washingtonpost.com
Mad Cow Variant That Hits Humans Is a Puzzle

By Rob Stein
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, January 3, 2004; Page A01

She had just graduated from college when the frightening symptoms
started to surface. The vivacious, easygoing 22-year-old suddenly
became inexplicably irritable and short-tempered. Then her memory
started failing. Her right hand began to tremble. Her leg started to
shake, and her balance gave way.

"She just cried and cried and cried," said the Miami woman's father,
who asked that his daughter be identified only by her first name,
Charlene. "She knew she was sick, but she didn't know what it was."

Within six months, Charlene was incoherent and helpless, unable to
speak or control her bodily functions. Today, two years after the
first symptoms appeared, she lies bedridden, her brain ravaged. She is
fed through a tube in her stomach and has no hope of surviving.

"She went down very quickly. She lost awareness. She doesn't know
where she is and who anyone is," said her father, Patrick. "Every day
is hard."

Charlene is the only person in the United States confirmed to have the
human form of mad cow disease, in which a misshapen infectious protein
inexorably erodes the brain. She is believed to have contracted the
insidious disease by eating infected beef during her first 13 years of
life, when her family was living in Britain.

Charlene's story is the kind of tragedy that the United States is
desperately trying to avoid after the discovery of the first U.S. cow
carrying the infection.

"I'm terrified that this is going to happen again. It's like being in
the U.K. again, watching this all over again," Patrick said. "I'm
worried that people may be eating beef that is contaminated and that
down the road people are going to start to die from this disease."

Government officials and many independent experts stress that even
with the long-feared detection of an infected cow in this country,
existing safeguards mean the risk that anyone eating U.S. beef will
face Charlene's fate remains extremely remote. Agriculture officials
announced drastic new measures this week in the hopes of erasing any
possibility of danger.

But as experts debate the effectiveness of the new protections, try to
figure out how the Holstein became infected and search for other
contaminated cows that may be in the food supply, the discovery of the
infected animal has focused attention on the many uncertainties about
the illness and on how well the government monitors for homegrown
cases.

"I think the occurrence of mad cow disease is something of a wake-up
call that no matter how we insulate ourselves, we need to be
increasingly vigilant and fill in whatever gaps there might be," said
Raymond Roos of the University of Chicago, who studies the disease.

Worldwide, 153 cases of the human form of mad cow disease have been
reported. The overwhelming majority -- 143 -- occurred in England,
where the disease was first detected in 1996. Six cases have been
documented in France, and one each has been reported in Italy,
Ireland, Canada and the United States. All have been linked to the mad
cow epidemic in England in the 1980s.

In cows, the disease is officially known as bovine spongiform
encephalopathy (BSE) -- "spongiform" because the disease makes the
brain look like a hole-riddled sponge. In humans, the disease is
called variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (vCJD). It is named after
Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (CJD), a similar but distinct brain malady
first identified in Germany in 1920.

CJD is one of a few diseases caused by prions. Prions are strange,
normally harmless proteins found in the brain that contort into a
shape that makes them lethal to nerve cells. In CJD, which occurs in
about 1 out of every 1 million people, the malformation occurs
spontaneously for reasons that remain a mystery. Victims quickly and
progressively lose their ability to think and control their bodies. It
is untreatable and invariably fatal.

The disease almost always hits people in their fifties, sixties and
seventies. In the late 1990s, however, British doctors noticed that
unusual cases appeared to be striking people in their twenties and
thirties. Scientists traced the baffling cases to meat from cows
stricken by mad cow disease -- which is also caused by prions.

Until then, the only known cases of transmitted CJD involved
transplant patients who were given nervous system tissue or short
children who received injections of growth hormone derived unknowingly
from infected people. It is also passed down through generations in
rare families.

In 1996, Britain faced the possibility of a devastating epidemic of
the first prion disease known to be spread by eating infected animals.
U.S. officials began monitoring the incidence of CJD in this country
and started investigating unusual cases.

"Because of travel to the United Kingdom, some Americans may have been
exposed to BSE," said Ermias Belay, a medical epidemiologist at the
federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta. "It's
an awful disease."

The key was to differentiate between CJD, the spontaneous form of the
disease, and vCJD, the human form of mad cow disease. Although the two
diseases are similar, they differ in ways aside from the age of
typical victims.

The first symptoms of CJD are usually memory lapses and difficulty
standing, walking and talking. Victims deteriorate rapidly, becoming
bedridden in weeks or months and falling into a coma before they die,
usually within a year.

In contrast, vCJD patients tend first to develop psychiatric symptoms
such as Charlene's -- depression, anxiety, withdrawal. They also often
have severe pain or tingling and burning sensations in the legs before
they begin to lose the ability to stand, walk and talk. As in
Charlene's case, the agony often stretches over two to four years
before death.

Magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) can frequently detect unique changes
in the brain that distinguish vCJD from CJD. Sometimes the prions can
be found in the tonsils of vCJD victims, as was the case with
Charlene. An electroencephalogram (EEG) can sometimes spot a
distinctive brain wave pattern in CJD patients that does not occur in
vCJD patients.

But the only way to make a definitive diagnosis is to do a detailed
examination of the brain after death. The brains of vCJD patients have
telltale deposits of plaque. There are also subtle differences in the
prion proteins that can be detected by chemical analysis.

In the past six years, doctors have shipped samples from the brains of
732 patients who have died from suspicious diseases to the National
Prion Disease Pathology Surveillance Center, which the CDC established
at Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland. Scientists conduct a
battery of tests for signs of vCJD and another disease caused by
prions that affects elk and deer, called chronic wasting disease. It
has not been found in humans.

Some skeptics say odd cases or clusters of cases of CJD have occurred
in the United States that may be homegrown vCJD, but the CDC and other
experts maintain that none has been confirmed.

"We think we are in the best position to discover if there is an
atypical case," said Pierluigi Gambetti, who directs the Cleveland
center. "We have not seen one case of variant CJD that was a real
American indigenous case."

But Gambetti acknowledged that he gets samples from only perhaps half
of the cases of CJD that would be expected to occur each year in the
United States.

"It's not complete surveillance. It's like you go to the airport, and
half the people go unchecked. You would not be happy to fly in an
airplane where half the people have not been checked at all," Gambetti
said. "If we want to protect Americans, we need to examine many more
cases."

Nevertheless, experts doubt that large numbers of cases are escaping
detection in this country. The main reason is the relatively small
number of cases that have occurred in Britain even though more than 1
million infected cows may have entered the food supply there.

But one of the major outstanding questions about vCJD is the
incubation period. It appears to be five to 15 years. But similar
diseases have incubation periods of as many as perhaps 40 years,
leaving open the possibility that a wave of new victims could occur in
coming decades.

And many other questions remain, including exactly how much infected
tissue it takes to pass on the infection, and why the disease singles
out younger people.

"There are theories and ideas," said Paul Brown of the National
Institutes of Health. "Presumably, it is because they were exposed to
the BSE infectious agent at a young age through inexpensive foods
eaten by schoolchildren. But we really cannot make any pronouncements
on that." (The meat supplied in schools is often a mixture that
includes tissue that is not used in prime meat.)

Another mystery is why almost everyone who gets sick seems to have a
specific genetic version of the protein. "That's a puzzle. No one has
a clue," Brown said. "But clearly it's a susceptibility factor."

Taken together, the uncertainties make it impossible to know for sure
what the future holds.

"Prion diseases have been the source of continuing surprises for
decades," said Roos in Chicago. "So most people who work in the field
are hesitant to say that something never can occur."

In Miami, as he watches his daughter wither away, Charlene's father
hopes that U.S. officials do not repeat the mistakes their British
counterparts made.

"It's sad enough what happened there," he said. "It shouldn't be
happening again. It should not be happening again."

-------------------------------------

On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 06:34:55 GMT, (PropMan) wrote:

>But the only way to make a definitive diagnosis is to do a detailed
>examination of the brain after death. The brains of vCJD patients have
>telltale deposits of plaque. There are also subtle differences in the
>prion proteins that can be detected by chemical analysis.

Sounds more and more like an AGE disease where proteins are deformed
by abnormal glycations and form new tertiary structures, like the
typical beta-pleated sheet that prions form.

In case, it is possible that the reason is rather in a fatal
combination of too high sugar use in diet and lack of antioxidants.

Alf Christophersen > wrote in message >. ..
> On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 06:34:55 GMT, (PropMan) wrote:
>
> >But the only way to make a definitive diagnosis is to do a detailed
> >examination of the brain after death. The brains of vCJD patients have
> >telltale deposits of plaque. There are also subtle differences in the
> >prion proteins that can be detected by chemical analysis.
>
> Sounds more and more like an AGE disease where proteins are deformed
> by abnormal glycations and form new tertiary structures, like the
> typical beta-pleated sheet that prions form.
>
> In case, it is possible that the reason is rather in a fatal
> combination of too high sugar use in diet and lack of antioxidants.



Or a meat eater's disease.


Mad Cow Causes BOTH
'Sporadic' CJD and vCJD
1-3-4


Mad Cow - Linked To Thousands Of CJD Cases?

"People who develop CJD from eating mad cow contaminated beef have
been thought to develop a specific form of the disorder called variant
CJD. But new research, released last December, indicates the mad cow
pathogen can cause both sporadic CJD and the variant form, vCJD."

By Steve Mitchell United Press International 1-3-4

(UPI via COMTEX) -- The U.S. government's monitoring system for cases
of Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, a fatal human brain illness, could be
missing tens of thousands of victims, scientists and consumer
advocates have told United Press International.



The rest of the article may be found at:
http://www.rense.com/general47/spor.htm



..

"Ron" > wrote in message
om...
> Alf Christophersen > wrote in message
>. ..
> > On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 06:34:55 GMT, (PropMan) wrote:
> >
> > >But the only way to make a definitive diagnosis is to do a detailed
> > >examination of the brain after death. The brains of vCJD patients have
> > >telltale deposits of plaque. There are also subtle differences in the
> > >prion proteins that can be detected by chemical analysis.
> >
> > Sounds more and more like an AGE disease where proteins are deformed
> > by abnormal glycations and form new tertiary structures, like the
> > typical beta-pleated sheet that prions form.
> >
> > In case, it is possible that the reason is rather in a fatal
> > combination of too high sugar use in diet and lack of antioxidants.
>
>
>
> Or a meat eater's disease.
>
>

actually the proportion of vegetarians in the UK who have developed nvCJD is
about the same as the proportion they form of the population.,

Vegetarians have their children vaccinated from vaccines grown on bovine
foetal serum etc

Jim Webster

"Jim Webster" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Ron" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Alf Christophersen > wrote in message
> >. ..
> > > On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 06:34:55 GMT, (PropMan) wrote:
> > >
> > > >But the only way to make a definitive diagnosis is to do a detailed
> > > >examination of the brain after death. The brains of vCJD patients
have
> > > >telltale deposits of plaque. There are also subtle differences in the
> > > >prion proteins that can be detected by chemical analysis.
> > >
> > > Sounds more and more like an AGE disease where proteins are deformed
> > > by abnormal glycations and form new tertiary structures, like the
> > > typical beta-pleated sheet that prions form.
> > >
> > > In case, it is possible that the reason is rather in a fatal
> > > combination of too high sugar use in diet and lack of antioxidants.
> >
> >
> >
> > Or a meat eater's disease.
> >
> >
>
> actually the proportion of vegetarians in the UK who have developed nvCJD
is
> about the same as the proportion they form of the population.,

Crap.

The one so called 'vegetarian' who got nvCJD "occasionally ate meat".

>
> Vegetarians have their children vaccinated from vaccines grown on bovine
> foetal serum etc

So?

>
> Jim Webster
>
>
>

"Zakhar" > wrote in message
s.com...
>
> "Jim Webster" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Ron" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > > Alf Christophersen > wrote in
message
> > >. ..
> > > > On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 06:34:55 GMT, (PropMan) wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >But the only way to make a definitive diagnosis is to do a detailed
> > > > >examination of the brain after death. The brains of vCJD patients
> have
> > > > >telltale deposits of plaque. There are also subtle differences in
the
> > > > >prion proteins that can be detected by chemical analysis.
> > > >
> > > > Sounds more and more like an AGE disease where proteins are deformed
> > > > by abnormal glycations and form new tertiary structures, like the
> > > > typical beta-pleated sheet that prions form.
> > > >
> > > > In case, it is possible that the reason is rather in a fatal
> > > > combination of too high sugar use in diet and lack of antioxidants.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Or a meat eater's disease.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > actually the proportion of vegetarians in the UK who have developed
nvCJD
> is
> > about the same as the proportion they form of the population.,
>
> Crap.
>
> The one so called 'vegetarian' who got nvCJD "occasionally ate meat".

most vegetarians do actually, most of my best customers for beef are lapsed
vegetarians

>
> >
> > Vegetarians have their children vaccinated from vaccines grown on bovine
> > foetal serum etc
>
> So?
>

obviously if you cannot understand it, it is hardly my place to enlighten
you

Jim Webster

"Jim Webster" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Zakhar" > wrote in message
> s.com...
> >
> > "Jim Webster" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "Ron" > wrote in message
> > > om...
> > > > Alf Christophersen > wrote in
> message
> > > >. ..
> > > > > On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 06:34:55 GMT, (PropMan) wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >But the only way to make a definitive diagnosis is to do a
detailed
> > > > > >examination of the brain after death. The brains of vCJD patients
> > have
> > > > > >telltale deposits of plaque. There are also subtle differences in
> the
> > > > > >prion proteins that can be detected by chemical analysis.
> > > > >
> > > > > Sounds more and more like an AGE disease where proteins are
deformed
> > > > > by abnormal glycations and form new tertiary structures, like the
> > > > > typical beta-pleated sheet that prions form.
> > > > >
> > > > > In case, it is possible that the reason is rather in a fatal
> > > > > combination of too high sugar use in diet and lack of
antioxidants.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Or a meat eater's disease.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > actually the proportion of vegetarians in the UK who have developed
> nvCJD
> > is
> > > about the same as the proportion they form of the population.,
> >
> > Crap.
> >
> > The one so called 'vegetarian' who got nvCJD "occasionally ate meat".
>
> most vegetarians do actually,

That would be lying meat eaters who call themselves vegetarian, actually.

>most of my best customers for beef are lapsed
> vegetarians.

You are a ****.

>
> >
> > >
> > > Vegetarians have their children vaccinated from vaccines grown on
bovine
> > > foetal serum etc
> >
> > So?
> >
>
> obviously if you cannot understand it, it is hardly my place to enlighten
> you


No point to make; nothing new there, eh, jimmy boy.

On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 21:05:10 -0000, "Jim Webster"
> wrote:

>> The one so called 'vegetarian' who got nvCJD "occasionally ate meat".
>
>most vegetarians do actually, most of my best customers for beef are lapsed
>vegetarians

Do they wear a badge of some kind?

"Zakhar" > wrote in message
s.com...
>
> "Jim Webster" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Zakhar" > wrote in message
> > s.com...
> > >
> > > "Jim Webster" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > >
> > > > "Ron" > wrote in message
> > > > om...
> > > > > Alf Christophersen > wrote in
> > message
> > > > >. ..
> > > > > > On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 06:34:55 GMT, (PropMan)
wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >But the only way to make a definitive diagnosis is to do a
> detailed
> > > > > > >examination of the brain after death. The brains of vCJD
patients
> > > have
> > > > > > >telltale deposits of plaque. There are also subtle differences
in
> > the
> > > > > > >prion proteins that can be detected by chemical analysis.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sounds more and more like an AGE disease where proteins are
> deformed
> > > > > > by abnormal glycations and form new tertiary structures, like
the
> > > > > > typical beta-pleated sheet that prions form.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In case, it is possible that the reason is rather in a fatal
> > > > > > combination of too high sugar use in diet and lack of
> antioxidants.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Or a meat eater's disease.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > actually the proportion of vegetarians in the UK who have developed
> > nvCJD
> > > is
> > > > about the same as the proportion they form of the population.,
> > >
> > > Crap.
> > >
> > > The one so called 'vegetarian' who got nvCJD "occasionally ate meat".
> >
> > most vegetarians do actually,
>
> That would be lying meat eaters who call themselves vegetarian, actually.
>
> >most of my best customers for beef are lapsed
> > vegetarians.
>
> You are a ****.

nice to see vegetarians are such nice reasoning people

Jim Webster

"Bob Ward" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 21:05:10 -0000, "Jim Webster"
> > wrote:
>
> >> The one so called 'vegetarian' who got nvCJD "occasionally ate meat".
> >
> >most vegetarians do actually, most of my best customers for beef are
lapsed
> >vegetarians
>
> Do they wear a badge of some kind?

don't need to, I know them all. We have a bullock killed and butched and is
then divided into eight identical boxes. I then deliver the box to the house
of the customer to putting in their deep freeze. Hence I know and chat,
often at length over a coffee, to every customer

Jim Webster
>

"Jim Webster" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Zakhar" > wrote in message
> s.com...
> >
snip

> > > > > actually the proportion of vegetarians in the UK who have
developed
> > > nvCJD
> > > > is
> > > > > about the same as the proportion they form of the population.,
> > > >
> > > > Crap.
> > > >
> > > > The one so called 'vegetarian' who got nvCJD "occasionally ate
meat".
> > >
> > > most vegetarians do actually,
> >
> > That would be lying meat eaters who call themselves vegetarian,
actually.
> >
> > >most of my best customers for beef are lapsed
> > > vegetarians.
> >
> > You are a ****.
>
> nice to see vegetarians are such nice reasoning people
>

Thanks, and tell it like it is.

"Jim Webster" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Bob Ward" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 21:05:10 -0000, "Jim Webster"
> > > wrote:
> >
> > >> The one so called 'vegetarian' who got nvCJD "occasionally ate meat".
> > >
> > >most vegetarians do actually, most of my best customers for beef are
> lapsed
> > >vegetarians
> >
> > Do they wear a badge of some kind?
>
> don't need to, I know them all. We have a bullock killed and butched and
is
> then divided into eight identical boxes. I then deliver the box to the
house
> of the customer to putting in their deep freeze. Hence I know and chat,
> often at length over a coffee, to every customer

So you're a van driver. How many customers are your best customers and how
many of those are lapsed vegetarians?


>
> Jim Webster
> >
>
>

"Zakhar" > wrote in message
s.com...
>
> "Jim Webster" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Zakhar" > wrote in message
> > s.com...
> > >
> snip
>
> > > > > > actually the proportion of vegetarians in the UK who have
> developed
> > > > nvCJD
> > > > > is
> > > > > > about the same as the proportion they form of the population.,
> > > > >
> > > > > Crap.
> > > > >
> > > > > The one so called 'vegetarian' who got nvCJD "occasionally ate
> meat".
> > > >
> > > > most vegetarians do actually,
> > >
> > > That would be lying meat eaters who call themselves vegetarian,
> actually.
> > >
> > > >most of my best customers for beef are lapsed
> > > > vegetarians.
> > >
> > > You are a ****.
> >
> > nice to see vegetarians are such nice reasoning people
> >
>
> Thanks, and tell it like it is.

all beans and wind

>
>

"Zakhar" > wrote in message
s.com...
>
> "Jim Webster" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Bob Ward" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 21:05:10 -0000, "Jim Webster"
> > > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >> The one so called 'vegetarian' who got nvCJD "occasionally ate
meat".
> > > >
> > > >most vegetarians do actually, most of my best customers for beef are
> > lapsed
> > > >vegetarians
> > >
> > > Do they wear a badge of some kind?
> >
> > don't need to, I know them all. We have a bullock killed and butched and
> is
> > then divided into eight identical boxes. I then deliver the box to the
> house
> > of the customer to putting in their deep freeze. Hence I know and chat,
> > often at length over a coffee, to every customer
>
> So you're a van driver. How many customers are your best customers and how
> many of those are lapsed vegetarians?

pay attention at the back

Jim Webster

"Jim Webster" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Zakhar" > wrote in message
> s.com...
> >
> > "Jim Webster" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "Bob Ward" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 21:05:10 -0000, "Jim Webster"
> > > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >> The one so called 'vegetarian' who got nvCJD "occasionally ate
> meat".
> > > > >
> > > > >most vegetarians do actually, most of my best customers for beef
are
> > > lapsed
> > > > >vegetarians
> > > >
> > > > Do they wear a badge of some kind?
> > >
> > > don't need to, I know them all. We have a bullock killed and butched
and
> > is
> > > then divided into eight identical boxes. I then deliver the box to the
> > house
> > > of the customer to putting in their deep freeze. Hence I know and
chat,
> > > often at length over a coffee, to every customer
> >
> > So you're a van driver. How many customers are your best customers and
how
> > many of those are lapsed vegetarians?
>
> pay attention at the back

******. (I know the truth hurts, but you are a ******).

I'll assume, as you won't tell me that all eight (what a thriving van
driving
round you have) are your best customers, and that means that at least 5 are
elapsed vegetarians, I'll assume five, as you won't tell me.

So using those assumptions, you know at least five vegetarians that you
deliver 1/8 of a cow to. You're full of shit little van driver jimmy.

"Zakhar" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jim Webster" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Zakhar" > wrote in message
> > s.com...
> > >
> > > "Jim Webster" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > >
> > > > "Bob Ward" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > > On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 21:05:10 -0000, "Jim Webster"
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >> The one so called 'vegetarian' who got nvCJD "occasionally ate
> > meat".
> > > > > >
> > > > > >most vegetarians do actually, most of my best customers for beef
> are
> > > > lapsed
> > > > > >vegetarians
> > > > >
> > > > > Do they wear a badge of some kind?
> > > >
> > > > don't need to, I know them all. We have a bullock killed and butched
> and
> > > is
> > > > then divided into eight identical boxes. I then deliver the box to
the
> > > house
> > > > of the customer to putting in their deep freeze. Hence I know and
> chat,
> > > > often at length over a coffee, to every customer
> > >
> > > So you're a van driver. How many customers are your best customers and
> how
> > > many of those are lapsed vegetarians?
> >
> > pay attention at the back
>
> ******. (I know the truth hurts, but you are a ******).
>
> I'll assume, as you won't tell me that all eight (what a thriving van
> driving
> round you have) are your best customers, and that means that at least 5
are
> elapsed vegetarians, I'll assume five, as you won't tell me.
>
> So using those assumptions, you know at least five vegetarians that you
> deliver 1/8 of a cow to. You're full of shit little van driver jimmy.

OK, a comprehension test

Which part of the phrase used above

We have a bullock killed and butched

Do you relate to the driving of motor vehicle.

As for the rest of your comments, it is your sense of personal inadequacy
that makes you resort to personal insult or merely lack of vocabulary?

Jim Webster

"Jim Webster" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> "Zakhar" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
snip

> > > > >
> > > > > don't need to, I know them all. We have a bullock killed and
butched
> > and
> > > > is
> > > > > then divided into eight identical boxes. I then deliver the box to
> the
> > > > house
> > > > > of the customer to putting in their deep freeze. Hence I know and
> > chat,
> > > > > often at length over a coffee, to every customer
> > > >
> > > > So you're a van driver. How many customers are your best customers
and
> > how
> > > > many of those are lapsed vegetarians?
> > >
> > > pay attention at the back
> >
> > ******. (I know the truth hurts, but you are a ******).
> >
> > I'll assume, as you won't tell me that all eight (what a thriving van
> > driving
> > round you have) are your best customers, and that means that at least 5
> are
> > elapsed vegetarians, I'll assume five, as you won't tell me.
> >
> > So using those assumptions, you know at least five vegetarians that you
> > deliver 1/8 of a cow to. You're full of shit little van driver jimmy.
>
> OK, a comprehension test
>
> Which part of the phrase used above
>
> We have a bullock killed and butched

You're repeating yourself.

>
> Do you relate to the driving of motor vehicle.

The "I then deliver the box to the house of the customer" part. I made the
assumption that you don't deliver cow parts by unicycle or skateboard.

>
> As for the rest of your comments, it is your sense of personal inadequacy
> that makes you resort to personal insult or merely lack of vocabulary?

No, just your lack of ability in answering a straight question, and your
transparent bull-shitting about "most of your best customers are lapsed
vegetarians".

You're full of shit, little van driver jimmy.

>
> Jim Webster
>
>

Repost - Server probs?

"Jim Webster" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> "Zakhar" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
snip

> > > > >
> > > > > don't need to, I know them all. We have a bullock killed and
butched
> > and
> > > > is
> > > > > then divided into eight identical boxes. I then deliver the box to
> the
> > > > house
> > > > > of the customer to putting in their deep freeze. Hence I know and
> > chat,
> > > > > often at length over a coffee, to every customer
> > > >
> > > > So you're a van driver. How many customers are your best customers
and
> > how
> > > > many of those are lapsed vegetarians?
> > >
> > > pay attention at the back
> >
> > ******. (I know the truth hurts, but you are a ******).
> >
> > I'll assume, as you won't tell me that all eight (what a thriving van
> > driving
> > round you have) are your best customers, and that means that at least 5
> are
> > elapsed vegetarians, I'll assume five, as you won't tell me.
> >
> > So using those assumptions, you know at least five vegetarians that you
> > deliver 1/8 of a cow to. You're full of shit little van driver jimmy.
>
> OK, a comprehension test
>
> Which part of the phrase used above
>
> We have a bullock killed and butched

You're repeating yourself.

>
> Do you relate to the driving of motor vehicle.

The "I then deliver the box to the house of the customer" part. I made the
assumption that you don't deliver cow parts by unicycle or skateboard.

>
> As for the rest of your comments, it is your sense of personal inadequacy
> that makes you resort to personal insult or merely lack of vocabulary?

No, just your lack of ability in answering a straight question, and your
transparent bull-shitting about "most of your best customers are lapsed
vegetarians".

You're full of shit, little van driver jimmy.

>
> Jim Webster
>
>

Zakhar > writes
>******. (I know the truth hurts, but you are a ******).
>
>I'll assume, as you won't tell me that all eight (what a thriving van
>driving
>round you have) are your best customers, and that means that at least 5 are
>elapsed vegetarians, I'll assume five, as you won't tell me.
>
>So using those assumptions, you know at least five vegetarians that you
>deliver 1/8 of a cow to. You're full of shit little van driver jimmy.

<yawn>

So who has been rattling your cage ....

--
Oz
This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious.
DEMON address no longer in use.

"Oz" > wrote in message
...
> Zakhar > writes
> >******. (I know the truth hurts, but you are a ******).
> >
> >I'll assume, as you won't tell me that all eight (what a thriving van
> >driving
> >round you have) are your best customers, and that means that at least 5
are
> >elapsed vegetarians, I'll assume five, as you won't tell me.
> >
> >So using those assumptions, you know at least five vegetarians that you
> >deliver 1/8 of a cow to. You're full of shit little van driver jimmy.
>
> <yawn>
>
> So who has been rattling your cage ....

he's just one of the loonies from alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian so I cut the
cross posts

Jim Webster

In article >, "Jim Webster" > wrote:
>
>"Oz" > wrote in message
...
>> Zakhar > writes
>> >******. (I know the truth hurts, but you are a ******).
>> >
>> >I'll assume, as you won't tell me that all eight (what a thriving van
>> >driving
>> >round you have) are your best customers, and that means that at least 5
>are
>> >elapsed vegetarians, I'll assume five, as you won't tell me.
>> >
>> >So using those assumptions, you know at least five vegetarians that you
>> >deliver 1/8 of a cow to. You're full of shit little van driver jimmy.
>>
>> <yawn>
>>
>> So who has been rattling your cage ....
>
>he's just one of the loonies from alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian so I cut the
>cross posts

I gather they're not the same as that PETA mob? (People Eating Tasty
Animals.)


Cheers, Phred.

--
LID

"Phred" > wrote in message
...


> >> So who has been rattling your cage ....
> >
> >he's just one of the loonies from alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian so I cut
the
> >cross posts
>
> I gather they're not the same as that PETA mob? (People Eating Tasty
> Animals.)
>
>

as fine an assortment of individuals as you would happily leave to bicker
away in their own little huddle.
I have been in groups x posted with them over the years, and the same sad
individuals are still arguing the same points, with the same level of
personal abuse as they did two years ago

A lot could be made of the fact that the term "****wit" is used so commonly
that it seems to be on the verge of becoming a normal form of address
amongst them

Jim Webster