M. Brooks


>>I'd hope not! A well made curried sauce can go quite well with a baked
>>potato or, even better, as the filling of an omelette, though.

>
>
> curry omelette, never done that.


Nor me, but "tandoori" baguettes, rolls and pizzas are quite common here
in W Australia.

--
Rob Bannister

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Robert Bannister
 
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Ian Northeast wrote:

> A rather strange combination of the delicate art of cooking an omelette
> and death by chilli overdose IMO I'd use butter not olive oil too.
> Olive oil burns at a rather low temperature.


There are two sorts of omelette. There is the light, fluffy kind,
preferably made with just eggs and no filling - the best ones I've had
were in Belgium. Then there are omelettes with lots of filling: Spanish
omelette, Bauernfrühstück, etc., which are not cooked in the same way
and for which olive oil is perfect.

--
Rob Bannister

  #19 (permalink)   Report Post  
Robert Bannister
 
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Peter H.M. Brooks wrote:

> I think that the heat moves things out a bit at mid-day and the cool of the
> evening moves them back a little.


Not just weather - life style. In most of the famous Russian novels, the
aristocracy have breakfast (zavtrak) around noon, a meal whose name I
have forgotten in the early evening, dinner (obyed) towards midnight and
supper in the small hours of the morning.

--
Rob Bannister

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Frances Kemmish
 
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Robert Bannister wrote:
> Peter H.M. Brooks wrote:
>
>> I think that the heat moves things out a bit at mid-day and the cool
>> of the
>> evening moves them back a little.

>
>
> Not just weather - life style. In most of the famous Russian novels, the
> aristocracy have breakfast (zavtrak) around noon, a meal whose name I
> have forgotten in the early evening, dinner (obyed) towards midnight and
> supper in the small hours of the morning.
>


In "Buddenbrooks", by Thomas Mann, which I read in English, the family
always ate "first breakfast', and then another breakfast later in the
morning. I don't know what term was used in the original though.

Fran



  #21 (permalink)   Report Post  
mb
 
Posts: n/a
Default Pukka mealtimes

"Peter H.M. Brooks" > wrote
....
> > Depends on how suddenly you make it happen probably.
> >

> Maybe. The study showed that siestas tended to reduce life expectency. I
> suppose that, if enough thought were put to the matter, with hydraulic beds
> that gently lever you into a vertical position over the final ten minutes of
> your kip this might be addressed that way. It seems that we haven't evolved
> for long siestaring - it makes sense, even with the Aquatic Ape theory a
> siestaring pre-hominoid would present a very easy snack for a crocodile or
> shark [though sharks, strangely, don't seem to like the taste of people
> much].


Biological evolution is no more a deciding factor when discussing
civilized life. Siestaring is like language, one's got to be born into
the culture; late learning isn't very likely to be perfect. The study
wasn't at all designed and balanced for that. Missing the noon nap and
the late night life definitely shortens life if you're a born siester.
Watch for my obit.
  #22 (permalink)   Report Post  
Peter H.M. Brooks
 
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"mUs1Ka" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Peter H.M. Brooks" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > Yes, this is what had me confused about dinner invitations being made

for
> > 8h00 for 8h30 - you only need a couple of sherries and dinner is very

late
> > indeed. Far better for dinner invitations to specify 6h30 for 07h00

where
> it
> > is understood that the first hour or so involves Whisky Sours, Obtuse
> > Dinasour's, Champagne Cocktails, Soire de Gala's or, for the very, very
> > lucky, Brompton Cocktails. Much more civilised.
> > >

> I have always considered 8.00 for 8.30 to mean aperitifs served at 8.00,
> dinner served at 8.30.
> Is this not the case?
>

Yes, but that is time for a small sherry only, and then only if it is a tiny
dinner party, eight people or fewer - any more and it takes longer even for
sherry.


--
'They.. sucked the Tobacco smoak in greedily, swallow it down with the
Water. For which reason..generally at..the first Pipe in the Morning, they
fall down drunk and insensible.' - 1698 A. Brand 'Embark Muscovy to China'

  #23 (permalink)   Report Post  
Peter H.M. Brooks
 
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Default Pukka mealtimes


"Ian Northeast" > wrote in message
...
> "Peter H.M. Brooks" wrote:
> >
> > "Reidİ" > wrote in message

>
> > > curry omelette, never done that.
> > >

> > I'm delighted to have introduced the idea to you - they are really quite
> > superbe.
> >
> > Make the omelette the normal way, with plenty of good cheese, garlic and

a
> > hint of chillie (around three should do

>
> What is this new meaning of the word "hint" of which I have never heard?
> I've never heard of putting chilli or garlic in an omelette at all.
>

Aren't you lucky to have so much to learn and so much to experience!
>
> > - though a teaspoon of West Indian
> > Hot Pepper Sauce can be a substitute)

>
> "Dave's Insanity" is an example what you are referring to presumably.
> The stuff that makes Tabasco taste bland. Or possibly my Jamaican ex
> colleague Sam's mother's home made stuff, which was kept reverentially
> in a locked cupboard in our office in New Jersey and offered to
> unsuspecting visitors (not that I ever saw anyone accept it, when the
> lid was removed you could smell it on the other side of the office - not
> an unpleasant smell, there was zero chance of this stuff's ever going
> off - but enough to make you realise that you would be risking life and
> limb by trying a teaspoonful).
>

No, I wasn't meaning Dave's Insanity sauce - if you were using that then a
half a mustard spoonful would be quite enough! I was meaning Encona West
Indian Hot Pepper sauce.
>
> > - note that this is not one of the
> > flat tasteless things sometimes claimed to be omelettes, but the pukka

thing
> > [all ingredients whisked well with a fork, omelette pan {rounded, smooth
> > inside (never 'non-stick'), made from heavy cast iron} well oiled with

extra
> > virgin olive oil heated to the smoke point, everything chucked in at

once
> > then quickly folded over until all no longer runny so that a thick airy
> > delight is produced] - then, just as the omelette is browning slightly

on
> > the bottom, put as much of yesterday's Chicken Madras, Lamb Bengalore

Phal
> > meat or better over the whole omelette as it will hold, fold it over,

wait
> > until almost black on the bottom then serve. If anybody claims to be

hung
> > over after that they are either lying or still ****ed from the night

before.
>
> A rather strange combination of the delicate art of cooking an omelette
> and death by chilli overdose IMO I'd use butter not olive oil too.
> Olive oil burns at a rather low temperature.
>

Butter burns at a much lower one - unless you use ghee.
>
> I'll try this next time I have some left over curry and a hangover. Your
> recipe has been duly printed off and parked at the side of my fridge.
>
> How does it compare to whole teaspoonsful of neat mustard or wasabi?
>

No comparison.
>
> PS did you know about the French aristocrat who got guilloutined because
> of his ignorance of omelette making? He escaped the mayhem in Paris and
> repaired to a country inn. He ordered an omelette and the innkeeper
> asked how many eggs he wanted. He answered "12", so the innkeeper
> realised that he must never have cooked one himself and so must be an
> aristocrat and shopped him.
>

An excellent story! Would it were that ignorance of cookery were still
fatal - imagine how much better life would be after a few years.


--
"The highest realms of thought
are impossible to reach
without first attaining
an understanding of compassion."

SOCRATES

  #24 (permalink)   Report Post  
Peter H.M. Brooks
 
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"Robert Bannister" > wrote in message
...
> Ian Northeast wrote:
>
> > A rather strange combination of the delicate art of cooking an omelette
> > and death by chilli overdose IMO I'd use butter not olive oil too.
> > Olive oil burns at a rather low temperature.

>
> There are two sorts of omelette. There is the light, fluffy kind,
> preferably made with just eggs and no filling - the best ones I've had
> were in Belgium. Then there are omelettes with lots of filling: Spanish
> omelette, Bauernfrühstück, etc., which are not cooked in the same way
> and for which olive oil is perfect.
>

I am talking about the light fluffy kind - Spanish omelettes are very stodgy
compared to mine!


--
"Wherever tyranny has ruled, it has been with this insidious claim that the
status quo must not be questioned," - Bantu Holomisa

  #25 (permalink)   Report Post  
Peter H.M. Brooks
 
Posts: n/a
Default Pukka mealtimes


"Robert Bannister" > wrote in message
...
> Peter H.M. Brooks wrote:
>
> > The post-pub curry is a late supper. If it is a very late opening pub

then
> > it might be a Midnight Feast.

>
> Back in the 60s, I knew a curry shop in Bethnal Green that served very
> hot and quite horrible curries till 2 am. This was more an
> on-the-way-home snack.
>

In my youth there was a late night horror known as Twiggies Pie Cart. You
could order a number of exotic dishes to stimulate the palate you could
specify that 'hotters' were added. The pies were all at least a day old. If
you made the mistake of dining there (for, at that time of night everything
else was closed) you learned, early in life, quite what the combination of a
bad hangover and heart burn felt like.


--
"Wherever tyranny has ruled, it has been with this insidious claim that the
status quo must not be questioned," - Bantu Holomisa



  #26 (permalink)   Report Post  
Reidİ
 
Posts: n/a
Default Pukka mealtimes

Following up to Peter H.M. Brooks

>it makes sense, even with the Aquatic Ape theory a
>siestaring pre-hominoid would present a very easy snack for a crocodile or
>shark [though sharks, strangely, don't seem to like the taste of people
>much].


Churchill liked a siests, I don't know if he used a shark alarm
or not, though.
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
UK walking "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Spain,cuisines and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
  #27 (permalink)   Report Post  
Reidİ
 
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Default Pukka mealtimes

Following up to Robert Bannister

>> No it's the difference between leaping out of bed when the alarm goes
>> off and pausing for a minute or two after waking up naturally.

>
>What a strange life style. I only have an alarm clock so that I can keep
>my eyes closed till the last minute.


but there are many who are not like that.
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
UK walking "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Spain,cuisines and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
  #28 (permalink)   Report Post  
Reidİ
 
Posts: n/a
Default Pukka mealtimes

Following up to Robert Bannister

>There are two sorts of omelette. There is the light, fluffy kind,
>preferably made with just eggs and no filling - the best ones I've had
>were in Belgium. Then there are omelettes with lots of filling: Spanish
>omelette, Bauernfrühstück, etc., which are not cooked in the same way
>and for which olive oil is perfect.


I think its worth saying that the only similarity between a
spanish tortilla and a french omelette is egg. IMHO "filling"
isn't the right word for a tortilla, the potato being integral.

As you say olive oil is fine for both frying and deep frying. The
use of butter for a french omelette is presumably for the taste,
as its not a high temperature process, whereas the tortilla
requires raising the olive oil to smoke point.
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
UK walking "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Spain,cuisines and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
  #29 (permalink)   Report Post  
Reidİ
 
Posts: n/a
Default Pukka mealtimes

Following up to Peter H.M. Brooks

>> I have always considered 8.00 for 8.30 to mean aperitifs served at 8.00,
>> dinner served at 8.30.
>> Is this not the case?
>>

>Yes, but that is time for a small sherry only, and then only if it is a tiny
>dinner party, eight people or fewer - any more and it takes longer even for
>sherry.


In the real world outside ng's for most people 8 isn't a "tiny"
dinner party.

With the dry sherry in a cooler, place bottles and glasses on a
table and tell the guests to help themselves, there is usually
someone willing to do the job amongst the guests anyway. It gets
them taking to one another and helps to destroy any potential
atmosphere of formality.
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
UK walking "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Spain,cuisines and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
  #30 (permalink)   Report Post  
Peter H.M. Brooks
 
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Default Pukka mealtimes


"Reidİ" > wrote in message
...
> Following up to Peter H.M. Brooks
>
> >it makes sense, even with the Aquatic Ape theory a
> >siestaring pre-hominoid would present a very easy snack for a crocodile

or
> >shark [though sharks, strangely, don't seem to like the taste of people
> >much].

>
> Churchill liked a siests, I don't know if he used a shark alarm
> or not, though.
>

If you have champagne for breakfast then it isn't that much of a surprise
that a siesta is required later.


--
The story of the human race is war. Except for brief and precarious
interludes there has never been peace in the world; and long before history
began murderous strife was universal and unending." - Winston Churchill



  #31 (permalink)   Report Post  
Peter H.M. Brooks
 
Posts: n/a
Default Pukka mealtimes


"Reidİ" > wrote in message
...
> Following up to Peter H.M. Brooks
>
> >> I have always considered 8.00 for 8.30 to mean aperitifs served at

8.00,
> >> dinner served at 8.30.
> >> Is this not the case?
> >>

> >Yes, but that is time for a small sherry only, and then only if it is a

tiny
> >dinner party, eight people or fewer - any more and it takes longer even

for
> >sherry.

>
> In the real world outside ng's for most people 8 isn't a "tiny"
> dinner party.
>

You aren't suggesting that I'm living in an unreal world are you?
>
> With the dry sherry in a cooler, place bottles and glasses on a
> table and tell the guests to help themselves, there is usually
> someone willing to do the job amongst the guests anyway. It gets
> them taking to one another and helps to destroy any potential
> atmosphere of formality.
>

You can do that, but there's often some girlie who wants a medium sherry, so
you have to provide it and label it so that no normal person has to gag on
the dreadful stuff.


--
Men don't pay you to sleep with them. They pay you to go home - Philip Roth
'The Human Stain' pg 236

  #32 (permalink)   Report Post  
Matti Lamprhey
 
Posts: n/a
Default Pukka mealtimes

"Reidİ" > wrote...
> Following up to Robert Bannister
>
> >There are two sorts of omelette. There is the light, fluffy kind,
> >preferably made with just eggs and no filling - the best ones I've
> >had were in Belgium. Then there are omelettes with lots of filling:
> >Spanish omelette, Bauernfrühstück, etc., which are not cooked
> >in the same way and for which olive oil is perfect.

>
> I think its worth saying that the only similarity between a
> spanish tortilla and a french omelette is egg. IMHO "filling"
> isn't the right word for a tortilla, the potato being integral.
>
> As you say olive oil is fine for both frying and deep frying. The
> use of butter for a french omelette is presumably for the taste,
> as its not a high temperature process, whereas the tortilla
> requires raising the olive oil to smoke point.


Hmm. I don't think olive oil will stand up to the high temperatures
which are often associated with deep frying. I wouldn't use it for
chips, f'r instance.

Matti


  #33 (permalink)   Report Post  
Reidİ
 
Posts: n/a
Default Pukka mealtimes

Following up to Peter H.M. Brooks

>> In the real world outside ng's for most people 8 isn't a "tiny"
>> dinner party.
>>

>You aren't suggesting that I'm living in an unreal world are you?


this is an unreal world.

>> With the dry sherry in a cooler, place bottles and glasses on a
>> table and tell the guests to help themselves, there is usually
>> someone willing to do the job amongst the guests anyway. It gets
>> them taking to one another and helps to destroy any potential
>> atmosphere of formality.
>>

>You can do that, but there's often some girlie who wants a medium sherry, so
>you have to provide it and label it so that no normal person has to gag on
>the dreadful stuff.


or some boylie? Why not provide good sherry across the range? A
Palo Cordato would be nice, just avoid "cream" IMHO.
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
UK walking "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Spain,cuisines and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
  #34 (permalink)   Report Post  
Peter H.M. Brooks
 
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Default Pukka mealtimes


"Matti Lamprhey" > wrote in message
...
> "Reidİ" > wrote...
> > Following up to Robert Bannister
> >
> > >There are two sorts of omelette. There is the light, fluffy kind,
> > >preferably made with just eggs and no filling - the best ones I've
> > >had were in Belgium. Then there are omelettes with lots of filling:
> > >Spanish omelette, Bauernfrühstück, etc., which are not cooked
> > >in the same way and for which olive oil is perfect.

> >
> > I think its worth saying that the only similarity between a
> > spanish tortilla and a french omelette is egg. IMHO "filling"
> > isn't the right word for a tortilla, the potato being integral.
> >
> > As you say olive oil is fine for both frying and deep frying. The
> > use of butter for a french omelette is presumably for the taste,
> > as its not a high temperature process, whereas the tortilla
> > requires raising the olive oil to smoke point.

>
> Hmm. I don't think olive oil will stand up to the high temperatures
> which are often associated with deep frying. I wouldn't use it for
> chips, f'r instance.
>

You are quite right, it would be unwise to use it for chips. Omelettes are
not deep fried though! The smoke point of olive oil is much higher than the
burn point of butter so is better for omelettes.

Actually I simplified it rather. What I actually do is use a little olive
oil to get the pan heated to the smoke point, then I add the butter, just
before (or sometimes mixed into the omelette mixture) adding the omelette
mixture. The reason for doing this is that adding oil to butter increases
the burn point of butter, so a mix of 90% butter, 10% olive oil won't burn
at the smoke point of olive oil - pure butter will.


--
'They.. sucked the Tobacco smoak in greedily, swallow it down with the
Water. For which reason..generally at..the first Pipe in the Morning, they
fall down drunk and insensible.' - 1698 A. Brand 'Embark Muscovy to China'

  #35 (permalink)   Report Post  
Peter H.M. Brooks
 
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"Reidİ" > wrote in message
...
> Following up to Peter H.M. Brooks
>
> >> In the real world outside ng's for most people 8 isn't a "tiny"
> >> dinner party.
> >>

> >You aren't suggesting that I'm living in an unreal world are you?

>
> this is an unreal world.
>

What do you mean by 'unreal'? It seems pretty real to me.
>
> >> With the dry sherry in a cooler, place bottles and glasses on a
> >> table and tell the guests to help themselves, there is usually
> >> someone willing to do the job amongst the guests anyway. It gets
> >> them taking to one another and helps to destroy any potential
> >> atmosphere of formality.
> >>

> >You can do that, but there's often some girlie who wants a medium sherry,

so
> >you have to provide it and label it so that no normal person has to gag

on
> >the dreadful stuff.

>
> or some boylie? Why not provide good sherry across the range? A
> Palo Cordato would be nice, just avoid "cream" IMHO.
>

Tio Pepe is very nice, though these days, being in Cape Town, I usually have
South African sherries, which are very good indeed.


--
"Wherever tyranny has ruled, it has been with this insidious claim that the
status quo must not be questioned," - Bantu Holomisa



  #36 (permalink)   Report Post  
Reidİ
 
Posts: n/a
Default Pukka mealtimes

Following up to Matti Lamprhey

>Hmm. I don't think olive oil will stand up to the high temperatures
>which are often associated with deep frying. I wouldn't use it for
>chips, f'r instance.


Its smoke point is 210C Sunflower oil 200C Corn oil 210C.
Rapeseed and Grapeseed have slightly higher smokepoints but all
are OK for deep frying. You might of course like or dislike the
taste imparted, which is not typical for english chips.
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
UK walking "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Spain,cuisines and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
  #37 (permalink)   Report Post  
Javi
 
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Default Pukka mealtimes

The carbon unit using the name Peter H.M. Brooks > in
gave utterance as follows:

> "Matti Lamprhey" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Reidİ" > wrote...
>>> Following up to Robert Bannister
>>>
>>>> There are two sorts of omelette. There is the light, fluffy kind,
>>>> preferably made with just eggs and no filling - the best ones I've
>>>> had were in Belgium. Then there are omelettes with lots of filling:
>>>> Spanish omelette, Bauernfrühstück, etc., which are not cooked
>>>> in the same way and for which olive oil is perfect.
>>>
>>> I think its worth saying that the only similarity between a
>>> spanish tortilla and a french omelette is egg. IMHO "filling"
>>> isn't the right word for a tortilla, the potato being integral.
>>>
>>> As you say olive oil is fine for both frying and deep frying. The
>>> use of butter for a french omelette is presumably for the taste,
>>> as its not a high temperature process, whereas the tortilla
>>> requires raising the olive oil to smoke point.

>>
>> Hmm. I don't think olive oil will stand up to the high temperatures
>> which are often associated with deep frying. I wouldn't use it for
>> chips, f'r instance.
>>

> You are quite right, it would be unwise to use it for chips.


Then Spaniards are quite unwise: we believe that the best "frituras" (deep
fried stuff, usually chips or fish) are those made in olive oil.

> Omelettes are not deep fried though! The smoke point of olive oil is
> much higher than the burn point of butter so is better for omelettes.
>
> Actually I simplified it rather. What I actually do is use a little
> olive oil to get the pan heated to the smoke point, then I add the
> butter, just before (or sometimes mixed into the omelette mixture)
> adding the omelette mixture. The reason for doing this is that adding
> oil to butter increases the burn point of butter, so a mix of 90%
> butter, 10% olive oil won't burn at the smoke point of olive oil -
> pure butter will.


And do not forget, if you are the kind that consider these things, that
olive oil is much healthier than butter. I use olive oil, and when preparing
certain meals that originally are to be made with butter, I add a *little*
butter, just for the taste.

--
Saludos cordiales

Javi

Conjunction of an irregular verb:

I am firm.
You are obstinate.
He is a pig-headed fool.



  #38 (permalink)   Report Post  
Reidİ
 
Posts: n/a
Default Pukka mealtimes

Following up to Peter H.M. Brooks

>Tio Pepe is very nice, though these days, being in Cape Town, I usually have
>South African sherries, which are very good indeed.


Sherry comes from Jerez. South Africa should think up their own
designation for their fortified wines.
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
UK walking "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Spain,cuisines and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
  #39 (permalink)   Report Post  
Peter H.M. Brooks
 
Posts: n/a
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"Reidİ" > wrote in message
...
> Following up to Peter H.M. Brooks
>
> >Tio Pepe is very nice, though these days, being in Cape Town, I usually

have
> >South African sherries, which are very good indeed.

>
> Sherry comes from Jerez. South Africa should think up their own
> designation for their fortified wines.
>

Indeed. No doubt some day the Yanks will be forced to think up some
different name for the gnat's **** that they call 'Budweiser'.

Presumably you are as shocked when you come accross cheese claiming to be
cheddar that doesn't come from Cheddar.


--
Hark, wretches! how I mean to martyr you. This one hand yet is left to cut
your throats, Whilst that Lavinia 'tween her stumps doth hold the baisin
that receives your guilty blood. -Titus Andronicus (Hastivibrax)

  #40 (permalink)   Report Post  
Reidİ
 
Posts: n/a
Default Pukka mealtimes

Following up to Javi

>> You are quite right, it would be unwise to use it for chips.

>
>Then Spaniards are quite unwise: we believe that the best "frituras" (deep
>fried stuff, usually chips or fish) are those made in olive oil.


and the fried fish in Seville is possibly the best in the world.
"Kiosk de los flores" by the bridge to Trianna for example, where
they serve fried fish on paper without a stain of oil. try that
in a chippy!

My deep fat fryer is filled with olive oil.
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
UK walking "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Spain,cuisines and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
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