On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 18:28:57 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

> On 27/02/2013 6:28 PM, jmcquown wrote:
> > On 2/27/2013 10:18 AM, sf wrote:
> >> On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 07:12:53 -0500, jmcquown >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> My mother used tenderloin on the rare occasions she made stroganoff.
> >>
> >> That stuff is too expensive to cut into little pieces, cook until dead
> >> and cover with cream sauce, AFAIC.
> >>
> > I *did* say she rarely made it. The first time I recall was when we
> > lived in Virginia. My aunt and uncle lived nearby in Maryland and would
> > visit occasionally. (This was in the 1960's so I have no idea what the
> > price of beef tenderloin would have been.) I do know my aunt was (still
> > is, at age 91) a very good cook. Mom was probably trying to make an
> > impression.
> >
> My mother always made it with sirloin.

That sounds like a sensible compromise!

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On 27/02/2013 22:22, Victor Sack wrote:
> David Rance > wrote:
>
>> Victor Sack wrote:
>>
>> The first published recipe for Beef Stroganoff (1871) did not specify
>> any accompaniments or side dishes.
>>
>> You are partly right though your date for the first published recipe is
>> not. It first appeared in 1861 in a Russian cookbook by Elena Molokhovets.
>
> Incorrect, and I have also made this mistake before. The first edition
> of the book appeared in 1861, but the recipe was first included in the
> 1871 edition.
>
>>> (Beef Stroganoff has always been primarily a restaurant dish in Russia)
>>
>> Not in its origins as it was peasant food. It became known as stroganoff
>> (it is thought) after it became associated with the Stroganoff family
>> which gave it a certain dignified association worthy, then, for it to be
>> included on a restaurant menu.
>
> Nonsense. Not only is it not a peasant dish, it is not even Russian in
> its premise. Traditional Russian meat dishes have always been prepared
> with a solid piece of meat, almost never cut into small pieces or minced
> when still raw. In a recent (2011) book "Nepridumanaya istoriya russkoy
> kukhni" ("Non-invented history of the Russian cuisine"), the authors,
> Olga and Pavel Syutkin, list most everything that is known or just
> surmised about Beef Stroganoff, and there is little doubt that it has
> always been associated with the Stroganoff family and has never had any
> plausible counterpart in the traditional Russian cuisine.

Well, your sources seem to contradict mine so we shall never agree! ;-)

David

--
David Rance writing from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France

On 27/02/2013 23:13, jmcquown wrote:

> On 2/27/2013 10:14 AM, sf wrote:

>> On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 08:58:05 -0500, jmcquown >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In the version often
>>> prepared in the USA today in restaurants and hotels, it consists of
>>> strips of beef filet with a mushroom, onion, and sour cream sauce, and
>>> is served over rice or pasta."
>>
>> What restaurants serve it? I can't recall ever seeing it on any menu.
>>
> Don't ask me, I was just quoting Wikipedia. I don't know what
> restaurants might serve stroganoff!

It appears from time to time in restaurants in the UK but I've found
that chefs' interpretations can vary widely. Which is not surprising if
you read the history of the dish!

David

--
David Rance writing from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France

On 27/02/2013 23:21, Dave Smith wrote:

> On 27/02/2013 8:15 AM, James Silverton wrote:
>>>
>>> I should have said that it is traditionally eaten with boiled rice. It's
>>> a Russian dish, not Italian - so not pasta!
>>>
>>
>> Perhaps, you are right but I've always eaten it with noodles.
>
> Me too. But egg noodles, which are typically used in Germany and Eastern
> Europe, not Italian type pasta.

What's the difference between egg noodles and Italian type pasta! I've
seen Italians make pasta and it consists of flour, eggs and a little
olive oil - which is the way I make it.

If I google for egg noodles it brings up recipes for pasta!

David

--
David Rance writing from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France

On 2/27/2013 11:34 PM, sf wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 15:10:06 -0800 (PST), Bryan
> > wrote:
>
>> Using shrooms as a short for mushrooms is cutesy and goofball.
>
> And druggie
>
I can't say I like the stupid word but others (non-druggies) seem to too.

--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)

Extraneous "not" in Reply To.

On Feb 27, 12:34*pm, sf > wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 07:27:30 -0800 (PST), A Moose in Love
>
> > wrote:
> > On Feb 27, 10:18*am, sf > wrote:
> > > On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 07:12:53 -0500, jmcquown >
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > My mother used tenderloin on the rare occasions she made stroganoff..
>
> > > That stuff is too expensive to cut into little pieces, cook until dead
> > > and cover with cream sauce, AFAIC.
>
> > A chef I know, at the hotel where he apprenticed at in Germany, they'd
> > make stroganoff to order using beef tenderloin. *Google for recipes.
>
> No need to, I've seen them... which doesn't change my mind. *People
> who do it that way have more money than brains and restaurants just
> pass their costs to the customer, so it's another case of stupid is as
> stupid does.
>
> --

and this stupid chef taught me the proper way to taste food that is
being cooked. he never pulled any mario shit with the spoonology
method.

> Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Feb 27, 3:31*pm, Gary > wrote:
> Bryan wrote:
>
> > sf wrote:
> > > *Bryan wrote:
> > > > I know you think it's cute, calling mushrooms, "shrooms," but shrooms
> > > > applies to psilocybes, not mushrooms in general.
>
> > > THANK YOU! *I wish you would make this a standard reply to every
> > > stupid/naive poster that calls mushrooms "shrooms" - because it drives
> > > me up the GD wall every time I see the term used inappropriately.
> > > "Whatta putz" isn't even half of what I think.
>
> > I do it pretty frequently, and it drives others up the wall that I *do* do it.
>
> I think you are both being stupid. *Shrooms are mushrooms especially when
> talking about a recipe. *Give me a break. *You druggies didn't coin the
> word.
>
> G.

when i mentioned 'shrooms', i wasn't even thinking about the magic
ones. it's a short form of the word mushroom.

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 08:33:45 +0000, David Rance
> wrote:

> What's the difference between egg noodles and Italian type pasta! I've
> seen Italians make pasta and it consists of flour, eggs and a little
> olive oil - which is the way I make it.
>
> If I google for egg noodles it brings up recipes for pasta!

There are two types of pasta: with egg and without. I'm not sure if
people call them "egg" noodles because they come from a Jewish
background or to actually differentiate between the two types. I
don't... but I'm not allergic to eggs, so I don't care.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 08:31:59 -0500, James Silverton
> wrote:

> On 2/27/2013 11:34 PM, sf wrote:
> > On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 15:10:06 -0800 (PST), Bryan
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> Using shrooms as a short for mushrooms is cutesy and goofball.
> >
> > And druggie
> >
> I can't say I like the stupid word but others (non-druggies) seem to too.

I guess they think it's cute. gag

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On 28/02/2013 9:40 AM, sf wrote:
i>
>> If I google for egg noodles it brings up recipes for pasta!
>
> There are two types of pasta: with egg and without. I'm not sure if
> people call them "egg" noodles because they come from a Jewish
> background or to actually differentiate between the two types. I
> don't... but I'm not allergic to eggs, so I don't care.
>


Pasta without eggs? I have made pasta several times and used different
recipes. They all had egg in them.

On 2/28/2013 9:40 AM, sf wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 08:33:45 +0000, David Rance
> > wrote:
>
>> What's the difference between egg noodles and Italian type pasta! I've
>> seen Italians make pasta and it consists of flour, eggs and a little
>> olive oil - which is the way I make it.
>>
>> If I google for egg noodles it brings up recipes for pasta!
>
> There are two types of pasta: with egg and without. I'm not sure if
> people call them "egg" noodles because they come from a Jewish
> background or to actually differentiate between the two types. I
> don't... but I'm not allergic to eggs, so I don't care.
>
Don't quote me, this could be my imagination. It seems to me "egg
noodles" may contain more egg than other types of pasta.

It could also be perception. I'm talking about dried, not fresh, pasta
now. Yes, there are flat Italian noodles. Linguini, fettucini... They
don't look the same as what we Americans know as "egg noodles" which are
short noodles often used in chicken soup and yes, with Stroganoff. Upon
further thought, I'm thinking German type noodles.

Jill

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 10:23:02 -0500, jmcquown >
wrote:

> On 2/28/2013 9:40 AM, sf wrote:
> > On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 08:33:45 +0000, David Rance
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> What's the difference between egg noodles and Italian type pasta! I've
> >> seen Italians make pasta and it consists of flour, eggs and a little
> >> olive oil - which is the way I make it.
> >>
> >> If I google for egg noodles it brings up recipes for pasta!
> >
> > There are two types of pasta: with egg and without. I'm not sure if
> > people call them "egg" noodles because they come from a Jewish
> > background or to actually differentiate between the two types. I
> > don't... but I'm not allergic to eggs, so I don't care.
> >
> Don't quote me, this could be my imagination. It seems to me "egg
> noodles" may contain more egg than other types of pasta.

No idea.
>
> It could also be perception. I'm talking about dried, not fresh, pasta
> now. Yes, there are flat Italian noodles. Linguini, fettucini... They
> don't look the same as what we Americans know as "egg noodles" which are
> short noodles often used in chicken soup and yes, with Stroganoff. Upon
> further thought, I'm thinking German type noodles.
>
Don't you usually find noodles labeled as egg noodles in the Jewish
food section? That's where I see them.
http://www.manischewitz.com/Noodles/...ES_12oz_sm.jpg
http://www.manischewitz.com/Noodles/...Noodles-sm.jpg

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On 2/28/2013 9:41 AM, sf wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 08:31:59 -0500, James Silverton
> > wrote:
>
>> On 2/27/2013 11:34 PM, sf wrote:
>>> On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 15:10:06 -0800 (PST), Bryan
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Using shrooms as a short for mushrooms is cutesy and goofball.
>>>
>>> And druggie
>>>
>> I can't say I like the stupid word but others (non-druggies) seem to too.
>
> I guess they think it's cute. gag
>
I'm trying not to care who shortcuts words anymore. Shrooms, cukes,
mayo <G>. Taken in context we know what the OP means. Nearly all of us
say "fridge" rather than refrigerator. Who cares?

I'm also trying not to be bothered when notbob (whom I happen to like)
writes as if he suddenly joined the cast of The Beverly Hillbillies

Obvious typos don't require chiding or correction if the word is
understood in context. Typos can, however, be very funny!

Jill

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 06:26:02 -0800 (PST), A Moose in Love
> wrote:

> it's a short form of the word mushroom.

Did your mother encourage baby talk?

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 06:25:06 -0800 (PST), A Moose in Love
> wrote:

> On Feb 27, 12:34*pm, sf > wrote:
> > On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 07:27:30 -0800 (PST), A Moose in Love
> >
> > > wrote:
> > > On Feb 27, 10:18*am, sf > wrote:
> > > > On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 07:12:53 -0500, jmcquown >
> > > > wrote:
> >
> > > > > My mother used tenderloin on the rare occasions she made stroganoff.
> >
> > > > That stuff is too expensive to cut into little pieces, cook until dead
> > > > and cover with cream sauce, AFAIC.
> >
> > > A chef I know, at the hotel where he apprenticed at in Germany, they'd
> > > make stroganoff to order using beef tenderloin. *Google for recipes.
> >
> > No need to, I've seen them... which doesn't change my mind. *People
> > who do it that way have more money than brains and restaurants just
> > pass their costs to the customer, so it's another case of stupid is as
> > stupid does.
> >
> > --
>
> and this stupid chef taught me the proper way to taste food that is
> being cooked. he never pulled any mario shit with the spoonology
> method.
>
Again, you're hopelessly confusing commercial and family cooking
methods.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 11:12:44 -0500, jmcquown >
wrote:

> Nearly all of us say "fridge" rather than refrigerator.

I don't, but I must admit that I have typed it from time to time here
and here only.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On 28/02/2013 14:40, sf wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 08:33:45 +0000, David Rance
> > wrote:
>
>> What's the difference between egg noodles and Italian type pasta! I've
>> seen Italians make pasta and it consists of flour, eggs and a little
>> olive oil - which is the way I make it.
>>
>> If I google for egg noodles it brings up recipes for pasta!
>
> There are two types of pasta: with egg and without. I'm not sure if
> people call them "egg" noodles because they come from a Jewish
> background or to actually differentiate between the two types. I
> don't... but I'm not allergic to eggs, so I don't care.

I've never come across eggless pasta. A quick google tells me that it is
to be found in the Puglia area of Italy (in the south, near the "heel"
of the country), but its use is not all that widespread. Or is it? Pasta
to me is always with egg.

Next time I make pasta I'll have to try leaving out the eggs!

David


--
David Rance writing from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France

On 28/02/2013 15:23, jmcquown wrote:
> On 2/28/2013 9:40 AM, sf wrote:
>> On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 08:33:45 +0000, David Rance
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> What's the difference between egg noodles and Italian type pasta! I've
>>> seen Italians make pasta and it consists of flour, eggs and a little
>>> olive oil - which is the way I make it.
>>>
>>> If I google for egg noodles it brings up recipes for pasta!
>>
>> There are two types of pasta: with egg and without. I'm not sure if
>> people call them "egg" noodles because they come from a Jewish
>> background or to actually differentiate between the two types. I
>> don't... but I'm not allergic to eggs, so I don't care.
>>
> Don't quote me, this could be my imagination. It seems to me "egg
> noodles" may contain more egg than other types of pasta.
>
> It could also be perception. I'm talking about dried, not fresh, pasta
> now. Yes, there are flat Italian noodles. Linguini, fettucini... They
> don't look the same as what we Americans know as "egg noodles" which are
> short noodles often used in chicken soup and yes, with Stroganoff. Upon
> further thought, I'm thinking German type noodles.

Are we talking more about shape now? Seems to me that all pasta is made
up of the same basic ingredients (unless you miss out the egg!).

The only really different noodles that I have experienced are rice
noodles from the Far East.

David

--
David Rance writing from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France

On 2/28/2013 11:12 AM, jmcquown wrote:
> On 2/28/2013 9:41 AM, sf wrote:
>> On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 08:31:59 -0500, James Silverton
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/27/2013 11:34 PM, sf wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 15:10:06 -0800 (PST), Bryan
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Using shrooms as a short for mushrooms is cutesy and goofball.
>>>>
>>>> And druggie
>>>>
>>> I can't say I like the stupid word but others (non-druggies) seem to
>>> too.
>>
>> I guess they think it's cute. gag
>>
> I'm trying not to care who shortcuts words anymore. Shrooms, cukes,
> mayo <G>. Taken in context we know what the OP means. Nearly all of us
> say "fridge" rather than refrigerator. Who cares?
>
> I'm also trying not to be bothered when notbob (whom I happen to like)
> writes as if he suddenly joined the cast of The Beverly Hillbillies
>
> Obvious typos don't require chiding or correction if the word is
> understood in context. Typos can, however, be very funny!
>
Most other shortenings I understand but not "shroom" that I find more
difficult to say than "mushroom". The first time I saw "shroom" was in a
book written by someone in Utah and, to my satisfaction, I have not seen
any evidence of its use where I live.

--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)

Extraneous "not" in Reply To.

On 2/28/2013 11:49 AM, David Rance wrote:
> On 28/02/2013 15:23, jmcquown wrote:
>> On 2/28/2013 9:40 AM, sf wrote:
>>> On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 08:33:45 +0000, David Rance
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> What's the difference between egg noodles and Italian type pasta! I've
>>>> seen Italians make pasta and it consists of flour, eggs and a little
>>>> olive oil - which is the way I make it.
>>>>
>>>> If I google for egg noodles it brings up recipes for pasta!
>>>
>>> There are two types of pasta: with egg and without. I'm not sure if
>>> people call them "egg" noodles because they come from a Jewish
>>> background or to actually differentiate between the two types. I
>>> don't... but I'm not allergic to eggs, so I don't care.
>>>
>> Don't quote me, this could be my imagination. It seems to me "egg
>> noodles" may contain more egg than other types of pasta.
>>
>> It could also be perception. I'm talking about dried, not fresh, pasta
>> now. Yes, there are flat Italian noodles. Linguini, fettucini... They
>> don't look the same as what we Americans know as "egg noodles" which are
>> short noodles often used in chicken soup and yes, with Stroganoff. Upon
>> further thought, I'm thinking German type noodles.
>
> Are we talking more about shape now? Seems to me that all pasta is made
> up of the same basic ingredients (unless you miss out the egg!).
>
> The only really different noodles that I have experienced are rice
> noodles from the Far East.
>
> David
>
The vast majority of the types of dry pasta in my local supermarket are
eggless. The ones with egg are displayed on the same shelves. There's
nothing Jewish or Kosher about them. I'll have to look in the Kosher
section next time to see what they have. They even have some rice
noodles in their "Oriental" section tho' nothing like the varieties in
Chinese grocery stores.

--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)

Extraneous "not" in Reply To.

On 2/28/2013 11:12 AM, sf wrote:
>> It could also be perception. I'm talking about dried, not fresh, pasta
>> >now. Yes, there are flat Italian noodles. Linguini, fettucini... They
>> >don't look the same as what we Americans know as "egg noodles" which are
>> >short noodles often used in chicken soup and yes, with Stroganoff. Upon
>> >further thought, I'm thinking German type noodles.
>> >
> Don't you usually find noodles labeled as egg noodles in the Jewish
> food section? That's where I see them.
> http://www.manischewitz.com/Noodles/...ES_12oz_sm.jpg
> http://www.manischewitz.com/Noodles/...Noodles-sm.jpg

ROFL! I can honestly say I've never seen aisle in any supermarket
singled out to be the "Jewish food section".

Jill

On 2/28/2013 11:39 AM, David Rance wrote:
> On 28/02/2013 14:40, sf wrote:
>> On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 08:33:45 +0000, David Rance
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> What's the difference between egg noodles and Italian type pasta! I've
>>> seen Italians make pasta and it consists of flour, eggs and a little
>>> olive oil - which is the way I make it.
>>>
>>> If I google for egg noodles it brings up recipes for pasta!
>>
>> There are two types of pasta: with egg and without. I'm not sure if
>> people call them "egg" noodles because they come from a Jewish
>> background or to actually differentiate between the two types. I
>> don't... but I'm not allergic to eggs, so I don't care.
>
> I've never come across eggless pasta. A quick google tells me that it is
> to be found in the Puglia area of Italy (in the south, near the "heel"
> of the country), but its use is not all that widespread. Or is it? Pasta
> to me is always with egg.
>
> Next time I make pasta I'll have to try leaving out the eggs!
>
> David
>
>
You'll probably be disappointed.

Jill

On Thursday, February 28, 2013 10:12:44 AM UTC-6, jmcquown wrote:
>
>
> I'm also trying not to be bothered when notbob (whom I happen to like)
>
> writes as if he suddenly joined the cast of The Beverly Hillbillies
>
I love The Beverly Hillbillies.
>
> Jill

--Bryan

On 28/02/2013 17:48, jmcquown wrote:
> On 2/28/2013 11:39 AM, David Rance wrote:
>> On 28/02/2013 14:40, sf wrote:
>>> On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 08:33:45 +0000, David Rance
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> What's the difference between egg noodles and Italian type pasta! I've
>>>> seen Italians make pasta and it consists of flour, eggs and a little
>>>> olive oil - which is the way I make it.
>>>>
>>>> If I google for egg noodles it brings up recipes for pasta!
>>>
>>> There are two types of pasta: with egg and without. I'm not sure if
>>> people call them "egg" noodles because they come from a Jewish
>>> background or to actually differentiate between the two types. I
>>> don't... but I'm not allergic to eggs, so I don't care.
>>
>> I've never come across eggless pasta. A quick google tells me that it is
>> to be found in the Puglia area of Italy (in the south, near the "heel"
>> of the country), but its use is not all that widespread. Or is it? Pasta
>> to me is always with egg.
>>
>> Next time I make pasta I'll have to try leaving out the eggs!
>>
>> David
>>
>>
> You'll probably be disappointed.

I'm prepared! ;-)

David

--
David Rance writing from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France

On 2/28/2013 12:47 PM, jmcquown wrote:
> On 2/28/2013 11:12 AM, sf wrote:
>>> It could also be perception. I'm talking about dried, not fresh, pasta
>>> >now. Yes, there are flat Italian noodles. Linguini, fettucini... They
>>> >don't look the same as what we Americans know as "egg noodles" which
>>> are
>>> >short noodles often used in chicken soup and yes, with Stroganoff.
>>> Upon
>>> >further thought, I'm thinking German type noodles.
>>> >
>> Don't you usually find noodles labeled as egg noodles in the Jewish
>> food section? That's where I see them.
>> http://www.manischewitz.com/Noodles/...ES_12oz_sm.jpg
>>
>> http://www.manischewitz.com/Noodles/...Noodles-sm.jpg
>>
>
> ROFL! I can honestly say I've never seen aisle in any supermarket
> singled out to be the "Jewish food section".
>
> Jill
Not really being concerned about whether things are kosher, I can't
remember what the 20 ft or so of shelving is actually labelled but it's
there and there are usually expanded sections at Passover.

--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)

Extraneous "not" in Reply To.

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:47:25 -0500, jmcquown >
wrote:

> On 2/28/2013 11:12 AM, sf wrote:
> >> It could also be perception. I'm talking about dried, not fresh, pasta
> >> >now. Yes, there are flat Italian noodles. Linguini, fettucini... They
> >> >don't look the same as what we Americans know as "egg noodles" which are
> >> >short noodles often used in chicken soup and yes, with Stroganoff. Upon
> >> >further thought, I'm thinking German type noodles.
> >> >
> > Don't you usually find noodles labeled as egg noodles in the Jewish
> > food section? That's where I see them.
> > http://www.manischewitz.com/Noodles/...ES_12oz_sm.jpg
> > http://www.manischewitz.com/Noodles/...Noodles-sm.jpg
>
> ROFL! I can honestly say I've never seen aisle in any supermarket
> singled out to be the "Jewish food section".

You must have a lot of transplants there then.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On 2/28/2013 12:56 PM, James Silverton wrote:
> On 2/28/2013 12:47 PM, jmcquown wrote:
>> On 2/28/2013 11:12 AM, sf wrote:
>>>> It could also be perception. I'm talking about dried, not fresh, pasta
>>>> >now. Yes, there are flat Italian noodles. Linguini, fettucini...
>>>> They
>>>> >don't look the same as what we Americans know as "egg noodles" which
>>>> are
>>>> >short noodles often used in chicken soup and yes, with Stroganoff.
>>>> Upon
>>>> >further thought, I'm thinking German type noodles.
>>>> >
>>> Don't you usually find noodles labeled as egg noodles in the Jewish
>>> food section? That's where I see them.
>>> http://www.manischewitz.com/Noodles/...ES_12oz_sm.jpg
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.manischewitz.com/Noodles/...Noodles-sm.jpg
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ROFL! I can honestly say I've never seen aisle in any supermarket
>> singled out to be the "Jewish food section".
>>
>> Jill
> Not really being concerned about whether things are kosher, I can't
> remember what the 20 ft or so of shelving is actually labelled but it's
> there and there are usually expanded sections at Passover.
>
All I know is the packaged egg noodles are in the same aisle with other
pasta. Matzo mix is on the shelf next to potato pancake mix. Potato
dumplings are in the frozen aisle next to hush puppies. Some of this is
labelled "ethnic". I've never seen a grocery aisle specifically marked
"Jewish".

Jill

On 2/28/2013 12:32 PM, James Silverton wrote:
> On 2/28/2013 11:49 AM, David Rance wrote:

>> Are we talking more about shape now? Seems to me that all pasta is made
>> up of the same basic ingredients (unless you miss out the egg!).
>>
>> The only really different noodles that I have experienced are rice
>> noodles from the Far East.

> The vast majority of the types of dry pasta in my local supermarket are
> eggless. The ones with egg are displayed on the same shelves. There's
> nothing Jewish or Kosher about them. I'll have to look in the Kosher
> section next time to see what they have. They even have some rice
> noodles in their "Oriental" section tho' nothing like the varieties in
> Chinese grocery stores.

Perhaps they are of German origin, the most common brand I know is
Pennsylvania Dutch.

nancy

David Rance > wrote:

> Victor Sack wrote:
> > David Rance > wrote:
> >>
> >> Not in its origins as it was peasant food. It became known as stroganoff
> >> (it is thought) after it became associated with the Stroganoff family
> >> which gave it a certain dignified association worthy, then, for it to be
> >> included on a restaurant menu.
> >
> > Nonsense. Not only is it not a peasant dish, it is not even Russian in
> > its premise. Traditional Russian meat dishes have always been prepared
> > with a solid piece of meat, almost never cut into small pieces or minced
> > when still raw. In a recent (2011) book "Nepridumanaya istoriya russkoy
> > kukhni" ("Non-invented history of the Russian cuisine"), the authors,
> > Olga and Pavel Syutkin, list most everything that is known or just
> > surmised about Beef Stroganoff, and there is little doubt that it has
> > always been associated with the Stroganoff family and has never had any
> > plausible counterpart in the traditional Russian cuisine.
>
> Well, your sources seem to contradict mine so we shall never agree! ;-)

Well, I do not know what your sources are, but they seem to be
contradicting not just mine, but also logic. Consider that traditional
Russian - particularly peasant - cooking has been all but defined by
the use of the Russian oven. It would be impossible to prepare such a
dish as Beef Stroganoff in the Russian oven.

Victor

Will be forced to agree. I would not waste Tenderloin to put on noodles with cream sauce. In addition to its other bad qualities the stuff is tasteless. Now the fellow who showed me how to make the dish used round steak so thats what I use. Think as was previously mentioned Chuck would have to be the best choice for this project. The CAB version chuck steaks in particular would work well. Often catch them on sale at Tom Thumb (Safeway) Real flavorful and tender enough to pass for a real steak most of the time.

On 2/28/2013 1:15 PM, sf wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:47:25 -0500, jmcquown >
> wrote:
>
>> On 2/28/2013 11:12 AM, sf wrote:
>>>> It could also be perception. I'm talking about dried, not fresh, pasta
>>>>> now. Yes, there are flat Italian noodles. Linguini, fettucini... They
>>>>> don't look the same as what we Americans know as "egg noodles" which are
>>>>> short noodles often used in chicken soup and yes, with Stroganoff. Upon
>>>>> further thought, I'm thinking German type noodles.
>>>>>
>>> Don't you usually find noodles labeled as egg noodles in the Jewish
>>> food section? That's where I see them.
>>> http://www.manischewitz.com/Noodles/...ES_12oz_sm.jpg
>>> http://www.manischewitz.com/Noodles/...Noodles-sm.jpg
>>
>> ROFL! I can honestly say I've never seen aisle in any supermarket
>> singled out to be the "Jewish food section".
>
> You must have a lot of transplants there then.
>
I don't know what that means. Transplants?

Jill

On Feb 28, 11:17*am, sf > wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 06:25:06 -0800 (PST), A Moose in Love
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> > On Feb 27, 12:34*pm, sf > wrote:
> > > On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 07:27:30 -0800 (PST), A Moose in Love
>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > On Feb 27, 10:18*am, sf > wrote:
> > > > > On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 07:12:53 -0500, jmcquown >
> > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > My mother used tenderloin on the rare occasions she made stroganoff.
>
> > > > > That stuff is too expensive to cut into little pieces, cook until dead
> > > > > and cover with cream sauce, AFAIC.
>
> > > > A chef I know, at the hotel where he apprenticed at in Germany, they'd
> > > > make stroganoff to order using beef tenderloin. *Google for recipes.
>
> > > No need to, I've seen them... which doesn't change my mind. *People
> > > who do it that way have more money than brains and restaurants just
> > > pass their costs to the customer, so it's another case of stupid is as
> > > stupid does.
>
> > > --
>
> > and this stupid chef taught me the proper way to taste food that is
> > being cooked. *he never pulled any mario shit with the spoonology
> > method.
>
> Again, you're hopelessly confusing commercial and family cooking
> methods.

We never ate that way at our house. But then we used common sense
when it came to cleanliness. Did you eat out of the same pot, or
could your family afford bowls?

On 2/28/2013 1:15 PM, sf wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:47:25 -0500, jmcquown >
> wrote:
>
>> On 2/28/2013 11:12 AM, sf wrote:
>>>> It could also be perception. I'm talking about dried, not fresh, pasta
>>>>> now. Yes, there are flat Italian noodles. Linguini, fettucini... They
>>>>> don't look the same as what we Americans know as "egg noodles" which are
>>>>> short noodles often used in chicken soup and yes, with Stroganoff. Upon
>>>>> further thought, I'm thinking German type noodles.
>>>>>
>>> Don't you usually find noodles labeled as egg noodles in the Jewish
>>> food section? That's where I see them.
>>> http://www.manischewitz.com/Noodles/...ES_12oz_sm.jpg
>>> http://www.manischewitz.com/Noodles/...Noodles-sm.jpg
>>
>> ROFL! I can honestly say I've never seen aisle in any supermarket
>> singled out to be the "Jewish food section".
>
> You must have a lot of transplants there then.
>
This is the sort of dried egg noodles I'm talking about for Stroganoff:

http://www.muellerspasta.com/product...oodles-wide-mu

Jill

On Fri, 01 Mar 2013 05:02:17 -0500, jmcquown >
wrote:

> On 2/28/2013 1:15 PM, sf wrote:
> > On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:47:25 -0500, jmcquown >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On 2/28/2013 11:12 AM, sf wrote:
> >>>> It could also be perception. I'm talking about dried, not fresh, pasta
> >>>>> now. Yes, there are flat Italian noodles. Linguini, fettucini... They
> >>>>> don't look the same as what we Americans know as "egg noodles" which are
> >>>>> short noodles often used in chicken soup and yes, with Stroganoff. Upon
> >>>>> further thought, I'm thinking German type noodles.
> >>>>>
> >>> Don't you usually find noodles labeled as egg noodles in the Jewish
> >>> food section? That's where I see them.
> >>> http://www.manischewitz.com/Noodles/...ES_12oz_sm.jpg
> >>> http://www.manischewitz.com/Noodles/...Noodles-sm.jpg
> >>
> >> ROFL! I can honestly say I've never seen aisle in any supermarket
> >> singled out to be the "Jewish food section".
> >
> > You must have a lot of transplants there then.
> >
> I don't know what that means. Transplants?
>
Transplants are people who weren't raised there, what else could it
be? I'm a transplant from the Midwest to the West Coast. What do you
call them? Snowbirds? Retirees from NYC, Jersey? I'm thinking that
there must be a mainly Jewish community around you and all the grocery
stores you shop at must cater to their religious practices if there is
no special section. Either that or there isn't a significant enough
number of Jewish residents with special food requests to warrant it.

I'm still marveling that you really see Manischewitz egg noodles mixed
in with the Barilla. Kosher foods are kept separate here, as well as
some Asian and Hispanic - to make them easier to find quickly. Where
do you see matzo/matzah or gefilte fish? They are in a special
section here, not mixed in with everyday crackers or the tuna fish.
Refried beans, bottled salsa and canned chilies are in the Hispanic
(aka: Mexican) section. Soy sauce, hoisin and green curry sauce are
in the Asian section. That's how it's done here and every large store
I've ever shopped in. It's been that way for a long time. They even
had those sections in the bigger grocery store we shopped at when I
was a kid living in rural Michigan.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Fri, 01 Mar 2013 06:25:25 -0500, jmcquown >
wrote:
> >
> This is the sort of dried egg noodles I'm talking about for Stroganoff:
>
> http://www.muellerspasta.com/product...oodles-wide-mu
>

The noodles I use look like this
http://www.flickr.com/photos/smitten...7830/lightbox/
I don't call them "soup" noodles or "egg" noodles, they are wide
noodles. Your link also calls your example "wide". AFAIC, egg is on
the front of the package so people like Julie don't have to pick it up
and scan the ingredient list to see if they're in there.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Fri, 1 Mar 2013 03:10:44 -0800 (PST), A Moose in Love
> wrote:

> On Feb 28, 11:17*am, sf > wrote:
> > On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 06:25:06 -0800 (PST), A Moose in Love
> >
> > > and this stupid chef taught me the proper way to taste food that is
> > > being cooked. *he never pulled any mario shit with the spoonology
> > > method.
> >
> > Again, you're hopelessly confusing commercial and family cooking
> > methods.
>
> We never ate that way at our house. But then we used common sense
> when it came to cleanliness. Did you eat out of the same pot, or
> could your family afford bowls?

People do plop a pot in the middle of the table and gather around the
family trough thinking it's all fine and normal - as has been
discussed here many, many times here. I bet that's even how you
"serve" your meals. Do I think THAT'S okay? No. It makes my stomach
turn as much as your so called aversion to friends or family sharing a
sip off the same spoon.


--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 Victor Sack wrote:

>David Rance > wrote:
>
>> Victor Sack wrote:
>> > David Rance > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Not in its origins as it was peasant food. It became known as stroganoff
>> >> (it is thought) after it became associated with the Stroganoff family
>> >> which gave it a certain dignified association worthy, then, for it to be
>> >> included on a restaurant menu.
>> >
>> > Nonsense. Not only is it not a peasant dish, it is not even Russian in
>> > its premise. Traditional Russian meat dishes have always been prepared
>> > with a solid piece of meat, almost never cut into small pieces or minced
>> > when still raw. In a recent (2011) book "Nepridumanaya istoriya russkoy
>> > kukhni" ("Non-invented history of the Russian cuisine"), the authors,
>> > Olga and Pavel Syutkin, list most everything that is known or just
>> > surmised about Beef Stroganoff, and there is little doubt that it has
>> > always been associated with the Stroganoff family and has never had any
>> > plausible counterpart in the traditional Russian cuisine.
>>
>> Well, your sources seem to contradict mine so we shall never agree! ;-)
>
>Well, I do not know what your sources are, but they seem to be
>contradicting not just mine, but also logic. Consider that traditional
>Russian - particularly peasant - cooking has been all but defined by
>the use of the Russian oven. It would be impossible to prepare such a
>dish as Beef Stroganoff in the Russian oven.

Why so? It is known that mushrooms in sour cream were cooked in a
Russian oven. What's the difference with "stroganoff" to make it
impossible.

David

--
David Rance writing from Caversham, Reading, UK

David Rance > wrote:

> On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 Victor Sack wrote:
> >
> >Well, I do not know what your sources are, but they seem to be
> >contradicting not just mine, but also logic. Consider that traditional
> >Russian - particularly peasant - cooking has been all but defined by
> >the use of the Russian oven. It would be impossible to prepare such a
> >dish as Beef Stroganoff in the Russian oven.
>
> Why so? It is known that mushrooms in sour cream were cooked in a
> Russian oven. What's the difference with "stroganoff" to make it
> impossible.

Because one of the first - and essential - steps in cooking Beef
Stroganoff is a quick browning/searing of the small pieces of meat over
high heat. In the everyday cooking, this step can, in practice, only be
made on the stove top. Russian oven is suitable mostly for preparing
slowly-cooked food and multi-stage affairs are completely foreign to
this way of cooking.

Victor

On Sat, 2 Mar 2013 Victor Sack wrote:

>David Rance > wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 Victor Sack wrote:
>> >
>> >Well, I do not know what your sources are, but they seem to be
>> >contradicting not just mine, but also logic. Consider that traditional
>> >Russian - particularly peasant - cooking has been all but defined by
>> >the use of the Russian oven. It would be impossible to prepare such a
>> >dish as Beef Stroganoff in the Russian oven.
>>
>> Why so? It is known that mushrooms in sour cream were cooked in a
>> Russian oven. What's the difference with "stroganoff" to make it
>> impossible.
>
>Because one of the first - and essential - steps in cooking Beef
>Stroganoff is a quick browning/searing of the small pieces of meat over
>high heat. In the everyday cooking, this step can, in practice, only be
>made on the stove top. Russian oven is suitable mostly for preparing
>slowly-cooked food and multi-stage affairs are completely foreign to
>this way of cooking.

Yes, quite, and slow cooking is the way of cooking tough cuts of meat
which peasant meat undoubtedly was.

David

--
David Rance writing from Caversham, Reading, UK

On Sat, 2 Mar 2013 Victor Sack wrote:

>David Rance > wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 Victor Sack wrote:
>> >
>> >Well, I do not know what your sources are, but they seem to be
>> >contradicting not just mine, but also logic. Consider that traditional
>> >Russian - particularly peasant - cooking has been all but defined by
>> >the use of the Russian oven. It would be impossible to prepare such a
>> >dish as Beef Stroganoff in the Russian oven.
>>
>> Why so? It is known that mushrooms in sour cream were cooked in a
>> Russian oven. What's the difference with "stroganoff" to make it
>> impossible.
>
>Because one of the first - and essential - steps in cooking Beef
>Stroganoff is a quick browning/searing of the small pieces of meat over
>high heat.

I meant to reply to this as well.

Why is it essential to sear the meat? It is a fallacy that searing
prevents the loss of moisture. However it *does* add to the flavour due
to the Maillard reaction but this isn't necessary if the meat is cooked
slowly in sour cream as that, plus mushrooms and garlic, will give
flavour. When I cook a stroganoff I have never seared the meat and I've
never had any complaints about lack of flavour!

> In the everyday cooking, this step can, in practice, only be
>made on the stove top. Russian oven is suitable mostly for preparing
>slowly-cooked food and multi-stage affairs are completely foreign to
>this way of cooking.

What I have said all along is that the dish now called stroganoff had
its origins in peasant food. The stroganoff of fine cuisine will not be
like the peasant original, but the peasant original will have the same
basic ingredients, that is, beef, mushrooms, garlic and sour cream which
were all readily available and which can all be cooked slowly.

David

--
David Rance writing from Caversham, Reading, UK