<sf> wrote in message ...
> On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 19:45:42 -0400, "Dee Dee" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Virginia Tadrzynski" > wrote in message
. ..
>>>
>>
>>I don't react to Bobby the way some people do, I think he's OK, and I
>>like
>>the throwdowns; I'll watch all of the Iron Chef America's that he's in.
>>
> I don't understand why people are obsessed with "Throw Down" which I
> never watch and "Iron Chef" which I almost never watch. What about
> his other shows?
> Hot Off the Grill
> FoodNation
> Boy Meets Grill
> BBQ with Bobby Flay
>
> The one I seem to see the most is Boy Meets Grill - and I like it.
>
Flay's covering all bases :-)
I don't watch the ones mentioned above -- I've tuned in, but don't care for
them.
So, I guess he's got something for many.
It must be the competition for me -- as the two I like are of that sort.
Dee Dee

On Aug 17, 8:24 pm, "JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote:
> "Steve Wertz" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 16:58:51 -0700, LarbGai wrote:
>
> >> How is it that everytime Bobby Flay cooks on Iron Chef he wins???
> >> Most times the other chef is streets ahead but Bobby always wins.
>
> > Flay lost his first Iron Chef to Morimoto, and won the second
> > battle. But he's still a loser no matter what he does.
>
> > If he's still appearing on Iron Chef, then I haven't seen it. Is
> > there even still an Iron Chef America? I haven't turned on
> > FoodTV in a couple years, but almost always had it on from
> > 2000-2003.
>
> > -sw
>
> Why the animosity toward Flay? Is he banging your wife/sister/mother?

I've never gotten a definitive answer to that question. To me, he
wins Iron Chef because of the textures, tastes and layers of flavor
that he develops in his dishes, at least that's what the judges
compliment him on. I like the guy.

N.

"Nancy2" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> On Aug 17, 8:24 pm, "JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote:
>> "Steve Wertz" > wrote in message
>>
>> ...
>>
>> > On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 16:58:51 -0700, LarbGai wrote:
>>
>> >> How is it that everytime Bobby Flay cooks on Iron Chef he wins???
>> >> Most times the other chef is streets ahead but Bobby always wins.
>>
>> > Flay lost his first Iron Chef to Morimoto, and won the second
>> > battle. But he's still a loser no matter what he does.
>>
>> > If he's still appearing on Iron Chef, then I haven't seen it. Is
>> > there even still an Iron Chef America? I haven't turned on
>> > FoodTV in a couple years, but almost always had it on from
>> > 2000-2003.
>>
>> > -sw
>>
>> Why the animosity toward Flay? Is he banging your wife/sister/mother?
>
> I've never gotten a definitive answer to that question. To me, he
> wins Iron Chef because of the textures, tastes and layers of flavor
> that he develops in his dishes, at least that's what the judges
> compliment him on. I like the guy.
>
> N.
>

It's jealousy, I think.

On 2007-08-20, Nancy2 > wrote:

> I've never gotten a definitive answer to that question.

He advocates boiling ribs for bbq.

nb

"notbob" > wrote in message
. ..
> On 2007-08-20, Nancy2 > wrote:
>
>> I've never gotten a definitive answer to that question.
>
> He advocates boiling ribs for bbq.
>
> nb

It's one of several methods which work, if you do it right.

On 2007-08-20, JoeSpareBedroom > wrote:

> It's one of several methods which work, if you do it right.

Boiling meat is how you make meat stock. If you want to leach flavor
out of your meat, be my guest. In my experience, meat is flaverless
enough as it is without making it worse.

nb

"notbob" > wrote in message
. ..
> On 2007-08-20, JoeSpareBedroom > wrote:
>
>> It's one of several methods which work, if you do it right.
>
> Boiling meat is how you make meat stock. If you want to leach flavor
> out of your meat, be my guest. In my experience, meat is flaverless
> enough as it is without making it worse.
>
> nb

Depends on how you parboil it, obviously. I've done it with ribs and
finished them on the grill. They were spectacular.

On 2007-08-20, JoeSpareBedroom > wrote:

> Depends on how you parboil it, obviously.

Oh?

To paraphrase Joe Pesci in My Cousin Vinnie, do the laws of physics
cease to exist on YOUR stove. Does water boil differently on YOUR
stove than on any other stove on the face of the Earth? Is this a
magic stove?

nb

"notbob" > wrote in message
. ..
> On 2007-08-20, JoeSpareBedroom > wrote:
>
>> Depends on how you parboil it, obviously.
>
> Oh?
>
> To paraphrase Joe Pesci in My Cousin Vinnie, do the laws of physics
> cease to exist on YOUR stove. Does water boil differently on YOUR
> stove than on any other stove on the face of the Earth? Is this a
> magic stove?
>
> nb

Stop being silly right this minute. :-)


You can boil longer, or shorter. You can spice the water as you would for
crayfish, for instance. There are plenty of variables.

In article >,
"JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote:

> "notbob" > wrote in message
> . ..
> > On 2007-08-20, Nancy2 > wrote:
> >
> >> I've never gotten a definitive answer to that question.
> >
> > He advocates boiling ribs for bbq.
> >
> > nb
>
> It's one of several methods which work, if you do it right.

I have actually seen that... but it cannot be classified as "true BBQ".
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

In article >,
notbob > wrote:

> On 2007-08-20, JoeSpareBedroom > wrote:
>
> > It's one of several methods which work, if you do it right.
>
> Boiling meat is how you make meat stock. If you want to leach flavor
> out of your meat, be my guest. In my experience, meat is flaverless
> enough as it is without making it worse.
>
> nb

Meat is flavorless to you?

Give up the cigarettes and discover a whole new world of flavor. :-)
Ciggys kill taste buds big time.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

notbob wrote:

> On 2007-08-20, Nancy2 > wrote:
>
> > I've never gotten a definitive answer to that question.
>
> He advocates boiling ribs for bbq.

<http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/reci...36_28570,00.ht
ml?rsrc=search>

No mention of boiling there.


<http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/reci...36_34333,00.ht
ml?rsrc=search>

No mention of boiling there.


<http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/reci...36_32748,00.ht
ml?rsrc=search>

No mention of boiling there.





Brian

--
If televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who
won't shut up.
-- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com)

On 2007-08-20, Default User > wrote:

> No mention of boiling there.

> No mention of boiling there.

Perhaps not, but there is no doubt he did it for one of the cooking
magazines several years ago when he did a bbq ribs recipe in a bbq
themed issue. The very first step he instructed was to boil the ribs
in water. I put the magazine down and slowly backed away from the
newsstand. I never picked up that particular rag or purposely watched
BF again. Besides, he strikes me being kind of a pompous ass, anyway.


nb

notbob wrote:

> On 2007-08-20, Default User > wrote:
>
> > No mention of boiling there.
>
> > No mention of boiling there.
>
> Perhaps not, but there is no doubt he did it for one of the cooking
> magazines several years ago when he did a bbq ribs recipe in a bbq
> themed issue. The very first step he instructed was to boil the ribs
> in water. I put the magazine down and slowly backed away from the
> newsstand. I never picked up that particular rag or purposely watched
> BF again.

Or you misremembered. At any rate, the preponderance of Flay's recent
work indicates that he does NOT advocate it. At best you can say he
once did. Perhaps he was educated by another professional.

> Besides, he strikes me being kind of a pompous ass, anyway.

Ah, now we get to the heart of the matter. That's the real problem,
isn't it? You just don't like him, so you'll take any excuse to
denigrate his skills.




Brian

--
If televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who
won't shut up.
-- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com)

On Aug 17, 9:24 pm, "JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote:
> "Steve Wertz" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 16:58:51 -0700, LarbGai wrote:
>
> >> How is it that everytime Bobby Flay cooks on Iron Chef he wins???
> >> Most times the other chef is streets ahead but Bobby always wins.
>
> > Flay lost his first Iron Chef to Morimoto, and won the second
> > battle. But he's still a loser no matter what he does.
>
> > If he's still appearing on Iron Chef, then I haven't seen it. Is
> > there even still an Iron Chef America? I haven't turned on
> > FoodTV in a couple years, but almost always had it on from
> > 2000-2003.
>
> > -sw
>
> Why the animosity toward Flay? Is he banging your wife/sister/mother?

There are rumors about who he's banging, and it's not anyone's wife or
sister or mother!

Speaking for myself, I don't have animosity towards Flay; I'm merely
annoyed by him. His food is Chili's-calibre; his culinary repertoire
is limited; and he's a miserable speaker, constantly garbling his
words and sentences. I saw a show once where he pronounced the word
"chipotle" differently each time he said it. Flay also has the speech
impediment which plagues Jacko; instead of "reputation" Flay says
"weputation." It's very annoying.

On 2007-08-20, Omelet > wrote:

> Meat is flavorless to you?

"flavorless enough". IOW, it doesn't have the flavor it used to and
removing any will only make it less. This is not rocket science.

> Ciggys kill taste buds big time.

I haven't smoked for years.

nb

On 2007-08-20, Default User > wrote:

> Or you misremembered.

I "misremembered" nothing.

> work indicates that he does NOT advocate it.

I wouldn't know, I pay no attention to him.

> At best you can say he once did.

I clarified that in my follow up post.

> Perhaps he was educated by another professional.

Perhaps.

> Ah, now we get to the heart of the matter.

The heart of your matter, maybe.

> isn't it? You just don't like him.....

True enough.

> ....so you'll take any excuse to
> denigrate his skills.

Please point out where I said anything whatsoever about his skills.

You are free to interpret what I said any way you like, just as I am
free to dislike BF, but let's keep the facts straight. He wrote it, I
read it, and I mentioned nothing about his skills. End of story.

nb

notbob wrote:

> On 2007-08-20, Default User > wrote:
>
> > Or you misremembered.
>
> I "misremembered" nothing.

So you say. I'll take it at face value, although the number of times
that people have sworn they remembered something that they didn't is
legion. Unfortunately, this includes myself.

> > work indicates that he does NOT advocate it.
>
> I wouldn't know, I pay no attention to him.

You can read, can't you?

> > ....so you'll take any excuse to
> > denigrate his skills.
>
> Please point out where I said anything whatsoever about his skills.
>
> You are free to interpret what I said any way you like, just as I am
> free to dislike BF, but let's keep the facts straight. He wrote it, I
> read it, and I mentioned nothing about his skills. End of story.

Your post clearly seemed to be dismissive of his cooking skills based
on the claim that he advocated boiling ribs.

Are you stating that he is a skilled cook and chef?



Brian

--
If televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who
won't shut up.
-- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com)

On 2007-08-20, JoeSpareBedroom > wrote:

> You can boil longer, or shorter.

It matters not. There is no special way to boil so nothing happens,
then at some magic momemt in the future, flavor starts leaching out of
the meat into the water. Sorry. You boil, water leaches, flavor
goes. I'll agree if you boil for a shorter period of time, less
flavor will be lost, but it will be lost, nonetheless. To argue
otherwise is folly.

nb

On 2007-08-20, Default User > wrote:

> Your post clearly seemed to be dismissive of his cooking skills based
> on the claim that he advocated boiling ribs.

It "seemed" to you.

> Are you stating that he is a skilled cook and chef?

I said no such thing.

nb

"notbob" > wrote in message
. ..
> On 2007-08-20, JoeSpareBedroom > wrote:
>
>> You can boil longer, or shorter.
>
> It matters not. There is no special way to boil so nothing happens,
> then at some magic momemt in the future, flavor starts leaching out of
> the meat into the water. Sorry. You boil, water leaches, flavor
> goes. I'll agree if you boil for a shorter period of time, less
> flavor will be lost, but it will be lost, nonetheless. To argue
> otherwise is folly.
>
> nb
>


Go here and tell me what you see and why the concept is defective:

http://tinyurl.com/2vbqgw

On 2007-08-21, JoeSpareBedroom > wrote:

> Go here and tell me what you see and why the concept is defective:

I see a lot of added spices. I see nothing defective. What's your
point?

nb

"notbob" > wrote in message
. ..
> On 2007-08-21, JoeSpareBedroom > wrote:
>
>> Go here and tell me what you see and why the concept is defective:
>
> I see a lot of added spices. I see nothing defective. What's your
> point?
>
> nb


The point, Einstein, is that you saw recipes for boiling things. It works
when done right. It does not subtract flavor. If you can cook a pile of half
ounce crayfish this way, you can cook ribs this way, and if done right,
it'll turn out fine. It is not folly, if done right. You said "folly". It's
not always that way.

Just because YOU haven't done it doesn't mean it hasn't been done.

On 2007-08-21, JoeSpareBedroom > wrote:

> The point, Einstein, is that you saw recipes for boiling things. It works
> when done right.

I see you're getting a bit upset by this discussion and taking it
personal. Not a good sign. Let's back up a bit and clarify. What
"works" when done right? Adding a lot of extra spices to hide the
decrease in flavor?

> I does not subtract flavor.

Yes. It does. No one said you can't do other things to add flavor,
which is what is being done in this case.

> If you can cook a pile of half
> ounce crayfish this way, you can cook ribs this way, and if done right,
> it'll turn out fine.

You can cook anything you like this way. No argument, there. It's
also not the issue. You can add all the spices you want. You can
cook it for very short periods of time to lessen the effect. You can
call it fine or you can call me names. None of these alter the basic
fact that when you cook something in water, flavor will leach out into
the water.

nb

"notbob" > wrote in message
. ..
> On 2007-08-21, JoeSpareBedroom > wrote:
>
>> The point, Einstein, is that you saw recipes for boiling things. It works
>> when done right.
>
> I see you're getting a bit upset by this discussion and taking it
> personal. Not a good sign. Let's back up a bit and clarify. What
> "works" when done right? Adding a lot of extra spices to hide the
> decrease in flavor?
>
>> I does not subtract flavor.
>
> Yes. It does. No one said you can't do other things to add flavor,
> which is what is being done in this case.
>
>> If you can cook a pile of half
>> ounce crayfish this way, you can cook ribs this way, and if done right,
>> it'll turn out fine.
>
> You can cook anything you like this way. No argument, there. It's
> also not the issue. You can add all the spices you want. You can
> cook it for very short periods of time to lessen the effect. You can
> call it fine or you can call me names. None of these alter the basic
> fact that when you cook something in water, flavor will leach out into
> the water.
>
> nb


I'll answer this with a question:

If you slow cook ribs in a smoker or on the grill, what is adding flavor?

On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 17:30:19 -0500, notbob > wrote:

>On 2007-08-20, Default User > wrote:

>> Perhaps he was educated by another professional.
>
>Perhaps.

He was. He was in the first class of the French Culinary Institute in
NYC. Jacques Pepin is one of the Deans there, and teaches there I
think. So I would venture to say he was taught by a
professional...LOL.

Christine

On 2007-08-21, JoeSpareBedroom > wrote:

> I'll answer this with a question:

You've answered nothing. You've changed the whole issue to something
completely different from the one previously under discussion. I
suggest you start a new thread.

As for the question of boiling something in water, try this. Take
anything you want, shrimp, ribs, spices, left-handed virgins,
whatever, and boil them in plain water for 10 mins. Then come back
here and see how many people you can convince that after 10 mins, that
boiling water will still taste like plain water. Have a nice day.

nb

"notbob" > wrote in message
. ..
> On 2007-08-21, JoeSpareBedroom > wrote:
>
>> I'll answer this with a question:
>
> You've answered nothing. You've changed the whole issue to something
> completely different from the one previously under discussion. I
> suggest you start a new thread.


Most good teachers use questions to answer other questions. The better
students can handle this. The others doodle in the margins of their
notebooks.

Do you want to doodle, or learn?

On 2007-08-21, JoeSpareBedroom > wrote:

> Most good teachers use questions to answer other questions. The better
> students can handle this.

Most teachers, yes. A "good" teacher would be concentrating on the
students writing in the margins.

nb

"notbob" > wrote in message
. ..
> On 2007-08-21, JoeSpareBedroom > wrote:
>
>> Most good teachers use questions to answer other questions. The better
>> students can handle this.
>
> Most teachers, yes. A "good" teacher would be concentrating on the
> students writing in the margins.
>
> nb

The margin kids are marginal and can't be helped. Over the past 7 years,
we've seen two highly accurate surveys which prove this.

Back to the question at hand:

You said the spices in a "boil" are what adds the flavor that the water
takes away.

If you slow cook ribs in a smoker or on the grill, what is adding flavor?

On 2007-08-21, JoeSpareBedroom > wrote:

> If you slow cook ribs in a smoker or on the grill, what is adding flavor?

Let me answer your question with a question. What is the sex life of the
common flatworm and what is its relationship with the next Republican
National Convention?

nb

Kyle wrote:

> Speaking for myself, I don't have animosity towards Flay; I'm merely
> annoyed by him. His food is Chili's-calibre; his culinary repertoire
> is limited; and he's a miserable speaker, constantly garbling his
> words and sentences. I saw a show once where he pronounced the word
> "chipotle" differently each time he said it. Flay also has the speech
> impediment which plagues Jacko; instead of "reputation" Flay says
> "weputation." It's very annoying.


You should have heard him trying to say "molcajete" on one of his older
shows. As near as I can reproduce what he said, it came out
"mole-cal-HELL-ta-lay."

Let's not also forget that his was the voice-over chosen to promote
"Gwillin' and Chillin'" week on Food Network.

Even so, I've noticed that his cooking on Iron Chef America has become more
varied and interesting these last couple of years, and that's what people
REALLY ought to care about, isn't it?

Bob

"notbob" > wrote in message
. ..
> On 2007-08-21, JoeSpareBedroom > wrote:
>
>> If you slow cook ribs in a smoker or on the grill, what is adding flavor?
>
> Let me answer your question with a question. What is the sex life of the
> common flatworm and what is its relationship with the next Republican
> National Convention?
>
> nb


Marginal....

On Aug 21, 12:53 am, "Bob Terwilliger" >
wrote:
> Kyle wrote:
> > Speaking for myself, I don't have animosity towards Flay; I'm merely
> > annoyed by him. His food is Chili's-calibre; his culinary repertoire
> > is limited; and he's a miserable speaker, constantly garbling his
> > words and sentences. I saw a show once where he pronounced the word
> > "chipotle" differently each time he said it. Flay also has the speech
> > impediment which plagues Jacko; instead of "reputation" Flay says
> > "weputation." It's very annoying.
>
> You should have heard him trying to say "molcajete" on one of his older
> shows. As near as I can reproduce what he said, it came out
> "mole-cal-HELL-ta-lay."
>
> Let's not also forget that his was the voice-over chosen to promote
> "Gwillin' and Chillin'" week on Food Network.
>
> Even so, I've noticed that his cooking on Iron Chef America has become more
> varied and interesting these last couple of years, and that's what people
> REALLY ought to care about, isn't it?
>
> Bob

I agree with you that Flay's cooking on ICA has gotten better. For
the first few seasons it was absurdly predictable; he was in a wut. I
mean a rut.

On 2007-08-21, JoeSpareBedroom > wrote:
>
> Marginal....

Reflective....

On Aug 20, 3:23 pm, Kyle > wrote:
> On Aug 17, 9:24 pm, "JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Steve Wertz" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > > On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 16:58:51 -0700, LarbGai wrote:
>
> > >> How is it that everytime Bobby Flay cooks on Iron Chef he wins???
> > >> Most times the other chef is streets ahead but Bobby always wins.
>
> > > Flay lost his first Iron Chef to Morimoto, and won the second
> > > battle. But he's still a loser no matter what he does.
>
> > > If he's still appearing on Iron Chef, then I haven't seen it. Is
> > > there even still an Iron Chef America? I haven't turned on
> > > FoodTV in a couple years, but almost always had it on from
> > > 2000-2003.
>
> > > -sw
>
> > Why the animosity toward Flay? Is he banging your wife/sister/mother?
>
> There are rumors about who he's banging, and it's not anyone's wife or
> sister or mother!
>
> Speaking for myself, I don't have animosity towards Flay; I'm merely
> annoyed by him. His food is Chili's-calibre; his culinary repertoire
> is limited; and he's a miserable speaker, constantly garbling his
> words and sentences. I saw a show once where he pronounced the word
> "chipotle" differently each time he said it. Flay also has the speech
> impediment which plagues Jacko; instead of "reputation" Flay says
> "weputation." It's very annoying.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Not to drive Flay-bashing into the ground, but there are a few other
things about him that annoy me. He talks with his mouth full and
chomps with his mouth open in a way that's *really* obnoxious.

Now, just about all the FN personalities do this; I wonder if Tuschman
tells them to or something. But Flay's the worst (though Guy Fieri's
catching up; he didn't do this at first, now he does it multiple times
per D,D, & D show).

notbob wrote:

> On 2007-08-20, Default User > wrote:
>
> > Your post clearly seemed to be dismissive of his cooking skills
> > based on the claim that he advocated boiling ribs.
>
> It "seemed" to you.

Indeed. I'd be surprised if it didn't seem that way to most people.

> > Are you stating that he is a skilled cook and chef?
>
> I said no such thing.

Heh.



Brian

--
If televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who
won't shut up.
-- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com)

Christine Dabney wrote:

> On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 17:30:19 -0500, notbob > wrote:
>
> >On 2007-08-20, Default User > wrote:
>
> >> Perhaps he was educated by another professional.
> >
> > Perhaps.
>
> He was. He was in the first class of the French Culinary Institute in
> NYC. Jacques Pepin is one of the Deans there, and teaches there I
> think. So I would venture to say he was taught by a
> professional...LOL.

Yes, but I was referring specifically to BBQ ribs. If indeed he at one
point advocated boiling ribs, and doesn't seem to now, I'd suspect his
contact with experts in the field through his TV shows may have had an
influence.



Brian

--
If televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who
won't shut up.
-- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com)

"Kyle" > wrote in message
ups.com...
-
>
> Not to drive Flay-bashing into the ground, but there are a few other
> things about him that annoy me. He talks with his mouth full and
> chomps with his mouth open in a way that's *really* obnoxious.
>


There's some little annoyance in many of them. I just can't stand Paula's
voice.

But the main reason I don't watch her much is that I check her recipes
before I watch a show and you'd be surprised of how many of them are recipes
similar to the style of Sandra and Rachel -- using box cake mix, etc.





>
>
>
>
>

On Aug 21, 1:38 pm, "Dee Dee" > wrote:
> "Kyle" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
> -
>
>
>
> > Not to drive Flay-bashing into the ground, but there are a few other
> > things about him that annoy me. He talks with his mouth full and
> > chomps with his mouth open in a way that's *really* obnoxious.
>
> There's some little annoyance in many of them. I just can't stand Paula's
> voice.
>
> But the main reason I don't watch her much is that I check her recipes
> before I watch a show and you'd be surprised of how many of them are recipes
> similar to the style of Sandra and Rachel -- using box cake mix, etc.

Yeah, I find PD's voice extremely annoying as well. I've never been
able to tolerate her for more than a few seconds.