When you make Pizza Margherita what do you do?

1. Do you use fresh tomatoes or tomato sauce.
2 If you use fresh tomatoes do you squeeze them first to get rid of some
of the liquid.
3 Do you put the tomatoes[not sauce] on top of the cheese or underneath
4 Where do you put the basil, under the cheese, or on top.
5 If the basil goes on top, doesn't it burn to the point where you lose
the taste you're looking for?

Lately I've been putting on the basil, then coarsely grated mozzeralla, and
then large
cherry type tomatoes sliced and crushed with a paper towel. Also I
occasionally
pre-cook my pizza crust for 1.5 minutes at 550F on a stone with leftover
dough when I'm making plain old pizza. I make the Pizza Margherita, using
the defrosted minimally cooked pizza round and bake it on the stone at 400F,
rather than 550F. The pizza round freezes well, and makes everything easy if
you want a quick pizza. Today we're having it for lunch.

Kent

Kent wrote:
> When you make Pizza Margherita what do you do?
>
> 1. Do you use fresh tomatoes or tomato sauce.
> 2 If you use fresh tomatoes do you squeeze them first to get rid of some
> of the liquid.
> 3 Do you put the tomatoes[not sauce] on top of the cheese or underneath
> 4 Where do you put the basil, under the cheese, or on top.
> 5 If the basil goes on top, doesn't it burn to the point where you lose
> the taste you're looking for?
>
> Lately I've been putting on the basil, then coarsely grated mozzeralla, and
> then large
> cherry type tomatoes sliced and crushed with a paper towel. Also I
> occasionally
> pre-cook my pizza crust for 1.5 minutes at 550F on a stone with leftover
> dough when I'm making plain old pizza. I make the Pizza Margherita, using
> the defrosted minimally cooked pizza round and bake it on the stone at 400F,
> rather than 550F. The pizza round freezes well, and makes everything easy if
> you want a quick pizza. Today we're having it for lunch.
>
> Kent

I use canned tomatoes that I squeeze in my hands and then drain
I don't use fresh tomatoes because the high short heat makes them sour.
Underneath on the dough.
The basil is put on top of everything after the pizza comes out of the
oven and it is raw.
See above.
A thread of good oil is usually added, too.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

In article >,
"Kent" > wrote:

> When you make Pizza Margherita what do you do?

I use tequila and layer it between lemon/lime juice and a bit of salt
with ice.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

"Kent" > wrote in message
...
> When you make Pizza Margherita what do you do?
>
> 1. Do you use fresh tomatoes or tomato sauce.

Fresh plump vine ripe Roma tomatoes only

> 2 If you use fresh tomatoes do you squeeze them first to get rid of
some
> of the liquid.

Yes

> 3 Do you put the tomatoes[not sauce] on top of the cheese or underneath

Cheese on top. You want to see the color, the pizza is supposed to be the
color of the Italian flag.

> 4 Where do you put the basil, under the cheese, or on top.

You alternate it. Little sauce, little cheese, little basil. Spread it
around so you see it all.

> 5 If the basil goes on top, doesn't it burn to the point where you lose
> the taste you're looking for?

Nope.

On Jun 2, 1:35 pm, "Kent" > wrote:
> When you make Pizza Margherita what do you do?
>
> 1. Do you use fresh tomatoes or tomato sauce.
Neither. I use canned whole tomatoes and crush them before putting
them on the pizza, which I have painted with olive oil beforehand.

> 2 If you use fresh tomatoes do you squeeze them first to get rid of some
> of the liquid.
I drain the canned tomatoes somewhat.

> 3 Do you put the tomatoes[not sauce] on top of the cheese or underneath
Underneath, but I don't cover all the tomatoes with cheese. I use
slices of water-packed mozzarella balls

> 4 Where do you put the basil, under the cheese, or on top.
Both. I put a few leaves under a few of the slices, then more on top
when the pizza comes out of the oven.

I bake it in a 500 degree oven (high as I can get it) on a Hearthkit
insert that I've heated for an hour.

David

Kent > wrote:

> When you make Pizza Margherita what do you do?
>
> 1. Do you use fresh tomatoes or tomato sauce.
> 2 If you use fresh tomatoes do you squeeze them first to get rid of some
> of the liquid.
> 3 Do you put the tomatoes[not sauce] on top of the cheese or underneath
> 4 Where do you put the basil, under the cheese, or on top.
> 5 If the basil goes on top, doesn't it burn to the point where you lose
> the taste you're looking for?

Pizza Margherita is not just an ingredient list of tomatoes, mozzarella
and basil to be put together any which way. It is a pretty well defined
recipe. Here it is:

"Using a spoon place 60-80g of pressed, peeled tomatoes, or chopped
fresh cherry tomatoes in to the center of the pizza base, then using a
spiraling motion, cover the entire surface of the base with the sauce;
using a spiraling motion, add salt on the surface of the tomato sauce;
spread 80-100g of sliced Mozzarella STG, or fior di latte Appennino so
that it forms a connect lath pattern on the surface of the tomato sauce;
spread on the fresh basil leaves; using an oil canister and a spiraling
motion starting from the center and moving out, pour 4-5g of Extra
Virgin Olive Oil."

Victor

In article >,
"Kent" > wrote:

> When you make Pizza Margherita what do you do?

I make a sauce of olive oil, garlic, chopped and peeled fresh sauce
tomatoes or canned San Marzanos, and basil. The sauce is the first to go
on the pizza round and I spread it rather thinly. Then a sprinkle of
finely chopped fresh oregano, Then coarsely shredded cheese spread so
you can still see tomato between the shreds. Then it's baked in in my
gas oven at 500 F. I place the pan on the floor of the oven for the
first few minutes then finish on a rack. When out of the oven, I
decorate with whole basil leaves.

boring academic stuff:

Victor's version is a translation of the recipe from the DOC
organization for Neapolitan pizza: Verace Pizza Napoletana Association.
You can find it in more detail at:
http://www.verapizzanapoletana.org/vpn/ricetta.htm
The VPNA was founded in 1984 so this recipe is not necessarily that for
the original from the 1880's. A perusal of recipes, including
descriptions of pizzas encountered in Naples, show many variations
featuring the same basic ingredients. Kinda makes you think of pastas
"al Alfredo".

D.M.

Donald Martinich > wrote:

> Victor's version is a translation of the recipe from
> the DOC organization for Neapolitan pizza: Verace Pizza
> Napoletana Association. You can find it in more detail at:
> http://www.verapizzanapoletana.org/vpn/ricetta.htm The VPNA
> was founded in 1984 so this recipe is not necessarily that
> for the original from the 1880's. A perusal of recipes,
> including descriptions of pizzas encountered in Naples, show
> many variations featuring the same basic ingredients. Kinda
> makes you think of pastas "al Alfredo".

The Victor/DOC version may only date from 1984 but it seems
to me identical to the standard pizza I had when I lived in
Naples in the late 1960's.

At least some reports suggest pizza has not been made continuously,
at least in mass quantities, in Naples since the "early days"
of the 1880's. It seems highly likely that the demand for pizza
in Naples increased with the American occupation after 1945, and
that the now-standard Neapolitan pizza while rooted in tradition
developed into its current form sometime after that.

Steve

"Donald Martinich" > wrote in message
>
> Victor's version is a translation of the recipe from the DOC
> organization for Neapolitan pizza: Verace Pizza Napoletana Association.
> You can find it in more detail at:
> http://www.verapizzanapoletana.org/vpn/ricetta.htm
> The VPNA was founded in 1984 so this recipe is not necessarily that for
> the original from the 1880's.

Just because the VPNA was started in 1984 does not mean the recipe is not
historically accurate.

On Jun 2, 4:11 pm, david the elder > wrote:
> On Jun 2, 1:35 pm, "Kent" > wrote:> When you make Pizza Margherita what do you do?
>
> > 1. Do you use fresh tomatoes or tomato sauce.
>
> Neither. I use canned whole tomatoes and crush them before putting
> them on the pizza, which I have painted with olive oil beforehand.
>
> > 2 If you use fresh tomatoes do you squeeze them first to get rid of some
> > of the liquid.
>
> I drain the canned tomatoes somewhat.
>
> > 3 Do you put the tomatoes[not sauce] on top of the cheese or underneath
>

I always drizzle and spread around some olive oil on top of the dough
before I put the tomatoes/tomato sauce on the dough. I feel it keeps
the dough from absorbing the sauce. I think this depends on how much
sauce you are putting on a thick or thin crust. I use my own
judgement depending on these factors.
Dee Dee

Kent wrote:
> When you make Pizza Margherita what do you do?
>
> 1. Do you use fresh tomatoes or tomato sauce.

Sauce

> 2 If you use fresh tomatoes do you squeeze them first to get rid of some
> of the liquid.

When I do use fresh, I just plop them on.

> 3 Do you put the tomatoes[not sauce] on top of the cheese or underneath

Underneath...but I only put small bits of fresh mozzerella

> 4 Where do you put the basil, under the cheese, or on top.

On top along with the cheese...my cheese doesn't cover the entire pizza.

> 5 If the basil goes on top, doesn't it burn to the point where you lose
> the taste you're looking for?

Nope. The crust is so thin that it bakes quickly, not long enough for
the basil to burn


--
-Gina in Italy

Sig Not Found.

If found, return to me promptly.

Giusi wrote:
> Kent wrote:
>> When you make Pizza Margherita what do you do?
>>
>> 1. Do you use fresh tomatoes or tomato sauce.
>> 2 If you use fresh tomatoes do you squeeze them first to get rid of
>> some of the liquid.
>> 3 Do you put the tomatoes[not sauce] on top of the cheese or
>> underneath
>> 4 Where do you put the basil, under the cheese, or on top.
>> 5 If the basil goes on top, doesn't it burn to the point where you
>> lose the taste you're looking for?
>>
>> Lately I've been putting on the basil, then coarsely grated
>> mozzeralla, and then large
>> cherry type tomatoes sliced and crushed with a paper towel. Also I
>> occasionally
>> pre-cook my pizza crust for 1.5 minutes at 550F on a stone with
>> leftover dough when I'm making plain old pizza. I make the Pizza
>> Margherita, using the defrosted minimally cooked pizza round and bake
>> it on the stone at 400F, rather than 550F. The pizza round freezes
>> well, and makes everything easy if you want a quick pizza. Today we're
>> having it for lunch.
>>
>> Kent
>
> I use canned tomatoes that I squeeze in my hands and then drain
> I don't use fresh tomatoes because the high short heat makes them sour.
> Underneath on the dough.
> The basil is put on top of everything after the pizza comes out of the
> oven and it is raw.
> See above.
> A thread of good oil is usually added, too.
>

Definitely olive oil! I use that too.

--
-Gina in Italy

Sig Not Found.

If found, return to me promptly.

Donald Martinich wrote:
> In article >,
> "Kent" > wrote:
>
>> When you make Pizza Margherita what do you do?
>
> I make a sauce of olive oil, garlic, chopped and peeled fresh sauce
> tomatoes or canned San Marzanos, and basil. The sauce is the first to go
> on the pizza round and I spread it rather thinly. Then a sprinkle of
> finely chopped fresh oregano, Then coarsely shredded cheese spread so
> you can still see tomato between the shreds. Then it's baked in in my
> gas oven at 500 F. I place the pan on the floor of the oven for the
> first few minutes then finish on a rack. When out of the oven, I
> decorate with whole basil leaves.
>
> boring academic stuff:
>
> Victor's version is a translation of the recipe from the DOC
> organization for Neapolitan pizza: Verace Pizza Napoletana Association.
> You can find it in more detail at:
> http://www.verapizzanapoletana.org/vpn/ricetta.htm
> The VPNA was founded in 1984 so this recipe is not necessarily that for
> the original from the 1880's. A perusal of recipes, including
> descriptions of pizzas encountered in Naples, show many variations
> featuring the same basic ingredients. Kinda makes you think of pastas
> "al Alfredo".
>
> D.M.

Neapolitan pizzas are very varied, but Margarita is not. It is like a
hot cheese and tomato sandwich with basil. There is nothing else on it.
That's just true, not academic, but true. The right mozzarella is too
soft to grate and is sliced. It's hard to find in the US, but I hear it
is there. It's worth hunting down IMO.

Make what you like, just better to use the name Napolitana or Marinara
as I don't recall which yours is called.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Donald Martinich > wrote:

> boring academic stuff:
>
> Victor's version is a translation of the recipe from the DOC
> organization for Neapolitan pizza: Verace Pizza Napoletana Association.
> You can find it in more detail at:
> http://www.verapizzanapoletana.org/vpn/ricetta.htm
> The VPNA was founded in 1984 so this recipe is not necessarily that for
> the original from the 1880's. A perusal of recipes, including
> descriptions of pizzas encountered in Naples, show many variations
> featuring the same basic ingredients. Kinda makes you think of pastas
> "al Alfredo".

Well, the stuff may be boring, but it is anything but academic.
Specifications for Neapolitan pizza types are not a result of some
diktat from above, from some government commission or a trade
association. They were decided upon by the actual pizzaioli, with most
every pizzaiolo in Naples participating. What they codified was simply
their actual practice of making pizza. Nothing could be less academic
and more practical and reflecting actual reality.

Victor

"Dee Dee" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> On Jun 2, 4:11 pm, david the elder > wrote:
>> On Jun 2, 1:35 pm, "Kent" > wrote:> When you make
>> Pizza Margherita what do you do?
>>
>> > 1. Do you use fresh tomatoes or tomato sauce.
>>
>> Neither. I use canned whole tomatoes and crush them before putting
>> them on the pizza, which I have painted with olive oil beforehand.
>>
>> > 2 If you use fresh tomatoes do you squeeze them first to get rid of
>> > some
>> > of the liquid.
>>
>> I drain the canned tomatoes somewhat.
>>
>> > 3 Do you put the tomatoes[not sauce] on top of the cheese or
>> > underneath
>>
>
> I always drizzle and spread around some olive oil on top of the dough
> before I put the tomatoes/tomato sauce on the dough. I feel it keeps
> the dough from absorbing the sauce. I think this depends on how much
> sauce you are putting on a thick or thin crust. I use my own
> judgement depending on these factors.
> Dee Dee
>
>
I spray the top of my dough with PAM, which does the same with much less
oil.

Kent
>

On Jun 3, 7:28 pm, "Kent" > wrote:
> "Dee Dee" > wrote in message
>
> oups.com...
>
>
>
> > On Jun 2, 4:11 pm, david the elder > wrote:
> >> On Jun 2, 1:35 pm, "Kent" > wrote:> When you make
> >> Pizza Margherita what do you do?
>
> >> > 1. Do you use fresh tomatoes or tomato sauce.
>
> >> Neither. I use canned whole tomatoes and crush them before putting
> >> them on the pizza, which I have painted with olive oil beforehand.
>
> >> > 2 If you use fresh tomatoes do you squeeze them first to get rid of
> >> > some
> >> > of the liquid.
>
> >> I drain the canned tomatoes somewhat.
>
> >> > 3 Do you put the tomatoes[not sauce] on top of the cheese or
> >> > underneath
>
> > I always drizzle and spread around some olive oil on top of the dough
> > before I put the tomatoes/tomato sauce on the dough. I feel it keeps
> > the dough from absorbing the sauce. I think this depends on how much
> > sauce you are putting on a thick or thin crust. I use my own
> > judgement depending on these factors.
> > Dee Dee
>
> I spray the top of my dough with PAM, which does the same with much less
> oil.
>
> Kent
>
>
>
> - Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Or, if you want olive oil and like the taste of it, they have olive
oil in that same type of can as Pam. You just have to look for it in
places like TJ's, Wegman's, Whole Foods, Italian markets, etc.
Dee

In article >,
(Victor Sack) wrote:

> Donald Martinich > wrote:
>
> > boring academic stuff:
> >
> > Victor's version is a translation of the recipe from the DOC
> > organization for Neapolitan pizza: Verace Pizza Napoletana Association.
> > You can find it in more detail at:
> > http://www.verapizzanapoletana.org/vpn/ricetta.htm
> > The VPNA was founded in 1984 so this recipe is not necessarily that for
> > the original from the 1880's. A perusal of recipes, including
> > descriptions of pizzas encountered in Naples, show many variations
> > featuring the same basic ingredients. Kinda makes you think of pastas
> > "al Alfredo".
>
> Well, the stuff may be boring, but it is anything but academic.
> Specifications for Neapolitan pizza types are not a result of some
> diktat from above, from some government commission or a trade
> association. They were decided upon by the actual pizzaioli, with most
> every pizzaiolo in Naples participating. What they codified was simply
> their actual practice of making pizza. Nothing could be less academic
> and more practical and reflecting actual reality.
>
> Victor

You misunderstood my use of the word "academic". I was referring to the
fact that I bothered to footnote your post, not the recipe. (But, it is
certainly specific and precise enough to please any academic. ;=]) The
purported recipes and descriptions I tracked down were surprisingly
varied for a food item with supposedly only 3 ingredients. That is why
I mentioned Alfredo. A good example of how one dish specific to one
restaurant (originally) can spawn so many permutations worldwide while
using the same name.

D.M.

Dee Dee wrote:
> On Jun 3, 7:28 pm, "Kent" > wrote:
>> "Dee Dee" > wrote in message
ors.
>>> Dee Dee
>> I spray the top of my dough with PAM, which does the same with much less
>> oil.
>>
>> Kent

>
> Or, if you want olive oil and like the taste of it, they have olive
> oil in that same type of can as Pam. You just have to look for it in
> places like TJ's, Wegman's, Whole Foods, Italian markets, etc.
> Dee
>
I don't get why people who don't want oil want to make pizza? If you
want to spray oil they sell sprayers made for the purpose and it is very
helpful when styling food for photography, but pizza needs oil-- the
flavor, the unctuous goodness of it.

Pizza is a bit fattening just like a grilled cheese sandwich is a bit
fattening. Eat the real thing in smaller portions seems the right way
to go, rather than remove the goodness of it so you can eat a lot of it.

Pizza is one of those things that isn't improved by screwing around with
it. A simple dough, raised a long time-- 12 hours is a benchmark--
topped lightly with a few fine ingredients and cooked in a flash.
The other roads tend to lead toward Cool Whip Lite.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On 2007-06-04, Giusi > wrote:

> Pizza is one of those things that isn't improved by screwing around with
> it. A simple dough, raised a long time-- 12 hours is a benchmark--
> topped lightly with a few fine ingredients and cooked in a flash.

I agree. So does Julia's guest, chef Roberto Donna. See his version
of Pizza Margherita on video:

http://www.pbs.org/juliachild/meet/donna.html

nb

notbob wrote:
> On 2007-06-04, Giusi > wrote:
>
>> Pizza is one of those things that isn't improved by screwing around with
>> it. A simple dough, raised a long time-- 12 hours is a benchmark--
>> topped lightly with a few fine ingredients and cooked in a flash.
>
> I agree. So does Julia's guest, chef Roberto Donna. See his version
> of Pizza Margherita on video:
>
> http://www.pbs.org/juliachild/meet/donna.html
>
> nb

I have dialup and can't see videos, but I know Donna from when I lived
in Washington DC and he is a respectable authority.

That said, I don't care what people love for pizza, I just think they
shouldn't take a classic named pizza and mess around with it and still
try to keep the classic name. If they want pineapple on their pizza,
sobeit, but call it what it is, not a version of Margarita. People come
to Italy and love or hate the real pizza.... mostly love it. Many learn
not to load it down so that it cannot bubble and crisp and char. Some
return and throw a pound of crap on top and claim they are making it
just the way they ate it in Naples, but improved. It's my feeling that
you cannot improve the real thing, you can only make a steaming and
gummy mess of it.

I'd love to see cooks try the real and classic recipe once, just to see
if they find magic in it, too.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Giusi > wrote:

>Pizza is a bit fattening just like a grilled cheese sandwich is a bit
>fattening. Eat the real thing in smaller portions seems the right way
>to go, rather than remove the goodness of it so you can eat a lot of it.

It seems to me a Naples pizza is made with hard, high-protein
flour and while it is squirted with a bit of olive oil it is not
very greasy, having only a moderate amount of cheese on it.
There's nothing particularly unhealthy about it.

By comparison most American pizzas are calorie bombs, and
have lots of processed ingredients.

Steve

"Giusi" > wrote in message
.. .
> Dee Dee wrote:
>> On Jun 3, 7:28 pm, "Kent" > wrote:
>>> "Dee Dee" > wrote in message
> ors.
>>>> Dee Dee
>>> I spray the top of my dough with PAM, which does the same with much less
>>> oil.
>>>
>>> Kent
>
>>
>> Or, if you want olive oil and like the taste of it, they have olive
>> oil in that same type of can as Pam. You just have to look for it in
>> places like TJ's, Wegman's, Whole Foods, Italian markets, etc.
>> Dee
>>
> I don't get why people who don't want oil want to make pizza? If you want
> to spray oil they sell sprayers made for the purpose and it is very
> helpful when styling food for photography, but pizza needs oil-- the
> flavor, the unctuous goodness of it.
>
> Pizza is a bit fattening just like a grilled cheese sandwich is a bit
> fattening. Eat the real thing in smaller portions seems the right way to
> go, rather than remove the goodness of it so you can eat a lot of it.
>
> Pizza is one of those things that isn't improved by screwing around with
> it. A simple dough, raised a long time-- 12 hours is a benchmark--

Questions, or Preguntas:
What kind of flour do you use?
How much yeast for three cups flour?
Do you use a pre-ferment? If so what? Yesterday's dough, a poolish, or biga?
Do you rise once, or twice?
What is your oven temp?
What kind of cooking surface do you bake on?

Kent

"Steve Pope" > wrote in message
...
> Giusi > wrote:
>
>>Pizza is a bit fattening just like a grilled cheese sandwich is a bit
>>fattening. Eat the real thing in smaller portions seems the right way
>>to go, rather than remove the goodness of it so you can eat a lot of it.
>
> It seems to me a Naples pizza is made with hard, high-protein
> flour and while it is squirted with a bit of olive oil it is not
> very greasy, having only a moderate amount of cheese on it.
> There's nothing particularly unhealthy about it.
>
> By comparison most American pizzas are calorie bombs, and
> have lots of processed ingredients.
>
> Steve
>
>
It's my understanding that Naples pizza is made with type 00 flour, very low
gluten, and you can't buy anything like it in this country. You can mix 1/3
cake flour and
2/3 all purpose and sort of approximate that. None of this high protein
stuff!

Kent

Kent wrote:
> "Giusi" > wrote in message
> .. .

>> Pizza is one of those things that isn't improved by screwing around with
>> it. A simple dough, raised a long time-- 12 hours is a benchmark--
>
> Questions, or Preguntas:
> What kind of flour do you use?
> How much yeast for three cups flour?
> Do you use a pre-ferment? If so what? Yesterday's dough, a poolish, or biga?
> Do you rise once, or twice?
> What is your oven temp?
> What kind of cooking surface do you bake on?
>
> Kent

I am not a pizzaiolo, but with advice from the ones I like, I make a
decent pizza for home cooked. There are limits.

I use ordinary soft wheat Italian 00 flour here. I have no idea how
many cups, because we weigh here. So 500 g of flour uses one 7 g packet
of dry "beer" yeast, which is identical to dry yeast in the US. Hard
wheat flour is available, but so far I've found no one who uses it for
homemade pizza.

No biga or pre-ferment.

I also use about a tablespoon of oil in the dough, and salt, and enough
warm water to make a soft, pillowy dough. It is kneaded in the FP or by
hand, or made looser so that it doesn't need kneading.

I put it into a large Ziplock bag, in the fridge and ignore it for 12
hours or more. It can be punched down and shaped immediately.

I preheat the oven to MAX, which is above 500° F or 250° C.

I form the pizza on parchment paper on a baking sheet without sides, and
use that as a peel to slide the paper and pizza directly on the superhot
oven grate. It cooks very quickly, but not as fast as in a real stone oven.

I am currently restoring my outside stone oven so I can achieve those
750°F and up temperatures. It's not in bad shape for 400 years old, but
hasn't been used in 40 years, so needs a little TLC. Then the whole
neighborhood will have a baking day of everything you can cook at the
various temps the oven achieves over a day.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On Jun 4, 2:03 am, Giusi > wrote:
> notbob wrote:
> > On 2007-06-04, Giusi > wrote:
>
> >> Pizza is one of those things that isn't improved by screwing around with
> >> it. A simple dough, raised a long time-- 12 hours is a benchmark--
> >> topped lightly with a few fine ingredients and cooked in a flash.
>
> > I agree. So does Julia's guest, chef Roberto Donna. See his version
> > of Pizza Margherita on video:
>
> >http://www.pbs.org/juliachild/meet/donna.html
>
> > nb
>
> I have dialup and can't see videos, but I know Donna from when I lived
> in Washington DC and he is a respectable authority.
>
> That said, I don't care what people love for pizza, I just think they
> shouldn't take a classic named pizza and mess around with it and still
> try to keep the classic name. If they want pineapple on their pizza,
> sobeit, but call it what it is, not a version of Margarita. People come
> to Italy and love or hate the real pizza.... mostly love it. Many learn
> not to load it down so that it cannot bubble and crisp and char. Some
> return and throw a pound of crap on top and claim they are making it
> just the way they ate it in Naples, but improved. It's my feeling that
> you cannot improve the real thing, you can only make a steaming and
> gummy mess of it.
>
> I'd love to see cooks try the real and classic recipe once, just to see
> if they find magic in it, too.
>
> --
> Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com

In a very nice restaurant in Baltimore, they served small portions of
a little of everything global. I ordered as one of these "delicacies,"
a Pizza Margherita.
It was not good by a long shot. The wait-Person told me in essence
that I would not have ordered that type of pizza if I knew my pizzas.
One could take that both ways, either I or perhaps the cook/chef did
not know his/her pizzas.
Dee Dee

On Jun 4, 2:53 am, "Kent" > wrote:
> "Giusi" > wrote in message
>
> .. .
>
>
>
>
>
> > Dee Dee wrote:
> >> On Jun 3, 7:28 pm, "Kent" > wrote:
> >>> "Dee Dee" > wrote in message
> > ors.
> >>>> Dee Dee
> >>> I spray the top of my dough with PAM, which does the same with much less
> >>> oil.
>
> >>> Kent
>
> >> Or, if you want olive oil and like the taste of it, they have olive
> >> oil in that same type of can as Pam. You just have to look for it in
> >> places like TJ's, Wegman's, Whole Foods, Italian markets, etc.
> >> Dee
>
> > I don't get why people who don't want oil want to make pizza? If you want
> > to spray oil they sell sprayers made for the purpose and it is very
> > helpful when styling food for photography, but pizza needs oil-- the
> > flavor, the unctuous goodness of it.
>
> > Pizza is a bit fattening just like a grilled cheese sandwich is a bit
> > fattening. Eat the real thing in smaller portions seems the right way to
> > go, rather than remove the goodness of it so you can eat a lot of it.
>
> > Pizza is one of those things that isn't improved by screwing around with
> > it. A simple dough, raised a long time-- 12 hours is a benchmark--
>
> Questions, or Preguntas:
> What kind of flour do you use?
> How much yeast for three cups flour?
> Do you use a pre-ferment? If so what? Yesterday's dough, a poolish, or biga?
> Do you rise once, or twice?
> What is your oven temp?
> What kind of cooking surface do you bake on?
>
> Kent- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I don't keep any bleached flour in the house;hence never any cake
flour for anything. This does limit serious dessert baking.

Yeast - not more than 1-1/2 tsp. for 3 cups, if I'm not putting it in
the refrigerator overnight. If I overnight it, then 1 tsp.

Rising once or twice depends on what time of day I'm baking it. My
problem with pizzas is the stretching. I used a dough conditioner
from King Arthur the last time, it certainly did not work for me.
I've just got to get into the art of throwing :-))

I always heat a stone for pizzas. Always 45 minutes, although I
suppose 30 will do. I always heat at maximum 550. My pizzas are thin
and don't take much time to bake.

Dee Dee

On Jun 3, 5:53 pm, (Victor Sack) wrote:
> Donald Martinich > wrote:
> > boring academic stuff:
>
> > Victor's version is a translation of the recipe from the DOC
> > organization for Neapolitan pizza: Verace Pizza Napoletana Association.
> > You can find it in more detail at:
> >http://www.verapizzanapoletana.org/vpn/ricetta.htm

>
> Well, the stuff may be boring, but it is anything but academic.
> Specifications for Neapolitan pizza types are not a result of some
> diktat from above, from some government commission or a trade
> association. They were decided upon by the actual pizzaioli, with most
> every pizzaiolo in Naples participating. What they codified was simply
> their actual practice of making pizza. Nothing could be less academic
> and more practical and reflecting actual reality.
>
> Victor

Re Caputo flour (in recipe) see mention of Peter Reinhart using it at
http://www.fornobravo.com/pizza-ingr...-comments.html

I have never heard 00 flour referred to as Caputo flour; are they one
and the same,or is Caputo a brand. But darned if it doesn't look
order-able.
Dee Dee

On 2007-06-04, Giusi > wrote:

> I'd love to see cooks try the real and classic recipe once, just to see
> if they find magic in it, too.

I've tried it and I enjoy it. Minimalist pizza, if done right, using
quality ingredients, is very good. OTOH, there's a lot to be said for
a good pineapple/ham pizza or a "supreme" with everything but the
kitchen sink on it, specially anchovies. Yum. After I move, I plan on
building a small wood fired pizza oven. I'm sure proper cooking goes
a long way towards making classic pizza even better.

nb

On Jun 4, 1:13?am, (Steve Pope) wrote:
> Giusi > wrote:
> >Pizza is a bit fattening just like a grilled cheese sandwich is a bit
> >fattening. Eat the real thing in smaller portions seems the right way
> >to go, rather than remove the goodness of it so you can eat a lot of it.
>
> It seems to me a Naples pizza is made with hard, high-protein
> flour and while it is squirted with a bit of olive oil it is not
> very greasy, having only a moderate amount of cheese on it.
> There's nothing particularly unhealthy about it.
>
> By comparison most American pizzas are calorie bombs, and
> have lots of processed ingredients.
>
> Steve
I agree with this and think the taste is so much better than the
kinds in the USA from Pizza Hut etc. One of the things , I think that
makes it soo good is the FAST cooking, as you say it is out in a
flash, not 20 minutes. Another is , the ingredients are fresh and not
loaded on top.
Rosie

notbob wrote:
> On 2007-06-04, Giusi > wrote:
>
>> I'd love to see cooks try the real and classic recipe once, just to see
>> if they find magic in it, too.
>
> I've tried it and I enjoy it. Minimalist pizza, if done right, using
> quality ingredients, is very good. OTOH, there's a lot to be said for
> a good pineapple/ham pizza or a "supreme" with everything but the
> kitchen sink on it, specially anchovies. Yum. After I move, I plan on
> building a small wood fired pizza oven. I'm sure proper cooking goes
> a long way towards making classic pizza even better.
>
> nb
Here's hoping, because otherwise there's a lot of wasted effort being
expended.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On 2007-06-04, Kent > wrote:

> It's my understanding that Naples pizza is made with type 00 flour, very low
> gluten.....

http://www.ochef.com/830.htm
http://www.fornobravo.com/brick_oven...nts/flour.html

Do a little research before confusing folks with erroneous info.

nb

Dee Dee wrote:

>> Victor
>
> Re Caputo flour (in recipe) see mention of Peter Reinhart using it at
> http://www.fornobravo.com/pizza-ingr...-comments.html
>
> I have never heard 00 flour referred to as Caputo flour; are they one
> and the same,or is Caputo a brand. But darned if it doesn't look
> order-able.
> Dee Dee

00 just means how finely it is ground. It can be anything, so I wonder
why they didn't make more of what wheat it was made of? Caputo must be
a brand name. I've never seen it anywhere.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Kent > wrote:

> It's my understanding that Naples pizza is made with type 00
> flour, very low gluten, and you can't buy anything like it in
> this country. You can mix 1/3 cake flour and 2/3 all purpose
> and sort of approximate that. None of this high protein stuff!

You're right, it's type 00 or type 0 or a mixture of the two,
but I hadn't heard that type 00 is a low-protein flour. Thanks,
I'll have to check into this further.

Steve

Steve Pope wrote:
> Kent > wrote:
>
>> It's my understanding that Naples pizza is made with type 00
>> flour, very low gluten, and you can't buy anything like it in
>> this country. You can mix 1/3 cake flour and 2/3 all purpose
>> and sort of approximate that. None of this high protein stuff!
>
> You're right, it's type 00 or type 0 or a mixture of the two,
> but I hadn't heard that type 00 is a low-protein flour. Thanks,
> I'll have to check into this further.
>
> Steve
You can buy it also in hard wheat-- grano duro-- but the plain ole
everyday is not.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On Jun 4, 5:32 am, notbob > wrote:
> On 2007-06-04, Giusi > wrote:
>
> > I'd love to see cooks try the real and classic recipe once, just to see
> > if they find magic in it, too.
>
> I've tried it and I enjoy it. Minimalist pizza, if done right, using
> quality ingredients, is very good. OTOH, there's a lot to be said for
> a good pineapple/ham pizza or a "supreme" with everything but the
> kitchen sink on it, specially anchovies. Yum. After I move, I plan on
> building a small wood fired pizza oven. I'm sure proper cooking goes
> a long way towards making classic pizza even better.
>
> nb

The smoke from a wood fired oven makes the pizza soooo much tastier!
Do you have a plan/directions for your oven? I was recently introduced
to a great book called "The Bread Builders"- lots of good info you may
want to check out

On 2007-06-04, merryb > wrote:

> Do you have a plan/directions for your oven?

No, but I noticed a soon-to-be neighbor has one. Looked like a
miniture igloo.

nb

notbob wrote:
> On 2007-06-04, merryb > wrote:
>
>> Do you have a plan/directions for your oven?
>
> No, but I noticed a soon-to-be neighbor has one. Looked like a
> miniture igloo.
>
> nb

I have a friend in Baltimore who is planning on importing the ones made
for backyards here in Italy. They remind me of old time barbecue
thingies. Lots of dials, closures and openings with a little smokestack
on top. Nobody builds these stone ones any more. The innards of mine
would be big enough for 4-5 adults if they could get in the tiny door.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

"Dee Dee" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> On Jun 4, 2:53 am, "Kent" > wrote:
>> "Giusi" > wrote in message
>>
>> .. .
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > Dee Dee wrote:
>> >> On Jun 3, 7:28 pm, "Kent" > wrote:
>> >>> "Dee Dee" > wrote in message
>> > ors.
>> >>>> Dee Dee
>> >>> I spray the top of my dough with PAM, which does the same with much
>> >>> less
>> >>> oil.
>>
>> >>> Kent
>>
>> >> Or, if you want olive oil and like the taste of it, they have olive
>> >> oil in that same type of can as Pam. You just have to look for it in
>> >> places like TJ's, Wegman's, Whole Foods, Italian markets, etc.
>> >> Dee
>>
>> > I don't get why people who don't want oil want to make pizza? If you
>> > want
>> > to spray oil they sell sprayers made for the purpose and it is very
>> > helpful when styling food for photography, but pizza needs oil-- the
>> > flavor, the unctuous goodness of it.
>>
>> > Pizza is a bit fattening just like a grilled cheese sandwich is a bit
>> > fattening. Eat the real thing in smaller portions seems the right way
>> > to
>> > go, rather than remove the goodness of it so you can eat a lot of it.
>>
>> > Pizza is one of those things that isn't improved by screwing around
>> > with
>> > it. A simple dough, raised a long time-- 12 hours is a benchmark--
>>
>> Questions, or Preguntas:
>> What kind of flour do you use?
>> How much yeast for three cups flour?
>> Do you use a pre-ferment? If so what? Yesterday's dough, a poolish, or
>> biga?
>> Do you rise once, or twice?
>> What is your oven temp?
>> What kind of cooking surface do you bake on?
>>
>> Kent- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> I don't keep any bleached flour in the house;hence never any cake
> flour for anything. This does limit serious dessert baking.
>
> Yeast - not more than 1-1/2 tsp. for 3 cups, if I'm not putting it in
> the refrigerator overnight. If I overnight it, then 1 tsp.
>
> Rising once or twice depends on what time of day I'm baking it. My
> problem with pizzas is the stretching. I used a dough conditioner
> from King Arthur the last time, it certainly did not work for me.
> I've just got to get into the art of throwing :-))
>
> I always heat a stone for pizzas. Always 45 minutes, although I
> suppose 30 will do. I always heat at maximum 550. My pizzas are thin
> and don't take much time to bake.
>
> Dee Dee
>
>
What is your hydration, or water/flour ratio by weight. I use a wet dough,
with 1.25 cups liquid to 3 cups flour, or for a 70% hydration ratio by
weight. I stretch it by hand, not with a rolling pin. I get a crispy thin
crust with nice bump of air containing spaces on the edges. I do as you do
with the stone and the temp. I try to heat for an hour.

Another thing that really helps with this is to spray water inside your oven
several times during the first minute of baking, to mimick a baker's oven.
This gives you the "crisp"

Cheers,
Kent

Kent

On Mon, 4 Jun 2007 14:36:17 -0700, "Kent" > wrote:


>
>Another thing that really helps with this is to spray water inside your oven
>several times during the first minute of baking, to mimick a baker's oven.
>This gives you the "crisp"
>
>Cheers,
>Kent
>
>Kent
>

Peter Reinhardt, in his book American Pie, also recommends a Hearth
Kit. He says that gives the closest thing to a real "pizza" oven. It
is still only an approximation though...

You can find Hearth Kits at www.kingarthurflour.com.

Christine

On 2007-06-04, Christine Dabney > wrote:


> Kit. He says that gives the closest thing to a real "pizza" oven. It
> is still only an approximation though...

Looks like a gimmick, to me. Do you have that book, The Bread Builders?

nb