Dave Smith wrote:
>
> She served to reinforce my refusal to cater to people who adopt fad
> diets for social reasons.

In this n-wsgroup I shall b-com- a l-gan.
A l-gan do-sn't us- th- l-tt-r -.

On 01/03/2013 4:46 PM, Gary wrote:
> John J wrote:
>>
>> Ophelia wrote:
>>> What I don't understand is, if a vegan came to my house to eat, I would be
>>> very careful to prepare for them food that they are able to eat. Why
>>> wouldn't they do the same for me if visited them?
>>
>> You can't eat vegan food?
>
> If I had vegan friends and they invited me over to dinner, I would go and
> eat what they served. I'll eat anything. Since I'm not vegan though, I just
> would never invite them to my house for dinner. I know the eating habits of
> anyone that I would be tempted to invite over.

Exactly. They expect to be catered to so I seems only fair that they
should be willing to cater to their quests. The, and vegetarians can be
a PITA. When my brother's vegetarian son a DiL come to visit he has to
go out and buy vegetarian food for them. They come down Thanksgiving,
Easter, Christmas... the meas feast holidays. Then they wan Tofurkey
instead of a real turkey Last Easter they were down for Easter and SiL
was unable to cook so they ordered take out Chinese food. The
vegetarians insisted they should order only vegetarian dishes. WTF????
When they are ordering takeout for 10 people? The other 8 can't order
meat dishes???


OTOH when brother and SiL make the 7-8 hour drive to visit the son and
DiL in law, what sort of accommodation can they expect? None. They are
not served or offered meat. Usually they end up having to take their
hosts out for dinner so he can order meat and they can have vegetarian
fare. He used to buy himself a steak to BBQ for himself but... get
this.... DiL objects to him cooking meat on their BBQ. Believe it or
not, they get faux meat shit like veggie and veggie burgers and cook
them on the BBQ and revel in how it is good and tastes just like meat,
but they object to their pretend meat being tainted by real meat flavour.

Hell, these are the vegans and vegetarians in my family, and most of my
family is relatively normal. I haven't seen any evidence of other
vegetarians being any more reasonable. I was involved in a volunteer
organization and the president was vegetarian. We had a fund dinner
dance silent auction fundraiser. She sold a ticket to a friend of hers
who is a vegetarian. The the friend insists that we have to have
vegetarian options and the president agreed.Two hundred people
attending and two vegetarians. I suggested it would be much simpler for
everyone if the two vegetarians either ate salad and.... vegetables...
or don't come.









If the meal is a problem, I
> would just invite them over for wine and not a meal.
>
> A dinner with friends is more about the time together anyway. To avoid any
> problems, I tell invited guests just what I'm going to serve. If they don't
> like that, they can politely decline. I've never had that happen though.
>
> Honestly, the only strict food issues that I've encountered comes from right
> here....RFC.
>
> G.
>

Dave Smith wrote:
>
> They claim
> that they are vegetarians because it is cruel to eat animals. They also
> claim that it is healthier..... though.. the both smoke cigarettes and
> pot, and they drink quite a bit.

heheh


> Being animal lovers, they had to get a puppy. It's not nice to keep a
> puppy restrained on a leash so they let it run free... in the city. When
> it was young it was less than 6 months old it was hit by a car. They
> should have had the pup put down but, being animal lovers, they spent a
> fortune on it. As a result of the being hit, the dog lost one front lake
> and had trouble with the other front lake.

It's very sad to see dogs with injured front lakes.

> The last few times I saw that dog he was obviously in pain. Nope. Can't
> do that.. it's cruel to kill. Well, screw that. I have had dogs most of
> my life, usually two at a time. I have had cats, rats, gerbils and many
> other types of animal pets. I have worked with a wide variety of
> animals. I like animals. I hate to see them in pain. I have had a
> number of animals put down because life had become too painful for them.
> Don't lay some moral superiority bullshit on me over making dogs
> suffer. IMO, that is more cruel than euthanasia.

While I agree with you, Dave, putting down a beloved pet is a very hard
call. While there is life, there is still hope? I made that mistake twice
with pet ferrets and after the fact, I know I should have had them
euthanized but each time, just when I thought they were going to die, they
perked up, started eating again, etc. But each time it was only temporary
and both died in my arms, both late on a Saturday night (three years
apart). What a horrible thing to experience... certainly for them but even
for me.

To this day, I can picture their last gasp while I was holding them. And
then they were gone. Both times, I continued to hold them for a long while
anyway....talking to them in case their spirit was still in the body.

As far as the euthanasia, I agree it's the best thing to do in the final
days. Problem is that you never really know if it seriously IS the final
days. What if they get better? You love them so much, it's not easy to
give up hope.

arrrgghh!

G.

On 01/03/2013 5:04 PM, John J wrote:
> On Fri, 01 Mar 2013 15:56:26 -0500, Dave Smith
> > wrote:
>
>> On 01/03/2013 3:48 PM, Paul M. Cook wrote:
>>
>>>> She served to reinforce my refusal to cater to people who adopt fad diets
>>>> for social reasons.
>>>
>>>
>>> Ever notice the meat substitutes they love like tofurkey, veggie hot dogs,
>>> fake susage, fake burgers etc? If meat is so unnatural a food why does it
>>> seem they crave the taste?
>>>
>>
>>
>> I get a kick out of them when they eat veggie dogs, veggie burgers and
>> similar faux meats. They tell you those things are good.... that they
>> taste just like meat. Good. If you want something that tastes just like
>> meat, eat meat.
>
> Why? What if you like the taste of meat but don't like to have animals
> killed for your food?
>

Why? Like I said.. if you want something that tastes like meat, eat
meat. They process soy and tofu and stuff like that in an attempt to
look and taste like some bad version of meat, but it doesn't really
taste like meat.

On 01/03/2013 5:16 PM, dsi1 wrote:


>
> I once went to a party that served a bunch of different grilled meats
> with rice, macaroni salad, and that's all. It was an orgy of meat. I
> like munching on dead animal flesh as much as the next guy but that was
> way over the top and revolting. Those guys really dug meat!


That sounds like a Hungarian BBQ..... meat, meat, meat and more meat.
One of my nephews is married to a Hungarian girl and her parents have
had us over for "Hungarian BBQ". A (half) Hungarian friend warned me
that it would be a fleshfest. They had beef steaks, pork chops,
chicken, burgers, weiners, sausages.... and a salad.

On 01/03/2013 6:00 PM, Gary wrote:

> While I agree with you, Dave, putting down a beloved pet is a very hard
> call. While there is life, there is still hope? I made that mistake twice
> with pet ferrets and after the fact, I know I should have had them
> euthanized but each time, just when I thought they were going to die, they
> perked up, started eating again, etc. But each time it was only temporary
> and both died in my arms, both late on a Saturday night (three years
> apart). What a horrible thing to experience... certainly for them but even
> for me.
>
> To this day, I can picture their last gasp while I was holding them. And
> then they were gone. Both times, I continued to hold them for a long while
> anyway....talking to them in case their spirit was still in the body.
>
> As far as the euthanasia, I agree it's the best thing to do in the final
> days. Problem is that you never really know if it seriously IS the final
> days. What if they get better? You love them so much, it's not easy to
> give up hope.


I have spent too many hours at deathbed vigils waiting for loved ones to
be released from horrible pain. I always thought it was so cruel to make
them endure the suffering just to ease our guilt. Most of us would not
make a pet suffer until the very end.

On 01/03/2013 6:09 PM, John J wrote:
> On Fri, 01 Mar 2013 17:59:33 -0500, Dave Smith
> > wrote:
>
>> OTOH when brother and SiL make the 7-8 hour drive to visit the son and
>> DiL in law, what sort of accommodation can they expect? None. They are
>> not served or offered meat.
>
> The withdrawal must be terrible. Can't you drink a pint of pig blood
> before you leave the house? And bring some in a hip flask?
>


I would not have expected you to see the irony. Just posts ago you took
a shot a Susan's sense of self worth in the vase of the bloated egos and
selfrighteous attitudes.

On 3/1/2013 12:57 PM, Mark Thorson wrote:
> Dave Smith wrote:
>>
>> She served to reinforce my refusal to cater to people who adopt fad
>> diets for social reasons.
>
> In this n-wsgroup I shall b-com- a l-gan.
> A l-gan do-sn't us- th- l-tt-r -.
>

Unfair! It don't count if you play fill in the blanks!

On 01/03/2013 6:17 PM, John J wrote:
>
>
>> They process soy and tofu and stuff like that in an attempt to
>> look and taste like some bad version of meat, but it doesn't really
>> taste like meat.
>
> Don't eat it. Non-existent problem solved.
>


I don't. Nor do I serve it. Nor would I go to a traditional festive meal
where the hosts were serving such an vegetarian turkey. I have learned
to cater to vegetarians as much as they cater to people with normal
omnivorous diets.

"Sqwertz" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 1 Mar 2013 00:05:50 -0800, Julie Bove wrote:
>
>> Sqwertz wrote:
>>> On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 16:59:53 -0800, Julie Bove wrote:
>>>
>>>> 1 cup nut/seed butter (the natural kind) I used sunseed
>>>> 1/4 cup cocoa powder
>>>> pinch salt
>>>> scant pinch cinnamon
>>>> scant pinch chili powder
>>>> scant pinch black pepper
>>>> 1/3 cup brown rice syrup
>>>> 2 tablespoons vegan butter substitute
>>>> 1/2 teaspoon vanilla (use the good stuff)
>>>> 1/ cup coarsely broken walnuts
>>>
>>> That's not even close to being a fudge. Those crazy vegetarians will
>>> try and *******ize anything and everything to get their way.
>>
>> The taste is that of fudge.
>
> I don't believe that one bit. I think you've got fudge between the
> ears. There is no creaminess in there and very little sweetener. And
> what is sunseed - pepita? It doesn't matter. It still sucks. There
> is no way normal people would accept this as anything resembling
> fudge.

The end result is very creamy. What it is lacking is that graininess that
you can only get with sugar. Sunseed is sunflower seed butter.

"Doris Night" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 1 Mar 2013 03:56:55 -0800, "Julie Bove"
> > wrote:
>>
>>"Paul M. Cook" > wrote in message
...
>
>>> Your daughter has you wrapped around her little finger. You are her
>>> slave
>>> bitch. She is a nascent "withholder." She'll ruin every relationship
>>> she
>>> ever enters into. You could buy her a case of premium Dutch chocolate
>>> an
>>> if daughter senses you did it because you love her, she will decide she
>>> hates chocolate altogether and will not touch another molecule of it to
>>> save her life.
>>>
>>> Blather, wince, repeat.
>>
>>Uh... No. I bought the case because it was much cheaper to do it that
>>way.
>>I don't buy things because I "love" her. If that's why you buy things you
>>are really messed up!
>
> ISTM that in the past you have bought large quantities of other
> things, only to find that suddenly nobody would eat them.

Yep. But apparently that is quite common. My friend has the same problem
at her house and there are only adults living there. I am one of those
people who can eat the same things over and over with no problems but
apparently most people aren't like that.

"Paul M. Cook" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Doris Night" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Fri, 1 Mar 2013 03:56:55 -0800, "Julie Bove"
>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>"Paul M. Cook" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>>> Your daughter has you wrapped around her little finger. You are her
>>>> slave
>>>> bitch. She is a nascent "withholder." She'll ruin every relationship
>>>> she
>>>> ever enters into. You could buy her a case of premium Dutch chocolate
>>>> an
>>>> if daughter senses you did it because you love her, she will decide she
>>>> hates chocolate altogether and will not touch another molecule of it to
>>>> save her life.
>>>>
>>>> Blather, wince, repeat.
>>>
>>>Uh... No. I bought the case because it was much cheaper to do it that
>>>way.
>>>I don't buy things because I "love" her. If that's why you buy things
>>>you
>>>are really messed up!
>>
>> ISTM that in the past you have bought large quantities of other
>> things, only to find that suddenly nobody would eat them.
>
> And dumped the whole kit kaboodle in the trash. The thing is there is not
> enough food variety on the planet to keep the cycle going much longer. At
> some part we'll be talking pine needle and tree bark recipes.

No. I don't dump any food in the trash because all food needs to be
recycled here. If it is still in an unopened package, I have two other ways
to get rid of food. One is to the food bank. But they will only take non
perishable stuff. I know a family who has fallen on hard times and they
usually willingly take whatever we no longer want. They even took some
gluten free bread last year. I currently have 4 things to get rid of. A
package of chips that I bought for my husband and he didn't eat. Two
packages of pasta that contain Jerusalem Artichoke Flour. That stuff does
not agree with me and I didn't notice that it was in there with daughter
picked the packages off of the shelf. They didn't cost me much because I
had a coupon for them. And then the can of Veg All. If this family does
not want these items, then I will donate to the food bank. Not the chips
though because they do expire in a few weeks. But I am pretty sure they
will take them. If not, I can just open the bag, leave it in the dressing
room kitchen in the dance studio and they'll be gone. Not a problem.

On 01/03/2013 6:32 PM, John J wrote:

>>
>>
>> I would not have expected you to see the irony. Just posts ago you took
>> a shot a Susan's sense of self worth
>
> Now you're taking things out of proportion.
>
>> in the vase of the bloated egos and selfrighteous attitudes.
>
> It sounds poetic but I don't know what it means.
>


Again.... not surprised.

On 3/1/2013 4:49 PM, dsi1 wrote:

>> A few years ago we threw a BBQ dinner for a church fundraiser. We had
>> brisket, ribs, sausage, chicken and pulled pork. There were plenty of
>> sides (mostly salads) and beans. Rolls, beer and soda (and some wine for
>> the hoity toity). Brownies and ice cream for dessert.
>>
>> It isn't the kind of meal you would make every day, but for a party, it
>> was pretty good.
>>
>> No one went home hungry.
>>
>> George L
>
> That sounds like a good spread. I've never seen brownies and ice cream
> at parties. That would be awesome!


We also had lemon cake balls. To be honest, I made them because I
wanted to try them. They tasted good, nice and lemony, but they were a
little too sweet.

Becca

On 3/1/2013 1:11 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 01/03/2013 5:16 PM, dsi1 wrote:
>
>
>>
>> I once went to a party that served a bunch of different grilled meats
>> with rice, macaroni salad, and that's all. It was an orgy of meat. I
>> like munching on dead animal flesh as much as the next guy but that was
>> way over the top and revolting. Those guys really dug meat!
>
>
> That sounds like a Hungarian BBQ..... meat, meat, meat and more meat.
> One of my nephews is married to a Hungarian girl and her parents have
> had us over for "Hungarian BBQ". A (half) Hungarian friend warned me
> that it would be a fleshfest. They had beef steaks, pork chops,
> chicken, burgers, weiners, sausages.... and a salad.

Well, the family's roots are Japanese-America and Italian-Italian. The
mother was a war bride who was brought to Hawaii after WWII. I can't
imagine what a family like that would be culturally. Perhaps they turn
out to be Hungarian. :-)

"Ophelia" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> "graham" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Susan" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> x-no-arhive: yes
>>>
>>> On 3/1/2013 9:22 AM, graham wrote:
>>>
>>>> That's not the point! Child slaves are being used to harvest the cocoa
>>>> beans
>>>> in many places.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Vegans often seem to value animal's lives above human suffering.
>>>
>>> Just in my unscientific observation.
>>>
>> Not just yours! A good case can be made that PETA types also hate their
>> fellow humans.
>
> What I don't understand is, if a vegan came to my house to eat, I would be
> very careful to prepare for them food that they are able to eat. Why
> wouldn't they do the same for me if visited them?

Some people just get very skeeved out about dead things. They can not bring
themselves to even bring meat into the house.

When I was a vegetarian, I used to make meals like steak dinners for my
guests. Then I realized that this was silly because I was feeding them, but
had nothing for myself to eat.

So then I switched it up to making things that we would both eat but...
Many of the meat eaters I know seem to feel that they need meat at almost
every meal. So if I made pierogies or mac and cheese, they still wanted
meat on the side. So eventually I just wound up buying some sort of
prepared meat like deli meat. Sometimes what I would do was to make a salad
bar and put out a couple kinds of meat, also hard boiled eggs and cheese.
And then I might also make pizza. Or I would do a taco bar with a couple
kinds of meat and also beans for me.

I have never actually eaten at a vegan's house. When I was on the raw vegan
diet, a lot of the people I was in contact with did live in this area. But
I was afraid to meet them. As I said, I do use leather. At the time I have
a leather computer chair and carried a leather purse. Most of my shoes were
leather. They had a big potluck near here and I did want to go but based on
comments I had seen a lot of them make, I knew that I would be judged. I
couldn't bring myself to go. I would have had to bring my daughter and at
the time I don't even think she had any shoes that they wouldn't judge. I
think for some reason true vegans even object to the use of rubber.

Although I don't think that any of those vegans that live in this area were
the really judgmental type, in fact most seemed quite nice, I still was sort
of afraid of them. One claims to be a witch. She has since left that forum
and is selling things on Ebay and other places. I do have real issues with
her and really did not want to meet her. She claims to be legally blind and
yet she is an artist. Makes paintings. They were good paintings but I
couldn't see how she could possibly do this and not be able to see. She
also charged money to put spells on people and sold things like spell kits.
And that's what I took exception to. I am not a religious person and really
have no objections per se with witchcraft, unless perhaps the person sets
out to do evil. But the selling of spells and such just goes against the
grain of what witchcraft is about. So I guess for that reason I disliked
her. She also made some very stupid comments that made me not want to meet
her. She said that once she went to Costco and found herself staring at
cinnamon rolls or some such thing, unable to fathom what they were because
in her mind they did not look like food. To her food was stuff like apples
and mushrooms.

Anyway... If I did go to a vegan's home, I would not expect them to serve
me meat. But that would also be fine with me because I don't really like
meat. I would hope though that they would not serve me something like tofu
or seitan. I have actually never eaten seitan so can't judge it one way or
the other but I do dislike tofu.

I did have one friend who when dinner time rolled around would put out a
bowl of trail mix. That was dinner. And that was fine by me. I usually
still had the desire for a little more food than that, but I would just eat
a little something else when I got home. At least it was enough food to
keep me from starving.

"John J" > wrote in message
news
> On Fri, 1 Mar 2013 16:59:31 -0000, "Ophelia"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"graham" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>> "Susan" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> x-no-arhive: yes
>>>>
>>>> On 3/1/2013 9:22 AM, graham wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> That's not the point! Child slaves are being used to harvest the cocoa
>>>>> beans
>>>>> in many places.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Vegans often seem to value animal's lives above human suffering.
>>>>
>>>> Just in my unscientific observation.
>>>>
>>> Not just yours! A good case can be made that PETA types also hate their
>>> fellow humans.
>>
>>What I don't understand is, if a vegan came to my house to eat, I would be
>>very careful to prepare for them food that they are able to eat. Why
>>wouldn't they do the same for me if visited them?
>
> You can't eat vegan food?

I eat vegan food a lot but have you ever seen Christina Pirello's show?
Some of that stuff she comes up with looks pretty gaggy. She said she once
made something like tofu with blueberry sauce.

When I eat vegan food, I prefer more simple things. Beans or bean soup or a
vegetable soup with beans in it. Beans and rice or beans and pasta. Not
that I eat a lot of that sort of thing now due to the carb count. I don't
really want some kind of highly composed thing that will give me the feeling
that I am eating meat. Not that all vegans do that but a lot of the vegan
foods do have that concept.

"dsi1" > wrote in message
...
> I once went to a party that served a bunch of different grilled meats with
> rice, macaroni salad, and that's all. It was an orgy of meat. I like
> munching on dead animal flesh as much as the next guy but that was way
> over the top and revolting. Those guys really dug meat!

I have been to far too many parties like that. I always put out a wide
variety of foods at a party but not usually a lot of variety of meat.
Except for the year that I did the sandwich bar and had meat and cheese
platters. I had some kosher Jewish people who came to that party and I did
go to great lengths with the food for them. That was my real introduction
into what they can and can't eat and how it is to be prepared, stored, etc.
I even bought the meat at a specific store for them. I was told that it was
very good meat!

"Paul M. Cook" > wrote in message
...
> Ever notice the meat substitutes they love like tofurkey, veggie hot dogs,
> fake susage, fake burgers etc? If meat is so unnatural a food why does it
> seem they crave the taste?

Not all vegans eat that stuff. I used to love Boca Burgers but wouldn't eat
them now because of the soy in them. More recently I have bought Sunshine
Burgers. They are made with black beans. They are really good. I don't
buy them because they remind me of meat. I buy them because I like them! I
used to eat soy bacon too. Until I had that accident in a motel where I
left it too long in the microwave. Ew! I mainly bought that because I did
like bacon but didn't like to cook it. That stuff could be nuked. But now
I can just get precooked bacon.

"Julie Bove" > wrote in message
...

> But if I had to go kill and butcher that cow myself? Well... I just
> wouldn't do it. I wouldn't have fared well if I lived in the old days and
> had to do stuff like that.

Sure you would. You can say that because you've never known true hunger, but
if you did...you'd eat the cow raw and hopefully you would have killed it
first.

Cheri

On 3/1/2013 1:41 PM, Ema Nymton wrote:
>
>
> We also had lemon cake balls. To be honest, I made them because I
> wanted to try them. They tasted good, nice and lemony, but they were a
> little too sweet.
>
> Becca

Unfortunately, Asians have not fully embraced the concept of "dessert."
A tragedy!

"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
...
> Why? Like I said.. if you want something that tastes like meat, eat
> meat. They process soy and tofu and stuff like that in an attempt to look
> and taste like some bad version of meat, but it doesn't really taste like
> meat.

When my family first turned to products like that back in the 1970's, it was
strictly because that stuff cost a lot less money than meat. In our case
the horrid stuff we had was ham flavored TVP. Believe me when I say that
nobody in the family liked the stuff but we had no choice but to eat it
because we had suddenly become temporarily poor due to my dad's hours being
cut back severely at work. We threw a big party and went out to eat as soon
as his hours resumed. And we never ate that stuff again. My dad is a big
meat lover and I guess to him, anything that seemed like meat was a good
thing. In theory that is.

They did the same thing during the depression. They'd serve bread with
gravy on it or form things into patties or loaves to resemble meat.

But these days? I think a lot of that highly processed stuff isn't a lot
cheaper than meat. Don't quote me on this though because I don't pay a lot
of mind to that stuff in the store. I have accidentally picked it up, not
realizing what it is.

On 3/1/2013 1:56 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
> "dsi1" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I once went to a party that served a bunch of different grilled meats with
>> rice, macaroni salad, and that's all. It was an orgy of meat. I like
>> munching on dead animal flesh as much as the next guy but that was way
>> over the top and revolting. Those guys really dug meat!
>
> I have been to far too many parties like that. I always put out a wide
> variety of foods at a party but not usually a lot of variety of meat.
> Except for the year that I did the sandwich bar and had meat and cheese
> platters. I had some kosher Jewish people who came to that party and I did
> go to great lengths with the food for them. That was my real introduction
> into what they can and can't eat and how it is to be prepared, stored, etc.
> I even bought the meat at a specific store for them. I was told that it was
> very good meat!
>
>

I'd like to go to a Jewish shindig.

John J wrote:
>
> On Fri, 01 Mar 2013 18:22:48 -0500, Dave Smith
> > wrote:
>
> >I would not have expected you to see the irony. Just posts ago you took
> >a shot a Susan's sense of self worth
>
> Now you're taking things out of proportion.
>
> >in the vase of the bloated egos and selfrighteous attitudes.
>
> It sounds poetic but I don't know what it means.

I don't know what it means either, but it sounds
like something I agree with.

"George M. Middius" > wrote in message
...
> jmcquown wrote:
>
>> > unless the sugar says vegan, it's not.
>
>> What the hell does that mean, exactly? Regular everyday table-sugar is
>> extracted from sugar cane or sugar beets. What isn't vegan about it?
>> Cane and beets are plants. Educate me.
>
> Oh dear. Looks like you've reverted to your regular form.
>
> Clearly, the sugar has to be isolated from all fauna, including insects.
> That's a difficult standard for sugar growers and refiners; hence, only
> the
> "Certified Vegan" label guarantees that no bugs have been near the stuff.

Wrong!

"Paul M. Cook" > wrote in message
...
>
> "George M. Middius" > wrote in message
> ...
>> jmcquown wrote:
>>
>>> > unless the sugar says vegan, it's not.
>>
>>> What the hell does that mean, exactly? Regular everyday table-sugar is
>>> extracted from sugar cane or sugar beets. What isn't vegan about it?
>>> Cane and beets are plants. Educate me.
>>
>> Oh dear. Looks like you've reverted to your regular form.
>>
>> Clearly, the sugar has to be isolated from all fauna, including insects.
>> That's a difficult standard for sugar growers and refiners; hence, only
>> the
>> "Certified Vegan" label guarantees that no bugs have been near the stuff.
>
> Ask any vegan if they will take calcium supplements and they'll tell you
> no because they cannot find a source not made from coral or oyster shells.

And they probably don't need it because they eat a lot of greens.

"Paul M. Cook" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Julie Bove" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Paul M. Cook" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Julie Bove" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> "dsi1" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> On 2/28/2013 6:17 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I tried to follow this as closely as I could the first time because I
>>>>>> wasn't
>>>>>> sure how it would come out. And I didn't use honey because I really
>>>>>> dislike
>>>>>> the stuff. Not sure that corn syrup would work because I think it is
>>>>>> too
>>>>>> runny, plus I had none. So far so good on the GERD front. But
>>>>>> daughter
>>>>>> didn't like it with the walnuts. Will try to make it again without
>>>>>> those
>>>>>> but not sure it will hold up as well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You might want to try Korean cactus honey which is available in Korean
>>>>> markets. I don't know anything about it except that it's popular cause
>>>>> they have a bunch of that stuff on the shelves. It comes in liquid and
>>>>> powder form.
>>>>
>>>> Well I don't think I'll be making this again unless daughter likes it
>>>> without the nuts. I tried it after it set up and I didn't care for it
>>>> so much. I don't know why really. But I also am not big into sweets.
>>>> I just thought I'd make it because I have a ton of sunseed butter.
>>>> This was one of those things that daughter was eating like mad until I
>>>> bought a case of it. And now consumption has dropped.
>>>
>>> Your daughter has you wrapped around her little finger. You are her
>>> slave bitch. She is a nascent "withholder." She'll ruin every
>>> relationship she ever enters into. You could buy her a case of premium
>>> Dutch chocolate an if daughter senses you did it because you love her,
>>> she will decide she hates chocolate altogether and will not touch
>>> another molecule of it to save her life.
>>>
>>> Blather, wince, repeat.
>>
>> Uh... No. I bought the case because it was much cheaper to do it that
>> way. I don't buy things because I "love" her. If that's why you buy
>> things you are really messed up!
>
>
> You bought it thinking she'd appreciate her mom caring for her.

Uh. No. I bought it to save money.

"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
...
> On 01/03/2013 4:08 PM, George M. Middius wrote:
>> Paul M. Cook wrote:
>>
>>> I knew a vegan once who moved into an apartment with a perfectly good
>>> fridge. She had it removed and bought a "virgin" fridge which had never
>>> known meat.
>>
>> BZZZZZT! Not buyin' it.
>>
>>
>
>
> Nope. Based on my limited experience with vegans I can see that happening.
> I wish I could remember who it was who described them as being extremely
> selfish.

We had a neighbor who said she had to have a brand new fridge every time she
moved. She even insisted on it in the military housing and claimed that she
got it. I could see replacing one that was super gunky like my stove was.
And we did look at one house that had a fridge so bad that had we moved in
there, I would have replaced it.

"John J" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 1 Mar 2013 15:53:29 -0800, "Julie Bove"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>"John J" > wrote in message
>>news
>>> On Fri, 1 Mar 2013 16:59:31 -0000, "Ophelia"
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"graham" > wrote in message
...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Susan" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> x-no-arhive: yes
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/1/2013 9:22 AM, graham wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's not the point! Child slaves are being used to harvest the
>>>>>>> cocoa
>>>>>>> beans
>>>>>>> in many places.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Vegans often seem to value animal's lives above human suffering.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just in my unscientific observation.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Not just yours! A good case can be made that PETA types also hate
>>>>> their
>>>>> fellow humans.
>>>>
>>>>What I don't understand is, if a vegan came to my house to eat, I would
>>>>be
>>>>very careful to prepare for them food that they are able to eat. Why
>>>>wouldn't they do the same for me if visited them?
>>>
>>> You can't eat vegan food?
>>
>>I eat vegan food a lot but have you ever seen Christina Pirello's show?
>>Some of that stuff she comes up with looks pretty gaggy. She said she
>>once
>>made something like tofu with blueberry sauce.
>
> I just watched her make fudge on youtube.
>
>>When I eat vegan food, I prefer more simple things. Beans or bean soup or
>>a
>>vegetable soup with beans in it. Beans and rice or beans and pasta. Not
>>that I eat a lot of that sort of thing now due to the carb count. I don't
>>really want some kind of highly composed thing that will give me the
>>feeling
>>that I am eating meat. Not that all vegans do that but a lot of the vegan
>>foods do have that concept.
>
> Highly composed, yes. I often notice that vegan recipes have lots of
> ingredients, almost like science projects.

Yes! They often do. That's part of the reason I love cooking so much. The
science part of it. Watching the ingredients transform.

"Sqwertz" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 1 Mar 2013 15:53:29 -0800, Julie Bove wrote:
>
>> I eat vegan food a lot but have you ever seen Christina Pirello's show?
>> Some of that stuff she comes up with looks pretty gaggy. She said she
>> once
>> made something like tofu with blueberry sauce.
>
> When you're a vegan, you have to get pretty inventive and you end up
> convincing yourself that you like it. Vegans have a much lower
> standard of food and cooking. But it's all relative for them.
> omnivores.

I don't think most have a much lower standard at all. In fact most have a
much higher standard!

"dsi1" > wrote in message
...
> On 3/1/2013 1:56 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>> "dsi1" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> I once went to a party that served a bunch of different grilled meats
>>> with
>>> rice, macaroni salad, and that's all. It was an orgy of meat. I like
>>> munching on dead animal flesh as much as the next guy but that was way
>>> over the top and revolting. Those guys really dug meat!
>>
>> I have been to far too many parties like that. I always put out a wide
>> variety of foods at a party but not usually a lot of variety of meat.
>> Except for the year that I did the sandwich bar and had meat and cheese
>> platters. I had some kosher Jewish people who came to that party and I
>> did
>> go to great lengths with the food for them. That was my real
>> introduction
>> into what they can and can't eat and how it is to be prepared, stored,
>> etc.
>> I even bought the meat at a specific store for them. I was told that it
>> was
>> very good meat!
>>
>>
>
> I'd like to go to a Jewish shindig.

I went to one but the person who brought me to it really screwed up! It was
Sephardic and it was a pot luck. He brought a chicken and broccoli
casserole that used a cream of something soup in it. He kept wondering why
nobody was eating it.

"Cheri" > wrote in message
...
> "Julie Bove" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> But if I had to go kill and butcher that cow myself? Well... I just
>> wouldn't do it. I wouldn't have fared well if I lived in the old days
>> and had to do stuff like that.
>
> Sure you would. You can say that because you've never known true hunger,
> but if you did...you'd eat the cow raw and hopefully you would have killed
> it first.

Nope. I wouldn't. I could know true hunger and I still wouldn't kill. And
I have said many times before that I would likely starve to death before I
ate something I hated. Like cooked broccoli. People who say stuff like
that are obviously not picky eaters.

"Julie Bove" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Paul M. Cook" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "George M. Middius" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> jmcquown wrote:
>>>
>>>> > unless the sugar says vegan, it's not.
>>>
>>>> What the hell does that mean, exactly? Regular everyday table-sugar is
>>>> extracted from sugar cane or sugar beets. What isn't vegan about it?
>>>> Cane and beets are plants. Educate me.
>>>
>>> Oh dear. Looks like you've reverted to your regular form.
>>>
>>> Clearly, the sugar has to be isolated from all fauna, including insects.
>>> That's a difficult standard for sugar growers and refiners; hence, only
>>> the
>>> "Certified Vegan" label guarantees that no bugs have been near the
>>> stuff.
>>
>> Ask any vegan if they will take calcium supplements and they'll tell you
>> no because they cannot find a source not made from coral or oyster
>> shells.
>
> And they probably don't need it because they eat a lot of greens.

It's not enough.

"Julie Bove" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Paul M. Cook" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Julie Bove" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Paul M. Cook" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> "Julie Bove" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> "dsi1" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> On 2/28/2013 6:17 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I tried to follow this as closely as I could the first time because
>>>>>>> I wasn't
>>>>>>> sure how it would come out. And I didn't use honey because I really
>>>>>>> dislike
>>>>>>> the stuff. Not sure that corn syrup would work because I think it
>>>>>>> is too
>>>>>>> runny, plus I had none. So far so good on the GERD front. But
>>>>>>> daughter
>>>>>>> didn't like it with the walnuts. Will try to make it again without
>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>> but not sure it will hold up as well.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You might want to try Korean cactus honey which is available in
>>>>>> Korean markets. I don't know anything about it except that it's
>>>>>> popular cause they have a bunch of that stuff on the shelves. It
>>>>>> comes in liquid and powder form.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well I don't think I'll be making this again unless daughter likes it
>>>>> without the nuts. I tried it after it set up and I didn't care for it
>>>>> so much. I don't know why really. But I also am not big into sweets.
>>>>> I just thought I'd make it because I have a ton of sunseed butter.
>>>>> This was one of those things that daughter was eating like mad until I
>>>>> bought a case of it. And now consumption has dropped.
>>>>
>>>> Your daughter has you wrapped around her little finger. You are her
>>>> slave bitch. She is a nascent "withholder." She'll ruin every
>>>> relationship she ever enters into. You could buy her a case of premium
>>>> Dutch chocolate an if daughter senses you did it because you love her,
>>>> she will decide she hates chocolate altogether and will not touch
>>>> another molecule of it to save her life.
>>>>
>>>> Blather, wince, repeat.
>>>
>>> Uh... No. I bought the case because it was much cheaper to do it that
>>> way. I don't buy things because I "love" her. If that's why you buy
>>> things you are really messed up!
>>
>>
>> You bought it thinking she'd appreciate her mom caring for her.
>
> Uh. No. I bought it to save money.


And now you wasted it instead. See? We've heard the pattern many times
now.

"Paul M. Cook" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Julie Bove" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Paul M. Cook" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Julie Bove" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> "Paul M. Cook" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Julie Bove" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "dsi1" > wrote in message
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>> On 2/28/2013 6:17 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I tried to follow this as closely as I could the first time because
>>>>>>>> I wasn't
>>>>>>>> sure how it would come out. And I didn't use honey because I
>>>>>>>> really dislike
>>>>>>>> the stuff. Not sure that corn syrup would work because I think it
>>>>>>>> is too
>>>>>>>> runny, plus I had none. So far so good on the GERD front. But
>>>>>>>> daughter
>>>>>>>> didn't like it with the walnuts. Will try to make it again without
>>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>>> but not sure it will hold up as well.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You might want to try Korean cactus honey which is available in
>>>>>>> Korean markets. I don't know anything about it except that it's
>>>>>>> popular cause they have a bunch of that stuff on the shelves. It
>>>>>>> comes in liquid and powder form.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well I don't think I'll be making this again unless daughter likes it
>>>>>> without the nuts. I tried it after it set up and I didn't care for
>>>>>> it so much. I don't know why really. But I also am not big into
>>>>>> sweets. I just thought I'd make it because I have a ton of sunseed
>>>>>> butter. This was one of those things that daughter was eating like
>>>>>> mad until I bought a case of it. And now consumption has dropped.
>>>>>
>>>>> Your daughter has you wrapped around her little finger. You are her
>>>>> slave bitch. She is a nascent "withholder." She'll ruin every
>>>>> relationship she ever enters into. You could buy her a case of
>>>>> premium Dutch chocolate an if daughter senses you did it because you
>>>>> love her, she will decide she hates chocolate altogether and will not
>>>>> touch another molecule of it to save her life.
>>>>>
>>>>> Blather, wince, repeat.
>>>>
>>>> Uh... No. I bought the case because it was much cheaper to do it that
>>>> way. I don't buy things because I "love" her. If that's why you buy
>>>> things you are really messed up!
>>>
>>>
>>> You bought it thinking she'd appreciate her mom caring for her.
>>
>> Uh. No. I bought it to save money.
>
>
> And now you wasted it instead. See? We've heard the pattern many times
> now.

No. I didn't waste anything. I just ate 4 pieces of the fudge and sickened
myself. Happy? She has eaten several jars already and there is still
plenty of time before it expires.

"John J" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 1 Mar 2013 21:26:01 -0800, "Julie Bove"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>"Sqwertz" > wrote in message
...
>>> On Fri, 1 Mar 2013 15:53:29 -0800, Julie Bove wrote:
>>>
>>>> I eat vegan food a lot but have you ever seen Christina Pirello's show?
>>>> Some of that stuff she comes up with looks pretty gaggy. She said she
>>>> once
>>>> made something like tofu with blueberry sauce.
>>>
>>> When you're a vegan, you have to get pretty inventive and you end up
>>> convincing yourself that you like it. Vegans have a much lower
>>> standard of food and cooking. But it's all relative for them.
>>> omnivores.
>>
>>I don't think most have a much lower standard at all. In fact most have a
>>much higher standard!
>
> Whereas the majority of meat eaters have no standard at all, except
> price.

Quite true.

"John J" > wrote in message
...

> I like meat, but I don't eat it.

I like meat, and I do eat it, lots of it. So, now we have that worked out I
like Tofu too.

Cheri

"Sqwertz" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 02 Mar 2013 16:57:14 +1100, John J wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 1 Mar 2013 21:26:01 -0800, "Julie Bove"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Sqwertz" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>>> When you're a vegan, you have to get pretty inventive and you end up
>>>> convincing yourself that you like it. Vegans have a much lower
>>>> standard of food and cooking. But it's all relative for them.
>>>> omnivores.
>>>
>>>I don't think most have a much lower standard at all. In fact most have
>>>a
>>>much higher standard!
>
> You have to lower your standards when you can't use the most common
> ingredients that make for tasty food. Butter, bacon, sugar, just to
> name 3 of hundreds of products that they have to find inferior
> replacements.
>
>> Whereas the majority of meat eaters have no standard at all, except
>> price.
>
> WTF is that supposed to mean? That probably won't sound do profound
> to you when you're sober.

I know plenty of meat eaters who never question the quality of their meat.

"Sqwertz" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 1 Mar 2013 22:29:37 -0800, Julie Bove wrote:
>
>> "Sqwertz" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Sat, 02 Mar 2013 16:57:14 +1100, John J wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 1 Mar 2013 21:26:01 -0800, "Julie Bove"
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Sqwertz" > wrote in message
...
>>>>
>>>>>> When you're a vegan, you have to get pretty inventive and you end up
>>>>>> convincing yourself that you like it. Vegans have a much lower
>>>>>> standard of food and cooking. But it's all relative for them.
>>>>>> omnivores.
>>>>>
>>>>>I don't think most have a much lower standard at all. In fact most
>>>>>have
>>>>>a
>>>>>much higher standard!
>>>
>>> You have to lower your standards when you can't use the most common
>>> ingredients that make for tasty food. Butter, bacon, sugar, just to
>>> name 3 of hundreds of products that they have to find inferior
>>> replacements.
>>>
>>>> Whereas the majority of meat eaters have no standard at all, except
>>>> price.
>>>
>>> WTF is that supposed to mean? That probably won't sound do profound
>>> to you when you're sober.
>>
>> I know plenty of meat eaters who never question the quality of their
>> meat.
>
> And I know plenty of vegetarians that never question the quality of
> the vegetables that are grown in cow shit. More people have been
> sickened or died from food borne illness from vegetables rather than
> meat
>
> But WTF does this have to do with anything?

Most of what is said here has nothing to do with anything.

"Cheri" > wrote in message
...
> "John J" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> I like meat, but I don't eat it.
>
> I like meat, and I do eat it, lots of it. So, now we have that worked out
> I like Tofu too.
>
> Cheri