I'm trying my hand for the first time making bone broth. I selected two
very large beef bone and left those in a crock pot for about 48 hours.
After cooling the fat comes to the top and I'm left with a liquid broth.
My questions a

1) I read in several recipes that the broth should have a gelatin texture.
Mine is liquid. What would that indicate about my broth? Am I using too
little bone, and is the gelatin coming out of the bone?

2) The broth itself has many microscopic particles in it. I assume that is
pieces of meat and fat and is okay?

--
W

On Sat, 20 Jul 2013 11:22:11 -0700, "W" >
wrote:

>I'm trying my hand for the first time making bone broth. I selected two
>very large beef bone and left those in a crock pot for about 48 hours.
>After cooling the fat comes to the top and I'm left with a liquid broth.
>My questions a
>
>1) I read in several recipes that the broth should have a gelatin texture.
>Mine is liquid. What would that indicate about my broth? Am I using too
>little bone, and is the gelatin coming out of the bone?
>
>2) The broth itself has many microscopic particles in it. I assume that is
>pieces of meat and fat and is okay?

Refrigeratre it, it should gel.

John Kuthe...

"John Kuthe" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 20 Jul 2013 11:22:11 -0700, "W" >
> wrote:
>
> >I'm trying my hand for the first time making bone broth. I selected two
> >very large beef bone and left those in a crock pot for about 48 hours.
> >After cooling the fat comes to the top and I'm left with a liquid broth.
> >My questions a
> >
> >1) I read in several recipes that the broth should have a gelatin
texture.
> >Mine is liquid. What would that indicate about my broth? Am I using
too
> >little bone, and is the gelatin coming out of the bone?
> >
> >2) The broth itself has many microscopic particles in it. I assume that
is
> >pieces of meat and fat and is okay?
>
> Refrigeratre it, it should gel.

I did but it stays liquid. This is after removing the hard layer of frozen
fat from the surface.

--
W

On Sat, 20 Jul 2013 18:00:36 -0700, "W" >
wrote:

>"John Kuthe" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Sat, 20 Jul 2013 11:22:11 -0700, "W" >
>> wrote:
>>
>> >I'm trying my hand for the first time making bone broth. I selected two
>> >very large beef bone and left those in a crock pot for about 48 hours.
>> >After cooling the fat comes to the top and I'm left with a liquid broth.
>> >My questions a
>> >
>> >1) I read in several recipes that the broth should have a gelatin
>texture.
>> >Mine is liquid. What would that indicate about my broth? Am I using
>too
>> >little bone, and is the gelatin coming out of the bone?
>> >
>> >2) The broth itself has many microscopic particles in it. I assume that
>is
>> >pieces of meat and fat and is okay?
>>
>> Refrigeratre it, it should gel.
>
>I did but it stays liquid. This is after removing the hard layer of frozen
>fat from the surface.

It's not reduced enough to gel.

How's it taste?

John Kuthe...

W wrote:
>
> "John Kuthe" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Sat, 20 Jul 2013 11:22:11 -0700, "W" >
> > wrote:
> >
> > >I'm trying my hand for the first time making bone broth. I selected two
> > >very large beef bone and left those in a crock pot for about 48 hours.
> > >After cooling the fat comes to the top and I'm left with a liquid broth.
> > >My questions a
> > >
> > >1) I read in several recipes that the broth should have a gelatin
> texture.
> > >Mine is liquid. What would that indicate about my broth? Am I using
> too
> > >little bone, and is the gelatin coming out of the bone?
> > >
> > >2) The broth itself has many microscopic particles in it. I assume that
> is
> > >pieces of meat and fat and is okay?
> >
> > Refrigeratre it, it should gel.
>
> I did but it stays liquid. This is after removing the hard layer of frozen
> fat from the surface.

You used too much water for those 2 bones. Using a crockpot with lid won't
allow much to evaporate. The gel state is just very concentrated and strong
taste. If yours tastes good (strong enough) to you then no worries.

G.

On 7/20/2013 9:53 PM, Gary wrote:
> W wrote:
>>
>> "John Kuthe" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Sat, 20 Jul 2013 11:22:11 -0700, "W" >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm trying my hand for the first time making bone broth. I selected two
>>>> very large beef bone and left those in a crock pot for about 48 hours.
>>>> After cooling the fat comes to the top and I'm left with a liquid broth.
>>>> My questions a
>>>>
>>>> 1) I read in several recipes that the broth should have a gelatin
>> texture.
>>>> Mine is liquid. What would that indicate about my broth? Am I using
>> too
>>>> little bone, and is the gelatin coming out of the bone?
>>>>
>>>> 2) The broth itself has many microscopic particles in it. I assume that
>> is
>>>> pieces of meat and fat and is okay?
>>>
>>> Refrigeratre it, it should gel.
>>
>> I did but it stays liquid. This is after removing the hard layer of frozen
>> fat from the surface.
>
Frozen? I hope that meant solidified.

> You used too much water for those 2 bones. Using a crockpot with lid won't
> allow much to evaporate. The gel state is just very concentrated and strong
> taste. If yours tastes good (strong enough) to you then no worries.
>
> G.
>
Yes, it should be very concentrated. When the fat is skimmed off the
top the stock should be gelatinous. I've never made stock in a crock
pot. The bones need to have some meat and fat. And then be cooked way
down. Sounds like too much water and a poor method. But hey, if it
tastes good he's got decent beef broth.

I remember kili (RIP, dear lady) calling me, saying she'd made chicken
stock. She was surprised (and a little concerned) after she
refrigerated it and skimmed off the fat it was like gelatin. Relax,
that's exactly how it should be!

Jill

On 7/20/2013 11:12 PM, Christine Dabney wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Jul 2013 23:03:51 -0400, jmcquown >
> wrote:
>
>> The bones need to have some meat and fat.
>
> Yes, they shouldn't be bare bones, so to speak. And it is better if
> they are bones from the joints. Those will produce your gelatin more
> so than just bones.
>
> That is why folks like to use things like chicken feet

I've never been able to find chicken feet. No Asian markets nearby.

, or chicken
> wings for chicken stock..or have a goodly portion of them in the
> stock.

True. Wings make nice stock. If I have them, I add them. Given the
outrageous price (remember when they were inexpensive, more like
scraps?) I don't go out of my way to buy chicken wings. I make very
nice stock using chicken leg quarters.

Jill

Same with beef stock..a beef or veal knuckle will release a
> lot of gelatin. For veal stock, I follow the method by Madeline
> Kamman and use a veal brest..which is loaded with the things that
> produce a gelatinous stock.
>
> And so on... but use more than bare bones, or even meatly
> bones..choose the right bones.
>
> Christine
>

"W" > wrote in message
...
> I'm trying my hand for the first time making bone broth. I selected two
> very large beef bone and left those in a crock pot for about 48 hours.
> After cooling the fat comes to the top and I'm left with a liquid broth.
> My questions a
>
> 1) I read in several recipes that the broth should have a gelatin texture.
> Mine is liquid. What would that indicate about my broth? Am I using
> too
> little bone, and is the gelatin coming out of the bone?
>

It comes mostly from cartilage and marrow.

> 2) The broth itself has many microscopic particles in it. I assume that
> is
> pieces of meat and fat and is okay?

OK but not pretty if you are making a clear soup like consommé. There are
numerous methods to clear the soup including crushed egg shells which the
particles stick to and then you filter through cheese cloth.

On 7/21/2013 12:42 AM, Christine Dabney wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Jul 2013 00:01:43 -0400, jmcquown >
> wrote:
>
>> I've never been able to find chicken feet. No Asian markets nearby.
>
> I can find them in Latino markets as well...
>
> Christine
>
Uh, yeah.

Jill

On Saturday, July 20, 2013 2:22:11 PM UTC-4, W wrote:
> I'm trying my hand for the first time making bone broth. I selected two
> very large beef bone and left those in a crock pot for about 48 hours.
> After cooling the fat comes to the top and I'm left with a liquid broth.
> My questions a
>
> 1) I read in several recipes that the broth should have a gelatin texture.
> Mine is liquid. What would that indicate about my broth? Am I using too
> little bone, and is the gelatin coming out of the bone?
>
> 2) The broth itself has many microscopic particles in it. I assume that is
> pieces of meat and fat and is okay?
>
> W

What do you call "Bone Broth". How did you make it?

http://www.richardfisher.com

On 7/21/2013 9:49 AM, Helpful person wrote:
> On Saturday, July 20, 2013 2:22:11 PM UTC-4, W wrote:
>> I'm trying my hand for the first time making bone broth. I selected two
>> very large beef bone and left those in a crock pot for about 48 hours.
>> After cooling the fat comes to the top and I'm left with a liquid broth.
>> My questions a
>>
>> 1) I read in several recipes that the broth should have a gelatin texture.
>> Mine is liquid. What would that indicate about my broth? Am I using too
>> little bone, and is the gelatin coming out of the bone?
>>
>> 2) The broth itself has many microscopic particles in it. I assume that is
>> pieces of meat and fat and is okay?
>>
>> W
>
> What do you call "Bone Broth". How did you make it?
>
He/she said, "I selected two very large beef bone and left those in a
crock pot for about 48 hours." (I wouldn't attempt to make stock in a
crock pot.)

Of course we have no further information. Bare bones? What kind of
bones? No mention of herbs or any seasonings.

Jill

"John Kuthe" > wrote in message
news
> On Sat, 20 Jul 2013 18:00:36 -0700, "W" >
> wrote:
>
> >"John Kuthe" > wrote in message
> .. .
> >> On Sat, 20 Jul 2013 11:22:11 -0700, "W" >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >I'm trying my hand for the first time making bone broth. I selected
two
> >> >very large beef bone and left those in a crock pot for about 48 hours.
> >> >After cooling the fat comes to the top and I'm left with a liquid
broth.
> >> >My questions a
> >> >
> >> >1) I read in several recipes that the broth should have a gelatin
> >texture.
> >> >Mine is liquid. What would that indicate about my broth? Am I
using
> >too
> >> >little bone, and is the gelatin coming out of the bone?
> >> >
> >> >2) The broth itself has many microscopic particles in it. I assume
that
> >is
> >> >pieces of meat and fat and is okay?
> >>
> >> Refrigeratre it, it should gel.
> >
> >I did but it stays liquid. This is after removing the hard layer of
frozen
> >fat from the surface.
>
> It's not reduced enough to gel.

The water evaporated down to about half way up the bone. We added about
six cups of water after 24 hours and let it continue to 48 hours.


> How's it taste?

Very dense like you would expect a beef broth to taste.

--
W

"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...
> On 7/20/2013 9:53 PM, Gary wrote:
> > W wrote:
> >>
> >> "John Kuthe" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >>> On Sat, 20 Jul 2013 11:22:11 -0700, "W" >
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I'm trying my hand for the first time making bone broth. I selected
two
> >>>> very large beef bone and left those in a crock pot for about 48
hours.
> >>>> After cooling the fat comes to the top and I'm left with a liquid
broth.
> >>>> My questions a
> >>>>
> >>>> 1) I read in several recipes that the broth should have a gelatin
> >> texture.
> >>>> Mine is liquid. What would that indicate about my broth? Am I
using
> >> too
> >>>> little bone, and is the gelatin coming out of the bone?
> >>>>
> >>>> 2) The broth itself has many microscopic particles in it. I assume
that
> >> is
> >>>> pieces of meat and fat and is okay?
> >>>
> >>> Refrigeratre it, it should gel.
> >>
> >> I did but it stays liquid. This is after removing the hard layer of
frozen
> >> fat from the surface.
> >
> Frozen? I hope that meant solidified.

Yes, we refrigerated the broth and the fat hardens on top. The broth
underneath stayed in liquid form with smallish particles of meat and fat
dispersed throughout.


> > You used too much water for those 2 bones. Using a crockpot with lid
won't
> > allow much to evaporate. The gel state is just very concentrated and
strong
> > taste. If yours tastes good (strong enough) to you then no worries.
> >
> Yes, it should be very concentrated. When the fat is skimmed off the
> top the stock should be gelatinous. I've never made stock in a crock
> pot. The bones need to have some meat and fat. And then be cooked way
> down. Sounds like too much water and a poor method. But hey, if it
> tastes good he's got decent beef broth.

Perhaps the problem is we had too few bones in the pot? What's the general
guidance on the density of bone within a given volume? Should we fill about
half the volume of the pot with bone? 3/4 of the volume? We had two
very large bones, maybe 35% of the total volume of the pot.

--
W

"Christine Dabney" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 20 Jul 2013 23:03:51 -0400, jmcquown >
> wrote:
>
> >The bones need to have some meat and fat.
>
> Yes, they shouldn't be bare bones, so to speak. And it is better if
> they are bones from the joints. Those will produce your gelatin more
> so than just bones.

So the guidance would be to strip all meat and fat off the surface of the
bone and leave the material between bones intact?

--
W

"Helpful person" > wrote in message
...
> On Saturday, July 20, 2013 2:22:11 PM UTC-4, W wrote:
> > I'm trying my hand for the first time making bone broth. I selected
two
> > very large beef bone and left those in a crock pot for about 48 hours.
> > After cooling the fat comes to the top and I'm left with a liquid
broth.
> > My questions a
> >
> > 1) I read in several recipes that the broth should have a gelatin
texture.
> > Mine is liquid. What would that indicate about my broth? Am I using
too
> > little bone, and is the gelatin coming out of the bone?
> >
> > 2) The broth itself has many microscopic particles in it. I assume that
is
> > pieces of meat and fat and is okay?
> >
> > W
>
> What do you call "Bone Broth". How did you make it?

Recipe was similar to this:

http://nomnompaleo.com/post/36156093...eef-bone-broth

We only added garlic, no carrots or onions.

I would say a key difference versus the above was that:

1) We didn't have the same volume of bone. Her recipe looks like maybe 50%
of volume was bone, 10% ingredients, and 40% water? Ours was maybe 35%
bone.

2) We didn't have knuckle bones or another bone type with enough cartilage
in it.

--
W

On Sunday, July 21, 2013 12:38:28 PM UTC-4, W wrote:
> "Helpful person" wrote in message
>
> > What do you call "Bone Broth". How did you make it?
>
> Recipe was similar to this:
> http://nomnompaleo.com/post/36156093...eef-bone-broth
>
> We only added garlic, no carrots or onions.
> I would say a key difference versus the above was that:
> 1) We didn't have the same volume of bone. Her recipe looks like maybe 50%
> of volume was bone, 10% ingredients, and 40% water? Ours was maybe 35%
> bone.
> 2) We didn't have knuckle bones or another bone type with enough cartilage
> in it.
>
>

If you follow that recipe the result is guaranteed to be atrocious.

http://www.richardfisher.com

On Sat, 20 Jul 2013 21:28:17 -0700, "Paul M. Cook" >
wrote:

>
>"W" > wrote in message
m...
>> I'm trying my hand for the first time making bone broth. I selected two
>> very large beef bone and left those in a crock pot for about 48 hours.
>> After cooling the fat comes to the top and I'm left with a liquid broth.
>> My questions a
>>
>> 1) I read in several recipes that the broth should have a gelatin texture.
>> Mine is liquid. What would that indicate about my broth? Am I using
>> too
>> little bone, and is the gelatin coming out of the bone?
>>
>
>It comes mostly from cartilage and marrow.

Wrong. Avian bones contain no marrow, they're essentially hollow,
that's what enables flight. However beef bone marrow contains no
gelatin either. Gelatin is contained in connective tissue (cartilage
and tendons), not in bone or marrow. Actually most commercial
gelatine (Knox) is derived primarily from animal hide.

"Brooklyn1" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 20 Jul 2013 21:28:17 -0700, "Paul M. Cook" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"W" > wrote in message
om...
>>> I'm trying my hand for the first time making bone broth. I selected
>>> two
>>> very large beef bone and left those in a crock pot for about 48 hours.
>>> After cooling the fat comes to the top and I'm left with a liquid broth.
>>> My questions a
>>>
>>> 1) I read in several recipes that the broth should have a gelatin
>>> texture.
>>> Mine is liquid. What would that indicate about my broth? Am I using
>>> too
>>> little bone, and is the gelatin coming out of the bone?
>>>
>>
>>It comes mostly from cartilage and marrow.
>
> Wrong. Avian bones contain no marrow, they're essentially hollow,
> that's what enables flight. However beef bone marrow contains no
> gelatin either. Gelatin is contained in connective tissue (cartilage
> and tendons), not in bone or marrow. Actually most commercial
> gelatine (Knox) is derived primarily from animal hide.

The poster was talking about beef stock, not chicken. And you do get the
gelatin from the cartilage and some from the marrow both of which contain
collagen which becomes gelatin. Knuckle bones are the best choice.
CHickenm stock is easy to gel because you use the skin which is rich in
collagen.

"Helpful person" > wrote in message
...
> On Sunday, July 21, 2013 12:38:28 PM UTC-4, W wrote:
> > "Helpful person" wrote in message
> >
> > > What do you call "Bone Broth". How did you make it?
> >
> > Recipe was similar to this:
> > http://nomnompaleo.com/post/36156093...eef-bone-broth
> >
> > We only added garlic, no carrots or onions.
> > I would say a key difference versus the above was that:
> > 1) We didn't have the same volume of bone. Her recipe looks like maybe
50%
> > of volume was bone, 10% ingredients, and 40% water? Ours was maybe
35%
> > bone.
> > 2) We didn't have knuckle bones or another bone type with enough
cartilage
> > in it.
> >
> >
>
> If you follow that recipe the result is guaranteed to be atrocious.
>
> http://www.richardfisher.com

Please post a link to your preferred recipe.

--
W

On Monday, July 22, 2013 7:36:38 AM UTC-4, W wrote:
>
> Please post a link to your preferred recipe.
>
> W

I don't have a recipe handy, I just add ingredients until the volumes
look right. The main problem is technique. First, use a combination
of bones and meat. My favorite is fairly meaty shanks with an addition
of some chuck. It's the meat that give the flavor.

The bones and meat should first be browned. Rub them generously
with oil and place in a 500F oven until they go a dark
mahogany color. (Can't remember offhand how long,
probably about 45 minutes, maybe longer.) When you think they
are dark enough leave them in another 15 minutes.

Place the bones/meat in a large stock pot along with generous
amounts of aromatic vegetables, especially onion, celery and
carrots. Add some spices and herbs as desired, such as whole pepper corns,
bay leaves, etc. but no salt. Salt can be added later when you use the stock.
Cover with water.

Bring to a boil (uncovered) and immediately turn down the heat to a low simmer.
Do not let it boil as the fats and scum etc will combine with the
liquid and make it cloudy. The correct simmer is when you see a
few bubbles reaching the surface each second. (Even less is OK.
Usually, once I get the temperature right, I get maybe a bubble every few
seconds.) Skim as required.

I usually let it simmer for about 6 hours.

Let the mixture cool enough to handle. Remove the bones, meat and vegetables.
I do this by manually removing the large pieces and using a very fine sieve.
Do not force liquid through the sieve as you will push unwanted solids through
as well. (You can also use a double layer of cheesecloth.) If necessary you
can sieve twice.

If necessary further cool the stock by placing the pot in a sink of cold water.
Then in the refrigerator overnight. Next day, skim off the fat. Return
to the stove and reduce as required. I usually reduce to a very small volume,
getting very concentrated stock. I then freeze this in ice cube trays and
then transfer to ziplock bags. One cube per person is enough for a wonderful
sauce.

If you reduce to a very concentrated level you must use a good, aluminum ply
pot. The ply must also go up the sides of the pot. Care needs to be taken
not to burn the stock.

This process takes some time, but you have wonderful instant stock for a long
time.

htp://www.richardfisher.com