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General Cooking (rec.food.cooking) For general food and cooking discussion. Foods of all kinds, food procurement, cooking methods and techniques, eating, etc. |
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On Feb 27, 2:34*am, sf > wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 15:24:13 -0800 (PST), Bryan > > > wrote: > > I know you think it's cute, calling mushrooms, "shrooms," but shrooms > > applies to psilocybes, not mushrooms in general. > > THANK YOU! *I wish you would make this a standard reply to every > stupid/naive poster that calls mushrooms "shrooms" - because it drives > me up the GD wall every time I see the term used inappropriately. > "Whatta putz" isn't even half of what I think. > Think what you will. When I worked in the restaurant/hotel industry we referred the mushrooms as shrooms. Not always, but sometimes. The term isn't used inappropriately. Eat any cukes lately? > -- > Food is an important part of a balanced diet. |
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On 2/27/2013 8:15 AM, James Silverton wrote:
>> I should have said that it is traditionally eaten with boiled rice. It's >> a Russian dish, not Italian - so not pasta! >> > > Perhaps, you are right but I've always eaten it with noodles. > Same here, Jim. Egg noodles. But according to Wiki: "After the fall of Imperial Russia, the recipe was popularly served in the hotels and restaurants of China before the start of the Second World War." That explains the rice part! ![]() "Russian and Chinese immigrants, as well as U.S. servicemen stationed in pre-Communist China, brought several variants of the dish to the United States, which may account for its popularity during the 1950s. It came to Hong Kong in the late fifties, with Russian restaurants and hotels serving the dish with rice, but not sour cream. In the version often prepared in the USA today in restaurants and hotels, it consists of strips of beef filet with a mushroom, onion, and sour cream sauce, and is served over rice or pasta." Jill |
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On 2/27/2013 8:50 AM, A Moose in Love wrote:
> On Feb 26, 6:00 pm, Janet Bostwick > wrote: >> On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 14:35:30 -0800, "Paul M. Cook" > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> "A Moose in Love" > wrote in message >>> ... >>>> My uncle is getting guests from the old world in March, and wants me >>>> to make a beef stroganoff. What are your favourite recipes? I've >>>> never used a strict recipe to make it, but this time I will. And yes >>>> I could google, but I would like opinions of the people here. >> >>> I sauté diced shallots and garlic in olive oil and remove to bowl, Then I >>> dredge beef in flour and salt and brown in the same pan - brown - as in >>> brown not beige. Then I remove the meat, deglaze with white wine, reduce, >>> add back the onions and garlic, add paprika to taste, sliced mushrooms and >>> consommé. Cook until all the tasty bits are dissolved. Add back the meat >>> and continue to slowly braise, cover to rertain moisture. When meat is >>> tender reduce by more than 50% to make a thick mixture. Incorporate sour >>> cream just before serving. >> >> This is the recipe that I would choose. >> Janet US > > That looks pretty good. How much Paprika? If you use a Tbsp. per > pound of meat would that be too much. It might get kind of goulashy. > Paprika (like cinnamon) should be used with some discretion. IMHO. Jill |
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Woops ok..add mushrooms. I forgot that part..lol. Throw them in with the meat and onions.
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On 2/27/2013 9:00 AM, jmcquown wrote:
> On 2/27/2013 8:50 AM, A Moose in Love wrote: >> On Feb 26, 6:00 pm, Janet Bostwick > wrote: >>> On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 14:35:30 -0800, "Paul M. Cook" > >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> "A Moose in Love" > wrote in message >>>> ... >>>> >>>>> My uncle is getting guests from the old world in March, and wants me >>>>> to make a beef stroganoff. What are your favourite recipes? I've >>>>> never used a strict recipe to make it, but this time I will. And yes >>>>> I could google, but I would like opinions of the people here. >>> >>>> I sauté diced shallots and garlic in olive oil and remove to bowl, >>>> Then I >>>> dredge beef in flour and salt and brown in the same pan - brown - as in >>>> brown not beige. Then I remove the meat, deglaze with white wine, >>>> reduce, >>>> add back the onions and garlic, add paprika to taste, sliced >>>> mushrooms and >>>> consommé. Cook until all the tasty bits are dissolved. Add back >>>> the meat >>>> and continue to slowly braise, cover to rertain moisture. When meat is >>>> tender reduce by more than 50% to make a thick mixture. Incorporate >>>> sour >>>> cream just before serving. >>> >>> This is the recipe that I would choose. >>> Janet US >> >> That looks pretty good. How much Paprika? If you use a Tbsp. per >> pound of meat would that be too much. It might get kind of goulashy. >> > Paprika (like cinnamon) should be used with some discretion. IMHO. > Paprika comes in several degrees of hotness. "Pride of Szeged Hot" really is hot. -- Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD) Extraneous "not" in Reply To. |
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On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 23:28:47 -0800, sf > wrote:
>On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 13:20:44 -0800 (PST), A Moose in Love > wrote: > >> In my opinion, a stroganoff without mushrooms is not a >> stroganoff. That's what I've learned anyway. I suppose that the >> original classic stroganoff was made without shrooms. > >Who cares? Find one you like and add mushrooms if they aren't already >included. ![]() 'Stroganoff' is another one of my quick and dirty, cheating, because of no time recipes. (we put it over one of those big baked potatoes like Sheldon pictured the other day) I won't tell my recipe because the purists will go nuts. ;o) Janet US |
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On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 05:54:01 -0800 (PST), A Moose in Love
> wrote: > Eat any cukes lately? No. -- Food is an important part of a balanced diet. |
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On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 08:15:23 -0500, James Silverton
> wrote: > Perhaps, you are right but I've always eaten it with noodles. Me too. It wouldn't be right with rice, same with chicken paprikash. -- Food is an important part of a balanced diet. |
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On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 08:58:05 -0500, jmcquown >
wrote: > In the version often > prepared in the USA today in restaurants and hotels, it consists of > strips of beef filet with a mushroom, onion, and sour cream sauce, and > is served over rice or pasta." What restaurants serve it? I can't recall ever seeing it on any menu. -- Food is an important part of a balanced diet. |
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![]() "Janet Bostwick" > wrote in message ... > On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 23:28:47 -0800, sf > wrote: > >>On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 13:20:44 -0800 (PST), A Moose in Love > wrote: >> >>> In my opinion, a stroganoff without mushrooms is not a >>> stroganoff. That's what I've learned anyway. I suppose that the >>> original classic stroganoff was made without shrooms. >> >>Who cares? Find one you like and add mushrooms if they aren't already >>included. ![]() > > 'Stroganoff' is another one of my quick and dirty, cheating, because > of no time recipes. (we put it over one of those big baked potatoes > like Sheldon pictured the other day) I won't tell my recipe because > the purists will go nuts. ;o) Oh please do ![]() make things ![]() -- http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/ |
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On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 07:12:53 -0500, jmcquown >
wrote: > My mother used tenderloin on the rare occasions she made stroganoff. That stuff is too expensive to cut into little pieces, cook until dead and cover with cream sauce, AFAIC. -- Food is an important part of a balanced diet. |
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On 27/02/2013 15:12, sf wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 08:15:23 -0500, James Silverton > > wrote: > >> Perhaps, you are right but I've always eaten it with noodles. > > Me too. It wouldn't be right with rice, same with chicken paprikash. I suppose it's what you're used to. I always do couscous with a lamb tagine but I guess that others may well have rice or pasta with it. David -- David Rance writing from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France |
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On Feb 27, 3:23*am, David Rance > wrote:
> > What is round steak? Is it what we Brits call fillet steak (which is > what I use for stroganoff)? > > David Round steak is composed of three different muscles. Top round, bottom round, and eye of round. The top round is the most tender, although it's still kind of tough. Certain areas of the eye of round are edible if you dry cook them as a steak, while others are very tough. You'll be chewing till the cows come home. The complete round comes off of the hind quarter of the beast. It is behind the top sirloin, strip loin, and bottom sirloin. aka the rump of the animal. |
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On Feb 27, 10:18*am, sf > wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 07:12:53 -0500, jmcquown > > wrote: > > > My mother used tenderloin on the rare occasions she made stroganoff. > > That stuff is too expensive to cut into little pieces, cook until dead > and cover with cream sauce, AFAIC. > A chef I know, at the hotel where he apprenticed at in Germany, they'd make stroganoff to order using beef tenderloin. Google for recipes. > -- > Food is an important part of a balanced diet. |
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On 2/27/2013 8:53 AM, Janet Bostwick wrote:
> 'Stroganoff' is another one of my quick and dirty, cheating, because > of no time recipes. (we put it over one of those big baked potatoes > like Sheldon pictured the other day) I won't tell my recipe because > the purists will go nuts. ;o) > Janet US Mine would make the purist's heads explode. It includes a can of Cream of Mushroom soup! (haven't made it in years... the next time I find a good deal in the old meat bin I might give it a try) George L |
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On 27/02/2013 13:58, jmcquown wrote:
> On 2/27/2013 8:15 AM, James Silverton wrote: >>> I should have said that it is traditionally eaten with boiled rice. It's >>> a Russian dish, not Italian - so not pasta! >> >> Perhaps, you are right but I've always eaten it with noodles. >> > Same here, Jim. Egg noodles. But according to Wiki: > > "After the fall of Imperial Russia, the recipe was popularly served in > the hotels and restaurants of China before the start of the Second World > War." > > That explains the rice part! ![]() You may well be right. I first came across stroganoff in an English restaurant around forty-five years ago and my version of the dish was an attempt to re-create what I had then. I remarried just over thirty years ago and, to impress my new wife and her parents, I cooked a stroganoff. My mother-in-law asked for some bread so that she could wipe the remaining sauce from the cooking pan to eat it! I think it made a hit! When I read up about it then (no Internet or Google in those days) I discovered that it originated in Russia and was a poor person's dish, especially out in the villages where the ingredients would have been cheap and easily obtained and it was often accompanied with borsch or sour cabbage. I've never dared go that far! David -- David Rance writing from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France |
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![]() "A Moose in Love" > wrote in message ... On Feb 26, 6:00 pm, Janet Bostwick > wrote: > On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 14:35:30 -0800, "Paul M. Cook" > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > >"A Moose in Love" > wrote in message > ... > >> My uncle is getting guests from the old world in March, and wants me > >> to make a beef stroganoff. What are your favourite recipes? I've > >> never used a strict recipe to make it, but this time I will. And yes > >> I could google, but I would like opinions of the people here. > > >I sauté diced shallots and garlic in olive oil and remove to bowl, Then I > >dredge beef in flour and salt and brown in the same pan - brown - as in > >brown not beige. Then I remove the meat, deglaze with white wine, reduce, > >add back the onions and garlic, add paprika to taste, sliced mushrooms > >and > >consommé. Cook until all the tasty bits are dissolved. Add back the meat > >and continue to slowly braise, cover to rertain moisture. When meat is > >tender reduce by more than 50% to make a thick mixture. Incorporate sour > >cream just before serving. > > This is the recipe that I would choose. > Janet US That looks pretty good. How much Paprika? If you use a Tbsp. per pound of meat would that be too much. It might get kind of goulashy. I use two tablespoons with two pounds of meat. |
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On Tuesday, February 26, 2013 6:07:07 AM UTC-8, A Moose in Love wrote:
> My uncle is getting guests from the old world in March, and wants me > to make a beef stroganoff. What are your favourite recipes? Especially for guests I recommend you use a good, tender piece of beef. True, there are many versions that use a tough cut because it's cheaper but they are work-arounds, not necessarily for quality purposes. At heart, beef stroganoff is a tableside showpiece of tender beef, mushrooms, wine and sour cream. It's celebratory, not a cost-saving dish. -aem |
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On Wednesday, February 27, 2013 1:34:58 AM UTC-6, sf wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 15:24:13 -0800 (PST), Bryan > > > wrote: > > > > > I know you think it's cute, calling mushrooms, "shrooms," but shrooms > > > applies to psilocybes, not mushrooms in general. > > > > THANK YOU! I wish you would make this a standard reply to every > > stupid/naive poster that calls mushrooms "shrooms" - because it drives > > me up the GD wall every time I see the term used inappropriately. > > "Whatta putz" isn't even half of what I think. > I do it pretty frequently, and it drives others up the wall that I *do* do it. --Bryan |
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On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 07:27:30 -0800 (PST), A Moose in Love
> wrote: > On Feb 27, 10:18*am, sf > wrote: > > On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 07:12:53 -0500, jmcquown > > > wrote: > > > > > My mother used tenderloin on the rare occasions she made stroganoff. > > > > That stuff is too expensive to cut into little pieces, cook until dead > > and cover with cream sauce, AFAIC. > > > > A chef I know, at the hotel where he apprenticed at in Germany, they'd > make stroganoff to order using beef tenderloin. Google for recipes. > No need to, I've seen them... which doesn't change my mind. People who do it that way have more money than brains and restaurants just pass their costs to the customer, so it's another case of stupid is as stupid does. -- Food is an important part of a balanced diet. |
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Bryan wrote:
> > sf wrote: > > Bryan wrote: > > > I know you think it's cute, calling mushrooms, "shrooms," but shrooms > > > applies to psilocybes, not mushrooms in general. > > > > THANK YOU! I wish you would make this a standard reply to every > > stupid/naive poster that calls mushrooms "shrooms" - because it drives > > me up the GD wall every time I see the term used inappropriately. > > "Whatta putz" isn't even half of what I think. > > > I do it pretty frequently, and it drives others up the wall that I *do* do it. I think you are both being stupid. Shrooms are mushrooms especially when talking about a recipe. Give me a break. You druggies didn't coin the word. G. |
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Gary wrote:
> Shrooms are mushrooms especially when talking about a recipe. FYI, Gawwy, "especially" is not a synonym for "except". |
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"George M. Middius" wrote:
> > Gary wrote: > > > Shrooms are mushrooms especially when talking about a recipe. > > FYI, Gawwy, "especially" is not a synonym for "except". And I didn't mean it to be a synonym, Georgie-Porge ![]() |
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David Rance > wrote:
> I should have said that it is traditionally eaten with boiled rice. It's > a Russian dish, not Italian - so not pasta! The first published recipe for Beef Stroganoff (1871) did not specify any accompaniments or side dishes. Later recipes, from cookbooks aimed at professionals (Beef Stroganoff has always been primarily a restaurant dish in Russia), nearly always specified deep-fried potatoes, potato croquettes or boiled and then roasted potatoes. The same cookbooks listed chips (french-fried potatoes) and potato straws under "deep-fried potatoes". BTW, people who want mushrooms and/or paprika in their Beef Stroganoff ought to think more on the lines of Zürcher Geschnetzeltes, or of paprikás or tokány. Victor |
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Gary wrote:
> > > Shrooms are mushrooms especially when talking about a recipe. > > > > FYI, Gawwy, "especially" is not a synonym for "except". > > And I didn't mean it to be a synonym, Georgie-Porge ![]() Now you have to go look up "synonym". Jeesh. |
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On Wednesday, February 27, 2013 3:48:27 PM UTC-5, George M. Middius wrote:
> Gary wrote: > > > > > Shrooms are mushrooms especially when talking about a recipe. > > > > FYI, Gawwy, "especially" is not a synonym for "except". God, you're an idiot. |
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On Wednesday, February 27, 2013 4:20:09 PM UTC-5, George M. Middius wrote:
> Gary wrote: > > > > > > > Shrooms are mushrooms especially when talking about a recipe. > > > > > > > > FYI, Gawwy, "especially" is not a synonym for "except". > > > > > > And I didn't mean it to be a synonym, Georgie-Porge ![]() > > > > Now you have to go look up "synonym". Jeesh. Now you're even more stupid than I realized. |
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On 27/02/2013 21:15, Victor Sack wrote:
> David Rance > wrote: > >> I should have said that it is traditionally eaten with boiled rice. It's >> a Russian dish, not Italian - so not pasta! > > The first published recipe for Beef Stroganoff (1871) did not specify any accompaniments or side dishes. You are partly right though your date for the first published recipe is not. It first appeared in 1861 in a Russian cookbook by Elena Molokhovets. > (Beef Stroganoff has always been primarily a restaurant dish in Russia) Not in its origins as it was peasant food. It became known as stroganoff (it is thought) after it became associated with the Stroganoff family which gave it a certain dignified association worthy, then, for it to be included on a restaurant menu. David -- David Rance writing from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France |
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On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 22:15:16 +0100, (Victor Sack)
wrote: > BTW, people who want mushrooms and/or paprika in their Beef Stroganoff > ought to think more on the lines of Zürcher Geschnetzeltes, or of > paprikás or tokány. I like mushrooms, so thanks for the suggestions. -- Food is an important part of a balanced diet. |
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David Rance > wrote:
> Victor Sack wrote: > > The first published recipe for Beef Stroganoff (1871) did not specify > any accompaniments or side dishes. > > You are partly right though your date for the first published recipe is > not. It first appeared in 1861 in a Russian cookbook by Elena Molokhovets. Incorrect, and I have also made this mistake before. The first edition of the book appeared in 1861, but the recipe was first included in the 1871 edition. > > (Beef Stroganoff has always been primarily a restaurant dish in Russia) > > Not in its origins as it was peasant food. It became known as stroganoff > (it is thought) after it became associated with the Stroganoff family > which gave it a certain dignified association worthy, then, for it to be > included on a restaurant menu. Nonsense. Not only is it not a peasant dish, it is not even Russian in its premise. Traditional Russian meat dishes have always been prepared with a solid piece of meat, almost never cut into small pieces or minced when still raw. In a recent (2011) book "Nepridumanaya istoriya russkoy kukhni" ("Non-invented history of the Russian cuisine"), the authors, Olga and Pavel Syutkin, list most everything that is known or just surmised about Beef Stroganoff, and there is little doubt that it has always been associated with the Stroganoff family and has never had any plausible counterpart in the traditional Russian cuisine. Victor |
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On Wednesday, February 27, 2013 2:31:57 PM UTC-6, Gary wrote:
> Bryan wrote: > > > > > > sf wrote: > > > > > > Bryan wrote: > > > > > I know you think it's cute, calling mushrooms, "shrooms," but shrooms > > > > > applies to psilocybes, not mushrooms in general. > > > > > > > > THANK YOU! I wish you would make this a standard reply to every > > > > stupid/naive poster that calls mushrooms "shrooms" - because it drives > > > > me up the GD wall every time I see the term used inappropriately. > > > > "Whatta putz" isn't even half of what I think. > > > > > > > I do it pretty frequently, and it drives others up the wall that I *do* do it. > > > > I think you are both being stupid. Shrooms are mushrooms especially when > > talking about a recipe. Give me a break. You druggies didn't coin the > > word. > Using shrooms as a short for mushrooms is cutesy and goofball. > > G. --Bryan |
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On 2/27/2013 10:14 AM, sf wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 08:58:05 -0500, jmcquown > > wrote: > >> In the version often >> prepared in the USA today in restaurants and hotels, it consists of >> strips of beef filet with a mushroom, onion, and sour cream sauce, and >> is served over rice or pasta." > > What restaurants serve it? I can't recall ever seeing it on any menu. > Don't ask me, I was just quoting Wikipedia. I don't know what restaurants might serve stroganoff! Jill |
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On 27/02/2013 8:15 AM, James Silverton wrote:
>> >> I should have said that it is traditionally eaten with boiled rice. It's >> a Russian dish, not Italian - so not pasta! >> > > Perhaps, you are right but I've always eaten it with noodles. > Me too. But egg noodles, which are typically used in Germany and Eastern Europe, not Italian type pasta. |
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On 2/27/2013 10:18 AM, sf wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 07:12:53 -0500, jmcquown > > wrote: > >> My mother used tenderloin on the rare occasions she made stroganoff. > > That stuff is too expensive to cut into little pieces, cook until dead > and cover with cream sauce, AFAIC. > I *did* say she rarely made it. The first time I recall was when we lived in Virginia. My aunt and uncle lived nearby in Maryland and would visit occasionally. (This was in the 1960's so I have no idea what the price of beef tenderloin would have been.) I do know my aunt was (still is, at age 91) a very good cook. Mom was probably trying to make an impression. Jill |
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On 27/02/2013 6:28 PM, jmcquown wrote:
> On 2/27/2013 10:18 AM, sf wrote: >> On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 07:12:53 -0500, jmcquown > >> wrote: >> >>> My mother used tenderloin on the rare occasions she made stroganoff. >> >> That stuff is too expensive to cut into little pieces, cook until dead >> and cover with cream sauce, AFAIC. >> > I *did* say she rarely made it. The first time I recall was when we > lived in Virginia. My aunt and uncle lived nearby in Maryland and would > visit occasionally. (This was in the 1960's so I have no idea what the > price of beef tenderloin would have been.) I do know my aunt was (still > is, at age 91) a very good cook. Mom was probably trying to make an > impression. > My mother always made it with sirloin. |
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On 2/27/2013 6:28 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 27/02/2013 6:28 PM, jmcquown wrote: >> On 2/27/2013 10:18 AM, sf wrote: >>> On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 07:12:53 -0500, jmcquown > >>> wrote: >>> >>>> My mother used tenderloin on the rare occasions she made stroganoff. >>> >>> That stuff is too expensive to cut into little pieces, cook until dead >>> and cover with cream sauce, AFAIC. >>> >> I *did* say she rarely made it. The first time I recall was when we >> lived in Virginia. My aunt and uncle lived nearby in Maryland and would >> visit occasionally. (This was in the 1960's so I have no idea what the >> price of beef tenderloin would have been.) I do know my aunt was (still >> is, at age 91) a very good cook. Mom was probably trying to make an >> impression. >> > My mother always made it with sirloin. > <shrug> I use round steak. Mom probably did later on, too. But I've got her handwritten recipe and it says tenderloin. Jill |
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On Wednesday, February 27, 2013 2:48:27 PM UTC-6, George M. Middius wrote:
> Gary wrote: > > > > > Shrooms are mushrooms especially when talking about a recipe. > > > > FYI, Gawwy, "especially" is not a synonym for "except". There was this guy who I used to drink beer with who used cutesy names for everything he could. He and I both had a class (not together), then an hour off, then we were in the same zoology class. Before class, we'd go each buy a 40 of Milwaukee's Best, and drink it at the nearby park. This guy never said McDonald's. It was always "Mickey D's." He was into cars, and a Mustang was always a "Stang," and a Buick Riviera was a "Rivvie." He thought it was really cool that when I was about 6, my family had briefly owned a 1963 Riviera. We had pretty much nothing in common except we both liked drinking a 40 oz. Milwaukee's Best before Professor Karleskint's Zoology class. You can bet your ass he always used "shrooms" to refer to any kind of mushroom. He said, "Dude," a lot too. --Bryan |
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On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 15:10:06 -0800 (PST), Bryan
> wrote: > Using shrooms as a short for mushrooms is cutesy and goofball. And druggie -- Food is an important part of a balanced diet. |
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On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 18:28:06 -0500, jmcquown >
wrote: > On 2/27/2013 10:18 AM, sf wrote: > > On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 07:12:53 -0500, jmcquown > > > wrote: > > > >> My mother used tenderloin on the rare occasions she made stroganoff. > > > > That stuff is too expensive to cut into little pieces, cook until dead > > and cover with cream sauce, AFAIC. > > > I *did* say she rarely made it. I wasn't referring to your mother, just in general - because a lot of living people here seem to think it's okay to do it that way... more money than brains, IMO. -- Food is an important part of a balanced diet. |
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