General Cooking (rec.food.cooking) For general food and cooking discussion. Foods of all kinds, food procurement, cooking methods and techniques, eating, etc.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 28-01-2004, 07:33 PM
Katra
 
Posts: n/a
Default Low carb diet and heart disease...

For the up-to-date-on-nutrition challenged, I offer the following links:

http://heartdisease.about.com/cs/ris...Atkinsvind.htm

http://thecompounder.com/AtkinsVindicated.html

http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/conte...26/7400/1166-h

There are far more available for those that want to google it...

Thing is, new evidence shows how a low fat, high carb diet is killing
people. I've known several myself that went on that type of diet at the
recommendation of their personal physicians that ended up having to go
on statins (which are very hard on the liver) because the diet changes
DID NOT WORK!!!

is it so hard to believe that the original theories were just plain
wrong? And the current crop of Doctors were trained that way, so they
are going to continue to promote it. Sad.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/...ets020719.html

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/health/ed..._badcarbs.html

I like this link as it stresses starch carbs vs. "green" carbs.
One reason I prefer the greenwich diet over Atkins. I'm not a high fat
fan, (since calories still count) but eggs only have 5 grams each and
you need up to 25 grams per day to maintain skin health. Eggs are also
very rich in trace minerals which are difficult to get in a regular diet.

http://www.familyhaven.com/health/mineral.html

The thing with plants and trace minerals is if they are lacking in the
soil, they will NOT be in the food that is supposed to have them
according to most nutritional charts. The vast majority of commercial
farming is now done in depleted soils using commercial fertilizers that
contain just enough nutrients to get the plants to grow! This is the
major reason why organic veggies really are more nutritious than
non-organic.

http://www.mofga.org/food.html

Eggs are your freind, bread is your enemy.
It's hard to give it up. Very hard, but i finally did it.
At least most of the time. G It's been relegated to "treat" status...

K.

--
Sprout the Mung Bean to reply...

,,Cat's Haven Hobby ,,

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...user id=katra

  #2 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 28-01-2004, 10:43 PM
Anthony
 
Posts: n/a
Default Low carb diet and heart disease...


"Katra" wrote in message news:KatraMungBean-

Eggs are your freind, bread is your enemy.
It's hard to give it up. Very hard, but i finally did it.
At least most of the time. G It's been relegated to "treat" status...

Yup, for me reduced carbs equalled reduced weight, body fat, (now 12%),
bp, improved cholesterol, triglycerides, reduced meds. Started to eat this
way quite a while ago. Now don't weigh or measure anything, just avoid
starchy vegetables, (potatoes, flour, rice, peas etc.), and sugar including
the sugar in fruit. Lots of meat, fish, eggs, cheese, green veg, butter,
oil; easy diet to follow, good results.


  #3 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 28-01-2004, 10:52 PM
david
 
Posts: n/a
Default Low carb diet and heart disease...


"Anthony" wrote in message
news

"Katra" wrote in message
news:KatraMungBean-

Eggs are your freind, bread is your enemy.
It's hard to give it up. Very hard, but i finally did it.
At least most of the time. G It's been relegated to "treat" status...

Yup, for me reduced carbs equalled reduced weight, body fat, (now 12%),
bp, improved cholesterol, triglycerides, reduced meds. Started to eat

this
way quite a while ago. Now don't weigh or measure anything, just avoid
starchy vegetables, (potatoes, flour, rice, peas etc.), and sugar

including
the sugar in fruit. Lots of meat, fish, eggs, cheese, green veg, butter,
oil; easy diet to follow, good results.


So you don't eat any bread, rice or fruit? How can that in any way be easy
to follow?


  #4 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 28-01-2004, 11:02 PM
Dan Abel
 
Posts: n/a
Default Low carb diet and heart disease...

In article , Katra
wrote:


Thing is, new evidence shows how a low fat, high carb diet is killing
people. I've known several myself that went on that type of diet at the
recommendation of their personal physicians that ended up having to go
on statins (which are very hard on the liver) because the diet changes
DID NOT WORK!!!



In my opinion, any time you see the word "high" in front of a food type
that has lots of calories, you are talking about a diet for those who need
to gain weight. High carb, high fat and high protein diets are not going
to work (although sometimes a high protein diet can mess you up enough
that you lose weight, but I'd rather go on statins first) if you are
looking to lose weight.


For my second opinion, I think that whether a diet works well for a person
depends more on psychology than anything else. If Atkins or some
variation works well for you, that's great. That doesn't mean it will
work well for someone else.


Personally, I lose weight by consciously eating more food. At first I
thought that a little self-control in eating less would work. I found
that I *had* no self-control. Attempting to eat less just meant that I
ate more of the high calorie stuff. So, I switched to eating more. I
would fill my plate with plain vegies and have extra servings of salad.
By filling my stomach like this, I could more easily resist the temptation
to take another serving of the high calorie main dish.

--
Dan Abel
Sonoma State University
AIS

  #5 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 29-01-2004, 12:56 AM
Robert Klute
 
Posts: n/a
Default Low carb diet and heart disease...

On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 00:17:18 GMT, Default User
wrote:


Studies in the past seemed to show high fat diets to be deterimental to
health. Newer studies seem to show high carbs may be. Does that mean the
old studies were wrong? Maybe, maybe not. Perhaps these are wrong.
Perhaps these are right. Latching on to any study and saying, "OK, we
have the truth now!" is probably misguided at best.


The problem with any epidemiological study is that you are looking for
correlations, not causes. Sometimes you can wind up with the wrong
conclusions if you do your groupings wrong.

For example, you might see that people who ate meat and potatoes, meat
and pasta, meat and rice tended weight problems, while those who ate
lots of vegetables and beans didn't. You might conclude that meat in
the diet was the problem, whereas it might be the starches or the lack
of vegetables.


Studies do seem to show that being overweight is a major contributor to
heart disease, no matter how you got there.


The proper word should be correlation. Epidemiological studies can only
show correlations.


You lose weight by reducing caloric intake. What means you use is highly
individual. As I said in a previous message, the sorry fact is that most
people who lose weight by whatever means gain it back, most within a
relatively short period of time. It ain't easy.


Yes, the 'trick' is finding a diet that you can continue to follow in
'maintenance' mode.


  #6 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 29-01-2004, 01:17 AM
Nexis
 
Posts: n/a
Default Low carb diet and heart disease...


"Katra" wrote in message
...
For the up-to-date-on-nutrition challenged, I offer the following links:

http://heartdisease.about.com/cs/ris...Atkinsvind.htm

http://thecompounder.com/AtkinsVindicated.html

http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/conte...26/7400/1166-h

There are far more available for those that want to google it...

Thing is, new evidence shows how a low fat, high carb diet is killing
people. I've known several myself that went on that type of diet at the
recommendation of their personal physicians that ended up having to go
on statins (which are very hard on the liver) because the diet changes
DID NOT WORK!!!

is it so hard to believe that the original theories were just plain
wrong? And the current crop of Doctors were trained that way, so they
are going to continue to promote it. Sad.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/...ets020719.html

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/health/ed..._badcarbs.html

I like this link as it stresses starch carbs vs. "green" carbs.
One reason I prefer the greenwich diet over Atkins. I'm not a high fat
fan, (since calories still count) but eggs only have 5 grams each and
you need up to 25 grams per day to maintain skin health. Eggs are also
very rich in trace minerals which are difficult to get in a regular diet.

http://www.familyhaven.com/health/mineral.html

The thing with plants and trace minerals is if they are lacking in the
soil, they will NOT be in the food that is supposed to have them
according to most nutritional charts. The vast majority of commercial
farming is now done in depleted soils using commercial fertilizers that
contain just enough nutrients to get the plants to grow! This is the
major reason why organic veggies really are more nutritious than
non-organic.

http://www.mofga.org/food.html

Eggs are your freind, bread is your enemy.
It's hard to give it up. Very hard, but i finally did it.
At least most of the time. G It's been relegated to "treat" status...

K.


Some day people will figure out that people are individuals, and as
individuals they need different things. What works for one person will not
work for every person...it's that simple. In order to have the best health
you can, you have to find what works for *you*. Not what works for Bill, Bob
and Amanda.

kimberly


  #7 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 29-01-2004, 01:43 AM
Anthony
 
Posts: n/a
Default Low carb diet and heart disease...


"david" wrote in message
...

So you don't eat any bread, rice or fruit? How can that in any way be easy
to follow?

Nor any potatoes, cakes or croissants either. Of course I'd like to eat all
of these things but it's a trade-off between satisfaction of my gourmand
tendencies and staying in reasonable shape. Giving up a whole lot of carbs
is easier for me than one of those low fat-high carb diets; it has worked in
the sense that the results are good and I'm able to stick with it. YMMV


  #8 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 29-01-2004, 02:55 AM
david
 
Posts: n/a
Default Low carb diet and heart disease...


"Anthony" wrote in message
...

"david" wrote in message
...

So you don't eat any bread, rice or fruit? How can that in any way be

easy
to follow?

Nor any potatoes, cakes or croissants either. Of course I'd like to eat

all
of these things but it's a trade-off between satisfaction of my gourmand
tendencies and staying in reasonable shape. Giving up a whole lot of

carbs
is easier for me than one of those low fat-high carb diets; it has worked

in
the sense that the results are good and I'm able to stick with it. YMMV


Well that's great for you. I think I would find it very bloody hard. Not
that I've found anything else mind you.


  #9 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 29-01-2004, 03:45 AM
carmen
 
Posts: n/a
Default Low carb diet and heart disease...

  #10 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 29-01-2004, 07:04 AM
Katra
 
Posts: n/a
Default Low carb diet and heart disease...

In article ,
"Anthony" wrote:

"Katra" wrote in message news:KatraMungBean-

Eggs are your freind, bread is your enemy.
It's hard to give it up. Very hard, but i finally did it.
At least most of the time. G It's been relegated to "treat" status...

Yup, for me reduced carbs equalled reduced weight, body fat, (now 12%),
bp, improved cholesterol, triglycerides, reduced meds. Started to eat this
way quite a while ago. Now don't weigh or measure anything, just avoid
starchy vegetables, (potatoes, flour, rice, peas etc.), and sugar including
the sugar in fruit. Lots of meat, fish, eggs, cheese, green veg, butter,
oil; easy diet to follow, good results.



Easy to anyone but a starchaholic. G
But I agree, it's easier than most diets, and there is more food that
you CAN eat than you cannot!

And it works for the vast majority.

K.

--
Sprout the Mung Bean to reply...

,,Cat's Haven Hobby ,,

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...user id=katra


  #11 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 29-01-2004, 07:04 AM
Katra
 
Posts: n/a
Default Low carb diet and heart disease...

In article ,
"david" wrote:

"Anthony" wrote in message
news

"Katra" wrote in message

news:KatraMungBean-

Eggs are your freind, bread is your enemy.
It's hard to give it up. Very hard, but i finally did it.
At least most of the time. G It's been relegated to "treat" status...

Yup, for me reduced carbs equalled reduced weight, body fat, (now 12%),
bp, improved cholesterol, triglycerides, reduced meds. Started to eat

this
way quite a while ago. Now don't weigh or measure anything, just avoid
starchy vegetables, (potatoes, flour, rice, peas etc.), and sugar

including
the sugar in fruit. Lots of meat, fish, eggs, cheese, green veg, butter,
oil; easy diet to follow, good results.


So you don't eat any bread, rice or fruit? How can that in any way be easy
to follow?



Depends on the individual.....

K.

--
Sprout the Mung Bean to reply...

,,Cat's Haven Hobby ,,

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...user id=katra
  #12 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 29-01-2004, 07:08 AM
Katra
 
Posts: n/a
Default Low carb diet and heart disease...

In article ,
(Dan Abel) wrote:

In article , Katra
wrote:


Thing is, new evidence shows how a low fat, high carb diet is killing
people. I've known several myself that went on that type of diet at the
recommendation of their personal physicians that ended up having to go
on statins (which are very hard on the liver) because the diet changes
DID NOT WORK!!!



In my opinion, any time you see the word "high" in front of a food type
that has lots of calories, you are talking about a diet for those who need
to gain weight. High carb, high fat and high protein diets are not going
to work (although sometimes a high protein diet can mess you up enough
that you lose weight, but I'd rather go on statins first) if you are
looking to lose weight.


For my second opinion, I think that whether a diet works well for a person
depends more on psychology than anything else. If Atkins or some
variation works well for you, that's great. That doesn't mean it will
work well for someone else.


Personally, I lose weight by consciously eating more food. At first I
thought that a little self-control in eating less would work. I found
that I *had* no self-control. Attempting to eat less just meant that I
ate more of the high calorie stuff. So, I switched to eating more. I
would fill my plate with plain vegies and have extra servings of salad.
By filling my stomach like this, I could more easily resist the temptation
to take another serving of the high calorie main dish.

--
Dan Abel
Sonoma State University


Hi fiber diet... :-) Similar to what I do with the Greenwhich diet.
It's still low carb!

Then there is the whole concept of "negative calorie foods".
Digestion and metabolic processes DO burn calories, so foods that are
low in calories and high in fiber and water, (and are very filling) tend
to burn more calories to digest and process than they have in them.

Lettuce, Bok Choy, Cabbage (and related veggies) are good "bulk" fillers
for the tummy.

K.

--
Sprout the Mung Bean to reply...

,,Cat's Haven Hobby ,,

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...user id=katra
  #13 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 29-01-2004, 07:13 AM
Katra
 
Posts: n/a
Default Low carb diet and heart disease...

In article ,
Default User wrote:

Dan Abel wrote:

For my second opinion, I think that whether a diet works well for a person
depends more on psychology than anything else. If Atkins or some
variation works well for you, that's great. That doesn't mean it will
work well for someone else.



I agree with that strongly. The business with medical studies is
extremely tricky. Basically what they do is amass reams of anecdotal
evidence and sort through looking for correlations. That's because it's
difficult to perform controlled experiments on people. You can't get
groups of children, feed them different diets over a span of years, and
see which group has the higher incidence of heart disease. They aren't
lab animals. You can do that with medication to a certain extent, but
not so much with diet. You can have the short term studies, "eat oatmeal
and your cholesterol goes down or maybe it doesn't."

Studies in the past seemed to show high fat diets to be deterimental to
health. Newer studies seem to show high carbs may be. Does that mean the
old studies were wrong? Maybe, maybe not. Perhaps these are wrong.
Perhaps these are right. Latching on to any study and saying, "OK, we
have the truth now!" is probably misguided at best.


Gods that is SO true! :-)
Well stated. applause


Studies do seem to show that being overweight is a major contributor to
heart disease, no matter how you got there.

You lose weight by reducing caloric intake. What means you use is highly
individual. As I said in a previous message, the sorry fact is that most
people who lose weight by whatever means gain it back, most within a
relatively short period of time. It ain't easy.


"Diets" don't work. Period.
It's a matter of changing lifestyles, permanently.
Eat less, move more. The equation is simple.

But the fact remains that in order for your body to function (on it's
main fuel of glucose), protien is a far less efficient fuel than simple
carbs. Hence the huge number of folks flocking to low carb diets.

If you can lose weight on carbs, then KEEP it off, congrats. :-)




Brian Rodenborn


--
Sprout the Mung Bean to reply...

,,Cat's Haven Hobby ,,

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...user id=katra
  #14 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 29-01-2004, 07:17 AM
Katra
 
Posts: n/a
Default Low carb diet and heart disease...

In article [email protected], "Nexis"
wrote:


Some day people will figure out that people are individuals, and as
individuals they need different things. What works for one person will not
work for every person...it's that simple. In order to have the best health
you can, you have to find what works for *you*. Not what works for Bill, Bob
and Amanda.

kimberly


Excellent point... ;-)
Just get checked out. Many grossly obese people have insulin resistance.
It's as common as dirt. Low carbing seems to be the easiest answer to
that problem.

Find a decent family doc or internest that will work with you for the
best results!

K.

--
Sprout the Mung Bean to reply...

,,Cat's Haven Hobby ,,

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...user id=katra
Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Heart Disease - Infographic Dr. Jai Maharaj[_2_] Vegan 0 19-06-2015 09:32 PM
Vegetarians Cut Heart Disease Risk By 32 Percent Dr. Jai Maharaj[_1_] Vegan 5 02-02-2013 08:45 PM
Heart Disease, Diabetes Are Preventable (reprint) Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD General Cooking 0 14-11-2005 02:12 AM
Statistics and heart disease Wanda Wright General Cooking 0 15-11-2004 02:39 AM
Dr. Andrew B. Chung is deluded WAS: Moderate-fat Diet Is Kinder To Heart Than Low-fat Diet Last Shot At The Mu_n Historic 0 06-02-2004 03:11 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:52 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2022 FoodBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about Food and drink"

 

Copyright © 2017