On Tue, 21 Jul 2015 08:04:04 -0700, gtr > wrote:

> Iran is a country populated by Persians.
To put that in perspective, this is similar to saying that the UK is a
country populated by the English. While the statement is true as far
as it goes, it's also incomplete.

--
Bob
Sidera errantia quibus procella tenebrarum in aeternum servata est
www.kanyak.com

On 2015-07-21 15:13:38 +0000, Opinicus said:

> On Tue, 21 Jul 2015 08:04:04 -0700, gtr > wrote:
>
>> I've concluded it's like a Brazilian calling themselves Cariocas or
>> something. Iran is a country populated by Persians.
>
> To put that in perspective, this is similar to saying that the UK is a
> country populated by the English. While the statement is true as far
> as it goes, it's also incomplete.

There may be an argument over the validity of the category of "ethnic
Persian", to distinguish the, say, from those ethnicities that
constitue Indians or Arabs (by whatever name), but I've never heard of
one, argued or otherwise, regarding the "Ethnic English". I wouldn't
be surprised though, as we have some Americans (as well as Entlish and
Swedish for instance) that are slicing and dicing the "white race" as a
political and racial category for their own needs.

Poking around in wikipedia I find that the topic of defining who is a
Persian and what constitutes that Persian-ness is far from fixed.

"Some scholars, classify the speakers of Persian language as a single
ethnic unit (the "Persians) and exclude those Iranians who speak
dialects of Persian, or other Iranian dialects closely related to
Persian; however this approach to ethnicity in Iran is erroneous, since
the designation Iranian (Irani) as an ethnic term has been used by all
these ethnic group in Iran, including the "Persians" irrespective of
their origin, language and religion."

I have no emotional investment in the issue, but feel comfortable with
my conclusion: Iranians call themselves and think of themselves as
Persians, without it being about how much or little they love or hate
this year's leaders.

On 7/21/2015 3:58 PM, gtr wrote:
> On 2015-07-21 15:13:38 +0000, Opinicus said:
>
>> On Tue, 21 Jul 2015 08:04:04 -0700, gtr > wrote:
>>
>>> I've concluded it's like a Brazilian calling themselves Cariocas or
>>> something. Iran is a country populated by Persians.
>>
>> To put that in perspective, this is similar to saying that the UK is a
>> country populated by the English. While the statement is true as far
>> as it goes, it's also incomplete.
>
> There may be an argument over the validity of the category of "ethnic
> Persian", to distinguish the, say, from those ethnicities that constitue
> Indians or Arabs (by whatever name), but I've never heard of one, argued
> or otherwise, regarding the "Ethnic English". I wouldn't be surprised
> though, as we have some Americans (as well as Entlish and Swedish for
> instance) that are slicing and dicing the "white race" as a political
> and racial category for their own needs.
>
> Poking around in wikipedia I find that the topic of defining who is a
> Persian and what constitutes that Persian-ness is far from fixed.
>
> "Some scholars, classify the speakers of Persian language as a single
> ethnic unit (the "Persians) and exclude those Iranians who speak
> dialects of Persian, or other Iranian dialects closely related to
> Persian; however this approach to ethnicity in Iran is erroneous, since
> the designation Iranian (Irani) as an ethnic term has been used by all
> these ethnic group in Iran, including the "Persians" irrespective of
> their origin, language and religion."
>
> I have no emotional investment in the issue, but feel comfortable with
> my conclusion: Iranians call themselves and think of themselves as
> Persians, without it being about how much or little they love or hate
> this year's leaders.
>
http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zor...sm/iranpersia/

The names Iran and Persia are often used interchangeably to mean the
same country. Iran is the legal name. Persia, was an ancient kingdom
within Iran. Iran came to be known as Persia in the West thanks to
classical Greek authors during whose time Persia was the dominant
kingdom in Iran. To call all of Iran 'Persia', would be like calling all
of Britain 'England'.

Evolution of the Name Iran

Iran is a relatively modern contraction of the name Airyana Vaeja (the
ancient homeland of the Airya or Aryans).

Over time, Airyana Vaeja became Airan-Vej, then Eran-Vej or Airan-Vej
(the Parthians and Sassanians had a slightly different pronunciation),
then Eran or Airan, and finally Iran.

Continued Western Use of the name Persia for Iran

The West, influenced as it was by Greek and Latin literature, continued
to call Eran 'Persia', presumably out of habit or because the rulers of
Iran were Persians. That Western tradition continued into the last
century until the reign of Iranian king, Reza Shah, founder of the
Pahlavi dynasty. In 1935 CE, Reza Shah asked those countries with whom
Iran had diplomatic relations, to stop using the name Persia and to
formally refer to his country as Iran. Some Euro-centric map-makers and
authors ignored this formal request and continued to use Persia as the
name instead of Iran.