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Default John, Bobby, and Ted

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> At what point does the good offset the bad? All three had shining examples
> of both.
>

I have had this thought too. Also, questions re Christianity,
forgiveness, and redemption.

--
Jean B.
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On Wed, 02 Sep 2009 01:26:40 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
> wrote:

>On Sat 29 Aug 2009 08:34:45a, Jean B. told us...
>
>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>> At what point does the good offset the bad? All three had shining
>>> examples of both.
>>>

>> I have had this thought too. Also, questions re Christianity,
>> forgiveness, and redemption.
>>

>
>Well, yes, there's that, too. What always bothers me with this sort of
>situation, though, is that usually after someone's death all you hear is
>praise. To me it's a rather unbalanced view of the person.


So, you'd bad mouth a dead person who redeemed himself after a bad
start? Most people refrain from talking smack about the dead, even
when the dead person went the wrong way at the end of life.

I attended a funeral a couple of weeks ago. The person had committed
suicide. He was a doctoral candidate who died as a drug addict that
had recently robbed a bank. All this built up in the last few years.

People usually hold themselves together at a funeral. His mother is
very quiet and reserved, never raises her voice... but she sobbed loud
and long at the funeral. She was absolutely inconsolable. No matter
how bad the person was at some point, there is someone who still loves
them so most people don't bad mouth the dead for that reason.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.
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"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 02 Sep 2009 01:26:40 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
> > wrote:
>
>>On Sat 29 Aug 2009 08:34:45a, Jean B. told us...
>>
>>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>>> At what point does the good offset the bad? All three had shining
>>>> examples of both.
>>>>
>>> I have had this thought too. Also, questions re Christianity,
>>> forgiveness, and redemption.
>>>

>>
>>Well, yes, there's that, too. What always bothers me with this sort of
>>situation, though, is that usually after someone's death all you hear is
>>praise. To me it's a rather unbalanced view of the person.

>
> So, you'd bad mouth a dead person who redeemed himself after a bad
> start? Most people refrain from talking smack about the dead, even
> when the dead person went the wrong way at the end of life.
>
> I attended a funeral a couple of weeks ago. The person had committed
> suicide. He was a doctoral candidate who died as a drug addict that
> had recently robbed a bank. All this built up in the last few years.
>
> People usually hold themselves together at a funeral. His mother is
> very quiet and reserved, never raises her voice... but she sobbed loud
> and long at the funeral. She was absolutely inconsolable. No matter
> how bad the person was at some point, there is someone who still loves
> them so most people don't bad mouth the dead for that reason.
>


sf. You have been around here long enough to understand that Wayne is
intellectually or arterially challenged. Please don't be unnecessarily
unkind.


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Default John, Bobby, and Ted

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> On Sat 29 Aug 2009 08:34:45a, Jean B. told us...
>
>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>> At what point does the good offset the bad? All three had shining
>>> examples of both.
>>>

>> I have had this thought too. Also, questions re Christianity,
>> forgiveness, and redemption.
>>

>
> Well, yes, there's that, too. What always bothers me with this sort of
> situation, though, is that usually after someone's death all you hear is
> praise. To me it's a rather unbalanced view of the person.
>

Oh sure. But I don't think it's time to "dance on his grave".

--
Jean B.
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Default John, Bobby, and Ted

sf wrote:
> On Wed, 02 Sep 2009 01:26:40 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
> > wrote:
>
>> On Sat 29 Aug 2009 08:34:45a, Jean B. told us...
>>
>>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>>> At what point does the good offset the bad? All three had shining
>>>> examples of both.
>>>>
>>> I have had this thought too. Also, questions re Christianity,
>>> forgiveness, and redemption.
>>>

>> Well, yes, there's that, too. What always bothers me with this sort of
>> situation, though, is that usually after someone's death all you hear is
>> praise. To me it's a rather unbalanced view of the person.

>
> So, you'd bad mouth a dead person who redeemed himself after a bad
> start? Most people refrain from talking smack about the dead, even
> when the dead person went the wrong way at the end of life.
>
> I attended a funeral a couple of weeks ago. The person had committed
> suicide. He was a doctoral candidate who died as a drug addict that
> had recently robbed a bank. All this built up in the last few years.
>
> People usually hold themselves together at a funeral. His mother is
> very quiet and reserved, never raises her voice... but she sobbed loud
> and long at the funeral. She was absolutely inconsolable. No matter
> how bad the person was at some point, there is someone who still loves
> them so most people don't bad mouth the dead for that reason.
>

That's true.

--
Jean B.


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Default John, Bobby, and Ted

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> On Tue 01 Sep 2009 08:59:01p, sf told us...
>
>> On Wed, 02 Sep 2009 01:26:40 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat 29 Aug 2009 08:34:45a, Jean B. told us...
>>>
>>>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>>>> At what point does the good offset the bad? All three had shining
>>>>> examples of both.
>>>>>
>>>> I have had this thought too. Also, questions re Christianity,
>>>> forgiveness, and redemption.
>>>>
>>> Well, yes, there's that, too. What always bothers me with this sort of
>>> situation, though, is that usually after someone's death all you hear is
>>> praise. To me it's a rather unbalanced view of the person.

>> So, you'd bad mouth a dead person who redeemed himself after a bad
>> start? Most people refrain from talking smack about the dead, even
>> when the dead person went the wrong way at the end of life.
>>
>> I attended a funeral a couple of weeks ago. The person had committed
>> suicide. He was a doctoral candidate who died as a drug addict that
>> had recently robbed a bank. All this built up in the last few years.
>>
>> People usually hold themselves together at a funeral. His mother is
>> very quiet and reserved, never raises her voice... but she sobbed loud
>> and long at the funeral. She was absolutely inconsolable. No matter
>> how bad the person was at some point, there is someone who still loves
>> them so most people don't bad mouth the dead for that reason.
>>

>
> I think it's very subjective, and I would be the last person to bad mouth
> the dead under the circumstances of a funeral. However, when it comes to
> someone of prominence in public life, it sickens me to hear the media spout
> nothing but praise when there is plenty that is anything but praise worthy.
> Praise should be given for the praise worthy acts, but at some point the
> dark side shouldn't be ignored. It's a completely unfair and unbalanced
> appraisal of the person. The damned media skews just about everything.
>
> Speaking of suicide, I have to admit that I'm not against it nor do I
> consider it a sin, though I doubt I would ever choose it for myself. There
> are often reasons that are justifiable to the person who commits such an
> act. As a child of 7 or 8 I remember the husband of the elderly couple who
> were next door neighbors. He was kind, gentle, generous, and loving. He
> had been through a series of serious illnesses, and apparently didn't see a
> better future for himself. He had also apparently given great thought
> about what he was going to do, as he prepared an area in their basement
> that would minimize creating a horrible mess. He also had to assemble a
> very complicated gun that was his chosen menas to an end. I was very
> saddened by his passing, but I didn't blame him for doing something
> unpardonable. He had lived a good, long, productive life. Who was to tell
> him that he *couldn't* carry out his wish?
>

That must have been very hard on his wife. I hope she concurred
with his plan, and it didn't just come as a most-dreadful shock to
her.

--
Jean B.
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"Jean B." > wrote in message
...
> sf wrote:
>> On Wed, 02 Sep 2009 01:26:40 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat 29 Aug 2009 08:34:45a, Jean B. told us...
>>>
>>>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>>>> At what point does the good offset the bad? All three had shining
>>>>> examples of both.
>>>>>
>>>> I have had this thought too. Also, questions re Christianity,
>>>> forgiveness, and redemption.
>>>>
>>> Well, yes, there's that, too. What always bothers me with this sort of
>>> situation, though, is that usually after someone's death all you hear is
>>> praise. To me it's a rather unbalanced view of the person.

>>
>> So, you'd bad mouth a dead person who redeemed himself after a bad
>> start? Most people refrain from talking smack about the dead, even
>> when the dead person went the wrong way at the end of life. I attended a
>> funeral a couple of weeks ago. The person had committed
>> suicide. He was a doctoral candidate who died as a drug addict that
>> had recently robbed a bank. All this built up in the last few years.
>>
>> People usually hold themselves together at a funeral. His mother is
>> very quiet and reserved, never raises her voice... but she sobbed loud
>> and long at the funeral. She was absolutely inconsolable. No matter
>> how bad the person was at some point, there is someone who still loves
>> them so most people don't bad mouth the dead for that reason.
>>

> That's true.
>


Yes. And then there's the hope that if what comes around goes around (and it
does) people will do you (and your loved ones) the same kindness when you
die. It's just not a time to be acting like an asshole. The time to act like
an asshole is when they're living.


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"cybercat" > wrote

> Yes. And then there's the hope that if what comes around goes around (and
> it does) people will do you (and your loved ones) the same kindness when
> you die.


There is an old gospel song that says pretty much the same thing... Who Will
Sing For Me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zR5vXKTLqhM

George L

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Default John, Bobby, and Ted

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> On Thu 03 Sep 2009 06:15:42a, Jean B. told us...


>>>

>> That must have been very hard on his wife. I hope she concurred
>> with his plan, and it didn't just come as a most-dreadful shock to
>> her.

>
> His wife was totally unaware of his plan, if fact was at the beauty salon
> when it happened. When she arrived home and opened the back door, she
> sensed something was wrong and came next door to get my mother. My mother
> looked all through the house before going to the basement where she found
> him. When told of what happened, his wife sat motionless for hours,
> apparently in shock. When she went upstairs to the bedrooms, she
> discovered a note on her son's dresser that her husband had written. My
> mother was with her, and watched as she tore the note (unread) into many
> pieces. The couple were in their 70's, and I was much too young at that
> time to read her emotions and actions.
>




He could have prepared her at least. That was selfish and unkind of him
and I can imagine her not wanting to read his excuse after the fact.

That said, I remember well a local businessman, father of a friend,
who committed suicide in his car in a remote area due to business
failure about 15 years ago. He was a staunch Catholic and at his
funeral mass the priest said "Do not condemn him for what he did because
we can't know what was in his mind. Imagine him hanging out the top
floor of a burning building and his only possible alternative was to jump."

I didn't agree with the analysis at the time and still don't because he
was a beloved husband, father and grandfather to a whole hoard of family
(he had 8 grown children.) It seems to me that those kinds of suicides
are self-indulgent, selfish, and don't take into account at all the
effect they will have on loved ones. I couldn't do that to my family no
matter how bad things got.

gloria p
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"Gloria P" > wrote in message>
> He could have prepared her at least. That was selfish and unkind of him
> and I can imagine her not wanting to read his excuse after the fact.


He probably looked at it the opposite way, a means of saving her a lot of
anguish, expecially if she knew it was a possibility.


>
> It seems to me that those kinds of suicides are self-indulgent, selfish,
> and don't take into account at all the effect they will have on loved
> ones.


Same here. I'm certainly not an expert on the subject, but some of the
perpatrators think they are helping those left behind, saving them from the
shame of their deed or the care needed for their illness.



>I couldn't do that to my family no matter how bad things got.


I couldn't do it to myself under any circumstance. Besides, I'm chicken;
what if it did not work and I had to live with myself after, possibly
suffering with greater pain from the injury?




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On Sat, 5 Sep 2009 12:43:04 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski" >
wrote:

>I couldn't do it to myself under any circumstance. Besides, I'm chicken;
>what if it did not work and I had to live with myself after, possibly
>suffering with greater pain from the injury?


Lemme tell you, when they're committed to suicide they don't talk
about it to anyone.

My esSIL *did* try to commit suicide. She has a magnetic personality,
so people call her all the time and visit too. She was unavailable by
phone or door for 24+ hours so someone finally got the police to break
the door down. She had shot the dog, taken a bottle of sleeping
pills, drank a bottle of booze and slit her wrists.

She called me from Bellevue in shackles, with an armed guard outside
her door, because shooting a gun (especially inside an apartment) is
illegal - as is committing suicide... live through it and you're in
big trouble with the law. Well, she did live and she's glad she did.
She finally found a Dr. who could tell her about her depression, so
she knows now how not to get that depressed anymore. We're glad we
didn't lose her. I think she heard from too many people who love her
saying how upset they were at the very thought of losing her that
she's making sure she never sinks into a deep of a depression again.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.
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"Wayne Boatwright" schrieb :
> On Sat 05 Sep 2009 08:32:06a, Gloria P told us...
>
>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>> On Thu 03 Sep 2009 06:15:42a, Jean B. told us...

>>
>>>>>
>>>> That must have been very hard on his wife. I hope she concurred
>>>> with his plan, and it didn't just come as a most-dreadful shock to
>>>> her.
>>>
>>> His wife was totally unaware of his plan, if fact was at the beauty
>>> salon when it happened. When she arrived home and opened the back
>>> door, she sensed something was wrong and came next door to get my
>>> mother. My mother looked all through the house before going to the
>>> basement where she found him. When told of what happened, his wife sat
>>> motionless for hours, apparently in shock. When she went upstairs to
>>> the bedrooms, she discovered a note on her son's dresser that her
>>> husband had written. My mother was with her, and watched as she tore
>>> the note (unread) into many pieces. The couple were in their 70's, and
>>> I was much too young at that time to read her emotions and actions.
>>>

>>
>>
>>
>> He could have prepared her at least. That was selfish and unkind of him
>> and I can imagine her not wanting to read his excuse after the fact.

>
> He was elderly and had been quite ill, though not terminally AFAIK.
> However, I think he felt quite hopeless and was probably clinically
> depressed. in the mid-1950s it was something you didn't talk about.
>
> The note was meant for their late-20s son, not his wife.
>
> The family was also staunch Catholic, too. His wife would often say that
> he would spend eternity in purgatory.

<snip>
The wife was at best pseudo-Catholic.
You can't spend eternity in purgatory. You spend some time there until
your sins are (ex)purged. Then you go to heaven.

Cheers,

Michael Kuettner





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"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 5 Sep 2009 12:43:04 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski" >
> wrote:
>
>>I couldn't do it to myself under any circumstance. Besides, I'm chicken;
>>what if it did not work and I had to live with myself after, possibly
>>suffering with greater pain from the injury?

>
> Lemme tell you, when they're committed to suicide they don't talk
> about it to anyone.


That's not true. My ex sil threatened suicide constantly and made many
attempts (overdosing was her MO), at least a dozen times I visited her in
the hospital, I'm sure there were many more times I don't know about.
Eventually she succeeded. She wasn't quite forty years old, she left two
young teens and an abusive husband... she believed with all her heart she
was trapped, but only she believed she was ball and chained. She was
offered a great deal of help by many people, she had many ways out, she
chose the coward's way.



> My esSIL *did* try to commit suicide.


If she made the attempt (especially that she failed) then she communicated
her desire to commit suicide

She has a magnetic personality,
> so people call her all the time and visit too. She was unavailable by
> phone or door for 24+ hours so someone finally got the police to break
> the door down. She had shot the dog, taken a bottle of sleeping
> pills, drank a bottle of booze and slit her wrists.
>
> She called me from Bellevue in shackles, with an armed guard outside
> her door, because shooting a gun (especially inside an apartment) is
> illegal - as is committing suicide... live through it and you're in
> big trouble with the law. Well, she did live and she's glad she did.
> She finally found a Dr. who could tell her about her depression, so
> she knows now how not to get that depressed anymore. We're glad we
> didn't lose her. I think she heard from too many people who love her
> saying how upset they were at the very thought of losing her that
> she's making sure she never sinks into a deep of a depression again.
>
>



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Michael Kuettner wrote:

>>>
>>>
>>> He could have prepared her at least. That was selfish and unkind of him
>>> and I can imagine her not wanting to read his excuse after the fact.

>>
>> He was elderly and had been quite ill, though not terminally AFAIK.
>> However, I think he felt quite hopeless and was probably clinically
>> depressed. in the mid-1950s it was something you didn't talk about.
>>
>> The note was meant for their late-20s son, not his wife.
>>
>> The family was also staunch Catholic, too. His wife would often say that
>> he would spend eternity in purgatory.

> <snip>
> The wife was at best pseudo-Catholic.
> You can't spend eternity in purgatory. You spend some time there until
> your sins are (ex)purged. Then you go to heaven.


The Catholic Church, being the way it is, thinks it can speed things
along with sufficient monetary gifts to the church. It was policies like
that that led to the Protestant Reformation. People started questioning
the church's revenue generation schemes, like selling indulgences.
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brooklyn1 wrote:

>>> I couldn't do it to myself under any circumstance. Besides, I'm chicken;
>>> what if it did not work and I had to live with myself after, possibly
>>> suffering with greater pain from the injury?

>> Lemme tell you, when they're committed to suicide they don't talk
>> about it to anyone.

>
> That's not true. My ex sil threatened suicide constantly and made many
> attempts (overdosing was her MO), at least a dozen times I visited her in
> the hospital, I'm sure there were many more times I don't know about.
> Eventually she succeeded. She wasn't quite forty years old, she left two
> young teens and an abusive husband... she believed with all her heart she
> was trapped, but only she believed she was ball and chained. She was
> offered a great deal of help by many people, she had many ways out, she
> chose the coward's way.


Perhaps there are no hard and fast rules on whether or not they talk
about it before doing it, either serious attempts or strangely
manipulative unsuccessful <?> attempts at it. There are different types
of conditions that can lead to suicide. Some people are so dispondent
that they truly want to die and may discuss it with people, and others
are sadly manipulative about it that they threaten and make lame
attempts for attention.


My brother in law's ex-wife (now late ex-wife) made numerous attempts on
her own life. She was a severe manic-depressive. Some of her attempts
were feeble, attention getting stunts and others were serious attempts.
As she got older, despite her many attempts at suicide, she apparently
started to level of and become a little more sane and dropped dead of
natural causes.
>
>
>
>> My esSIL *did* try to commit suicide.

>
> If she made the attempt (especially that she failed) then she communicated
> her desire to commit suicide


Sometimes, it is harder to kill yourself than some people think, and
sometimes it turns out to be easier. You can try to overdose yourself
and end up puking up all the medication. Then again, you might try to
scare people with a fake attempt and actually do yourself in.


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"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
...
> brooklyn1 wrote:

Someone says:
> >>
>>> Lemme tell you, when they're committed to suicide they don't talk
>>> about it to anyone.

>>
>> That's not true.

>
> Perhaps there are no hard and fast rules on whether or not they talk about
> it before doing it, either serious attempts or strangely manipulative
> unsuccessful <?> attempts at it. There are different types of conditions
> that can lead to suicide. Some people are so dispondent that they truly
> want to die and may discuss it with people, and others are sadly
> manipulative about it that they threaten and make lame attempts for
> attention.
>
>
> My brother in law's ex-wife (now late ex-wife) made numerous attempts on
> her own life. She was a severe manic-depressive. Some of her attempts were
> feeble, attention getting stunts and others were serious attempts. As she
> got older, despite her many attempts at suicide, she apparently started to
> level of and become a little more sane and dropped dead of natural causes.
>>
>>
>>
>>> My esSIL *did* try to commit suicide.

>>
>> If she made the attempt (especially that she failed) then she
>> communicated her desire to commit suicide

>
> Sometimes, it is harder to kill yourself than some people think, and
> sometimes it turns out to be easier. You can try to overdose yourself and
> end up puking up all the medication. Then again, you might try to scare
> people with a fake attempt and actually do yourself in.


Every situation is different, that's why I responded to that silly blanket
statement.


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"brooklyn1" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dave Smith" > wrote in message
> ...
>> brooklyn1 wrote:

> Someone says:
>> >>
>>>> Lemme tell you, when they're committed to suicide they don't talk
>>>> about it to anyone.
>>>
>>> That's not true.

>>
>> Perhaps there are no hard and fast rules on whether or not they talk
>> about it before doing it, either serious attempts or strangely
>> manipulative unsuccessful <?> attempts at it. There are different types
>> of conditions that can lead to suicide. Some people are so dispondent
>> that they truly want to die and may discuss it with people, and others
>> are sadly manipulative about it that they threaten and make lame attempts
>> for attention.
>>
>>
>> My brother in law's ex-wife (now late ex-wife) made numerous attempts on
>> her own life. She was a severe manic-depressive. Some of her attempts
>> were feeble, attention getting stunts and others were serious attempts.
>> As she got older, despite her many attempts at suicide, she apparently
>> started to level of and become a little more sane and dropped dead of
>> natural causes.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> My esSIL *did* try to commit suicide.
>>>
>>> If she made the attempt (especially that she failed) then she
>>> communicated her desire to commit suicide

>>
>> Sometimes, it is harder to kill yourself than some people think, and
>> sometimes it turns out to be easier. You can try to overdose yourself and
>> end up puking up all the medication. Then again, you might try to scare
>> people with a fake attempt and actually do yourself in.

>
> Every situation is different, that's why I responded to that silly blanket
> statement.
>


my old housekeepers kid tried to hang himself off a bridge and managed to
live the next 7 years as a quadriplegic. what a ****ing idiot.

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"skeeter" > wrote in message
...
>
> "brooklyn1" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Dave Smith" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> brooklyn1 wrote:

>> Someone says:
>>> >>
>>>>> Lemme tell you, when they're committed to suicide they don't talk
>>>>> about it to anyone.
>>>>
>>>> That's not true.
>>>
>>> Perhaps there are no hard and fast rules on whether or not they talk
>>> about it before doing it, either serious attempts or strangely
>>> manipulative unsuccessful <?> attempts at it. There are different types
>>> of conditions that can lead to suicide. Some people are so dispondent
>>> that they truly want to die and may discuss it with people, and others
>>> are sadly manipulative about it that they threaten and make lame
>>> attempts for attention.
>>>
>>>
>>> My brother in law's ex-wife (now late ex-wife) made numerous attempts on
>>> her own life. She was a severe manic-depressive. Some of her attempts
>>> were feeble, attention getting stunts and others were serious attempts.
>>> As she got older, despite her many attempts at suicide, she apparently
>>> started to level of and become a little more sane and dropped dead of
>>> natural causes.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> My esSIL *did* try to commit suicide.
>>>>
>>>> If she made the attempt (especially that she failed) then she
>>>> communicated her desire to commit suicide
>>>
>>> Sometimes, it is harder to kill yourself than some people think, and
>>> sometimes it turns out to be easier. You can try to overdose yourself
>>> and end up puking up all the medication. Then again, you might try to
>>> scare people with a fake attempt and actually do yourself in.

>>
>> Every situation is different, that's why I responded to that silly
>> blanket statement.
>>

>
> my old housekeepers kid tried to hang himself off a bridge and managed to
> live the next 7 years as a quadriplegic. what a ****ing idiot.


I hear Obamination is going to appoint a death squad Czar:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Kevorkian




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"skeeter" > wrote in message
...
>
> "brooklyn1" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Dave Smith" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> brooklyn1 wrote:

>> Someone says:
>>> >>
>>>>> Lemme tell you, when they're committed to suicide they don't talk
>>>>> about it to anyone.
>>>>
>>>> That's not true.
>>>
>>> Perhaps there are no hard and fast rules on whether or not they talk
>>> about it before doing it, either serious attempts or strangely
>>> manipulative unsuccessful <?> attempts at it. There are different types
>>> of conditions that can lead to suicide. Some people are so dispondent
>>> that they truly want to die and may discuss it with people, and others
>>> are sadly manipulative about it that they threaten and make lame
>>> attempts for attention.
>>>
>>>
>>> My brother in law's ex-wife (now late ex-wife) made numerous attempts on
>>> her own life. She was a severe manic-depressive. Some of her attempts
>>> were feeble, attention getting stunts and others were serious attempts.
>>> As she got older, despite her many attempts at suicide, she apparently
>>> started to level of and become a little more sane and dropped dead of
>>> natural causes.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> My esSIL *did* try to commit suicide.
>>>>
>>>> If she made the attempt (especially that she failed) then she
>>>> communicated her desire to commit suicide
>>>
>>> Sometimes, it is harder to kill yourself than some people think, and
>>> sometimes it turns out to be easier. You can try to overdose yourself
>>> and end up puking up all the medication. Then again, you might try to
>>> scare people with a fake attempt and actually do yourself in.

>>
>> Every situation is different, that's why I responded to that silly
>> blanket statement.
>>

>
> my old housekeepers kid tried to hang himself off a bridge and managed to
> live the next 7 years as a quadriplegic. what a ****ing idiot.


Some of you milk of human kindness just got on my monitor. Asshole.


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skeeter wrote:
>


>>

>
> my old housekeepers kid tried to hang himself off a bridge and managed
> to live the next 7 years as a quadriplegic. what a ****ing idiot.




You've never been depressed, have you?

There are still people who don't believe in treating depression.
Unfortunately some of them are doctors. :-(

gloria p


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"Dave Smith" schrieb :
> Michael Kuettner wrote:
>

<snip>
>> The wife was at best pseudo-Catholic.
>> You can't spend eternity in purgatory. You spend some time there until
>> your sins are (ex)purged. Then you go to heaven.

>
> The Catholic Church, being the way it is, thinks it can speed things
> along with sufficient monetary gifts to the church. It was policies like
> that that led to the Protestant Reformation. People started questioning
> the church's revenue generation schemes, like selling indulgences.


Yes and no. The indulgences weren't sold by the church; they were
mostly sold by the Fugger. That "tax farming" privilege was given to
them because the popes were in big debt - the cathedral in Rome was
enormously expensive, eg.
The aggressive sell - tactics of the Ablasskraemer (indulgence salesmen)
esp. Tetzel, were one of the reasons for the Reformation, yes.

Cheers,

Michael Kuettner








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On Sat, 05 Sep 2009 22:32:37 GMT, brooklyn1 wrote:
>
> I hear Obamination is going to appoint a death squad Czar:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Kevorkian


you hear a lot of stupid shit, don't you? and lap it up like cream.

blake
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"blake murphy" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 05 Sep 2009 22:32:37 GMT, brooklyn1 wrote:
>>
>> I hear Obamination is going to appoint a death squad Czar:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Kevorkian

>
> you hear a lot of stupid shit, don't you? and lap it up like cream.
>
> blake


The deaths quad stuff is a bunch of shit, but since this is from Congress,
it seems very real and is very scary to think of the power of the government
over our lives
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=G44NCvNDLfc


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"blake murphy" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 05 Sep 2009 22:32:37 GMT, brooklyn1 wrote:
>>
>> I hear Obamination is going to appoint a death squad Czar:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Kevorkian

>
> you hear a lot of stupid shit, don't you? and lap it up like cream.
>


I WANT TO BE THE DEATH CZAR!!

CYBERCAT FOR DEATH CZAR!!1!

don't tell me there is not going to be a death czar ...


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"cybercat" > wrote in message >
> I WANT TO BE THE DEATH CZAR!!
>
> CYBERCAT FOR DEATH CZAR!!1!
>
> don't tell me there is not going to be a death czar ...


Please submit a lit of names for approval so the Cabal can confirm or deny
your nomination.




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"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
>
> "cybercat" > wrote in message >
>> I WANT TO BE THE DEATH CZAR!!
>>
>> CYBERCAT FOR DEATH CZAR!!1!
>>
>> don't tell me there is not going to be a death czar ...

>
> Please submit a lit of names for approval so the Cabal can confirm or deny
> your nomination.
>

TINC. Emperor Obama will appoint me Death Czar!


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"skeeter" > wrote in message
...
>>

>
> my old housekeepers kid tried to hang himself off a bridge and managed to
> live the next 7 years as a quadriplegic. what a ****ing idiot.


When I was about 25 I lost a good friend to suicide who was about 18. He
was like a little brother to me. The day he hanged himself, he tried to
talk to me but I was busy with my boyfriend at that time, and I pretty much
blew him off. His death haunted me for the longest time because I never saw
any sign of depression in him. Never saw it coming. I wondered if there
was something I missed. I hated myself for not having time for him that
day.

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"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
>
> "cybercat" > wrote in message >
>> I WANT TO BE THE DEATH CZAR!!
>>
>> CYBERCAT FOR DEATH CZAR!!1!
>>
>> don't tell me there is not going to be a death czar ...

>
> Please submit a lit of names for approval so the Cabal can confirm or deny
> your nomination.
>

I first her nomination.

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"Cheryl" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "cybercat" > wrote in message >
>>> I WANT TO BE THE DEATH CZAR!!
>>>
>>> CYBERCAT FOR DEATH CZAR!!1!
>>>
>>> don't tell me there is not going to be a death czar ...

>>
>> Please submit a lit of names for approval so the Cabal can confirm or
>> deny your nomination.
>>

> I first her nomination.


I am honored that you see my true calling. *bowing*


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"Cheryl" > wrote:
> "skeeter" > wrote:
>>
>> my old housekeepers kid tried to hang himself off a bridge and managed to
>> live the next 7 years as a quadriplegic. what a ****ing idiot.

>
> When I was about 25 I lost a good friend to suicide who was about 18. He
> was like a little brother to me.


Gee, that would be like me palling around with you and you're 25, my taking
you to the movies, hanging at the mall buying you stuff and my telling
folks you're like a daughter to me... who on this newsgroup do you think,
besides the Ozarks crowd, would believe me?

>The day he hanged himself, he tried to talk to me but I was busy with my
>boyfriend at that time, and I pretty much blew him off. His death haunted
>me for the longest time because I never saw any sign of depression in him.
>Never saw it coming. I wondered if there was something I missed. I hated
>myself for not having time for him that day.


Hmm, I doubt it was just "time" you didn't have for him that day.

Seven years is a big difference at those ages. When a 25 year old female is
good friends with an 18 year old male you can bet your bippee that the
attraction moved way beyond sibling/platonic, at least in his mind... you
had to be asleep or didn't really consider him the good friend he considered
you. I'd be curious to know how long you considered him a good friend (it
takes a year or more before people can move beyond aquaintence to friend,
and even longer to become *good* friends) because a mature woman has no
business being chummy with a young teenage boy lest there's hanky panky
going on... were the ages reversed and he went around telling folks he
considered you like his [loving] "little sister" more than eyebrows would
have been raised. So are you making up a typical usenet *I can top your
story* fairytale or are you just another child molester in our midst? If
you were good friends (or even just aquaintences) for even three months
there's no way I'd believe you weren't in that boy's pants. So how old was
the boyfriend you were cavorting with at the time of that frantic phone
call, fourteen? I'm sure you miss a lot, you're not very perceptive. I
feel sorry for that 18 year old but I don't believe it occured (if it
occured) as you related it... I'm hoping you're lying.





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On Sun, 6 Sep 2009 15:21:04 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

> "blake murphy" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Sat, 05 Sep 2009 22:32:37 GMT, brooklyn1 wrote:
>>>
>>> I hear Obamination is going to appoint a death squad Czar:
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Kevorkian

>>
>> you hear a lot of stupid shit, don't you? and lap it up like cream.
>>
>> blake

>
> The deaths quad stuff is a bunch of shit, but since this is from Congress,
> it seems very real and is very scary to think of the power of the government
> over our lives
> http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=G44NCvNDLfc


i don't find him convincing at all. frankly, the 'private sector' doesn't
seem to be 'the part that's working,' and i don't think the new plan would
'punish' those who already have coverage - if you like what you have you
get to keep it.

let's just remember, we now pay twice per capita what other advanced
countries pay:

<http://digitalcommons.ilr.cornell.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1316&context=key_workplace >

for worse results in longevity:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy>

and infant mortality:

<http://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?c=bg&v=29>

courtesy of the 'private sector.'

like i said before, would you pay twice as much for a worse product just
because it was american? do you think it's a good idea to force everyone
to do so?

your pal,
blake
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On Sun, 6 Sep 2009 16:12:40 -0400, cybercat wrote:

> "blake murphy" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Sat, 05 Sep 2009 22:32:37 GMT, brooklyn1 wrote:
>>>
>>> I hear Obamination is going to appoint a death squad Czar:
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Kevorkian

>>
>> you hear a lot of stupid shit, don't you? and lap it up like cream.
>>

>
> I WANT TO BE THE DEATH CZAR!!
>
> CYBERCAT FOR DEATH CZAR!!1!
>
> don't tell me there is not going to be a death czar ...


we feed 'em crisco, yo.

your pal,
bobo
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On Sun, 6 Sep 2009 18:43:36 -0400, cybercat wrote:

> "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "cybercat" > wrote in message >
>>> I WANT TO BE THE DEATH CZAR!!
>>>
>>> CYBERCAT FOR DEATH CZAR!!1!
>>>
>>> don't tell me there is not going to be a death czar ...

>>
>> Please submit a lit of names for approval so the Cabal can confirm or deny
>> your nomination.
>>

> TINC. Emperor Obama will appoint me Death Czar!


good thing i've been trying to stay on your good side.

your pal,
blake
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On Sun, 6 Sep 2009 22:39:55 -0400, Cheryl wrote:

> "skeeter" > wrote in message
> ...
>>>

>>
>> my old housekeepers kid tried to hang himself off a bridge and managed to
>> live the next 7 years as a quadriplegic. what a ****ing idiot.

>
> When I was about 25 I lost a good friend to suicide who was about 18. He
> was like a little brother to me. The day he hanged himself, he tried to
> talk to me but I was busy with my boyfriend at that time, and I pretty much
> blew him off. His death haunted me for the longest time because I never saw
> any sign of depression in him. Never saw it coming. I wondered if there
> was something I missed. I hated myself for not having time for him that
> day.


unless you tied the knot or handed him the gun, i think self-recriminations
for what one should have/could have done are pretty bootless. one's
influence on other human actors is at bottom pretty limited.

(this goes double for parents of addicts, alcoholics, or other
self-destructive types. don't beat yourself up - it ain't your fault.)

your pal,
blake
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"brooklyn1" > wrote in message
...
> "Cheryl" > wrote:
>> "skeeter" > wrote:
>>>
>>> my old housekeepers kid tried to hang himself off a bridge and managed
>>> to live the next 7 years as a quadriplegic. what a ****ing idiot.

>>
>> When I was about 25 I lost a good friend to suicide who was about 18. He
>> was like a little brother to me.

>
> Gee, that would be like me palling around with you and you're 25, my
> taking you to the movies, hanging at the mall buying you stuff and my
> telling folks you're like a daughter to me... who on this newsgroup do you
> think, besides the Ozarks crowd, would believe me?
>
>>The day he hanged himself, he tried to talk to me but I was busy with my
>>boyfriend at that time, and I pretty much blew him off. His death haunted
>>me for the longest time because I never saw any sign of depression in him.
>>Never saw it coming. I wondered if there was something I missed. I hated
>>myself for not having time for him that day.

>
> Hmm, I doubt it was just "time" you didn't have for him that day.
>
> Seven years is a big difference at those ages. When a 25 year old female
> is good friends with an 18 year old male you can bet your bippee that the
> attraction moved way beyond sibling/platonic, at least in his mind... you
> had to be asleep or didn't really consider him the good friend he
> considered you. I'd be curious to know how long you considered him a good
> friend (it takes a year or more before people can move beyond aquaintence
> to friend, and even longer to become *good* friends) because a mature
> woman has no business being chummy with a young teenage boy lest there's
> hanky panky going on... were the ages reversed and he went around telling
> folks he considered you like his [loving] "little sister" more than
> eyebrows would have been raised. So are you making up a typical usenet *I
> can top your story* fairytale or are you just another child molester in
> our midst? If you were good friends (or even just aquaintences) for even
> three months there's no way I'd believe you weren't in that boy's pants.
> So how old was the boyfriend you were cavorting with at the time of that
> frantic phone call, fourteen? I'm sure you miss a lot, you're not very
> perceptive. I feel sorry for that 18 year old but I don't believe it
> occured (if it occured) as you related it... I'm hoping you're lying.


Not everyone thinks like you do. We were long time family friends.



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"blake murphy" > wrote in message
>> it seems very real and is very scary to think of the power of the
>> government
>> over our lives
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=G44NCvNDLfc

>
> i don't find him convincing at all. frankly, the 'private sector' doesn't
> seem to be 'the part that's working,' and i don't think the new plan would
> 'punish' those who already have coverage - if you like what you have you
> get to keep it.


But from what this congressman said, the government can decide to takit from
you. Does that sound like a fair plan? He has a copy of the bill to quote
from, I don't.

>
> let's just remember, we now pay twice per capita what other advanced
> countries pay:


>
> like i said before, would you pay twice as much for a worse product just
> because it was american? do you think it's a good idea to force everyone
> to do so?


The system we have definitely needs reform in many areas. Did you happen to
see on the news (NBC) last night about the $79 a month clinic? No
insurance, no forms, just a flat fee no matter how many doctor visits.

I'm certainly not against change and more coverage for more people, but I
still want the details of how and the cost before saying yes or no.


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"Cheryl" > wrote in message
...
>
> "brooklyn1" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Cheryl" > wrote:
>>> "skeeter" > wrote:
>>>>
>>>> my old housekeepers kid tried to hang himself off a bridge and managed
>>>> to live the next 7 years as a quadriplegic. what a ****ing idiot.
>>>
>>> When I was about 25 I lost a good friend to suicide who was about 18.
>>> He was like a little brother to me.

>>
>> Gee, that would be like me palling around with you and you're 25, my
>> taking you to the movies, hanging at the mall buying you stuff and my
>> telling folks you're like a daughter to me... who on this newsgroup do
>> you think, besides the Ozarks crowd, would believe me?
>>
>>>The day he hanged himself, he tried to talk to me but I was busy with my
>>>boyfriend at that time, and I pretty much blew him off. His death
>>>haunted me for the longest time because I never saw any sign of
>>>depression in him. Never saw it coming. I wondered if there was
>>>something I missed. I hated myself for not having time for him that day.

>>
>> Hmm, I doubt it was just "time" you didn't have for him that day.
>>
>> Seven years is a big difference at those ages. When a 25 year old female
>> is good friends with an 18 year old male you can bet your bippee that the
>> attraction moved way beyond sibling/platonic, at least in his mind... you
>> had to be asleep or didn't really consider him the good friend he
>> considered you. I'd be curious to know how long you considered him a
>> good friend (it takes a year or more before people can move beyond
>> aquaintence to friend, and even longer to become *good* friends) because
>> a mature woman has no business being chummy with a young teenage boy lest
>> there's hanky panky going on... were the ages reversed and he went around
>> telling folks he considered you like his [loving] "little sister" more
>> than eyebrows would have been raised. So are you making up a typical
>> usenet *I can top your story* fairytale or are you just another child
>> molester in our midst? If you were good friends (or even just
>> aquaintences) for even three months there's no way I'd believe you
>> weren't in that boy's pants. So how old was the boyfriend you were
>> cavorting with at the time of that frantic phone call, fourteen? I'm
>> sure you miss a lot, you're not very perceptive. I feel sorry for that
>> 18 year old but I don't believe it occured (if it occured) as you related
>> it... I'm hoping you're lying.

>
> Not everyone thinks like you do. We were long time family friends.

Yeah, right... kissing cousins. LOL


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"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
>
> "blake murphy" > wrote in message
>>> it seems very real and is very scary to think of the power of the
>>> government
>>> over our lives
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=G44NCvNDLfc

>>
>> i don't find him convincing at all. frankly, the 'private sector'
>> doesn't
>> seem to be 'the part that's working,' and i don't think the new plan
>> would
>> 'punish' those who already have coverage - if you like what you have you
>> get to keep it.

>
> But from what this congressman said, the government can decide to takit
> from you. Does that sound like a fair plan? He has a copy of the bill
> to quote from, I don't.
>
>>
>> let's just remember, we now pay twice per capita what other advanced
>> countries pay:

>
>>
>> like i said before, would you pay twice as much for a worse product just
>> because it was american? do you think it's a good idea to force everyone
>> to do so?

>
> The system we have definitely needs reform in many areas. Did you happen
> to see on the news (NBC) last night about the $79 a month clinic? No
> insurance, no forms, just a flat fee no matter how many doctor visits.
>
> I'm certainly not against change and more coverage for more people, but I
> still want the details of how and the cost before saying yes or no.
>


Reasonable.


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"Cheryl" > wrote in message
...
>
> "brooklyn1" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Cheryl" > wrote:
>>> "skeeter" > wrote:
>>>>
>>>> my old housekeepers kid tried to hang himself off a bridge and managed
>>>> to live the next 7 years as a quadriplegic. what a ****ing idiot.
>>>
>>> When I was about 25 I lost a good friend to suicide who was about 18.
>>> He was like a little brother to me.

>>
>> Gee, that would be like me palling around with you and you're 25, my
>> taking you to the movies, hanging at the mall buying you stuff and my
>> telling folks you're like a daughter to me... who on this newsgroup do
>> you think, besides the Ozarks crowd, would believe me?
>>
>>>The day he hanged himself, he tried to talk to me but I was busy with my
>>>boyfriend at that time, and I pretty much blew him off. His death
>>>haunted me for the longest time because I never saw any sign of
>>>depression in him. Never saw it coming. I wondered if there was
>>>something I missed. I hated myself for not having time for him that day.

>>
>> Hmm, I doubt it was just "time" you didn't have for him that day.
>>
>> Seven years is a big difference at those ages. When a 25 year old female
>> is good friends with an 18 year old male you can bet your bippee that the
>> attraction moved way beyond sibling/platonic, at least in his mind... you
>> had to be asleep or didn't really consider him the good friend he
>> considered you. I'd be curious to know how long you considered him a
>> good friend (it takes a year or more before people can move beyond
>> aquaintence to friend, and even longer to become *good* friends) because
>> a mature woman has no business being chummy with a young teenage boy lest
>> there's hanky panky going on... were the ages reversed and he went around
>> telling folks he considered you like his [loving] "little sister" more
>> than eyebrows would have been raised. So are you making up a typical
>> usenet *I can top your story* fairytale or are you just another child
>> molester in our midst? If you were good friends (or even just
>> aquaintences) for even three months there's no way I'd believe you
>> weren't in that boy's pants. So how old was the boyfriend you were
>> cavorting with at the time of that frantic phone call, fourteen? I'm
>> sure you miss a lot, you're not very perceptive. I feel sorry for that
>> 18 year old but I don't believe it occured (if it occured) as you related
>> it... I'm hoping you're lying.

>
> Not everyone thinks like you do. We were long time family friends.


Honest to goodness, I loathe this man.


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"blake murphy" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 6 Sep 2009 18:43:36 -0400, cybercat wrote:
>
>> "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "cybercat" > wrote in message >
>>>> I WANT TO BE THE DEATH CZAR!!
>>>>
>>>> CYBERCAT FOR DEATH CZAR!!1!
>>>>
>>>> don't tell me there is not going to be a death czar ...
>>>
>>> Please submit a lit of names for approval so the Cabal can confirm or
>>> deny
>>> your nomination.
>>>

>> TINC. Emperor Obama will appoint me Death Czar!

>
> good thing i've been trying to stay on your good side.
>


I KNOW!


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