In article >,
says...
>
> On 2015-07-19 9:29 PM, graham wrote:
>
> >> Some stores offer liberal return policies, others not so much. One
> >> factor is "fit for intended use" In many states there is no obligation
> >> to take back a product that is not defective.
> >>
> >> Returns cost us all money when abused. At home centers, people buy a
> >> tool, use it for a job, then return it.
> >
> > Sometimes to different stores and demand a refund!
>
> I was in a store a couple years ago where I guy was demanding a refund
> and had no receipt and there was no tag on it. Some of us had to wait
> in line for the duration of his argument. Then it turned out that the
> store did not even carry that product.

At one time a chain of DIY stores in UK had to post a notice to
legitimate customers, warning them not to drop their till receipt in the
car park. Crooks were collecting lost reciepts, then they'd shoplift
some item listed on it and "return" it with the receipt, for a cash
refund.

To prevent that scam, now most stores will only refund cash for
receipted cash purchases. If the receipt shows the original purchase was
by plastic, refunds are credited to the card or bank account.

Janet UK

On 2015-07-20 8:52 AM, Janet wrote:

> At one time a chain of DIY stores in UK had to post a notice to
> legitimate customers, warning them not to drop their till receipt in the
> car park. Crooks were collecting lost reciepts, then they'd shoplift
> some item listed on it and "return" it with the receipt, for a cash
> refund.
>
> To prevent that scam, now most stores will only refund cash for
> receipted cash purchases. If the receipt shows the original purchase was
> by plastic, refunds are credited to the card or bank account.

Around here, refunds have always been given in the same sort of
transaction as the sale. If you paid cash you get cash. If you paid by
debit or credit you get a credit to your account. They don't even give
cash for debit card refunds.

On Sunday, July 19, 2015 at 9:22:22 PM UTC-5, Dave Smith wrote:
>
> On 2015-07-19 20:20, wrote:
>
> >> Well, you have crap consumer laws over there if that's the case.
> >>
> >>
> > He's just rattling on. The very, very few stores here that
> > do not have a return/refund policy don't last long. They'd
> > certainly not get my business if that is their policy.
>
> Stores should stand behind the products they sell. If you buy a product
> that fails to deliver they should offer a replacement or a refund. If,
> OTOH, you want to return something because you don't really need it....
> that would depend on the product. You can't order 2 pounds of meat from
> your butcher and decide a day or two later that you don't need that much
> and expect a refund.
>
>
True, true.

It's rare I return something for a refund. The hassle of
driving back to the store, usually standing in line, explaining
why I'm returning it, etc.

A few weeks ago I bought a small wedge of Stella blue cheese
but mistakenly picked u the smoked version. Blech! I didn't
like it at all but did manage to get it down. A week or two
later I bought another wedge but made sure I did not pick up
the smoked version and told the cashier of my previous
mistake. She said I should have returned it for a refund.
It never entered my mind to take it back and it wasn't
worth the drive back to the store as it was MY mistake.

On 7/20/2015 10:19 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2015-07-20 8:52 AM, Janet wrote:
>
>> At one time a chain of DIY stores in UK had to post a notice to
>> legitimate customers, warning them not to drop their till receipt in the
>> car park. Crooks were collecting lost reciepts, then they'd shoplift
>> some item listed on it and "return" it with the receipt, for a cash
>> refund.
>>
>> To prevent that scam, now most stores will only refund cash for
>> receipted cash purchases. If the receipt shows the original purchase was
>> by plastic, refunds are credited to the card or bank account.
>
> Around here, refunds have always been given in the same sort of
> transaction as the sale. If you paid cash you get cash. If you paid by
> debit or credit you get a credit to your account. They don't even give
> cash for debit card refunds.
>

Lowes has a store card they will scan when you buy something. If you
must return it, they scan the item, scan your card, refund in seconds.
No receipt needed. Prevents the scams and simplifies returns.

On Mon, 20 Jul 2015 13:52:23 +0100, Janet > wrote:

> To prevent that scam, now most stores will only refund cash for
> receipted cash purchases. If the receipt shows the original purchase was
> by plastic, refunds are credited to the card or bank account.

I agree with that policy, in fact I'd rather have my account credited
than have cash in hand because I don't like seeing a charge on my card
at the end of the month for something I returned.

--

sf

On 7/19/2015 9:29 PM, graham wrote:
> On 19/07/2015 5:33 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>
>> Returns cost us all money when abused. At home centers, people buy a
>> tool, use it for a job, then return it.
>
> Sometimes to different stores and demand a refund!
> Graham
>
When I worked at JCPenney as a teenager a woman brought in a pair of
blue jeans for a refund. The jeans had a Sears label stitched inside.
They'd obviously been worn. She insisted she bought them from Penney's
and demanded to talk with a manager. The manager made me give her
(IIRC) $10 for them. Really? Sorry, but the customer is NOT always
right. The woman gave me a smug look, like see? Yes, I see... you and
the manager are both idiots.

Jill

On 2015-07-20, jmcquown > wrote:

> Yes, I see... you and the manager are both idiots.

....and of the three of you, yer the one that ends up rankled. You
need to let it go. If Penny's considered it a win, why should you
care?

nb

On Monday, July 20, 2015 at 2:36:19 PM UTC-6, jmcquown wrote:
> On 7/19/2015 9:29 PM, graham wrote:
> > On 19/07/2015 5:33 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >>
> >> Returns cost us all money when abused. At home centers, people buy a
> >> tool, use it for a job, then return it.
> >
> > Sometimes to different stores and demand a refund!
> > Graham
> >
> When I worked at JCPenney as a teenager a woman brought in a pair of
> blue jeans for a refund. The jeans had a Sears label stitched inside.
> They'd obviously been worn. She insisted she bought them from Penney's
> and demanded to talk with a manager. The manager made me give her
> (IIRC) $10 for them. Really? Sorry, but the customer is NOT always
> right. The woman gave me a smug look, like see? Yes, I see... you and
> the manager are both idiots.
>
> Jill

Your manager was an idiot. He just didn't want to confront the
complainer and tell her to stick it.
The customer is not always right and it takes guts to face them down.
When I was in store management I found that some customers were
bloody crooks and I never gave in to their ploys to rip us off.
===

On Monday, July 20, 2015 at 3:55:13 PM UTC-5, notbob wrote:
>
> On 2015-07-20, jmcquown > wrote:
>
> > Yes, I see... you and the manager are both idiots.
>
> ...and of the three of you, yer the one that ends up rankled. You
> need to let it go. If Penny's considered it a win, why should you
> care?
>
> nb
>
>
She was just giving an example of people returning items to
get cash back without a receipt. And in this case the customer
was not even in the correct store. I don't think she has a
problem with it, but you do because she posted her example.

On Sun, 19 Jul 2015 19:34:48 -0600, graham > wrote:

>On 19/07/2015 5:01 PM, wrote:
>> On Sun, 19 Jul 2015 16:59:20 -0600, graham > wrote:
>>
>>> On 19/07/2015 11:39 AM, wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, July 19, 2015 at 12:12:04 PM UTC-5, Dave Smith wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> It was my wife's birthday yesterday and she had wanted a party. She
>>>>> looked after the invitations and my son and I looked after the rest.
>>>>> Holy cow it is a lot of work to plan a party. One of the hardest things
>>>>> is to get people to RSVP so that you know how much food to prepare and
>>>>> how much wine, beer and soft drinks to buy. She sent out more than 70
>>>>> invitations. Thank goodness there were a lot of people who were going to
>>>>> be away, had other plans or otherwise could not make it. We had 36
>>>>> accept and replied and a family of five that let us know the night
>>>>> before that they were coming and a few that showed up.
>>>>>
>>>> It sounds like a very nice party and everybody apparently
>>>> had a great time and enjoyed the food and drink.
>>>>
>>>> Can you return the red wine and the other case of white
>>>> wine for a refund?
>>>>
>>> When you buy something, it's a contract unless there's a return for
>>> refund agreement.
>>
>> Well, you have crap consumer laws over there if that's the case.
>>
>Actually, that's pretty well universal! That receipt has the force of a
>contract. However, Sears' "Return if you are not satisfied for any
>reason" policy has resulted in consumers assuming that they have free reign!
>Small stores often won't refund but offer a credit note instead - but
>they needn't!

Yep, some stores use discretion, up to them if they want to do that.
In Australia, you don't even necessarily need to have your receipt
(according to Australian consumer law at least) and can return items
if they are not fit for purpose or faulty, of course.

On Mon, 20 Jul 2015 10:10:14 +0800, JBurns >
wrote:

>On Mon, 20 Jul 2015 09:01:05 +1000, Jeßus >
>wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 19 Jul 2015 16:59:20 -0600, graham > wrote:
>>
>>>On 19/07/2015 11:39 AM, wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, July 19, 2015 at 12:12:04 PM UTC-5, Dave Smith wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> It was my wife's birthday yesterday and she had wanted a party. She
>>>>> looked after the invitations and my son and I looked after the rest.
>>>>> Holy cow it is a lot of work to plan a party. One of the hardest things
>>>>> is to get people to RSVP so that you know how much food to prepare and
>>>>> how much wine, beer and soft drinks to buy. She sent out more than 70
>>>>> invitations. Thank goodness there were a lot of people who were going to
>>>>> be away, had other plans or otherwise could not make it. We had 36
>>>>> accept and replied and a family of five that let us know the night
>>>>> before that they were coming and a few that showed up.
>>>>>
>>>> It sounds like a very nice party and everybody apparently
>>>> had a great time and enjoyed the food and drink.
>>>>
>>>> Can you return the red wine and the other case of white
>>>> wine for a refund?
>>>>
>>>When you buy something, it's a contract unless there's a return for
>>>refund agreement.
>>
>>Well, you have crap consumer laws over there if that's the case.
>
>It is basically the same here. Retailers ony have to give refunds for
>faulty goods or by prior agreement (think Target, KMart etc where it
>is advertised policy). Most will offer exchanges for wrong sizes or
>choices and some even if you just change your mind, although they are
>not obligated to do so.

Actually, we have more rights than those you have mentioned. Changing
your mind isn't one of them, although many stores will do that (as you
say).

On Mon, 20 Jul 2015 16:36:13 -0400, jmcquown >
wrote:

> On 7/19/2015 9:29 PM, graham wrote:
> > On 19/07/2015 5:33 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >>
> >> Returns cost us all money when abused. At home centers, people buy a
> >> tool, use it for a job, then return it.
> >
> > Sometimes to different stores and demand a refund!
> > Graham
> >
> When I worked at JCPenney as a teenager a woman brought in a pair of
> blue jeans for a refund. The jeans had a Sears label stitched inside.
> They'd obviously been worn. She insisted she bought them from Penney's
> and demanded to talk with a manager. The manager made me give her
> (IIRC) $10 for them. Really? Sorry, but the customer is NOT always
> right. The woman gave me a smug look, like see? Yes, I see... you and
> the manager are both idiots.
>

I think a lot of stores had that policy back in those days. I know
Macy's did.


--

sf

On 7/20/2015 5:44 PM, wrote:
> On Monday, July 20, 2015 at 3:55:13 PM UTC-5, notbob wrote:
>>
>> On 2015-07-20, jmcquown > wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, I see... you and the manager are both idiots.
>>
>> ...and of the three of you, yer the one that ends up rankled. You
>> need to let it go. If Penny's considered it a win, why should you
>> care?
>>
>> nb
>>
>>
> She was just giving an example of people returning items to
> get cash back without a receipt. And in this case the customer
> was not even in the correct store. I don't think she has a
> problem with it, but you do because she posted her example.
>
It's just one of those things I clearly remember because I think the
woman was taking advantage of the "customer is always right" mentality.
I was only 18 years old but even I knew it was wrong to give that
woman a refund.

Jill

On 7/20/2015 7:19 PM, sf wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Jul 2015 16:36:13 -0400, jmcquown >
> wrote:
>
>> On 7/19/2015 9:29 PM, graham wrote:
>>> On 19/07/2015 5:33 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Returns cost us all money when abused. At home centers, people buy a
>>>> tool, use it for a job, then return it.
>>>
>>> Sometimes to different stores and demand a refund!
>>> Graham
>>>
>> When I worked at JCPenney as a teenager a woman brought in a pair of
>> blue jeans for a refund. The jeans had a Sears label stitched inside.
>> They'd obviously been worn. She insisted she bought them from Penney's
>> and demanded to talk with a manager. The manager made me give her
>> (IIRC) $10 for them. Really? Sorry, but the customer is NOT always
>> right. The woman gave me a smug look, like see? Yes, I see... you and
>> the manager are both idiots.
>>
>
> I think a lot of stores had that policy back in those days. I know
> Macy's did.
>
>
The silly thing is, all she had to do was walk down to Sears and they'd
likely have given her a refund.

Jill

On 7/20/2015 4:55 PM, notbob wrote:
> On 2015-07-20, jmcquown > wrote:
>
>> Yes, I see... you and the manager are both idiots.
>
> ...and of the three of you, yer the one that ends up rankled. You
> need to let it go. If Penny's considered it a win, why should you
> care?
>
> nb
>

Stunts like that keep prices up for all of us. That is $10 less profit
the store made because of a scam.

On 7/20/2015 10:14 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 7/20/2015 4:55 PM, notbob wrote:
>> On 2015-07-20, jmcquown > wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, I see... you and the manager are both idiots.
>>
>> ...and of the three of you, yer the one that ends up rankled. You
>> need to let it go. If Penny's considered it a win, why should you
>> care?
>>
>> nb
>>
>
> Stunts like that keep prices up for all of us. That is $10 less profit
> the store made because of a scam.

Exactly, Ed. It wasn't a "win" for anyone except for the woman who
walked away with $10.

Jill

On Mon, 20 Jul 2015 22:30:40 -0400, jmcquown >
wrote:

> On 7/20/2015 10:14 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> > On 7/20/2015 4:55 PM, notbob wrote:
> >> On 2015-07-20, jmcquown > wrote:
> >>
> >>> Yes, I see... you and the manager are both idiots.
> >>
> >> ...and of the three of you, yer the one that ends up rankled. You
> >> need to let it go. If Penny's considered it a win, why should you
> >> care?
> >>
> >> nb
> >>
> >
> > Stunts like that keep prices up for all of us. That is $10 less profit
> > the store made because of a scam.
>
> Exactly, Ed. It wasn't a "win" for anyone except for the woman who
> walked away with $10.
>
> Jill
The question is: Do they do it today? If not, then the Ivy League
Eggheads who issued those decrees from On High finally figured out how
to conduct basic business in the real world.

--

sf

"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...
> On 7/20/2015 7:19 PM, sf wrote:
>> On Mon, 20 Jul 2015 16:36:13 -0400, jmcquown >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 7/19/2015 9:29 PM, graham wrote:
>>>> On 19/07/2015 5:33 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Returns cost us all money when abused. At home centers, people buy a
>>>>> tool, use it for a job, then return it.
>>>>
>>>> Sometimes to different stores and demand a refund!
>>>> Graham
>>>>
>>> When I worked at JCPenney as a teenager a woman brought in a pair of
>>> blue jeans for a refund. The jeans had a Sears label stitched inside.
>>> They'd obviously been worn. She insisted she bought them from Penney's
>>> and demanded to talk with a manager. The manager made me give her
>>> (IIRC) $10 for them. Really? Sorry, but the customer is NOT always
>>> right. The woman gave me a smug look, like see? Yes, I see... you and
>>> the manager are both idiots.
>>>
>>
>> I think a lot of stores had that policy back in those days. I know
>> Macy's did.
>>
>>
> The silly thing is, all she had to do was walk down to Sears and they'd
> likely have given her a refund.

Why would she care? She got her money back.

On 7/21/2015 6:42 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
>
> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 7/20/2015 7:19 PM, sf wrote:
>>> On Mon, 20 Jul 2015 16:36:13 -0400, jmcquown >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 7/19/2015 9:29 PM, graham wrote:
>>>>> On 19/07/2015 5:33 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Returns cost us all money when abused. At home centers, people buy a
>>>>>> tool, use it for a job, then return it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sometimes to different stores and demand a refund!
>>>>> Graham
>>>>>
>>>> When I worked at JCPenney as a teenager a woman brought in a pair of
>>>> blue jeans for a refund. The jeans had a Sears label stitched inside.
>>>> They'd obviously been worn. She insisted she bought them from Penney's
>>>> and demanded to talk with a manager. The manager made me give her
>>>> (IIRC) $10 for them. Really? Sorry, but the customer is NOT always
>>>> right. The woman gave me a smug look, like see? Yes, I see... you and
>>>> the manager are both idiots.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I think a lot of stores had that policy back in those days. I know
>>> Macy's did.
>>>
>>>
>> The silly thing is, all she had to do was walk down to Sears and
>> they'd likely have given her a refund.
>
> Why would she care? She got her money back.

She got "some" money back. Even in the 70's a pair of blue jeans cost
more than $10.

Jill

jmcquown wrote:
> On 7/21/2015 6:42 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>
>> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On 7/20/2015 7:19 PM, sf wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 20 Jul 2015 16:36:13 -0400, jmcquown >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 7/19/2015 9:29 PM, graham wrote:
>>>>>> On 19/07/2015 5:33 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Returns cost us all money when abused. At home centers, people
>>>>>>> buy a
>>>>>>> tool, use it for a job, then return it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sometimes to different stores and demand a refund!
>>>>>> Graham
>>>>>>
>>>>> When I worked at JCPenney as a teenager a woman brought in a pair of
>>>>> blue jeans for a refund. The jeans had a Sears label stitched
>>>>> inside.
>>>>> They'd obviously been worn. She insisted she bought them from
>>>>> Penney's
>>>>> and demanded to talk with a manager. The manager made me give her
>>>>> (IIRC) $10 for them. Really? Sorry, but the customer is NOT always
>>>>> right. The woman gave me a smug look, like see? Yes, I see...
>>>>> you and
>>>>> the manager are both idiots.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think a lot of stores had that policy back in those days. I know
>>>> Macy's did.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> The silly thing is, all she had to do was walk down to Sears and
>>> they'd likely have given her a refund.
>>
>> Why would she care? She got her money back.
>
> She got "some" money back. Even in the 70's a pair of blue jeans cost
> more than $10.
>
> Jill
>

They might have been stolen.

On 7/21/2015 7:49 PM, Alex wrote:
> jmcquown wrote:
>> On 7/21/2015 6:42 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>>
>>> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> On 7/20/2015 7:19 PM, sf wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 20 Jul 2015 16:36:13 -0400, jmcquown >
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 7/19/2015 9:29 PM, graham wrote:
>>>>>>> On 19/07/2015 5:33 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Returns cost us all money when abused. At home centers, people
>>>>>>>> buy a
>>>>>>>> tool, use it for a job, then return it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sometimes to different stores and demand a refund!
>>>>>>> Graham
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> When I worked at JCPenney as a teenager a woman brought in a pair of
>>>>>> blue jeans for a refund. The jeans had a Sears label stitched
>>>>>> inside.
>>>>>> They'd obviously been worn. She insisted she bought them from
>>>>>> Penney's
>>>>>> and demanded to talk with a manager. The manager made me give her
>>>>>> (IIRC) $10 for them. Really? Sorry, but the customer is NOT always
>>>>>> right. The woman gave me a smug look, like see? Yes, I see...
>>>>>> you and
>>>>>> the manager are both idiots.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I think a lot of stores had that policy back in those days. I know
>>>>> Macy's did.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> The silly thing is, all she had to do was walk down to Sears and
>>>> they'd likely have given her a refund.
>>>
>>> Why would she care? She got her money back.
>>
>> She got "some" money back. Even in the 70's a pair of blue jeans cost
>> more than $10.
>>
>> Jill
>>
>
> They might have been stolen.

Likely. Doesn't justify the manager giving her $10 for an item
obviously returned to the wrong store.

Jill

On 2015-07-21 8:57 PM, jmcquown wrote:

>> They might have been stolen.
>
> Likely. Doesn't justify the manager giving her $10 for an item
> obviously returned to the wrong store.
>


A smarter manager would have told her to take a hike. What is she going
to do? ....Take her business elsewhere? It costs money to have her come
to the store.