On Sat, 8 Dec 2018 15:46:42 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

>On 12/8/2018 12:51 PM, wrote:
>> On Sun, 09 Dec 2018 04:37:57 +1100, Bruce >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 8 Dec 2018 06:36:32 -0800 (PST), John Kuthe
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Friday, December 7, 2018 at 3:14:05 PM UTC-6, Sheldon wrote:
>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> The rudest servers I've encountered were in Naples and in Paris.
>>>>> The most sincere servers/people were in Jamaica.... I loved visiting
>>>>> Jamaica.
>>>>
>>>> Do you have ANY IDEA of the political history of Jamaica? U.S.
>>>>
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Jamaica
>>>>
>>>> Typical EUROPEAN CONQUERING WHITE SUPREMACIST COLONIAL TRADE TERRORISTS!!
>>>>
>>>> Typical a White Supremacist ******* ASSHOLE like YOU would like getting their ass kissed! :-(
>>>
>>> If it wasn't for white takeover, they'd all be starving in front of a
>>> hut made of cow shit.
>>>
>>> Who said that again?
>>
>> If it hadn't been for white people interfering, their lives would have
>> been far better. Those natives who killed the missionary recently
>> have really shown great intelligence
>>
>
>Just because they were happy for the past 2000 years, just think how
>much happier they would be having a white man tell them about Jesus.
>
>I hope the government just leaves his body there and does not mess up
>any more than what that idiot did. Tough on the parents they raised a
>fool.

He clearly had Jesus Complex. He kept walking into the arrows as if he
thought God would protect him.

Dave Smith wrote:

> On 2018-12-07 11:10 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> > On 12/7/2018 5:18 AM, Fruitiest of Fruitcakes wrote:
>
> > > I do realise that many restaurant customers can be nothing but a
> > > pain and make unreasonable demands on the staff. Some appear to
> > > be complaining on a regular basis merely in order to try and get
> > > free meals; but we are not all like that.
> > >
> > >
> > In the US, may places pay a meager wage and tipping is minimal.Â*
> > I'm talking about a coffee shop type place where you go to a
> > counter for service.Â* It is OK not to tip there but many will
> > leave the change.
>
> I have to wonder about tipping for counter service. It is not at all
> like table service. They aren't coming to take your order and
> delivering your food and beverages. When they put a tip jar out
> people feel that they should be tipping, but they would not expect
> to have to tip at a convenience store, the dry cleaners, the self
> service gas stations......
>
>
>
> > Sit down restaurants are all sub minimum wage for servers and
> > tipping is expected.Â* A tip of 15% to 20% is normal and expected
> > for decent service.Â* Staff can make a good living in the right
> > places.Â* To not tip at least a minimal amount for acceptable
> > service would be ignorant.Â* You should not go to a restaurant
> > knowing a tip is part of the server's wage.
>
>
> Where did this 20% thing happen? It used to be 15% for good service,
> and that does not include the tax. You are already paying a
> percentage with the tax and should not have to pay a tip on the tax
> as well. I have heard waiters suggest that 20% is more appropriate
> because prices have gone up. If prices are higher that same 15%
> translates to a bigger tip.
>
> FWIW.... there are minimum wages for servers here. It is lower for
> those serving alcohol, but it currently $12.20 /hr here.

A waitress may only make 1.25 an hour and be expected to 'make of the
rest in tips' which she then has to split with the cook and bus boy
(cook and busboy make over minimum wage already).

On 2018-12-08 5:06 PM, cshenk wrote:
> Fruitiest of Fruitcakes wrote:

>> I do realise that many restaurant customers can be nothing but a pain
>> and make unreasonable demands on the staff. Some appear to be
>> complaining on a regular basis merely in order to try and get free
>> meals; but we are not all like that.
>
> You should be more annoyed that most do NOT pay the waitress minimum
> wage.
>

They have to pay them minimum wage here, and the minimum for people
serving alcohol is $12.20 per hour.

On 2018-12-08 5:08 PM, cshenk wrote:
> Dave Smith wrote:
>

>> FWIW.... there are minimum wages for servers here. It is lower for
>> those serving alcohol, but it currently $12.20 /hr here.
>
> A waitress may only make 1.25 an hour and be expected to 'make of the
> rest in tips' which she then has to split with the cook and bus boy
> (cook and busboy make over minimum wage already).
>

I remain perplexed by the attitudes that I see being expressed here.
People feel obliged to leave a tip that is based on a percentage of the
cost of their meal and drinks, some claiming to tip 30% or more, but
reject the suggestion that the price of service being included in the
meal. They prefer to pay a percentage of their bill as a voluntary
gratuity to having a smaller amount added to the menu price.

Having eaten in places like Germany and the Netherlands, where
restaurant prices are a little higher than they are here, but include
tax and service, I like the idea of looking at the menu price and
knowing that we had two appetizers at $10, two entrees at $20, and a
bottle of wine for $30, then dessert and coffee for $10 each and the
bill is $110 than to have get see the menu prices 10% lower and then
getting a bill with taxes as (14% here) and then being expected to tip
$15 or more on top of that.

I think that you have to admit that there is a degree of sticker shock
when you get your bill and see the tax added and then being expected to
add 15% or more.

On Sat, 8 Dec 2018 17:47:24 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 2018-12-08 5:08 PM, cshenk wrote:
>> Dave Smith wrote:
>>
>
>>> FWIW.... there are minimum wages for servers here. It is lower for
>>> those serving alcohol, but it currently $12.20 /hr here.
>>
>> A waitress may only make 1.25 an hour and be expected to 'make of the
>> rest in tips' which she then has to split with the cook and bus boy
>> (cook and busboy make over minimum wage already).
>>
>
>I remain perplexed by the attitudes that I see being expressed here.
>People feel obliged to leave a tip that is based on a percentage of the
>cost of their meal and drinks, some claiming to tip 30% or more, but
>reject the suggestion that the price of service being included in the
>meal. They prefer to pay a percentage of their bill as a voluntary
>gratuity to having a smaller amount added to the menu price.
>
>Having eaten in places like Germany and the Netherlands, where
>restaurant prices are a little higher than they are here, but include
>tax and service, I like the idea of looking at the menu price and
>knowing that we had two appetizers at $10, two entrees at $20, and a
>bottle of wine for $30, then dessert and coffee for $10 each and the
>bill is $110 than to have get see the menu prices 10% lower and then
>getting a bill with taxes as (14% here) and then being expected to tip
>$15 or more on top of that.
>
>I think that you have to admit that there is a degree of sticker shock
>when you get your bill and see the tax added and then being expected to
>add 15% or more.
>
I don't like the tip added in style - no guarantee the servers really
get it, no encouragement for them to be pleasant. I like to decide
for myself how great the service was. I do a percentage because
that's the easier way to do it.

On Saturday, December 8, 2018 at 4:09:00 PM UTC-6, cshenk wrote:
>
> A waitress may only make 1.25 an hour and be expected to 'make of the
> rest in tips' which she then has to split with the cook and bus boy
> (cook and busboy make over minimum wage already).
>
Depends on the restaurant. Not all of them make the wait staff split their
tips. The ones that I know of only have to split with the other wait staff
and not everybody that works in the restaurant.

On Saturday, December 8, 2018 at 4:46:16 PM UTC-6, Dave Smith wrote:
>
> I remain perplexed by the attitudes that I see being expressed here.
> People feel obliged to leave a tip that is based on a percentage of the
> cost of their meal and drinks, some claiming to tip 30% or more, but
> reject the suggestion that the price of service being included in the
> meal. They prefer to pay a percentage of their bill as a voluntary
> gratuity to having a smaller amount added to the menu price.
>
I don't like the tip automatically to the bill. The waitstaff know they
will receive a tip whether they are an attentive waiter or one who dis-
appears after the food has been delivered.
>
> I think that you have to admit that there is a degree of sticker shock
> when you get your bill and see the tax added and then being expected to
> add 15% or more.
>
I do not tip based on the total price; I tip on the amount of the bill before
taxes are added.

On Saturday, December 8, 2018 at 4:54:17 PM UTC-6, wrote:
>
> I don't like the tip added in style - no guarantee the servers really
> get it, no encouragement for them to be pleasant. I like to decide
> for myself how great the service was. I do a percentage because
> that's the easier way to do it.
>
Me, too.

On 2018-12-08 5:53 PM, wrote:
> On Sat, 8 Dec 2018 17:47:24 -0500, Dave Smith

>> I think that you have to admit that there is a degree of sticker shock
>> when you get your bill and see the tax added and then being expected to
>> add 15% or more.
>>
> I don't like the tip added in style - no guarantee the servers really
> get it, no encouragement for them to be pleasant. I like to decide
> for myself how great the service was. I do a percentage because
> that's the easier way to do it.

There may not be a guarantee that they server would get, but you want to
be able to hold the purse strings like you would the strings of a puppet
to make sure they dance to your tune to get their tip. You want to be
able to withhold the tip and deny them a good wage if your server gets
stuck with a table of 15 that leads to the kitchen and wait staff having
to deal with their orders.

On 2018-12-08 6:12 PM, wrote:
> On Saturday, December 8, 2018 at 4:46:16 PM UTC-6, Dave Smith wrote:
>>
>> I remain perplexed by the attitudes that I see being expressed here.
>> People feel obliged to leave a tip that is based on a percentage of the
>> cost of their meal and drinks, some claiming to tip 30% or more, but
>> reject the suggestion that the price of service being included in the
>> meal. They prefer to pay a percentage of their bill as a voluntary
>> gratuity to having a smaller amount added to the menu price.
>>
> I don't like the tip automatically to the bill. The waitstaff know they
> will receive a tip whether they are an attentive waiter or one who dis-
> appears after the food has been delivered.

I have had excellent service in non tipping countries, and I did not at
all miss the tip soliciting behaviour.



>> I think that you have to admit that there is a degree of sticker shock
>> when you get your bill and see the tax added and then being expected to
>> add 15% or more.
>>
> I do not tip based on the total price; I tip on the amount of the bill before
> taxes are added.

Well, there is another one of those unwritten tipping rule questions.
Some people thing you should tip as a percentage on the total, tip
included. If you pay by debit here and opt for 15% it is on the total,
including the tax.

On 2018-12-08 2:03 p.m., Bruce wrote:
> On Sat, 8 Dec 2018 15:46:42 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
>> On 12/8/2018 12:51 PM, wrote:
>>> On Sun, 09 Dec 2018 04:37:57 +1100, Bruce >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 8 Dec 2018 06:36:32 -0800 (PST), John Kuthe
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Friday, December 7, 2018 at 3:14:05 PM UTC-6, Sheldon wrote:
>>>>> ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The rudest servers I've encountered were in Naples and in Paris.
>>>>>> The most sincere servers/people were in Jamaica.... I loved visiting
>>>>>> Jamaica.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you have ANY IDEA of the political history of Jamaica? U.S.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Jamaica
>>>>>
>>>>> Typical EUROPEAN CONQUERING WHITE SUPREMACIST COLONIAL TRADE TERRORISTS!!
>>>>>
>>>>> Typical a White Supremacist ******* ASSHOLE like YOU would like getting their ass kissed! :-(
>>>>
>>>> If it wasn't for white takeover, they'd all be starving in front of a
>>>> hut made of cow shit.
>>>>
>>>> Who said that again?
>>>
>>> If it hadn't been for white people interfering, their lives would have
>>> been far better. Those natives who killed the missionary recently
>>> have really shown great intelligence
>>>
>>
>> Just because they were happy for the past 2000 years, just think how
>> much happier they would be having a white man tell them about Jesus.
>>
>> I hope the government just leaves his body there and does not mess up
>> any more than what that idiot did. Tough on the parents they raised a
>> fool.
>
> He clearly had Jesus Complex. He kept walking into the arrows as if he
> thought God would protect him.
>
...and, of course, God is a delusion!

On 12/8/2018 5:34 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2018-12-08 5:06 PM, cshenk wrote:
>> Fruitiest of Fruitcakes wrote:
>
>>> I do realise that many restaurant customers can be nothing but a pain
>>> and make unreasonable demands on the staff. Some appear to be
>>> complaining on a regular basis merely in order to try and get free
>>> meals; but we are not all like that.
>>
>> You should be more annoyed that most do NOT pay the waitress minimum
>> wage.
>>
>
> They have to pay them minimum wage here, and the minimum for people
> serving alcohol is $12.20 per hour.

In the US it varies by State. In South Carolina an employer with
employees who earn tips only needs to pay them $2.13/hour. However, if
you don't earn at least $5.12 an hour in tips, your employer must pay
you the difference (up to the Federal minimum wage of $7.25/hour).

Tips are considered taxable income. Even if you happen to excel as a
server and make great tips, given a base pay of $2.13 it still likely
doesn't amount to much.

Jill

graham wrote:
> On 2018-12-08 2:03 p.m., Bruce wrote:
>> On Sat, 8 Dec 2018 15:46:42 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/8/2018 12:51 PM, wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 09 Dec 2018 04:37:57 +1100, Bruce >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 8 Dec 2018 06:36:32 -0800 (PST), John Kuthe
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Friday, December 7, 2018 at 3:14:05 PM UTC-6, Sheldon wrote:
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The rudest servers I've encountered were in Naples and in Paris.
>>>>>>> The most sincere servers/people were in Jamaica.... I loved visiting
>>>>>>> Jamaica.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do you have ANY IDEA of the political history of Jamaica? U.S.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Jamaica
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Typical EUROPEAN CONQUERING WHITE SUPREMACIST COLONIAL TRADE
>>>>>> TERRORISTS!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Typical a White Supremacist ******* ASSHOLE like YOU would like
>>>>>> getting their ass kissed! :-(
>>>>>
>>>>> If it wasn't for white takeover, they'd all be starving in front of a
>>>>> hut made of cow shit.
>>>>>
>>>>> Who said that again?
>>>>
>>>> If it hadn't been for white people interfering, their lives would have
>>>> been far better. Those natives who killed the missionary recently
>>>> have really shown great intelligence
>>>>
>>>
>>> Just because they were happy for the past 2000 years, just think how
>>> much happier they would be having a white man tell them about Jesus.
>>>
>>> I hope the government just leaves his body there and does not mess up
>>> any more than what that idiot did. Tough on the parents they raised a
>>> fool.
>>
>> He clearly had Jesus Complex. He kept walking into the arrows as if he
>> thought God would protect him.
>>
> ..and, of course, God is a delusion!

It may be a delusion to you, or to me. It is a very real thing to the
followers, and you can't get them off the jeasus brainwash.

My brother is in the southern baptist cult, and there is no way to
rescue him ... EVER. I wish I could.

On Sat, 8 Dec 2018 18:23:21 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 2018-12-08 5:53 PM, wrote:
>> On Sat, 8 Dec 2018 17:47:24 -0500, Dave Smith
>
>>> I think that you have to admit that there is a degree of sticker shock
>>> when you get your bill and see the tax added and then being expected to
>>> add 15% or more.
>>>
>> I don't like the tip added in style - no guarantee the servers really
>> get it, no encouragement for them to be pleasant. I like to decide
>> for myself how great the service was. I do a percentage because
>> that's the easier way to do it.
>
>There may not be a guarantee that they server would get, but you want to
>be able to hold the purse strings like you would the strings of a puppet
>to make sure they dance to your tune to get their tip. You want to be
>able to withhold the tip and deny them a good wage if your server gets
>stuck with a table of 15 that leads to the kitchen and wait staff having
>to deal with their orders.
>
Er no. I go for a meal and if the server is pleasant, does not
continually hover over me, but smiles and is just - nice - then I
leave a nice tip. If they are hung over, or sharp, or crash the
plates down in front of me, then I do not leave any tip.

On Sat, 8 Dec 2018 18:30:34 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 2018-12-08 6:12 PM, wrote:
>> On Saturday, December 8, 2018 at 4:46:16 PM UTC-6, Dave Smith wrote:
>>>
>>> I remain perplexed by the attitudes that I see being expressed here.
>>> People feel obliged to leave a tip that is based on a percentage of the
>>> cost of their meal and drinks, some claiming to tip 30% or more, but
>>> reject the suggestion that the price of service being included in the
>>> meal. They prefer to pay a percentage of their bill as a voluntary
>>> gratuity to having a smaller amount added to the menu price.
>>>
>> I don't like the tip automatically to the bill. The waitstaff know they
>> will receive a tip whether they are an attentive waiter or one who dis-
>> appears after the food has been delivered.
>
>I have had excellent service in non tipping countries, and I did not at
>all miss the tip soliciting behaviour.
>
>
>
>>> I think that you have to admit that there is a degree of sticker shock
>>> when you get your bill and see the tax added and then being expected to
>>> add 15% or more.
>>>
>> I do not tip based on the total price; I tip on the amount of the bill before
>> taxes are added.
>
>Well, there is another one of those unwritten tipping rule questions.
>Some people thing you should tip as a percentage on the total, tip
>included. If you pay by debit here and opt for 15% it is on the total,
>including the tax.
>
>
It isn't here, tip comes before tax.

On Sat, 8 Dec 2018 18:33:08 -0600, Hank Rogers >
wrote:

>graham wrote:
>> On 2018-12-08 2:03 p.m., Bruce wrote:
>>> On Sat, 8 Dec 2018 15:46:42 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 12/8/2018 12:51 PM, wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 09 Dec 2018 04:37:57 +1100, Bruce >
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, 8 Dec 2018 06:36:32 -0800 (PST), John Kuthe
>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Friday, December 7, 2018 at 3:14:05 PM UTC-6, Sheldon wrote:
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The rudest servers I've encountered were in Naples and in Paris.
>>>>>>>> The most sincere servers/people were in Jamaica.... I loved visiting
>>>>>>>> Jamaica.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Do you have ANY IDEA of the political history of Jamaica? U.S.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Jamaica
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Typical EUROPEAN CONQUERING WHITE SUPREMACIST COLONIAL TRADE
>>>>>>> TERRORISTS!!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Typical a White Supremacist ******* ASSHOLE like YOU would like
>>>>>>> getting their ass kissed! :-(
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If it wasn't for white takeover, they'd all be starving in front of a
>>>>>> hut made of cow shit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Who said that again?
>>>>>
>>>>> If it hadn't been for white people interfering, their lives would have
>>>>> been far better. Those natives who killed the missionary recently
>>>>> have really shown great intelligence
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Just because they were happy for the past 2000 years, just think how
>>>> much happier they would be having a white man tell them about Jesus.
>>>>
>>>> I hope the government just leaves his body there and does not mess up
>>>> any more than what that idiot did. Tough on the parents they raised a
>>>> fool.
>>>
>>> He clearly had Jesus Complex. He kept walking into the arrows as if he
>>> thought God would protect him.
>>>
>> ..and, of course, God is a delusion!
>
>It may be a delusion to you, or to me. It is a very real thing to the
>followers, and you can't get them off the jeasus brainwash.
>
>My brother is in the southern baptist cult, and there is no way to
>rescue him ... EVER. I wish I could.

Condolences, that's a bad one!

On Sat, 08 Dec 2018 21:51:45 -0400, wrote:

>On Sat, 8 Dec 2018 18:33:08 -0600, Hank Rogers >
>wrote:
>
>>graham wrote:
>>> On 2018-12-08 2:03 p.m., Bruce wrote:

>>>> He clearly had Jesus Complex. He kept walking into the arrows as if he
>>>> thought God would protect him.
>>>>
>>> ..and, of course, God is a delusion!
>>
>>It may be a delusion to you, or to me. It is a very real thing to the
>>followers, and you can't get them off the jeasus brainwash.
>>
>>My brother is in the southern baptist cult, and there is no way to
>>rescue him ... EVER. I wish I could.
>
>Condolences, that's a bad one!

So we have Sheldon who's been so traumatised by his brother that he'll
never come out of the closet. And we have Hank's brother, who was so
traumatised by Hank, that he'll hide in a religious cult for the rest
of his life. Thanks for sharing.

On 2018-12-08 8:47 p.m., wrote:
> On Sat, 8 Dec 2018 18:23:21 -0500, Dave Smith

>> There may not be a guarantee that they server would get, but you want to
>> be able to hold the purse strings like you would the strings of a puppet
>> to make sure they dance to your tune to get their tip. You want to be
>> able to withhold the tip and deny them a good wage if your server gets
>> stuck with a table of 15 that leads to the kitchen and wait staff having
>> to deal with their orders.
>>
> Er no. I go for a meal and if the server is pleasant, does not
> continually hover over me, but smiles and is just - nice - then I
> leave a nice tip. If they are hung over, or sharp, or crash the
> plates down in front of me, then I do not leave any tip.
>

Knowing that they are making minimum wage and expected to make it up it
tips, you stiff them on the tip if you is something displeases you about
the service?
This is an example of the sort of thing that makes me question the
tipping culture.

On Sat, 8 Dec 2018 21:02:28 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 2018-12-08 8:47 p.m., wrote:
>> On Sat, 8 Dec 2018 18:23:21 -0500, Dave Smith
>
>>> There may not be a guarantee that they server would get, but you want to
>>> be able to hold the purse strings like you would the strings of a puppet
>>> to make sure they dance to your tune to get their tip. You want to be
>>> able to withhold the tip and deny them a good wage if your server gets
>>> stuck with a table of 15 that leads to the kitchen and wait staff having
>>> to deal with their orders.
>>>
>> Er no. I go for a meal and if the server is pleasant, does not
>> continually hover over me, but smiles and is just - nice - then I
>> leave a nice tip. If they are hung over, or sharp, or crash the
>> plates down in front of me, then I do not leave any tip.
>>
>
>Knowing that they are making minimum wage and expected to make it up it
>tips, you stiff them on the tip if you is something displeases you about
>the service?
>This is an example of the sort of thing that makes me question the
>tipping culture.

It's interesting that Lucretia has the right-wing view he Underpay
them and only if they please people enough, will they make enough to
live off.

On 2018-12-08 8:48 p.m., wrote:
> On Sat, 8 Dec 2018 18:30:34 -0500, Dave Smith
>
>> Well, there is another one of those unwritten tipping rule questions.
>> Some people thing you should tip as a percentage on the total, tip
>> included. If you pay by debit here and opt for 15% it is on the total,
>> including the tax.
>>
>>
> It isn't here, tip comes before tax.
>
Really? And how do they do that? When you pay by debit machine they
enter the amount. They do not enter the food and drink total, let you
add the percentage tip and then add the tax.

Do you think maybe you were wrong about that?

On 12/8/2018 8:50 PM, wrote:
> On Sat, 8 Dec 2018 18:44:58 -0500, Nancy Young >
> wrote:
>
>> On 12/8/2018 5:04 PM, cshenk wrote:

>>> It's not exceptions, most go the other way. Well below minumum wage
>>> earned and not making it up in tips.
>>
>> If that's true, then they should go work somewhere for minimum wage.

> A lot of our servers are uni people, the hours fit their hours.

Of course, depending on where you live, but if they are routinely
making only a couple dollars an hour, they need to work at a busier
restaurant or something.

The places I go, the staff stays in place for years, if they leave
it's for a different restaurant. If it wasn't a living for them
they're certainly bright enough to go into something else, certainly
a minimum wwage job if that would be a step up.

nancy

On Saturday, December 8, 2018 at 8:02:28 PM UTC-6, Dave Smith wrote:
>
> Knowing that they are making minimum wage and expected to make it up it
> tips, you stiff them on the tip if you is something displeases you about
> the service?
> This is an example of the sort of thing that makes me question the
> tipping culture.
>
I stiffed a waitress on a tip once and not sorry I did. My friend and I
were seated, we got coffee, ordered then another couple that the waitress
knew well was seated. Was it a neighbor, relative, her preacher? I don't
know but she was at their table, constantly refilling coffee cups, food was
promptly brought out and we can't get her attention no matter what we did.
Couple is just about finished with their meal and our food arrives absolutely
stone cold. By the way, waitress had no other customers at that time.

Cashier wanted to know if everything was ok. I was polite but told her exact-ly what transpired and how disappointed we were with the service. Cashier
held our ticket aside to speak with the manager. Waitress is certainly not
going to be rewarded for such **** poor service by me.

On Saturday, December 8, 2018 at 7:40:35 AM UTC-10, Bruce wrote:
> On Sat, 8 Dec 2018 03:26:27 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
> > wrote:
>
> >On Friday, December 7, 2018 at 1:18:18 PM UTC-5, Bruce wrote:
> >
> >> Do I understand correctly that, for a Google Grouper, it's not as
> >> clear that there's a huge wall of text above this post?
> >
> >Maybe. I can see it and readily delete it on my desktop browser. If
> >dsi1 is using a mobile device, perhaps not. Although I think someone
> >else here uses google groups on a mobile device occasionally, and that
> >interface doesn't automatically quote at all, leaving us to wonder what
> >the heck the context was.
>
> On the one hand, GG seems to be made for the clueless user. But if you
> want to use it well, you actually have to think a bit more than with a
> normal news reader. See for instance the diarrhea posts of dsi1 and
> Greg Someting (GM).

Tis the season for anger and resentment. Oh wait, you heathens don't believe in peace and goodwill towards men or even good and evil - it's all just "things."

On Sat, 8 Dec 2018 23:23:55 -0800 (PST), dsi1 >
wrote:

>On Saturday, December 8, 2018 at 7:40:35 AM UTC-10, Bruce wrote:
>> On Sat, 8 Dec 2018 03:26:27 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >On Friday, December 7, 2018 at 1:18:18 PM UTC-5, Bruce wrote:
>> >
>> >> Do I understand correctly that, for a Google Grouper, it's not as
>> >> clear that there's a huge wall of text above this post?
>> >
>> >Maybe. I can see it and readily delete it on my desktop browser. If
>> >dsi1 is using a mobile device, perhaps not. Although I think someone
>> >else here uses google groups on a mobile device occasionally, and that
>> >interface doesn't automatically quote at all, leaving us to wonder what
>> >the heck the context was.
>>
>> On the one hand, GG seems to be made for the clueless user. But if you
>> want to use it well, you actually have to think a bit more than with a
>> normal news reader. See for instance the diarrhea posts of dsi1 and
>> Greg Someting (GM).
>
>Tis the season for anger and resentment. Oh wait, you heathens don't believe in peace and goodwill towards men or even good and evil - it's all just "things."

For someone who hates whites, you sure love their religion.

On Saturday, December 8, 2018 at 10:22:14 PM UTC-10, Bruce wrote:
>
> For someone who hates whites, you sure love their religion.

I love white people. I've been married to a white people for 40 years. OTOH, we don't care for people that try to steal stuff from us. I think that's pretty fair.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfAiB2ZoRhM

On Sun, 9 Dec 2018 01:59:30 -0800 (PST), dsi1 >
wrote:

>On Saturday, December 8, 2018 at 10:22:14 PM UTC-10, Bruce wrote:
>>
>> For someone who hates whites, you sure love their religion.
>
>I love white people. I've been married to a white people for 40 years. OTOH, we don't care for people that try to steal stuff from us. I think that's pretty fair.

I agree.

On Sat, 8 Dec 2018 21:32:40 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 2018-12-08 8:48 p.m., wrote:
>> On Sat, 8 Dec 2018 18:30:34 -0500, Dave Smith
>>
>>> Well, there is another one of those unwritten tipping rule questions.
>>> Some people thing you should tip as a percentage on the total, tip
>>> included. If you pay by debit here and opt for 15% it is on the total,
>>> including the tax.
>>>
>>>
>> It isn't here, tip comes before tax.
>>
>Really? And how do they do that? When you pay by debit machine they
>enter the amount. They do not enter the food and drink total, let you
>add the percentage tip and then add the tax.
>
>Do you think maybe you were wrong about that?

I will examine it carefully next time!

"dsi1" wrote in message
...

On Saturday, December 8, 2018 at 10:22:14 PM UTC-10, Bruce wrote:
>
> For someone who hates whites, you sure love their religion.

I love white people. I've been married to a white people for 40 years. OTOH,
we don't care for people that try to steal stuff from us. I think that's
pretty fair.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfAiB2ZoRhM

==

Wow!!!!

On Saturday, December 8, 2018 at 5:46:16 PM UTC-5, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2018-12-08 5:08 PM, cshenk wrote:
> > Dave Smith wrote:
> >
>
> >> FWIW.... there are minimum wages for servers here. It is lower for
> >> those serving alcohol, but it currently $12.20 /hr here.
> >
> > A waitress may only make 1.25 an hour and be expected to 'make of the
> > rest in tips' which she then has to split with the cook and bus boy
> > (cook and busboy make over minimum wage already).
> >
>
> I remain perplexed by the attitudes that I see being expressed here.
> People feel obliged to leave a tip that is based on a percentage of the
> cost of their meal and drinks, some claiming to tip 30% or more, but
> reject the suggestion that the price of service being included in the
> meal. They prefer to pay a percentage of their bill as a voluntary
> gratuity to having a smaller amount added to the menu price.

Sorry? I believe I'm the only person here who claims to tip 30% or
more. When have I ever said I was opposed to a decent wage for waitstaff?

However, many places that have tried that have rescinded it due to complaints
on the part of their employees, because it reduced their actual compensation.

Cindy Hamilton

On Saturday, December 8, 2018 at 6:12:20 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> On Saturday, December 8, 2018 at 4:46:16 PM UTC-6, Dave Smith wrote:
> >
> > I remain perplexed by the attitudes that I see being expressed here.
> > People feel obliged to leave a tip that is based on a percentage of the
> > cost of their meal and drinks, some claiming to tip 30% or more, but
> > reject the suggestion that the price of service being included in the
> > meal. They prefer to pay a percentage of their bill as a voluntary
> > gratuity to having a smaller amount added to the menu price.
> >
> I don't like the tip automatically to the bill. The waitstaff know they
> will receive a tip whether they are an attentive waiter or one who dis-
> appears after the food has been delivered.
> >
> > I think that you have to admit that there is a degree of sticker shock
> > when you get your bill and see the tax added and then being expected to
> > add 15% or more.
> >
> I do not tip based on the total price; I tip on the amount of the bill before
> taxes are added.

You really calculate it so finely? How much are the taxes in your jursidiction?
Here they are 6%, so the difference would be like tipping 15% versus 15.9%.

If your taxes are 12% it would be 15% versus 16.8%. If your taxes are 15%,
it would be 15% versus 17%.

On a $10.00 tab, the difference is between tipping $1.50 or $1.70. I would
just leave the change on the table and make it $2.00 anyway, so I wouldn't
have a bunch of silver rattling around in my pocket.

Cindy Hamilton

On Saturday, December 8, 2018 at 9:06:19 PM UTC-5, Bruce wrote:
> On Sat, 8 Dec 2018 21:02:28 -0500, Dave Smith
> > wrote:
>
> >On 2018-12-08 8:47 p.m., wrote:
> >> On Sat, 8 Dec 2018 18:23:21 -0500, Dave Smith
> >
> >>> There may not be a guarantee that they server would get, but you want to
> >>> be able to hold the purse strings like you would the strings of a puppet
> >>> to make sure they dance to your tune to get their tip. You want to be
> >>> able to withhold the tip and deny them a good wage if your server gets
> >>> stuck with a table of 15 that leads to the kitchen and wait staff having
> >>> to deal with their orders.
> >>>
> >> Er no. I go for a meal and if the server is pleasant, does not
> >> continually hover over me, but smiles and is just - nice - then I
> >> leave a nice tip. If they are hung over, or sharp, or crash the
> >> plates down in front of me, then I do not leave any tip.
> >>
> >
> >Knowing that they are making minimum wage and expected to make it up it
> >tips, you stiff them on the tip if you is something displeases you about
> >the service?
> >This is an example of the sort of thing that makes me question the
> >tipping culture.
>
> It's interesting that Lucretia has the right-wing view he Underpay
> them and only if they please people enough, will they make enough to
> live off.

Every job is like that. If I don't please my employer, I'm out of a job.

Cindy Hamilton

On Sun, 9 Dec 2018 04:22:57 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

>On Saturday, December 8, 2018 at 5:46:16 PM UTC-5, Dave Smith wrote:
>> On 2018-12-08 5:08 PM, cshenk wrote:
>> > Dave Smith wrote:
>> >
>>
>> >> FWIW.... there are minimum wages for servers here. It is lower for
>> >> those serving alcohol, but it currently $12.20 /hr here.
>> >
>> > A waitress may only make 1.25 an hour and be expected to 'make of the
>> > rest in tips' which she then has to split with the cook and bus boy
>> > (cook and busboy make over minimum wage already).
>> >
>>
>> I remain perplexed by the attitudes that I see being expressed here.
>> People feel obliged to leave a tip that is based on a percentage of the
>> cost of their meal and drinks, some claiming to tip 30% or more, but
>> reject the suggestion that the price of service being included in the
>> meal. They prefer to pay a percentage of their bill as a voluntary
>> gratuity to having a smaller amount added to the menu price.
>
>Sorry? I believe I'm the only person here who claims to tip 30% or
>more. When have I ever said I was opposed to a decent wage for waitstaff?
>
>However, many places that have tried that have rescinded it due to complaints
>on the part of their employees, because it reduced their actual compensation.
>
>Cindy Hamilton

Ditto - I feel I am making up for their low wages!

On Sun, 9 Dec 2018 04:37:41 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

>On Saturday, December 8, 2018 at 9:06:19 PM UTC-5, Bruce wrote:
>> On Sat, 8 Dec 2018 21:02:28 -0500, Dave Smith
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >On 2018-12-08 8:47 p.m., wrote:
>> >> On Sat, 8 Dec 2018 18:23:21 -0500, Dave Smith
>> >
>> >>> There may not be a guarantee that they server would get, but you want to
>> >>> be able to hold the purse strings like you would the strings of a puppet
>> >>> to make sure they dance to your tune to get their tip. You want to be
>> >>> able to withhold the tip and deny them a good wage if your server gets
>> >>> stuck with a table of 15 that leads to the kitchen and wait staff having
>> >>> to deal with their orders.
>> >>>
>> >> Er no. I go for a meal and if the server is pleasant, does not
>> >> continually hover over me, but smiles and is just - nice - then I
>> >> leave a nice tip. If they are hung over, or sharp, or crash the
>> >> plates down in front of me, then I do not leave any tip.
>> >>
>> >
>> >Knowing that they are making minimum wage and expected to make it up it
>> >tips, you stiff them on the tip if you is something displeases you about
>> >the service?
>> >This is an example of the sort of thing that makes me question the
>> >tipping culture.
>>
>> It's interesting that Lucretia has the right-wing view he Underpay
>> them and only if they please people enough, will they make enough to
>> live off.
>
>Every job is like that. If I don't please my employer, I'm out of a job.
>
>Cindy Hamilton

He tries to make it sound as if I want them to be ingratiating which
is far from true. At my local pub which is my lunchtime favourite
because of the excellent fish and chips and also the chowder, I pretty
much know all the girls now, it's not about me but them, how their
studies are going, whether they have exams coming in the next few
weeks etc. I see nothing wrong with friendliness and a big smile.

On 2018-12-09 12:23 a.m., dsi1 wrote:
> On Saturday, December 8, 2018 at 7:40:35 AM UTC-10, Bruce wrote:
>> On Sat, 8 Dec 2018 03:26:27 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> On Friday, December 7, 2018 at 1:18:18 PM UTC-5, Bruce wrote:
>>>
>>>> Do I understand correctly that, for a Google Grouper, it's not as
>>>> clear that there's a huge wall of text above this post?
>>>
>>> Maybe. I can see it and readily delete it on my desktop browser. If
>>> dsi1 is using a mobile device, perhaps not. Although I think someone
>>> else here uses google groups on a mobile device occasionally, and that
>>> interface doesn't automatically quote at all, leaving us to wonder what
>>> the heck the context was.
>>
>> On the one hand, GG seems to be made for the clueless user. But if you
>> want to use it well, you actually have to think a bit more than with a
>> normal news reader. See for instance the diarrhea posts of dsi1 and
>> Greg Someting (GM).
>
> Tis the season for anger and resentment. Oh wait, you heathens don't believe in peace and goodwill towards men or even good and evil

Preach that to the US televangelists (especially Franklin Graham)!!
There isn't a Christian among them!!!

On 12/8/2018 6:13 PM, wrote:
> On Saturday, December 8, 2018 at 4:54:17 PM UTC-6, wrote:
>>
>> I don't like the tip added in style - no guarantee the servers really
>> get it, no encouragement for them to be pleasant. I like to decide
>> for myself how great the service was. I do a percentage because
>> that's the easier way to do it.
>>
> Me, too.
>
I agree with you both.

Jill

On 2018-12-08 5:33 p.m., Hank Rogers wrote:
> graham wrote:

>>>>>
>>>>> If it hadn't been for white people interfering, their lives would have
>>>>> been far better.Â* Those natives who killed the missionary recently
>>>>> have really shown great intelligence
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Just because they were happy for the past 2000 years, just think how
>>>> much happier they would be having a white man tell them about Jesus.
>>>>
>>>> I hope the government just leaves his body there and does not mess up
>>>> any more than what that idiot did.Â* Tough on the parents they raised a
>>>> fool.
>>>
>>> He clearly had Jesus Complex. He kept walking into the arrows as if he
>>> thought God would protect him.
>>>
>> ..and, of course, God is a delusion!
>
> It may be a delusion to you, or to me. It is a very real thing to the
> followers, and you can't get them off the jeasus brainwash.
>
> My brother is in the southern baptist cult, and there is no way to
> rescue him ... EVER. I wish I could.
>
My B-I-L's brother became a JW. Could that be worse?

On 12/8/2018 5:08 PM, cshenk wrote:
> Dave Smith wrote:
>
>>
>> FWIW.... there are minimum wages for servers here. It is lower for
>> those serving alcohol, but it currently $12.20 /hr here.
>
> A waitress may only make 1.25 an hour and be expected to 'make of the
> rest in tips' which she then has to split with the cook and bus boy
> (cook and busboy make over minimum wage already).
>
Carol, FYI in Virginia the hourly wage for a waiter/waitress is $2.13.

Jill

On 12/8/2018 6:23 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2018-12-08 5:53 PM, wrote:
>> On Sat, 8 Dec 2018 17:47:24 -0500, Dave Smith
>
>>> I think that you have to admit that there is a degree of sticker shock
>>> when you get your bill and see the tax addedÂ* and then being expected to
>>> add 15% or more.
>>>
>> I don't like the tip added in style - no guarantee the servers really
>> get it, no encouragement for them to be pleasant.Â* I like to decide
>> for myself how great the service was.Â*Â* I do a percentage because
>> that's the easier way to do it.
>
> There may not be a guarantee that they server would get, but you want to
> be able to hold the purse strings like you would the strings of a puppet
> to make sure they dance to your tune to get their tip.Â* You want to be
> able to withhold the tip and deny them a good wage if your server gets
> stuck with a table of 15 that leads to the kitchen and wait staff having
> to deal with their orders.
>
>
I don't expect a server to perform miracles. I have eyes, I can tell
when a restaurant is busy and the server is in the weeds.

As for your example of a table of 15, IME if a party that large is
seated that will be the *only* party the server has to deal with.
Another server may help run food out to the large party but that's no
big deal. If there are tables left in their station other servers pick
them up until the large party is gone. (Also IME, good servers don't
have a problem picking up an extra table or two.) The kitchen has to
deal with getting the food out regardless of how many people are seated
together.

Jill

On 12/8/2018 9:02 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2018-12-08 8:47 p.m., wrote:
>> On Sat, 8 Dec 2018 18:23:21 -0500, Dave Smith
>
>>> There may not be a guarantee that they server would get, but you want to
>>> be able to hold the purse strings like you would the strings of a puppet
>>> to make sure they dance to your tune to get their tip.Â* You want to be
>>> able to withhold the tip and deny them a good wage if your server gets
>>> stuck with a table of 15 that leads to the kitchen and wait staff having
>>> to deal with their orders.
>>>
>> Er no.Â*Â* I go for a meal and if the server is pleasant, does not
>> continually hover over me, but smiles and is just - nice - then I
>> leave a nice tip.Â* If they are hung over, or sharp, or crash the
>> plates down in front of me,Â* then I do not leave any tip.
>>
>
> Knowing that they are making minimum wage and expected to make it up it
> tips, you stiff them on the tip if you is something displeases you about
> the service?
> This is an example of the sort of thing that makes me question the
> tipping culture.

You really don't get it, do you Dave? Servers know their wages depend
on tips. It behooves them to be pleasant. They don't have to become
your new best friend but if the're feeling grouchy they shouldn't take
it out on the customers. No, not even if the customer is being a PITA.
It's in the job description.

Note: The walk-in cooler is a great place to go and let out a scream or
unleash a few curse words when you're feeling particularly irritated.

Jill

graham wrote:

> On 2018-12-08 5:33 p.m., Hank Rogers wrote:
> > graham wrote:
>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If it hadn't been for white people interfering, their lives would have
> >>>>> been far better.Â* Those natives who killed the missionary recently
> >>>>> have really shown great intelligence
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Just because they were happy for the past 2000 years, just think how
> >>>> much happier they would be having a white man tell them about Jesus.
> >>>>
> >>>> I hope the government just leaves his body there and does not mess up
> >>>> any more than what that idiot did.Â* Tough on the parents they raised a
> >>>> fool.
> >>>
> >>> He clearly had Jesus Complex. He kept walking into the arrows as if he
> >>> thought God would protect him.
> >>>
> >> ..and, of course, God is a delusion!
> >
> > It may be a delusion to you, or to me. It is a very real thing to the
> > followers, and you can't get them off the jeasus brainwash.
> >
> > My brother is in the southern baptist cult, and there is no way to
> > rescue him ... EVER. I wish I could.
> >
> My B-I-L's brother became a JW. Could that be worse?


The House of Our Lord is welcoming to *all*, graham...even non - believers such as yourself...

--
Best
Greg