On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 04:32:01 GMT, Dog3
> wrote:

> "Edwin Pawlowski" > deliciously posted in
> :
>
> >
> > "Dog3" > wrote in message
> >> I agree to a certain point. What amazes me is people that order the
> >> wrong thing thinking they have ordered something else.
> >
> > That sounds like such a dumb thing, bit I've seen it happen. Worked
> > with a fellow that did not like tuna fish warm. Did not matter if it
> > was a sandwich, or casserole, if it was heated, he said he despised
> > it. Then we are at lunch one day and he ordered a tuna meld. When it
> > was served, he said he did not order it. Three of us heard him say
> > it, but he denied it. Ed
>
> We have one of those in the office. Low sodium diet but orders Chinese 3
> times a week and complains about the sodium in the soy sauce. I have
> suggested she bring her own bottle and store it in her filing cabinet.
> There *is* lite sodium Soy Sauce available. No she says "It wouldn't be
> authentic." She's talking about a $5.00 combo lunch from Chinese take out
> that is delivered. Gawd!
>
This is what we call "attention getting". They were
probably kids who got attention with such actions and they
never "grew up (emotionally).

On 9 Oct 2003 13:08:31 -0400, (Mark
Shaw) wrote:

> In article >,
> sf > wrote:
> >On 8 Oct 2003 15:15:52 -0400, (Mark
> >Shaw) wrote:
> >>
> >> One place I worked kept everybody's check averages on a white-
> >> board. Every month or so the names of those who were consis-
> >> tently in the bottom 10% (one or two waitrons usually) were
> >> erased -- that's how you knew it was time to drop off your apron
> >> and pick up your final paycheck.
> >
> >Eeeew. That's too cold for words.
>
> One of the assistant managers came up with a scheme to get
> people to come in on time -- if you arrived for work more
> than 5 minutes late, he sent you home. Not so bad, I guess,
> on the face of it -- you ought to be able to show up on time
> -- but working a busy friday night with a fifth of the rest
> of the waitstaff simply missing was no fun.

I think that supervisor has never been a victim of Public
Transportation. 5 minutes late is as good as on time. I've
been over an hour late for jobs (that I left for in plenty
of time) when I let myself be a victim of public
transportation.
>
> This was Sea Galley, which was a spinoff of Red Lobster

I can say that I've never eaten at a Red Lobster. I've
eaten at Red Robbins, but I didn'think it was good enough to
brag about.
>
> This guy also used to ask his tables who'd paid with plastic if
> they wanted him to calculate and add his tip to the credit slip
> or "leave that up to them." He even suggested an amount, but I
> don't remember if it was 15% or 20%.

It's just another common practiice. You need to be prepared
to answer....

On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 05:49:56 GMT, Dog3
> wrote:

> sf > deliciously posted in
> :
>
> > On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 06:07:26 GMT, Dog3
> > > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Unless the neighboring table is extremely intrusive, I rarely notice
> >> them.
> >
> > You must be partially deff in that case. I can hear
> > conversations from tables FAR away, Of course, that isn't
> > in a restaurant with a "bomb" rating for noise. For
> > those... it seems I can hear the next table just fine, but I
> > can't follow what's being said at my table.
>
> I am not at all interested in the tables next to me, or around the room I
> tune them out like I do Supermarket music.
>
There aren't many places where I have problem ignoring
ambient conversations, but I remember one "Top 'O the List"
place that we went to and honest to heaven, I heard the
conversation at the next table better than that at mine.
The acoustics were very BAD. The restaurant was rated a
"bomb" which means it's going to be NOISY!
> >
> >> I'm much more interested in the food and the companionship of the
> >> people at the table I am sitting at.
> >
> > Good for you.
> >
> >> I tend to tune out the background noise except
> >> for pagers and cell phones.
> >
> > That's a problem of the past where I live.
>
> Really? What was done to curtail the intrusions?
>
>
No ban... It's discouraged in places like movie theaters
and it's a considered common courtesy around here.
>
> >
> >> I think all electronic devices (the exception
> >> being lifesaving electronics) should be confiscated at the door of
> >> all restaurants. I witnessed a woman on a cell phone pacing up and
> >> down the aisle at a very nice restaurant one evening. I noticed her
> >> because she knocked the candle over on my table with an armswing as
> >> she was shouting at her assistant. Management hauled her out, cell
> >> phone stuck in her ear. I've heard she's banned for life.
> >>
> > Again, that sort of thing is totally passe around here.
>
> See above. I would love to know what was done to curtail it.

Public opinion seems to have a big say so around here.

> It is
> getting worse here. You can't even go to the doctors office without some
> clod disturbing you with a yappity cell call.
>
In my experience, only the clueless have phone calls of any
duration within hearing range of me. Those who have a clue
get up and leave the area to continue the call.

On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 05:49:56 GMT, Dog3
> wrote:

> sf > deliciously posted in
> :
>
> > On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 06:07:26 GMT, Dog3

> >> I tend to tune out the background noise except
> >> for pagers and cell phones.
> >
> > That's a problem of the past where I live.
>
> Really? What was done to curtail the intrusions?
>
Nothing that I can point to. People grew up... that's all.
>
> >
> >> I think all electronic devices (the exception
> >> being lifesaving electronics) should be confiscated at the door of
> >> all restaurants. I witnessed a woman on a cell phone pacing up and
> >> down the aisle at a very nice restaurant one evening. I noticed her
> >> because she knocked the candle over on my table with an armswing as
> >> she was shouting at her assistant. Management hauled her out, cell
> >> phone stuck in her ear. I've heard she's banned for life.
> >>
> > Again, that sort of thing is totally passe around here.
>
> See above. I would love to know what was done to curtail it. It is
> getting worse here. You can't even go to the doctors office without some
> clod disturbing you with a yappity cell call.

All I can say is that we must be on the leading edge of the
learning curve. The rest of the country will follow CA as
they become accostoed to electronic devics and the fact that
they can easily annoy others.
>
> Michael

sf wrote:
>
> On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 11:10:26 -0400, Nancy Young
> > wrote:
>
> >
> > Also at Christmas I'd leave an extra large tip at places where I was
> > a real regular and had a raport with the bartenders.
> >
> > nancy
>
> You can't believe what a laugh you got from me with that
> statement,.. I remember you said you're a "non" (or low
> volume)-drinker who likes Pub food.

Oh, you so have me confused with someone else. I usually have two
glasses of wine when I eat out. But yeah, I do like the food they
tend to serve in pub restaurants.

> So, when you say "It's the conversation", you really mean
> it!

Definitely, it's the company. Catch up with friends. I go out
sometimes when I'm not even remotely hungry. I'll just order
something with the idea that most of it is going home with me,
or just get an appetizer for lunch.

(laugh) I met a friend a few weeks ago, I didn't feel great, but
I wanted to see her. So, I just ordered artichoke dip, you should
have seen this thing. It was enormous, we were laughing, I'm not
hungry, I'll just pick and this huge platter shows up on this huge
stand! Right in my face, blech.

nancy

Craig Welch wrote:
>
> On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 22:06:33 -0400, Nancy Young

> >Did you miss the part where that is a really stupid way to assume
> >people know how to get attention?
>
> I assume that you would expect all restaurants in China to have
> signs, in English, explaining that knife and fork will not be
> provided, and that one should ask the waiter for alternative
> instruction?

They were in an AIRPORT. One would assume not everyone there is
from Singapore. Besides, I doubt tipping over statues is the norm
in every restaurant in Singapore.

nancy

"Craig Welch" > wrote in message
...

>
> On the same basis, do airport restaurants in the US have signs
> saying 'please note that you must pay a portion of your bill to the
> waitress'? Or is one just expected to know that?
>

That sort of reminds me of a professor I had in university. He returned our
papers with a complaint about the lack of page numbers. He told us if the
next papers submitted had no page numbers, he would refuse to mark them.
One student replied, "But you didn't tell us we needed page numbers" and he
replied "I didn't tell you to write it in English, either, but you did." I
thought it was hilarious but others were not as amused.

rona

--
***For e-mail, replace .com with .ca Sorry for the inconvenience!***

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 07:53:49 -0500, "Rona Yuthasastrakosol"
> wrote:

>"Craig Welch" > wrote
>>
>> On the same basis, do airport restaurants in the US have signs
>> saying 'please note that you must pay a portion of your bill to the
>> waitress'? Or is one just expected to know that?

>That sort of reminds me of a professor I had in university. He returned our
>papers with a complaint about the lack of page numbers. He told us if the
>next papers submitted had no page numbers, he would refuse to mark them.
>One student replied, "But you didn't tell us we needed page numbers" and he
>replied "I didn't tell you to write it in English, either, but you did." I
>thought it was hilarious but others were not as amused.

I recall "who is the chairman of the Federal Reserve Board?" on an
economics test. Classmates complained this wasn't in the book nor
discussed in class. Professor said if one was studying economics, this
was something one should know. BTW, it was William McChesney Martin
(chairman from 1951 to 1970) at the time. I have never forgotten this
bit of lore.

Julia Altshuler wrote:

>
> > here a pitcher of milk for her tea. Then she asked for a glass of milk. He brought
> > back a glass of milk. Then she asked for a glass of juice. The waiter went away
> > and we never saw him again. I can't blame the guy.
> >
>
> Maybe the waiter was good looking, and the niece had a crush on him!

I hope not. Her husbadnd was there. The woman weighs in at about 350 lb and thinks the
world revolves around her.

"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
...

> I hope not. Her husbadnd was there. The woman weighs in at about 350 lb
and thinks the
> world revolves around her.

No, it would revolve around their common center of mass...:-)

Bob M.

Bob Myers wrote:

> > I hope not. Her husbadnd was there. The woman weighs in at about 350 =
lb
> and thinks the
> > world revolves around her.
>
> No, it would revolve around their common center of mass...:-)

LOL
I hate the pleasure of dining with the niece yesterday. There was a
significant family event yesterday, followed by a breakfast brunch. Buffe=
ts
are the favourite dining venues for people like her. I went over to the
buffer serving area, grabbed a plate and scoped out the offerings. I grab=
bed
some lobster, some shrimp, some baked salmon, some fruit and a roll then
returned to the table and sat down to enjoy it. Later on I returned to t=
he
buffet and got some more fruit and sampled some of the desserts. Meanwhil=
e,
the hefty niece came back with not one, but two plates, stacked high with=
a
variety of foods. A while later, she headed off and got her second (third=
and
fourth) helpings. One plate was piled up with lobsters, shrimp and mussel=
s.
The other was piled up with scrambled eggs, bacon, ham, sausages, turkey =
and
roast beef.

I started to doubt her ability to eat it all. She was slowing down and ev=
en
paused her grazing for 5-10 minutes. But then she regained her energy and=

finished it off.

After brunch we headed off to her step sisters for a reception. Our hosts=
had
laid out a wonderful assortment of snacks. The niece migrated to the room=

with a huge table covered with delicious canap=E9s. She never left that r=
oom
until ushered out by the hostess and her helpers who wanted to remove the=

canap=E9s to make room for the dinner platters. .

"Craig Welch" > wrote in message
...
> On 9 Oct 2003 13:08:31 -0400, (Mark Shaw)
> wrote:
>
> >This guy also used to ask his tables who'd paid with plastic if
> >they wanted him to calculate and add his tip to the credit slip
> >or "leave that up to them." He even suggested an amount, but I
> >don't remember if it was 15% or 20%.
>
> I can't think of a more sure way of ensuring that I would not tip at
> all.
>
> --
> Craig

Last night, a friend and I went to dinner and the tab came to just over
65.00. We came up with 4 twenties and got 14 ones in change - the perfect
denomination for tipping. UGH!!! The service was good and we left a tip
but I hate it when they do that.

"Julianne" > wrote in message
news:4cUib.88044$k74.15606@lakeread05...
>
> "Craig Welch" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On 9 Oct 2003 13:08:31 -0400, (Mark Shaw)
> > wrote:
> >
> > >This guy also used to ask his tables who'd paid with plastic if
> > >they wanted him to calculate and add his tip to the credit slip
> > >or "leave that up to them." He even suggested an amount, but I
> > >don't remember if it was 15% or 20%.
> >
> > I can't think of a more sure way of ensuring that I would not tip at
> > all.
> >
> > --
> > Craig
>
> Last night, a friend and I went to dinner and the tab came to just over
> 65.00. We came up with 4 twenties and got 14 ones in change - the perfect
> denomination for tipping. UGH!!! The service was good and we left a tip
> but I hate it when they do that.
>

Let's see, the waiter assumed you were a courteous and generous person and
would therefore leave a tip, and brought you small bills so you could easily
leave the exact tip desired. What's to hate?


--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.

In article <4cUib.88044$k74.15606@lakeread05>, "Julianne"
> wrote:


> Last night, a friend and I went to dinner and the tab came to just over
> 65.00. We came up with 4 twenties and got 14 ones in change - the perfect
> denomination for tipping. UGH!!! The service was good and we left a tip
> but I hate it when they do that.


I don't have a big problem with that, although 14 ones is a little
excessive. It's a lot easier to bring small denominations in anticipation
of tipping, rather than bring large bills and then have the customer give
some back and ask that they be broken. This saves the waitstaff a trip,
and more importantly, this gets me out sooner. I don't want to wait
around while they make multiple trips to the cash register. For instance,
if my bill is $14, and I pay with a twenty, if they bring back a five and
a one, then the five is too much to tip, and the one is too little.

--
Dan Abel
Sonoma State University
AIS

On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:00:11 -0500, "Julianne" >
wrote:

>
>"Craig Welch" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On 9 Oct 2003 13:08:31 -0400, (Mark Shaw)
>> wrote:
>>
>> >This guy also used to ask his tables who'd paid with plastic if
>> >they wanted him to calculate and add his tip to the credit slip
>> >or "leave that up to them." He even suggested an amount, but I
>> >don't remember if it was 15% or 20%.
>>
>> I can't think of a more sure way of ensuring that I would not tip at
>> all.
>>
>> --
>> Craig
>
>Last night, a friend and I went to dinner and the tab came to just over
>65.00. We came up with 4 twenties and got 14 ones in change - the perfect
>denomination for tipping. UGH!!! The service was good and we left a tip
>but I hate it when they do that.
>

And perhaps several parties previous to you also came up with all
twenties. Doesn't take much of that to run out of fives and tens in a
hurry.

......Alan.


Post no bills

"Dan Abel" > wrote in message
...
> In article <4cUib.88044$k74.15606@lakeread05>, "Julianne"
> > wrote:
>
>
> > Last night, a friend and I went to dinner and the tab came to just over
> > 65.00. We came up with 4 twenties and got 14 ones in change - the
perfect
> > denomination for tipping. UGH!!! The service was good and we left a
tip
> > but I hate it when they do that.
>
>
> I don't have a big problem with that, although 14 ones is a little
> excessive. It's a lot easier to bring small denominations in anticipation
> of tipping, rather than bring large bills and then have the customer give
> some back and ask that they be broken. This saves the waitstaff a trip,
> and more importantly, this gets me out sooner. I don't want to wait
> around while they make multiple trips to the cash register. For instance,
> if my bill is $14, and I pay with a twenty, if they bring back a five and
> a one, then the five is too much to tip, and the one is too little.
>
> --
> Dan Abel
> Sonoma State University
> AIS
>

I always appreciate it when a server brings small bills as change. For some
reason (illogical, I know, but real nevertheless) I tend to be embarrassed
when I have to ask the server to break a large bill so that I can leave a
tip. His foresight makes it so much more convenient for me. And it is
faster, as well.

Of course, I do agree that fourteen singles might be overdoing a bit.

Ron

On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:00:11 -0500, "Julianne" >
wrote:

>
>"Craig Welch" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On 9 Oct 2003 13:08:31 -0400, (Mark Shaw)
>> wrote:
>>
>> >This guy also used to ask his tables who'd paid with plastic if
>> >they wanted him to calculate and add his tip to the credit slip
>> >or "leave that up to them." He even suggested an amount, but I
>> >don't remember if it was 15% or 20%.
>>
>> I can't think of a more sure way of ensuring that I would not tip at
>> all.
>>
>> --
>> Craig
>
>Last night, a friend and I went to dinner and the tab came to just over
>65.00. We came up with 4 twenties and got 14 ones in change - the perfect
>denomination for tipping. UGH!!! The service was good and we left a tip
>but I hate it when they do that.
>

Some people just like to hate the fact they should tip in the US.
Cheap people are annoying. But 2-5's and 4-singles would have handled
any amount up to 14 bucks. I visit a local place a couple times a
week. I socialize, eat, drink, and have short business meetings
there. 14 bucks is not an unreasonable tip for a 65 dollar bill. If
you had even a touch of class you'd have said "it's even"

What goes around comes around, and your cheapness will someday bite
you in the ass.

Gar

Ron Audet wrote:

> > In article <4cUib.88044$k74.15606@lakeread05>, "Julianne"
> > > wrote:

> > > Last night, a friend and I went to dinner and the tab came to just over
> > > 65.00. We came up with 4 twenties and got 14 ones in change - the
> perfect
> > > denomination for tipping. UGH!!! The service was good and we left a
> tip
> > > but I hate it when they do that.

> I always appreciate it when a server brings small bills as change. For some
> reason (illogical, I know, but real nevertheless) I tend to be embarrassed
> when I have to ask the server to break a large bill so that I can leave a
> tip. His foresight makes it so much more convenient for me. And it is
> faster, as well.
>
> Of course, I do agree that fourteen singles might be overdoing a bit.

To me it sounds like a very experienced server. I don't have a
problem with what they did at all. First of all, most of the singles
should have gone back to them in the form of a tip. Ten of them
at a minimum. Now, you have four singles in case you two were the
'I had iced tea, you had wine, you owe more' types. So you had
four singles to divide, and that's with a bare minimum tip. When
some people split the bill they get fussy about who owes what and
I can really see giving them the option to duke it out without
having to make an extra trip to the table to split up a ten or five.

nancy

On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:00:11 -0500, "Julianne" >
wrote:
>
>Last night, a friend and I went to dinner and the tab came to just over
>65.00. We came up with 4 twenties and got 14 ones in change - the perfect
>denomination for tipping. UGH!!! The service was good and we left a tip
>but I hate it when they do that.

Do what? Give you change?

On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:08:51 -0400, Nancy Young >
wrote:

>To me it sounds like a very experienced server. I don't have a
>problem with what they did at all. First of all, most of the singles
>should have gone back to them in the form of a tip. Ten of them
>at a minimum. Now, you have four singles in case you two were the
>'I had iced tea, you had wine, you owe more' types.

^_^ We've all been through this discussion before. American tipping
is a scandal. At least with "15% service charge added," the loser in
the wine/dessert discussion isn't the server.

<Gar> wrote in message ...
> On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:00:11 -0500, "Julianne" >
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Craig Welch" > wrote in message
> .. .
> >> On 9 Oct 2003 13:08:31 -0400, (Mark Shaw)
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >This guy also used to ask his tables who'd paid with plastic if
> >> >they wanted him to calculate and add his tip to the credit slip
> >> >or "leave that up to them." He even suggested an amount, but I
> >> >don't remember if it was 15% or 20%.
> >>
> >> I can't think of a more sure way of ensuring that I would not tip at
> >> all.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Craig
> >
> >Last night, a friend and I went to dinner and the tab came to just over
> >65.00. We came up with 4 twenties and got 14 ones in change - the
perfect
> >denomination for tipping. UGH!!! The service was good and we left a
tip
> >but I hate it when they do that.
> >
>
> Some people just like to hate the fact they should tip in the US.
> Cheap people are annoying. But 2-5's and 4-singles would have handled
> any amount up to 14 bucks. I visit a local place a couple times a
> week. I socialize, eat, drink, and have short business meetings
> there. 14 bucks is not an unreasonable tip for a 65 dollar bill. If
> you had even a touch of class you'd have said "it's even"
>
> What goes around comes around, and your cheapness will someday bite
> you in the ass.
>

A $14 tip for a $65 tab is not unreasonable but it is rather generous - over
20% and that's assuming that the $65 does not include tax which should not
be included in tip calculations. Generous tipping is fine but there
*nothing* cheap about leaving less than $14 for a $65 bill. Also, class has
nothing to do with it, although I suppose that there are some people who
think, wrongly, that throwing a few extra bucks around gives them class.
The standard 15% would be about $10 and that is perfectly fine unless there
are special circumstances (extra good service, special requests, etc.).


--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.

On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 14:23:50 +1000, Craig Welch >
wrote:

>On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:00:11 -0500, "Julianne"
> wrote:

>>Last night, a friend and I went to dinner and the tab came to just over
>>65.00. We came up with 4 twenties and got 14 ones in change - the perfect
>>denomination for tipping. UGH!!! The service was good and we left a tip
>>but I hate it when they do that.
>
>So he'd already stolen $1 off you, and wanted more?

Read carefully. "just over $65" would require $14 + coins, which I
assume was included in the change, else Julianne would have mentioned
it

On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 14:25:49 +1000, Craig Welch >
wrote:

>On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:54:18 -0500, Gar <> wrote:
>
>>Some people just like to hate the fact they should tip in the US.
>>Cheap people are annoying. But 2-5's and 4-singles would have handled
>>any amount up to 14 bucks. I visit a local place a couple times a
>>week. I socialize, eat, drink, and have short business meetings
>>there. 14 bucks is not an unreasonable tip for a 65 dollar bill. If
>>you had even a touch of class you'd have said "it's even"
>
>So the tip doesn't have to have any relationship with the quality of
>the service, it has to do with some vague notion of 'class'?

As has been discussed here many times and at great length, tipping is
a very peculiar institution. Waitstaff (legally) usually receives
sub-minimum wage from their employer. The traditional assumption is
that tips will make up the difference. That is, at least 10% of each
check is supposed to be a voluntary contribution to the worker's basic
wage. And you see $15 as the price of a menu item, not $16.50 or
$18.00. To many, a 'tip' is payment/encouragement for extraordinary
service and attention. Or, sometimes, a fee they're not legally
obligated to pay for service of any kind.

It's not particularly classy to overtip IMHO (although it makes many
servers happy), but is *certainly* classier than under-tipping. $14
for a $65 tab is about 21% -- not an outrageous overpayment. However,
it's no crime to figure $9.75-$10 is adequate and pocket the other $4.

"Frogleg" > wrote in message
...
: On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 14:25:49 +1000, Craig Welch
>
: wrote:
:
: >On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:54:18 -0500, Gar <> wrote:
: >
: >>Some people just like to hate the fact they should tip in the
US.
: >>Cheap people are annoying. But 2-5's and 4-singles would
have handled
: >>any amount up to 14 bucks. I visit a local place a couple
times a
: >>week. I socialize, eat, drink, and have short business
meetings
: >>there. 14 bucks is not an unreasonable tip for a 65 dollar
bill. If
: >>you had even a touch of class you'd have said "it's even"
: >
: >So the tip doesn't have to have any relationship with the
quality of
: >the service, it has to do with some vague notion of 'class'?
:
: As has been discussed here many times and at great length,
tipping is
: a very peculiar institution. Waitstaff (legally) usually
receives
: sub-minimum wage from their employer. The traditional
assumption is
: that tips will make up the difference. That is, at least 10% of
each
: check is supposed to be a voluntary contribution to the
worker's basic
: wage. And you see $15 as the price of a menu item, not $16.50
or
: $18.00. To many, a 'tip' is payment/encouragement for
extraordinary
: service and attention. Or, sometimes, a fee they're not legally
: obligated to pay for service of any kind.
:
: It's not particularly classy to overtip IMHO (although it makes
many
: servers happy), but is *certainly* classier than under-tipping.
$14
: for a $65 tab is about 21% -- not an outrageous overpayment.
However,
: it's no crime to figure $9.75-$10 is adequate and pocket the
other $4.
==========

Huh. Well maybe I interpreted something different from the
original post... What I gathered was not that the poster had a
problem with tipping but the fact that the server brought back
*fourteen* ones - and no explanation about why. Even if the
server thought she was doing them and herself a favor - she could
have at least said something like "I'm currently out of fives..."
or something.

But hey, at least she brought back the change and didn't do what
I absolutely hate - I totally despise the ones that say "Do you
want me to bring back your change?"!! AARRGGHH!

Cyndi
<Remove a "b" to reply>

Rick & Cyndi wrote:
> "Frogleg" > wrote in message
> ...
> : On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 14:25:49 +1000, Craig Welch
> >
> : wrote:
> :
> : >On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:54:18 -0500, Gar <> wrote:
> : >
> : >>Some people just like to hate the fact they should tip in the
> US.
> : >>Cheap people are annoying. But 2-5's and 4-singles would
> have handled
> : >>any amount up to 14 bucks. I visit a local place a couple
> times a
> : >>week. I socialize, eat, drink, and have short business
> meetings
> : >>there. 14 bucks is not an unreasonable tip for a 65 dollar
> bill. If
> : >>you had even a touch of class you'd have said "it's even"
> : >
> : >So the tip doesn't have to have any relationship with the
> quality of
> : >the service, it has to do with some vague notion of 'class'?
> :
> : As has been discussed here many times and at great length,
> tipping is
> : a very peculiar institution. Waitstaff (legally) usually
> receives
> : sub-minimum wage from their employer. The traditional
> assumption is
> : that tips will make up the difference. That is, at least 10% of
> each
> : check is supposed to be a voluntary contribution to the
> worker's basic
> : wage. And you see $15 as the price of a menu item, not $16.50
> or
> : $18.00. To many, a 'tip' is payment/encouragement for
> extraordinary
> : service and attention. Or, sometimes, a fee they're not legally
> : obligated to pay for service of any kind.
> :
> : It's not particularly classy to overtip IMHO (although it makes
> many
> : servers happy), but is *certainly* classier than under-tipping.
> $14
> : for a $65 tab is about 21% -- not an outrageous overpayment.
> However,
> : it's no crime to figure $9.75-$10 is adequate and pocket the
> other $4.
> ==========
>
> Huh. Well maybe I interpreted something different from the
> original post... What I gathered was not that the poster had a
> problem with tipping but the fact that the server brought back
> *fourteen* ones - and no explanation about why. Even if the
> server thought she was doing them and herself a favor - she could
> have at least said something like "I'm currently out of fives..."
> or something.
>
> But hey, at least she brought back the change and didn't do what
> I absolutely hate - I totally despise the ones that say "Do you
> want me to bring back your change?"!! AARRGGHH!
>
> Cyndi
> <Remove a "b" to reply>
>
>

To that I would just reply "if you want to receive your tip, yes!" ; )

--
"..A census taker once tried to test me. I ate his liver with some fava
beans and a nice chianti..."

Hannibal "The Cannibal"

Silence Of The Lambs 1991

"Rick & Cyndi" > wrote in message
news:xlfjb.776611$YN5.760497@sccrnsc01...
> "Frogleg" > wrote in message
> ...
> : On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 14:25:49 +1000, Craig Welch
> >
> : wrote:
> :
> : >On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:54:18 -0500, Gar <> wrote:
> : >
> : >>Some people just like to hate the fact they should tip in the
> US.
> : >>Cheap people are annoying. But 2-5's and 4-singles would
> have handled
> : >>any amount up to 14 bucks. I visit a local place a couple
> times a
> : >>week. I socialize, eat, drink, and have short business
> meetings
> : >>there. 14 bucks is not an unreasonable tip for a 65 dollar
> bill. If
> : >>you had even a touch of class you'd have said "it's even"
> : >
> : >So the tip doesn't have to have any relationship with the
> quality of
> : >the service, it has to do with some vague notion of 'class'?
> :
> : As has been discussed here many times and at great length,
> tipping is
> : a very peculiar institution. Waitstaff (legally) usually
> receives
> : sub-minimum wage from their employer. The traditional
> assumption is
> : that tips will make up the difference. That is, at least 10% of
> each
> : check is supposed to be a voluntary contribution to the
> worker's basic
> : wage. And you see $15 as the price of a menu item, not $16.50
> or
> : $18.00. To many, a 'tip' is payment/encouragement for
> extraordinary
> : service and attention. Or, sometimes, a fee they're not legally
> : obligated to pay for service of any kind.
> :
> : It's not particularly classy to overtip IMHO (although it makes
> many
> : servers happy), but is *certainly* classier than under-tipping.
> $14
> : for a $65 tab is about 21% -- not an outrageous overpayment.
> However,
> : it's no crime to figure $9.75-$10 is adequate and pocket the
> other $4.
> ==========
>
> Huh. Well maybe I interpreted something different from the
> original post... What I gathered was not that the poster had a
> problem with tipping but the fact that the server brought back
> *fourteen* ones - and no explanation about why. Even if the
> server thought she was doing them and herself a favor - she could
> have at least said something like "I'm currently out of fives..."
> or something.
>
> But hey, at least she brought back the change and didn't do what
> I absolutely hate - I totally despise the ones that say "Do you
> want me to bring back your change?"!! AARRGGHH!

That happened to me once when I went to a resturaunt and had a 100.00 bill
and a 40.00 tab. I kid you not! I would like to think that the wait person
just didn't look what was inside and was in a hurry.

And you are right. It wasn't the amount of the tip. It was the
not-so-subtle hint. I have never left a resturaunt without leaving a tip
unless my experience was truly horrible and the result of the individual
server.


>
> Cyndi
> <Remove a "b" to reply>
>
>

On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 13:20:44 -0500, "Julianne" >
wrote:

>
>"Rick & Cyndi" > wrote
>> But hey, at least she brought back the change and didn't do what
>> I absolutely hate - I totally despise the ones that say "Do you
>> want me to bring back your change?"!! AARRGGHH!
>
>That happened to me once when I went to a resturaunt and had a 100.00 bill
>and a 40.00 tab. I kid you not! I would like to think that the wait person
>just didn't look what was inside and was in a hurry.

That *is* the kindest interpretation to put on it. However, I agree
that it is the diner's choice to say "keep the change," not the
server's to suggest this option.
>
>And you are right. It wasn't the amount of the tip. It was the
>not-so-subtle hint. I have never left a resturaunt without leaving a tip
>unless my experience was truly horrible and the result of the individual
>server.

Unfortunately, some people *don't* tip, whether from genuine oversight
or some personal notion of 'economy.' Ask anyone who's worked where
two-fer coupons are used, or where a family of 5 comes for a Friday
Night Special because they can just barely afford a restaurant meal
this way. Not that asking "should I bring change?" will have any
effect except a negative one.

The reverse, sometimes, happens, too. A poor friend of mine paid for a
$2 burger with a $5 bill at a drive-in, and told the car-hop to "keep
the change," by which she meant the coins. She got a 'thank you' and a
big smile as the bills and coins were pocketed, and was too
embarrassed to explain what she meant.

"Dog3" > wrote in message
3...
> sf > deliciously posted in
> :
>
> > On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 22:27:24 GMT, Richard Periut
> > > wrote:
> >
> >
> >> And the question is not trivial. He/She is making sure he/she gives
> >> you A1 service, so that you can be satisfied and tip he/she good.
> >>
> > If the wait staff really cared about our well being, they
> > would keep our water glases filled at the very least. In my
> > experience, an abrupt "Is everything Okay?" is their way of
> > making up for ignoring us... which may or may not be their
> > fault.
>
> It's called a check back in some houses. After the main course is served,
> waiters ordinarily check back within a few minutes to see if all is well.
> If the wait staff did not check back, and you sat there with something you
> did not order or something not cooked to your satisfaction, would you not
> be just as irritated if the waiter did not check back if you could not
> catch his/her eye? It is standard procedure.

>>>>>>>>SNIPTHEREST<<<<<<<<<<<<<

At The Club (where I used to work as the only waitperson in a room with 36
seats), we called it "The Two Bite Rule". It went like this:

Serve the food (only after making sure what was on the plate was indeed what
was ordered by the diner). While you are at the table, check for additional
requirements, such as another drink, additional condiments, fresh napkins,
etc. Then leave the table and stay gone long enough for the customer to cut
his steak and take a couple of bites. Then go back and BE SPECIFIC: How is
your steak, sir? Or Would you care for more butter for your lobster? NOT "Is
everything ok?" Then, before leaving the table after fulfilling any
requests, STAY AWAY and don't bug them while they eat. If you are organized
and aware, you will pay attention to your tables and KNOW when their glass
gets low, or their plates need removed. And believe me, if they need
something, they'll make eye contact. When they are done, you will know it.
Then you can present the check. When you pick up the check and the payment,
if change or credit card slip is required, you have SEVEN MINUTES to
complete that transaction and return it to the table. It's not rocket
science. It's service, and common courtesy.

These rules applied at The Club, which was more upscale, and (aside from
table cashout which we don't do) will also apply at our new place (owned by
US!!!), definitely not upscale. It's all about being aware and paying
attention. Unfortunately, so few restaurants truly train their waitstaff.
Most are given a pad, a look over the menu, a tour of the BOH, and maybe a
walk through with an experienced waitperson, then turned loose to wait
tables. That's unfair to employee and customer.

Miss Jean, who is militant about service.

I have not had a cigarette in Six months, one week,
four days, 20 hours, 47 minutes and 41 seconds.
That's 3897 cigarettes not smoked, saving $397.44
to pour back into my dreams.

The world's longest snake is the Python... I'm guessig they mean two eyed
snakes...

Ahahahahahahahahahaha. . . .


---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
Sheldon
````````````
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."

Miss Jean wrote:
>Then leave the table and stay gone long enough for the customer to cut
>his steak and take a couple of bites. Then go back and BE SPECIFIC: How is
>your steak, sir? Or Would you care for more butter for your lobster?

Does anyone else dislike this as much as me?

Yeah, maybe I could get you to take the steak back and cook me another
one, in the process screwing up the eating experience with the other
people at the table. But two bites isn't anywhere near enough time for
me to judge the rest of the dish, and just about all comments about
the food won't be resolvable anyway. ("I'd have liked a touch less
thyme." "Could you make this again with a more flavourful variety of
tomato please?") Also, two bites into the food is always in the middle
of an interesting conversation with the other people at the table.

If I have any complaints, I'll sure as anything attract the staff's
attention.

--
Lucian

Miss Jean wrote:

> At The Club (where I used to work as the only waitperson in a room
> with 36 seats), we called it "The Two Bite Rule". It went like this:
>
> Serve the food (only after making sure what was on the plate was
> indeed what was ordered by the diner). While you are at the table,
> check for additional requirements, such as another drink, additional
> condiments, fresh napkins, etc. Then leave the table and stay gone
> long enough for the customer to cut his steak and take a couple of
> bites. Then go back and BE SPECIFIC: How is your steak, sir? Or Would
> you care for more butter for your lobster? NOT "Is everything ok?"


That would shit me to tears, quite frankly.

I like my waiters to be intuititive, not checking off questions by rote the
moment I bite down.


--
Gold ODDY Winner, 2002

Lucian Wischik wrote:
> Miss Jean wrote:

>> Then leave the table and stay gone long enough for the customer to
>> cut his steak and take a couple of bites. Then go back and BE
>> SPECIFIC: How is your steak, sir? Or Would you care for more butter
>> for your lobster?
>
> Does anyone else dislike this as much as me?

yes, me.


> Yeah, maybe I could get you to take the steak back and cook me another
> one, in the process screwing up the eating experience with the other
> people at the table. But two bites isn't anywhere near enough time for
> me to judge the rest of the dish, and just about all comments about
> the food won't be resolvable anyway. ("I'd have liked a touch less
> thyme." "Could you make this again with a more flavourful variety of
> tomato please?") Also, two bites into the food is always in the middle
> of an interesting conversation with the other people at the table.

thankyou !


> If I have any complaints, I'll sure as anything attract the staff's
> attention.


ditto.

--
Gold ODDY Winner, 2002

"lea" > wrote in message
...
> Lucian Wischik wrote:
> > Miss Jean wrote:
>
> >> Then leave the table and stay gone long enough for the customer to
> >> cut his steak and take a couple of bites. Then go back and BE
> >> SPECIFIC: How is your steak, sir? Or Would you care for more butter for
your lobster?

> > Does anyone else dislike this as much as me?

> yes, me.

I personally hate it when the server comes back to the table after I have
started eating and asks me how everything is. I usually have a mouthful of
food or am engaged in fun conversation with my husband. The server's
interruption sidetracks everything.

Once I start to eat I DON"T WANT TO BE BOTHERED.

I have been thinking about making a small card that I can hand to the
serving staff. The card would say "Thank you for taking my order. I would
appreciate it when my order has been served that you do not came back to the
table to ask me how things are. If I want something I will signal for you.
No signal means things are fine. I want to enjoy my dinner and conversation
with my husband without being interrupted. Again thank you for your
service."

NitroFishBlue wrote:
>I personally hate it when the server comes back to the table after I have
>started eating and asks me how everything is.

I guess it depends what kind of a service the place thinks it
provides.

In Italy I go to a small osteria, maybe in the city, maybe in the
countryside. They make a particular kind of dish in a particular kind
of way, it's what they do, and they do it well. You have gone there
because you want to sample it. They don't ask if everything's all
right, and you don't complain, because that'd be like going to a
vineyard and then saying that you'd prefer them to give you oranges
not grapes.

Instead, in my favourite higher-end places in the UK the creator of
the meal is an expert at knowing what's nice. The idea is that you go
there, you surrender yourself into their hands and eat what they've
chosen. You've gone to this particular place because you have trust in
them, and because they're more expert at this than you -- more able to
pick out flavours, tastes, ideas that will please and intrigue you.
Maybe they make mistakes (garlic icecream!) but that's the adventure.


On the other hand, if a place thinks it can offer unique food
customized to the preferences of each patron, and if it asks each
patron if their dish meets their preferences -- I simply don't believe
that such a flexible place does its stuff as well as the inflexible
specialised places. (At least, not without an enormous price
increase).

I also get the impression that american consumers are more keen to
have things how they want, while italian and english consumers are
more willing to accept what's given. So it's not a surprise to me to
get more "Is everything ok?"s in america than in europe.

--
Lucian

"lea" > wrote in message
...
: Miss Jean wrote:
:
: > At The Club (where I used to work as the only waitperson in a
room
: > with 36 seats), we called it "The Two Bite Rule". It went
like this:
: >
: > Serve the food (only after making sure what was on the plate
was
: > indeed what was ordered by the diner). While you are at the
table,
: > check for additional requirements, such as another drink,
additional
: > condiments, fresh napkins, etc. Then leave the table and stay
gone
: > long enough for the customer to cut his steak and take a
couple of
: > bites. Then go back and BE SPECIFIC: How is your steak, sir?
Or Would
: > you care for more butter for your lobster? NOT "Is everything
ok?"
:
:
: That would shit me to tears, quite frankly.
:
: I like my waiters to be intuititive, not checking off questions
by rote the
: moment I bite down.
:
:
: --
: Gold ODDY Winner, 2002
:========

Yes and no... While I may not be able to judge the entire meal
within 2 bites - at least I won't be sitting there for the next
20 minutes with a steak that is overcooked that I won't eat
(which I would have determined the first time I cut into).

Cyndi
<Remove a "b" to reply>

Cyndi"

<snip>:
: Yes and no... While I may not be able to judge the entire meal
: within 2 bites
<snip>

Sorry... replied to the wrong one. Aarrgghh! (still remembering
Pirate Day)
Cyndi
<Remove a "b" to reply>

Count me as one who doesn't like the practice. As far as I'm concerned,
the food is either fine or it needs to be sent back to the kitchen as
not fine. Unless I expect the server or manager to do something to fix
the problem, I don't want to talk about it. (The meal has to be truly
horrendously inedible for me to complain.) (No, that's not true. I'll
complain to you guys but not the servers.) If servers ask me if I'd
like more butter for the lobster, I get the feeling that they're fishing
for compliments. If they think I might need more, why not go get it and
stop bothering me?

--Lia


Lucian Wischik wrote:
> Miss Jean wrote:
>
>>Then leave the table and stay gone long enough for the customer to cut
>>his steak and take a couple of bites. Then go back and BE SPECIFIC: How is
>>your steak, sir? Or Would you care for more butter for your lobster?
>
>
> Does anyone else dislike this as much as me?

In article >, Lucian Wischik
> wrote:


> Yeah, maybe I could get you to take the steak back and cook me another
> one, in the process screwing up the eating experience with the other
> people at the table. But two bites isn't anywhere near enough time for
> me to judge the rest of the dish, and just about all comments about
> the food won't be resolvable anyway. ("I'd have liked a touch less
> thyme."


Obviously, they aren't going to change the amount of thyme in your food.
However, if they get enough complaints, they may decrease the amount of
thyme used in that dish. But they really aren't trying to find out how
well you liked the meal. They are seeking to correct gross errors which
would have a major effect on the enjoyment of your meal. If your steak
was cooked very differently than you ordered, you want that fixed right
now, not after you are done eating. Same thing if they brought the wrong
item, like if you have a choice between fries and a baked potato, you
probably want that fixed before you are finished.



> If I have any complaints, I'll sure as anything attract the staff's
> attention.


And I'd rather that they come by and make sure everything is OK.

--
Dan Abel
Sonoma State University
AIS

Lucian Wischik wrote:

> If I have any complaints, I'll sure as anything attract the staff's
> attention.

That's what I said, if the server doesn't vanish, but moves around
the floor keeping an eye out, I will catch their eye if everything
is not okay. If I'm not looking around for them, everything is
fine. Also, keep an eye on my drink, I hate being stranded trying
to get someone to bring me another iced tea or wine. That's a
pet peeve of mine, being left high and dry like that. Wouldn't
happen if the server didn't disappear into the server black hole
that most restaurants seem to have.

nancy

I went out to dinner with a friend tonight and the waiter was a total jerk. We
were sitting in the smoking section, and my friend asked for an ash tray, and
the waiter just threw it on the table. We ordered salads which arrived with our
entrees, not before, and our drinks arrived about 5 min after that. When I
asked for a refill of my ice tea, the waiter reached across the table and
poured it, or more acurately-dumped it into my glass, while tea sloshed down
the side of the pitcher into my plate of food. And when I said "You just poured
tea all over my food!" he said "I'll go get you some napkins." Then disappeared
for 15 min. Then he came back-without napkins or a fresh plate of food. He
slapped our bill down on the table and stomped off. For the first time ever, I
did not leave a tip. As we were leaving the hostess asked how our dinner was
and I told her that the food was ok, but the service was horrible, and doubted
we would ever be back. The thing is, before we went to the restaurant I was in
a great friday night mood, and that waiter just ruined my night.

Sandra