I have a two pound roast beef that I was going to cook for tea
tonight. (with roast potatoes, gravy, yorkshirepuds and veg)
Normally I cook it in the oven and have it slightly pink in the
middle.

Now the trouble is since I am pregnant I am not allowed to eat meat
that is not properly cooked through.

Shall I then make a pot roast of it or is there any good way of
cooking it in the oven withyout it getting dry?



/Erika

The first ten years of your life you try to be just like your parents.
Then for then years you try to be as little as your parents as possible.
Then you gradually change in to them.

In article >, Erika
> writes:

> have a two pound roast beef that I was going to cook for tea
>tonight. (with roast potatoes, gravy, yorkshirepuds and veg)
>Normally I cook it in the oven and have it slightly pink in the
>middle.
>
>Now the trouble is since I am pregnant I am not allowed to eat meat
>that is not properly cooked through.
>
>Shall I then make a pot roast of it or is there any good way of
>cooking it in the oven withyout it getting dry?

Which cut?

Btw, pink in the center is indeed properly cooked through.


---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
Sheldon
````````````
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."

On 05 Oct 2003 17:01:09 GMT, (PENMART01) wrote:

>Btw, pink in the center is indeed properly cooked through.


I wish. Midwife says no. Listeria risk. Everything nice is on the
no-no list.

I don´t know the name of the cut in english. It is situated on the
innerthigh on the cow.


/Erika

The first ten years of your life you try to be just like your parents.
Then for then years you try to be as little as your parents as possible.
Then you gradually change in to them.

Erika wrote:

> I have a two pound roast beef that I was going to cook for tea
> tonight. (with roast potatoes, gravy, yorkshirepuds and veg)

You eat potatoes while pregnant? Haven't you
ever heard of solanine poisoning?

Mark Thorson wrote:
> Erika wrote:
>
>> I have a two pound roast beef that I was going to cook for tea
>> tonight. (with roast potatoes, gravy, yorkshirepuds and veg)
>
> You eat potatoes while pregnant? Haven't you
> ever heard of solanine poisoning?

Agreed; eating is banned while pregnant. The midwife says so.

Jill

Erika writes:

>(PENMART01) wrote:
>
>>Btw, pink in the center is indeed properly cooked through.
>
> I wish. Midwife says no. Listeria risk.

There's no listeria risk whatsoever with beef roast regardless how cooked.

>I don´t know the name of the cut in english.

That's English (capitalized). You are rapidly losing all credibility.


---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
Sheldon
````````````
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."

On 05 Oct 2003 19:30:00 GMT, (PENMART01) wrote:

>That's English (capitalized). You are rapidly losing all credibility.
>
>
>---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =---
> ---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
>Sheldon
>````````````
>"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
>

Ska vi ta det här på mitt språk nu? Or didn't you understand my
language at all? Tsk tsk Sheldon, how is your spelling in my
language?

/Erika

The first ten years of your life you try to be just like your parents.
Then for then years you try to be as little as your parents as possible.
Then you gradually change in to them.

On Sun, 5 Oct 2003 14:09:51 -0500, "jmcquown" >
wrote:

>Mark Thorson wrote:
>> Erika wrote:
>>
>>> I have a two pound roast beef that I was going to cook for tea
>>> tonight. (with roast potatoes, gravy, yorkshirepuds and veg)
>>
>> You eat potatoes while pregnant? Haven't you
>> ever heard of solanine poisoning?
>
>Agreed; eating is banned while pregnant. The midwife says so.
>
>Jill


I think you are being nasty now. This is my first child. I have never
been pregnant before. Coping with neausia is enough. I will not
question the advice of the midwife and the pregnancy books (one
english one swedish). I somehow think that trained professionals know
mopre than I do.



/Erika

The first ten years of your life you try to be just like your parents.
Then for then years you try to be as little as your parents as possible.
Then you gradually change in to them.

Erika wrote:

> Ska vi ta det här på mitt språk nu? Or didn't you understand my
> language at all? Tsk tsk Sheldon, how is your spelling in my
> language?

She just called you a språk, Sheldon.
You gonna take that lying down?

Erika wrote:

> I think you are being nasty now. This is my first child. I have never
> been pregnant before. Coping with neausia is enough. I will not
> question the advice of the midwife and the pregnancy books (one
> english one swedish). I somehow think that trained professionals know
> mopre than I do.

Here's a good resource for info on listeria. FWIW, I don't think beef
is a concern, but fish and chicken are. Cook your chicken to 165 F, and
stay away from raw fish.

http://www.about-listeria.com/page2.htm

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 21:13:18 GMT, Reg > wrote:

>
>Erika wrote:
>
>> I think you are being nasty now. This is my first child. I have never
>> been pregnant before. Coping with neausia is enough. I will not
>> question the advice of the midwife and the pregnancy books (one
>> english one swedish). I somehow think that trained professionals know
>> mopre than I do.
>
>Here's a good resource for info on listeria. FWIW, I don't think beef
>is a concern, but fish and chicken are. Cook your chicken to 165 F, and
>stay away from raw fish.
>
>http://www.about-listeria.com/page2.htm


Listeria isn't the only concern though. There are other microorganisms
they warn you about. See my other thread where I have posted what the
health and safety authority recomends.
/Erika

The first ten years of your life you try to be just like your parents.
Then for then years you try to be as little as your parents as possible.
Then you gradually change in to them.

Mark Thorson writes:

>Erika wrote:
>
>> Ska vi ta det här på mitt språk nu? Or didn't you understand my
>> language at all? Tsk tsk Sheldon, how is your spelling in my
>> language?
>
>She just called you a språk, Sheldon.
>You gonna take that lying down?

Erika can take me in any position she prefers... I'll be honored to be lying
down while Erica takes me, with her huge heavy pregnant breasts up close and
personal... ohmygawd!!!... in this position Erika can call me anything she
likes.


---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
Sheldon
````````````
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."

"Erika" > wrote in message
> I somehow think that trained professionals know
> mpre than I do.
>


Don't bet on it. Some do, others don't. Do your own research to back up
what the trained pro has to say. Sometimes they are wrong, DEAD wrong.

Listeria is a concern with hot dogs, but much less so with a beef roast
(find out what temperature the bacteria is killed). Look at the facts and
make your decision based on what you know, not what a supposedly trained
professional tells you. If you don't take charge of your body, don't expect
to get good results from the doctor, as he does not know how you feel.

Doctors are not dieticians and have little training in the field. The
mis-information they spread about dietary needs is horrific. I won't boor
you with many examples, but I've had quite a few instances in the past
couple of years. This one is a classic though, at a seminar given by our
medical center. My wife was given a list of foods good and bad for CHF
patients.

Good:
Milk
Ice Cream

Bad:
Milkshakes

I tried to get an explanation, but the alleged dietician could not give me
one, but just said to follow the instructions. Does that make sense to you?

Get facts. Make your own decisions. Good luck with your pregnancy. Keep
in mind they women have been having babies for many centuries. They
survived and you will too!

Reg > writes:

>Here's a good resource for info on listeria. FWIW, I don't think beef
>is a concern

Yep, Erika is a liar and a fraud.


---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
Sheldon
````````````
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."

On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 21:48:56 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" >
wrote:

>Keep in mind they women have been having babies for many centuries. They
>survived and you will too!
>
>
'
And keep in mind that women rarely die from childbirth today and a lot
more kids survive their first birthday today than a hundred years ago.




/Erika

The first ten years of your life you try to be just like your parents.
Then for then years you try to be as little as your parents as possible.
Then you gradually change in to them.

PENMART01 wrote:
> Reg > writes:
>
>
>>Here's a good resource for info on listeria. FWIW, I don't think beef
>>is a concern
>
>
> Yep, Erika is a liar and a fraud.

No, I think just in need of better and more complete information.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

"Erika" > wrote in message
> >
> '
> And keep in mind that women rarely die from childbirth today and a lot
> more kids survive their first birthday today than a hundred years ago.
>

Sure, the nomadic tribes where a woman would lean up against a tree, drop
the baby, then catch up to the rest of the tribe.

Yes, we've come a long way, but there have been many missteps along the way.
Not that many years ago if you had a baby, you'd stay in the hospital for a
week, then finish recuperation at home. Now they scoot you out in a
healthier 24 hours. Sure, exceptions exist, but like I said, do your own
research and make your own decision, based on facts. Only you know what is
best for you.
Ed

>She just called you a språk, Sheldon.
>You gonna take that lying down?
>
>

he will take it any way he can get it from a woman since it does not happen
often if at all.

--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

Erika,

First, my qualifications: I was trained as a microbiologist in college,
though I never worked in the field. I am now a chef, and just passed a
few weeks ago my recurrent food sanitation course and test.

I looked up Listeria Monocytogenes (the only infectious member of the
Listerosis genus) and found the following in my Basic Medical
Microbiology book.
"L. Monocytogones is a diptheriod-like bacillus (motile, gram positive)
found primarily in the intestinal tract of birds and mammals. It
sometimes infests humans and the disease is called listerosis.
Infections are more common in neonates, the microorganism being
transferred from other to fetus. The microorganisms have been associated
with still birth and meningitis."

Next, I looked it up in my Essentials of food safety and sanitation
manual, second edition. This is the 'standard' book on food safety
classes in Florida.

Without copying a lot of material, it says that L. Monocytogones is
particularly nasty, in apart because it is one of the few bacteria that
can grow at refrigerator temperatures (41 F/5C). It is most often
associated with raw milk, dairy items, raw meats, ready-to-eat foods,
meats such as hot dogs (i.e. sausages to non-North Americans), raw
vegetables, and seafood. In other words, a LOT of things can carry L.
Monocytogones.

Now, starting with this information, let's proceed logically.

It is a potentially fatal bug.

However, except for the warning that it can grow at 41F/5C), there are
no special warning/precautions noted that you should take.

So, what should you do? What I would do is:

Don't store potentially dangerous foods along time, because of the low
temperature growth 'problem'. Buy small quantities, eat what you want,
and discard the rest. Food can be dangerous and not smell/taste bad.
This is called a potentially dangerous food. L. Monocytogones can easily
create potentially dangerous food, because of it's cold temperature
growth abilities.

Monitor the temperature of your refrigerator. Buy and check a
refrigerator thermometer.

Avoid the foods above, unless properly cooked.

And what is properly cooked? Well, beef is properly cooked (rare) at
130F/54C, if held for 121 minutes (I know, bizarre times...)
Or, it is properly cooked (medium) at 145F/63C, if heated to this
internal temperature for 3 minutes.



Keep in mind the following:

The inside of a piece of meat is pretty close to sterile. I mean, the
outside may be very contaminated, but a piece of meat is pretty hard for
a bacteria to invade internally.

The outside temperature of a piece of meat will be at the temperature of
the oven after a few minutes. All, and I mean all, bacteria are killed
at 350F/177C, the most commonly used cooking temperature.

This means that hamburger, which is essentially all 'outside' meat (the
outsides are now inside, because of the grinding), and thus considered
contaminated. Hamburger and other ground meats (not poultry) must be
cooked to 155F/68C for 15 seconds to be safe. This is medium, bordering
on medium well.

All poultry must be cooked to 165F/74C to be safe.

By the way, I would avoid cooking using a microwave if you are worried
about food safety. Since they heat food unevenly, it is very possible to
get cool spots in food cooked in a microwave.

Given all the above information, I would think that medium roast beef
would be one of the safest foods around!

I hope this helps.

Colin
Clearwater, FL, USA







Erika wrote:
> I have a two pound roast beef that I was going to cook for tea
> tonight. (with roast potatoes, gravy, yorkshirepuds and veg)
> Normally I cook it in the oven and have it slightly pink in the
> middle.
>
> Now the trouble is since I am pregnant I am not allowed to eat meat
> that is not properly cooked through.
>
> Shall I then make a pot roast of it or is there any good way of
> cooking it in the oven withyout it getting dry?
>
>
>
> /Erika
>
> The first ten years of your life you try to be just like your parents.
> Then for then years you try to be as little as your parents as possible.
> Then you gradually change in to them.

In article > , "Edwin
Pawlowski" > wrote:



> couple of years. This one is a classic though, at a seminar given by our
> medical center. My wife was given a list of foods good and bad for CHF
> patients.
>
> Good:
> Milk
> Ice Cream
>
> Bad:
> Milkshakes
>
> I tried to get an explanation, but the alleged dietician could not give me
> one, but just said to follow the instructions. Does that make sense to you?


Makes perfect sense to me. I've listened to dieticians several times, and
they have an amazing ability to hold two contradictory pieces of advice at
the same time. The only thing that surprises me is that the dietician
couldn't come up with an explanation. They usually can. Let me make one
up for you:

D: "The milkshake is bad for you because of the sugar."
E: "But the ice cream has just as much sugar!"
D: "No, the ice cream has about a third as much sugar."
E: "But, you are comparing 1/2 cup of ice cream with 2 cups of milkshakes"
D: "Yes, those are the recommended serving sizes."


I swear that I've heard this explanation from a dietician, although it was
a different food item.

--
Dan Abel
Sonoma State University
AIS

Mark Thorson wrote:

>
> > I have a two pound roast beef that I was going to cook for tea
> > tonight. (with roast potatoes, gravy, yorkshirepuds and veg)
>
> You eat potatoes while pregnant? Haven't you
> ever heard of solanine poisoning?

How many bushels of green potatoes skins or eyes do you have to eat
before you even have to start worrying about solanine poisoning?

"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
...
:
: Mark Thorson wrote:
:
: >
: > > I have a two pound roast beef that I was going to cook for
tea
: > > tonight. (with roast potatoes, gravy, yorkshirepuds and
veg)
: >
: > You eat potatoes while pregnant? Haven't you
: > ever heard of solanine poisoning?
:
: How many bushels of green potatoes skins or eyes do you have to
eat
: before you even have to start worrying about solanine
poisoning?
:
:
===========

I ate a couple dozen POUNDS of potatoes (none of them green
and/or green spots cut out) during my pregnancy. I averaged 2
potatoes a day plus a medium order of McDonald fries at least 2
times per week. Surprisingly, Nathan (charming 4 y/o monster)
doesn't much care for potatoes. Huh! Whodathunk?

Cyndi
<Remove a "b" to reply>

In article <iTlgb.511165$cF.181271@rwcrnsc53>, "Rick & Cyndi"
> wrote:


> : Mark Thorson wrote:

> : > You eat potatoes while pregnant? Haven't you
> : > ever heard of solanine poisoning?


> I ate a couple dozen POUNDS of potatoes (none of them green
> and/or green spots cut out) during my pregnancy. I averaged 2
> potatoes a day plus a medium order of McDonald fries at least 2
> times per week.


First of all, anytime you see the name "Mark Thorson", you can expect to
have your leg pulled.

Still, the math looks funny here. The average medium potato is about 1/2
pound. If you ate two a day, that's a pound a day. A pregnancy is 9
months, so let's call that 250 days. That's 250 pounds of potatoes, not
two dozen!

--
Dan Abel
Sonoma State University
AIS

"Dan Abel" > wrote in message
...
: In article <iTlgb.511165$cF.181271@rwcrnsc53>, "Rick & Cyndi"
: > wrote:
:
:
: > : Mark Thorson wrote:
:
: > : > You eat potatoes while pregnant? Haven't you
: > : > ever heard of solanine poisoning?
:
:
: > I ate a couple dozen POUNDS of potatoes (none of them green
: > and/or green spots cut out) during my pregnancy. I averaged
2
: > potatoes a day plus a medium order of McDonald fries at least
2
: > times per week.
:
:
: First of all, anytime you see the name "Mark Thorson", you can
expect to
: have your leg pulled.
:
: Still, the math looks funny here. The average medium potato is
about 1/2
: pound. If you ate two a day, that's a pound a day. A
pregnancy is 9
: months, so let's call that 250 days. That's 250 pounds of
potatoes, not
: two dozen!
:
: --
: Dan Abel
=====

I really wasn't paying any attention to Mark... just making the
comment that I ate a lot of potatoes during my pregnancy.

The potatoes I ate weighed an average of only 4 oz ( I like the
little red ones best but occasionally did eat the typical brown
Idaho spuds). I also stated that I averaged 2 per day (some days
more some days less).

Thanks for telling everybody that I made a pig of myself Dan! A
couple dozen sounded way better than the 16 1/2 dozen potatoes
that I probably ate.

Humph, don't think I'll be talking quantities of food around Dan
anymore... (grumble grumble). LOL


Cyndi
<Remove a "b" to reply>

> Good:
> Milk
> Ice Cream

Was there more to the list than this? For instance, milk is a good
source of protein, but since fat needs to be minimized by cardiac
patients, they should be using 1% or skim milk. Likewise, the sugar in
ice cream isn't relevant (unless the pt is diabetic) but the high fat
content IS, so the list should have specified low- or no-fat ice cream,
ice milk, or frozen yogurt.

I suspect milkshakes were in the "bad" category because
commercial/restaurant milkshakes are high-fat.


--
Sylvia Steiger RN, homeschooling mom since Nov 1995
http://www.SteigerFamily.com
Cheyenne WY, USDA zone 5a, Sunset zone 1a
Home of the Wyoming Wind Festival, January 1-December 31
Remove "removethis" from address to reply

> Now the trouble is since I am pregnant I am not allowed to eat meat
> that is not properly cooked through.

Erika, I would challenge your midwife to find a study or official
advisory showing a risk from the INSIDE of rare beef. There may
certainly be one, but I've never heard of it.

There ARE risks from:

poultry not cooked to 180 F (salmonella)
most kinds of fish and other seafood (heavy metal poisoning)
pork not cooked through (trichinosis or something similar, I can't
remember the spelling)
ground beef not cooked through (I forget which bacteria that puts you at
risk for)
handling any raw meat (be SURE to wash your hands well with soap and rub
them under running water -- an antibacterial no-water-needed hand
cleaner would be even better)

But the interior of an intact cut of meat shouldn't put you at risk for
any bugs that I know of, almost regardless of how cooked (if cooked very
rare the outside, where any bacteria are located, might not be heated to
an adequate temp for an adequate period of time to kill them, so simply
slicing the meat with a knife could *possibly* transfer bacteria to the
inside). Unlikely, but knowing how easily a developing baby can be
affected, I always erred on the safe side when I was pregnant with my
own kids.

If your midwife does have an authoritative source, please share it. No
one has time to keep up with all the research and I always like to
improve my knowledge so I can teach my own patients as accurately as
possible.

--
Sylvia Steiger RN, homeschooling mom since Nov 1995
http://www.SteigerFamily.com
Cheyenne WY, USDA zone 5a, Sunset zone 1a
Home of the Wyoming Wind Festival, January 1-December 31
Remove "removethis" from address to reply

Colin, I'm glad you jumped in. I know what I found when I did
literature searches on various subjects when I was pregnant, but my
youngest child is now almost 12 so it's been a while.

--
Sylvia Steiger RN, homeschooling mom since Nov 1995
http://www.SteigerFamily.com
Cheyenne WY, USDA zone 5a, Sunset zone 1a
Home of the Wyoming Wind Festival, January 1-December 31
Remove "removethis" from address to reply

On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 02:14:33 GMT, Sylvia > wrote:

>Was there more to the list than this? For instance, milk is a good
>source of protein, but since fat needs to be minimized by cardiac
>patients, they should be using 1% or skim milk. Likewise, the sugar in
>ice cream isn't relevant (unless the pt is diabetic) but the high fat
>content IS, so the list should have specified low- or no-fat ice cream,
>ice milk, or frozen yogurt.

I hope this changes sugar is no big deal but fat is? I think it will become
known that the other way around is far better. all the breads and carbs we eat
I think are far worse for us then fat is since fat is a natural human food.

--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

Sylvia wrote:

> > Now the trouble is since I am pregnant I am not allowed to eat meat
> > that is not properly cooked through.
>
> Erika, I would challenge your midwife to find a study or official
> advisory showing a risk from the INSIDE of rare beef. There may
> certainly be one, but I've never heard of it.

Exactly. Bacterial contamination is almost exclusively a surface
phenomenon.

> There ARE risks from:
>
> poultry not cooked to 180 F (salmonella)

Salmonella is dead before 140F

> most kinds of fish and other seafood (heavy metal poisoning)

Some kinds of fish. The smaller the fish, the lower the likelihood.

> pork not cooked through (trichinosis or something similar, I can't
> remember the spelling)

Not in the US. Trichina is dead at 140F (and it can be killed by
freezing appropriately) but commercial pork hasn't given anyone
trichinosis in a very long time.

> ground beef not cooked through (I forget which bacteria that puts you at
> risk for)

Several, actually. Depending on where the beef comes from, it can be
eaten from raw to well-done. Home-ground is safest. Storebought ground
beef should be cooked to 165F to really be safe.

> handling any raw meat (be SURE to wash your hands well with soap and rub
> them under running water -- an antibacterial no-water-needed hand
> cleaner would be even better)

Soap and water are adequate. The no-rinse ones will add a bit of
flavor to foods if not rinsed before handling them.

> But the interior of an intact cut of meat shouldn't put you at risk for
> any bugs that I know of, almost regardless of how cooked (if cooked very
> rare the outside, where any bacteria are located, might not be heated to
> an adequate temp for an adequate period of time to kill them, so simply
> slicing the meat with a knife could *possibly* transfer bacteria to the
> inside). Unlikely, but knowing how easily a developing baby can be
> affected, I always erred on the safe side when I was pregnant with my
> own kids.

You're quite correct with this. The outside of a roast is virtually
sterile by the time the inside approaches eating temperatures. But
Murphy's Laws are all still in effect. An extra bit of caution is
wise, IMO.

Pastorio

> If your midwife does have an authoritative source, please share it. No
> one has time to keep up with all the research and I always like to
> improve my knowledge so I can teach my own patients as accurately as
> possible.
>

Bob Pastorio a écrit :

> > But the interior of an intact cut of meat shouldn't put you at risk for
> > any bugs that I know of, almost regardless of how cooked (if cooked very
> > rare the outside, where any bacteria are located, might not be heated to
> > an adequate temp for an adequate period of time to kill them, so simply
> > slicing the meat with a knife could *possibly* transfer bacteria to the
> > inside). Unlikely, but knowing how easily a developing baby can be
> > affected, I always erred on the safe side when I was pregnant with my
> > own kids.
>
> You're quite correct with this. The outside of a roast is virtually
> sterile by the time the inside approaches eating temperatures. But
> Murphy's Laws are all still in effect. An extra bit of caution is
> wise, IMO.

Toxoplasmosis, if the pregnant woman hasn't had it (one gets immunization from
previous infection, it's routinely tested at the beginning of pregnancy). It's
totally benign for anybody but pregnant women (hurts the baby, nervous system
IIRC), and you can catch it from raw meat, raw cured meat (prosciutto etc.),
vegetables not washed properly, and cleaning cat boxes.
I was sooooooo happy to have had it before pregnancy, I could go on eating my
rare steaks :-)

Nathalie in Switzerland