sf wrote:
> That's a practice called "up selling" if you didn't know the
> term already. It's done in all retail situations... that's
> why sales people push accessories when women buy shoes and
> if you try to buy lipstick, they show you eye shadow and
> blush - for men, that's why you don't end up with just the
> basic car you set out to buy.


I was familiar with the practice, not the term. It is another one of my
peeves. They may make the extra sale to a number of people who fall for
it, but for someone like me, I get so annoyed that I don't go back.

The waitress comes to the table and asks if I'd like a beverage. I
answer that I just want water with no ice. She asks if I wouldn't like
some ice tea or some lemonade. I answer that no, I'd really like water
with no ice.

Returning with the water, she asks if I'd like to order. I tell her the
entree I'd like. She asks if I'd like appetizers. I say no; I'd like
the entree I ordered. It goes on like that. No matter what I say I'd
like, she contradicts me by asking if I wouldn't like something else. I
say I'm ready for the bill. She asks if I'd like dessert. Then I have
to say that no, I wouldn't like dessert; I'd like the bill. By the time
I leave, I feel like I've been in an argument with someone who insisted
that I repeat everything 3 times before she'll believe me.

Not in restaurants, but in other retail situations, upselling loses
sales. I'll tell the salesclerk what I'm looking for. If they try to
sell me something else, I'll explain again what I'm looking for once or
twice more, but then I get impatient and give up.

I realize it is a business situation, but imagine it socially. Your
friend asks if you'd like to see a movie. You answer no. He says "are
you sure?" You answer that yes, you're sure, you don't want to go. A
minute passes, and he asks if you'd like to see a different movie. You
say no. Again he asks if you're sure. Again you say that you're sure.
Then he asks again. And again. It may sound like he's merely asking
an innocent question, but he's arguing. That's the sort of thing that
makes me lose my temper.

--Lia

On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:09:43 -0500, Melba's Jammin'
> wrote:
>
>On topically:
>
>{ Masterfully and Mystically Exported from MasterCook Mac }
>
>Doubletree Hotel Chocolate Chip Cookies
>
>Recipe By: somebody named Todd Wilbur
>Serving Size: 1
>Preparation Time: 0:00
>Categories: Cookies
>
>Amount Measure Ingredient Preparation Method
>1/2 cup rolled oats
>2 1/4 cups all-purpose flour
>1 1/2 teaspoons baking soda
>1 teaspoon salt
>1/4 teaspoon cinnamon
>1 cup butter softened
>3/4 cup packed brown sugar
>3/4 cup sugar
>1 1/2 teaspoons vanilla
>1/2 teaspoon lemon juice
>2 eggs
>3 cups semi-sweet chocolate chips
>1 1/2 cups chopped walnuts
>
>Preheat oven to 350 degrees.
>
>Grind oats in a food processor or blender until fine. Combine the
>ground oats with the flour, baking soda, salt, and cinnamon in a medium
>bowl.
>
>Cream together the butter, sugars, vanilla, and lemon juice in
>another medium bowl with an electric mixer. Add the eggs and mix until
>smooth.
>
>Stir the dry mixture into the wet mixture and blend well. Add
>the chocolate chips and nuts to the dough and mix by hand until
>ingredients are well incorporated.
>
>Spoon rounded 1/4-cup portions onto an ungreased cookie sheet. Place the
>scoops about 2 inches apart. You don't need to press the dough flat.
>
>Bake for 16 to 18 minutes or until cookies are light brown and soft in
>the middle.
>
>Store in a sealed container when cool to keep soft.
>
>For the best results, chill the dough overnight in the refrigerator
>before baking the cookies.

Oooooo...thanks for this recipe!! I LOVE Doubletree chocolate chip
cookies! (Used to work right across the street from the Galleria
Doubletree in Houston. We'd walk over and snatch some for an afternoon
pick-me-up.)

On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 06:17:52 -0500, Melba's Jammin'
> wrote:

>In article > , Dog3
> wrote:
>(snip)
>> Now, what bothers me in some upscale restaurants here is the
>> suffocation of perfect service. A few months ago I went to an
>> acclaimed restaurant in St. Louis which my family has frequented for
>> years. I swear, if I even look like I'm pulling out a cigarette a
>> waiter shows up with a lighter to light it.
>
>You smoke? I'll bet your cardiologist loves that. "-)
>Story: Nice restaurant in Denver -- Le Profil -- waiters were standing
>around (not physically hovering and it must have been a not very busy
>evening), and every time I put my fork down, ours made a move to remove
>my plate. It made me nervous.

I hate that. I hate being afraid to put my fork down, for fear the
server will snatch up my plate as soon as I do. (Yeah, the server
usually asks whether or not I'm done before removing the plate, but
it's just annoying. It's nice when the server waits a few minutes to
see whether or not I'm really done before asking/removing.)

On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 05:24:43 GMT, Dog3
> wrote:

> It's called a check back in some houses. After the main course is served,
> waiters ordinarily check back within a few minutes to see if all is well.
> If the wait staff did not check back, and you sat there with something you
> did not order or something not cooked to your satisfaction, would you not
> be just as irritated if the waiter did not check back if you could not
> catch his/her eye? It is standard procedure.

Here is where we split hairs. If someone gets the wrong
order, I think they should say so when it's put in front of
them... WHY WAIT (???) until a waiter comes around to ask if
everything is "okay"?
>
> Now, what bothers me in some upscale restaurants here is the suffocation of
> perfect service. A few months ago I went to an acclaimed restaurant in St.
> Louis which my family has frequented for years. I swear, if I even look
> like I'm pulling out a cigarette a waiter shows up with a lighter to light
> it.
>
That would suit me just fine... except no one I know smokes.
If fact, if I look like I'm going to sneeze - if they gave
me a tissue, they get a BIG tip.
>
> > Perhaps management gave them too many tables to be
> > responsible for and not enough back up staff to keep the
> > customers, like me, happy.
>
> It is impossible to please every diner, all of the time. I am a firm
> believer that when dining out, I can make it pleasant and enjoyable. If
> the service is miserable, I complain to management and save on the 20-25%
> tip I ordinarily leave.
>

I don't complain about less than stellar service (unless
it's absolutely abysmal), but my tip is only 15%... not the
usual 20% for normal service or 25% for excellent service.

I'm not rich enough to leave tips larger than the bill to
wait staff that make a good impression on me.

On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 09:00:57 -0400, Nancy Young
> wrote:

> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>
> > Story: Nice restaurant in Denver -- Le Profil -- waiters were standing
> > around (not physically hovering and it must have been a not very busy
> > evening), and every time I put my fork down, ours made a move to remove
> > my plate. It made me nervous.
>
> (laugh) I took my ex inlaws out to a fancy restaurant that had a
> smorgasbord (sp) every Friday night. Well, you never saw the waiters,
> but every time you went back up for more food, you'd come back to
> a clean, perfectly set table, with your linen napkin folded into
> some fancy shape. Finally my conservative mil pipes up, I think the
> waiter has a napkin fetish. I almost fell off my chair laughing.
>
> It was kinda weird like you were being stalked, like you were under
> scrutiny. No, I am so not complaining, that's good service.
>
For a smorgasbord, that was first class service!

What I would espect is the normal Las Vegas/Reno style
"buffet" service of removing your "used" plate off the table
when you leave to get another helping of food. It's a big
"faux pas" to take your dirty plate back to the cafeteria
line to load it up.

On 07 Oct 2003 08:11:25 -0500, Richard Kaszeta
> wrote:
>
> I had a hotel experience like that once, in that the room service was
> very fast, very good, and very opportunistic... you wouldn't see them,
> and they wouldn't knock on your door, but if you stepped out for as
> little as five minutes (literally, I went to go grab a newspaper over
> in the lobby), you'd come back to a room with fresh linens, a clean
> and dry bathroom, vacuumed carpet, etc. A perfectly clean room.
> Indeed, the first time it happened, I thought I had come back to the
> wrong room, but there was my stuff, exactly where I left it[1]. I'm
> still not sure how they pulled that off. I was tempted one morning to
> do a setup to watch them work, but had other obligations.
>
> This was in a resort hotel in Jackson Hole, WY. They got a good tip.

Sounds like a good experience on ship! I'd be a good tipper
too if I had that experience.

Jackson Hole is a place I've literally passed through
once... saying "this is a place I want to visit again"
because it looked like a setting from an old Western Movie.
I don't know what it looks like now, but it had the raised
sidewalks.... really! They had to be at least 3 feet off
the ground.

Anyway... with the quaintness of Jackson HOLE and the beauty
of the Grand Tetons (big tits) - you get the one place on
earth that was made directly under God's supervision.

<S>
>

On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:09:43 -0500, Melba's Jammin'
> wrote
>
> Drifting sideways from the original post here, Rich: I stayed in a
> hotel and when I returned to my cleaned room, I wasn't 100% sure it had
> been cleaned. I asked at the desk and was told that if I'd left any
> personal items (clothing) about, they would work around it and would not
> touch my personal things. I think I'd left something on the bed.
> Shoot, it was okay with me if they folded my clothes. :-)
>

Drifting your way... a few year ago, I was put up in a
sub-standard motel while I went through some training for a
non-public program a few years ago. There were no other
rooms available elsewhere because they had people
everywhere, so I didn't thing they were being cheap. The
service was wonderful - considering we were put up in the
armpit of motel row. However, one morning I was late
getting going, so I accidentally left my white nightgown on
the white bed sheets instead of hanging it up on the
bathroom door-hook, as was my practice.

I came back to a perfect room and - NO NIGHTGOWN!!!

Needless to say, I was upset. Not only was it VERY
expensive, it was an anniversary gift from my husband.

I registered my "problem" with the front desk.

Although no guarantees were made, it turned out that the
office staff went through the laundry BY HAND and found my
nightgown. They had it laundered, then packaged it up and
sent to me. I should have expressed my gratitude in
writing, but sadly... I didn't. Mea Culpa! Let everyone be
warned.... do that one little thing for people who actually
give you customer SERVICE. Someone screwed up? At the very
least, give the people who made it right some
acknowledgement.

I didn't and I'm eternally sorry.

There was a mistake, they took care of it and I didn't put
my gratitude in writing (which I should have done). I
called them and said "thanks", but a written message would
have been 100% better because it would have ultimately
contributed to a merit raise or better.

Good customer service needs to be acknowledged in writing!

<Rant Off>

On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 16:32:50 GMT,
(j*ni p.) wrote:


> http://www.ruthschris.com/
>
> I didn't get all that excited about the food (they cut their filets
> too thick, IMHO),

NO WAY!!! Can you see my fingers in front of my face
forming a cross? Hasn't anyone told you that the best steak
is one where the cow has just stopped kicking?

> but the wait staff was top notch. When they weren't
> actively waiting a table, they were watching the dining area, looking
> for someone who might need something. I loved having my water refilled
> repeatedly without having to ask.

That is one thing that impresses me, but it has to be
INVISIBLE. If I'm talking, the glass is refilled and I'm
not interrupted.


> Though I guess the "plate removal"
> thing Barb mentioned would get annoying after a while. I'd probably
> start teasing the waiter -- you know, almost put the fork down, but
> not quite; put it down them pick it up as soon as he walked over. No
> wonder Dad says I'm evil... ;-)

I don't call it evil. It's either a sign you're not engaged
in your conversation and purposefully annoying someone who
is making minimum wage on purpose or else the staff isn't
very well enough trained to serve you discretely.

On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 03:39:41 GMT, Julia Altshuler
> wrote:

> sf wrote:
> > That's a practice called "up selling" if you didn't know the
> > term already. It's done in all retail situations... that's
> > why sales people push accessories when women buy shoes and
> > if you try to buy lipstick, they show you eye shadow and
> > blush - for men, that's why you don't end up with just the
> > basic car you set out to buy.
>
>
> I was familiar with the practice, not the term.

<snip>
>
> I realize it is a business situation, but imagine it socially.

Unfortunately, that's what's expected from the staff that
annoys you... it's all in the "training". That sort of
thing isn't natural for most people and that's why it annoys
us instead of making us say "yes".

On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 05:35:38 GMT, Hahabogus
> wrote:

> sf > wrote in
> :
>
>
> I like doing the dance especially the part where you yell WAITER or SERVICE
> real loud. Ensures good service for the rest of the meal.

LOL! it SHOULD, if only by default.

On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 05:25:40 GMT, Dog3
> wrote:

>
> Never have I had to do a "chicken dance" (whatever that is)

Oh, Doggie... have you NEVER been on a cruise? If not, then
of course you don't have a clue.

FYI: It's just another way of making yourself feel totally
stupid.

On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 13:35:45 GMT, "Peter Aitken"
> wrote:

>
> "Social interaction with waitstaff?" Are you joking? I most certainly do
> *not* want any social interaction with them - rather I want a professional
> waiter-diner interaction. The idea of interacting socially with the waiter
> reminds me of the places were he will sit or crouch at your table, tell you
> his name, and get all pally. Pul-lease!
>
> If a waiter wants to check up on you there's no need to interrupt. All he
> needs to do is come over and stand expectantly where he can be seen, saying
> nothing. The diners can ignore him and continue with the conversation or
> not, as they choose.

LOL!

I'd say "DITTO", but it's not socially acceptable here on
RFC.

Good story that illustrates a poorly trained, poorly paid
staff that doesn't expect anything from their customers
other than pure grief.

I doubt the restaurant in your story will last very long....
if it does, it's part of a reataurant chain so others are
propping it up.

````````````````````````````

On 07 Oct 2003 07:20:53 GMT, ittens
(Greykits) wrote:
> >
> We had a similar sort of experience today. It was a nice fall day and we
> wanted to go out for drinks on the patio of a place we have gone to for years.
> This is just a burger joint, but they play only classical music and their
> burgers get high ratings by reviewers every year, it seems (Denver isn't the
> burger town, for sure). As we ordered our last drink we asked for our bill.
> When the drink (we split a last beer) arrived, so did the bill, so I put out a
> twenty and the waitress said she'd be back with change. She never came back,
> although we saw other waiters going to and fro. We thought the shift had
> changed or something. I said we should just go inside to the bar on our way
> out and ask for our change. My husband said he'd go inside and take care of
> it. He came back to the patio after 10 or so minutes. Our waitress had been
> sitting at the bar talking to a friend or someone, and apparently two other men
> were in line before my husband with some sort of similar complaint. Then we
> had to wait another 10 minutes for our waitress to return with our change. She
> gave us an abrupt apology and was off. We usually tip 20% even for drinks
> alone, but I left one dollar, which was less than 10%.
>
> We will go back there as we just like the place and usually have no problem
> with service.
>
> Yeah, Mr. Schidt, I'm sure you've been there before.
>
> rharps.com

On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 06:07:26 GMT, Dog3
> wrote:

>
> Unless the neighboring table is extremely intrusive, I rarely notice them.

You must be partially deff in that case. I can hear
conversations from tables FAR away, Of course, that isn't
in a restaurant with a "bomb" rating for noise. For
those... it seems I can hear the next table just fine, but I
can't follow what's being said at my table.

> I'm much more interested in the food and the companionship of the people at
> the table I am sitting at.

Good for you.

> I tend to tune out the background noise except
> for pagers and cell phones.

That's a problem of the past where I live.

> I think all electronic devices (the exception
> being lifesaving electronics) should be confiscated at the door of all
> restaurants. I witnessed a woman on a cell phone pacing up and down the
> aisle at a very nice restaurant one evening. I noticed her because she
> knocked the candle over on my table with an armswing as she was shouting at
> her assistant. Management hauled her out, cell phone stuck in her ear.
> I've heard she's banned for life.
>
Again, that sort of thing is totally passe around here.

On Mon, 6 Oct 2003 10:08:33 -0400, "K3" >
wrote:

>No... Don't complain to management... speak to your waiter/waitress... as a
>him/her... like as if they're like you and me...
>
>Ever heard the words "CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM" ???

Yes. It's related to "do you mind if I'm frank?" which means that
someone is going to say something nasty "for your own good" and think
they can get away without being labeled an interferring fussbudget.

"Constructive" criticism is properly delivered by a one's parents or
employers. Mentioning politely that one doesn't need constant
table-checks isn't criticism, but information. "Don't you realize
you're driving us nuts with your constant 'is everything all right?'"
is criticism that will get you a label as an (expletive deleted).

On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 15:40:46 GMT, "Peter Aitken"
> wrote:

>"K3" > wrote
>> No... Don't complain to management... speak to your waiter/waitress...
>>
>> Ever heard the words "CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM" ???
>>
>> With you being one who has experience in the hospitality field, *share*
>your
>> experience with others that serve you like you serve others...
>>
>> I HATE TATTLE-TALES!!!!!
>
>There's no "tattling" involved. It's the job of management to supervise the
>wait staff, and it is perfectly proper to complain about a server to
>management. It is not the customer's job to train or supervise the wait
>staff. If complaints all went directly to the waiter, the management would
>have no way to know who was screwing up and ****ing off the customers on a
>regular basis.

Nicely put. Particularly the "...not customer's job..." All this talk
about what the server should do, and not much about what kind of
customers (other than our perfect selves) the average waitstaff
encounters. People on both sides of the order pad can be, um, a bit
peculiar. Mostly, the good situations outweigh the bad (or there'd be
no customers OR servers). And some bad experiences make up value in
anecdotal material. Like the waiter in a fairly upscale (or at least
expensive) restaurant who looked like a relative of the Addams Family
and removed my unfinished plate while my fork was at my lips. This has
provided endless amusement on the part of my dining companion who
found my expression unique. C'est la ball bounce.

On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 21:39:09 -0500, MareCat
> wrote:

>On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 14:02:23 -0400, Nancy Young
> wrote:

>>I seriously don't want to go stand someplace and place my order and
>>be given a number. That doesn't fly with me. It's not a place
>>I would frequent.

>That type of restaurant is becoming more and more popular in my area.
>One version is to stand in line, place your order, pay, then someone
>brings your food out to you (or in some places, you go retrieve your
>food).
>
>Another version is to stand in line, place your order, get a slip with
>your printed order on it for you to take to your table, then hand that
>slip to a server, who then brings your food out to you (and handles
>anything else you might order, like additional drinks, desserts,
>etc.). When you're finished with your meal, the server brings you a
>check, and you pay the server.

And leave a tip, I hope. :-) I haven't investigated, but it's quite
possible that all-you-can-eat buffets and take-a-number establishments
pay the same sub-minimum wage to those who bring the drinks and clear
the table as waitstaff in 'regular' restaurants enjoy.

sf wrote:
>
> On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 09:00:57 -0400, Nancy Young

> > (laugh) I took my ex inlaws out to a fancy restaurant that had a
> > smorgasbord (sp) every Friday night. Well, you never saw the waiters,
> > but every time you went back up for more food, you'd come back to
> > a clean, perfectly set table, with your linen napkin folded into
> > some fancy shape. Finally my conservative mil pipes up, I think the
> > waiter has a napkin fetish. I almost fell off my chair laughing.
> >
> > It was kinda weird like you were being stalked, like you were under
> > scrutiny. No, I am so not complaining, that's good service.
> >
> For a smorgasbord, that was first class service!

Yeah, I just went to the website to see if they had a picture of the
place, well, it's a complicated kinda website and my connection is
slow this morning ... http://www.shadowbrook.com ... anyway, I live
maybe 5 miles from there and yet, I don't think I've been there since
I moved here. I used to go all the time. Might be time for a visit.

> What I would espect is the normal Las Vegas/Reno style
> "buffet" service of removing your "used" plate off the table
> when you leave to get another helping of food. It's a big
> "faux pas" to take your dirty plate back to the cafeteria
> line to load it up.

Oh, definitely, your plates would vanish. No, I wouldn't think
walking around the restaurant with dirty dishes would be a plan.
Besides, I'd get salad, eat that, then get my meal, like why put
that food on a dirty plate? Wouldn't occur to me. Clean cutlery,
too.

nancy

"Nancy Young" > wrote in message
...
> Craig Welch wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:44:48 -0400, Nancy Young
> > > wrote:
> >
> > >> Apparently, the system in place at this restaurant was that if you
wanted
> > >> something you raised the statue upright - when the waiter had dealt
with
> > >> you, it was laid on its side again. So, it seems that some places
already
> > >> have the flag system, albeit in other forms <g>.
> > >
> > >Yeah, I just love dining in situations where you need to know the
> > >secret handshake. How do they expect people to know if you don't
> > >tell them?
> >
> > Did you miss the part where she said they were in a foreign country?
>
> Did you miss the part where that is a really stupid way to assume
> people know how to get attention?
>
> You really are dim, aren't you.

And a trivial nit-picker, as well. Sheesh!

On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 13:28:24 GMT, Frogleg > wrote:

>On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 21:39:09 -0500, MareCat
> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 14:02:23 -0400, Nancy Young
> wrote:
>
>>>I seriously don't want to go stand someplace and place my order and
>>>be given a number. That doesn't fly with me. It's not a place
>>>I would frequent.
>
>>That type of restaurant is becoming more and more popular in my area.
>>One version is to stand in line, place your order, pay, then someone
>>brings your food out to you (or in some places, you go retrieve your
>>food).
>>
>>Another version is to stand in line, place your order, get a slip with
>>your printed order on it for you to take to your table, then hand that
>>slip to a server, who then brings your food out to you (and handles
>>anything else you might order, like additional drinks, desserts,
>>etc.). When you're finished with your meal, the server brings you a
>>check, and you pay the server.
>
>And leave a tip, I hope. :-)

Of course. The waitstaff does everything they do in a more traditional
restaurant except take your initial order.

I haven't investigated, but it's quite
>possible that all-you-can-eat buffets and take-a-number establishments
>pay the same sub-minimum wage to those who bring the drinks and clear
>the table as waitstaff in 'regular' restaurants enjoy.

I'd be very surprised if the waitstaff at AYCE buffet and
take-a-number places were paid higher wages than at other places.
Regardless of the type of restaurant, I always tip when I receive good
(even adequate) service.

On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 06:09:00 GMT, sf > wrote:

>On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 05:25:40 GMT, Dog3
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Never have I had to do a "chicken dance" (whatever that is)
>
>Oh, Doggie... have you NEVER been on a cruise?

Or to a wedding reception in Pennsylvania? I don't think I've ever
been to a reception up there (mine included) that didn't include the
chicken dance.

In article >,
sf > wrote:
>On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 03:39:41 GMT, Julia Altshuler
> wrote:

[upselling]

>> I realize it is a business situation, but imagine it socially.
>
>Unfortunately, that's what's expected from the staff that
>annoys you... it's all in the "training". That sort of
>thing isn't natural for most people and that's why it annoys
>us instead of making us say "yes".

One place I worked kept everybody's check averages on a white-
board. Every month or so the names of those who were consis-
tently in the bottom 10% (one or two waitrons usually) were
erased -- that's how you knew it was time to drop off your apron
and pick up your final paycheck.

--
Mark Shaw contact info at homepage --> http://www.panix.com/~mshaw
================================================== ======================
"Love, friendship, respect, do not unite people as much
as a common hatred of something." - Chekhov

It seems to me in following these threads that almost everyone is
missing the point. Wait-staff are employed to serve the customer.
The customer may be difficult, grumpy, demanding - or a combination of
all three - but unless the customer is drunk, or otherwise "out of
it", then the customer has a right to receive good service.

It must be said, however, that the level of service would depend on
the type of restaurant. A very expensive fine-dining establishment
would be expected to have well-trained and discreet staff, who would
never interrupt diners' conversations, would never take a wrong order,
would be able to respond fully to questions about items on the menu -
and keep an eye on progress at the table he or she is serving.

Having said that, this sort of attention is not likely to be evident
at a lower-priced cafe or bistro eatery. But the same level of
politeness and professional serving should have been part of the
training.

Fine-dining gourmet restaurants in the USA are, in my experience when
visiting, as good as anywhere in the world, with service to match.

I don't expect the same level of attention when I am eating "on the
run" as it were, but I do expect courtesy and politeness.

TigsNona

On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 05:26:41 GMT, Dog3
> wrote:

> I don't think I have ever
> left a tip larger than the bill, unless of course I had too many martinis
> and could not count
>
Okay, Doggie... I think we've had a meeting of minds!

On 8 Oct 2003 15:15:52 -0400, (Mark
Shaw) wrote:

> In article >,
> sf > wrote:
> >On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 03:39:41 GMT, Julia Altshuler
> > wrote:
>
> [upselling]
>
> >> I realize it is a business situation, but imagine it socially.
> >
> >Unfortunately, that's what's expected from the staff that
> >annoys you... it's all in the "training". That sort of
> >thing isn't natural for most people and that's why it annoys
> >us instead of making us say "yes".
>
> One place I worked kept everybody's check averages on a white-
> board. Every month or so the names of those who were consis-
> tently in the bottom 10% (one or two waitrons usually) were
> erased -- that's how you knew it was time to drop off your apron
> and pick up your final paycheck.

Eeeew. That's too cold for words.

On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 05:36:18 GMT, Dog3
> wrote:

>
> LOL... If it's just another way of making yourself look stupid, I've done
> the "chicken dance" without realizing it.
>
Heh, the Chicken Dance is choreographed. Yes, you feel
totally stupid, but it's a fun stupid.

On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 05:38:31 GMT, Dog3
> wrote:

> Is *this* the chicken dance? http://www.funpages.com/chickendance.htm
>
LOL! The text gives pretty good instructions, but
you really have to see/do it in person to understand
how dumb/FUNNY it looks.

Dog3 wrote:

> See above. I would love to know what was done to curtail it. It is
> getting worse here. You can't even go to the doctors office without some
> clod disturbing you with a yappity cell call.

What is it with these people. Speak up, I don't think the guy in
aisle 10 can hear you. (laugh) Yesterday, I hear this voice, it's
so quiet around here usually that I looked out the side door to see
who was talking. There was a guy walking down the street on a cell
phone, if I tried I believe I could make out what he was talking
about. We're talking from, say, across 50 feet of lawn and! he was
on the other side of the street.

nancy

Nancy Young wrote:

> What is it with these people. Speak up, I don't think the guy in
> aisle 10 can hear you. (laugh) Yesterday, I hear this voice, it's
> so quiet around here usually that I looked out the side door to see
> who was talking. There was a guy walking down the street on a cell
> phone, if I tried I believe I could make out what he was talking
> about. We're talking from, say, across 50 feet of lawn and! he was
> on the other side of the street.
> nancy

What is with this phenomenon? Do we do that unknowingly on lanolin
phones too? It's the most annoying thing to be forced into
eavesdropping.. often stupid conversations at that!
Goomba

Dog3 wrote:
>
> sf > deliciously posted in

> > Here is where we split hairs. If someone gets the wrong
> > order, I think they should say so when it's put in front of
> > them... WHY WAIT (???) until a waiter comes around to ask if
> > everything is "okay"?

Agreed.

> I agree to a certain point. What amazes me is people that order the wrong
> thing thinking they have ordered something else. We used to dine out with
> a friend that did that constantly. Either that or he was disappointed with
> what was served and had to complain and send it back. It was so tedious to
> dine out with him, I refuse to go out with him. He is welcome in my home
> for dinner anytime but I'll not dine out with him.

I have a friend who used to be like that. I'd squirm in embarrassment
because of the way she addressed the waiter, and she ALWAYS had some
issue with the food or the service. I mean, every single time.
Hated eating out with her. She's far better now, she's on anti
depressent medication, and I'm not even trying to be funny, in case
anyone takes it that way. Much more relaxing having lunch with her
anymore.

> LOL... The restaurant is Tony's in St. Louis. My family has dined there
> off and on for decades. The food is incredible and the service is top
> notch but God I hate the suffocation of it all.

Yeah, I'm much more comfortable in less formal (to say the least)
restaurants.

> I'm a good tipper and the management/staff at the restaurants I am
> considered a 'regular' in, recognize my appreciation of the food and
> service.

Yeah, I'm a good tipper too, probably not as good as you are, but
they take care of me. One hand washes the other.

> I don't dine at a starred restaurant all that often. Most of my
> haunts are mom and pop houses with authentic cuisine. Gimme good Mexican
> or Tex Mex served on metal tables and I am happy. But don't get the wrong
> impression, I love to dress and dine as well. I don't think I have ever
> left a tip larger than the bill, unless of course I had too many martinis
> and could not count

(laughing) Too funny. Well ... this doesn't count, really, but I
have gone to this place in New Hampshire where a big breakfast was
like ... $2 ... it was ridiculous, and the waitresses had to run
around just as much as if it was dinner. I cannot leave a 15% tip
for that, I just can't. So for a 4, 5 dollar tab, yeah, I'd leave
about 100% tip.

Also at Christmas I'd leave an extra large tip at places where I was
a real regular and had a raport with the bartenders.

nancy

Goomba wrote:
>
> Nancy Young wrote:
>
> > What is it with these people. Speak up, I don't think the guy in
> > aisle 10 can hear you. (laugh) Yesterday, I hear this voice, it's
> > so quiet around here usually that I looked out the side door to see
> > who was talking. There was a guy walking down the street on a cell
> > phone, if I tried I believe I could make out what he was talking
> > about. We're talking from, say, across 50 feet of lawn and! he was
> > on the other side of the street.
> > nancy
>
> What is with this phenomenon? Do we do that unknowingly on lanolin
> phones too? It's the most annoying thing to be forced into
> eavesdropping.. often stupid conversations at that!

I forgot! AND he was still a house away. He had to be a good 80 ft
away. I don't know why people talk so loud on cell phones, and it
is never I'm going to be late, just wait for me, bye! It's like ...
So, how's Suzy? Really, pink nail polish? Wow.

Am I the only one who wants to start up a loud conversation while
standing right next to them? I could wear my Walkman and pretend it
was a phone headset. I could talk louder than they do so whoever
they are talking to can hear me. With any luck they'd get the hint.

evil nancy

Nancy Young wrote:
>
> Goomba wrote:
> >
> > What is with this phenomenon? Do we do that unknowingly on lanolin
> > phones too? It's the most annoying thing to be forced into
> > eavesdropping.. often stupid conversations at that!
>
>
> Am I the only one who wants to start up a loud conversation while
> standing right next to them? I could wear my Walkman and pretend it
> was a phone headset. I could talk louder than they do so whoever
> they are talking to can hear me. With any luck they'd get the hint.
>
> evil nancy



Naah, they'd just think YOU were the obnoxious one.
People who are that oblivious don't ever think it's
THEIR problem.

gloria p

On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 11:10:26 -0400, Nancy Young
> wrote:


>> I agree to a certain point. What amazes me is people that order the wrong
>> thing thinking they have ordered something else. We used to dine out with
>> a friend that did that constantly. Either that or he was disappointed with
>> what was served and had to complain and send it back. It was so tedious to
>> dine out with him, I refuse to go out with him. He is welcome in my home
>> for dinner anytime but I'll not dine out with him.
>
>I have a friend who used to be like that. I'd squirm in embarrassment
>because of the way she addressed the waiter, and she ALWAYS had some
>issue with the food or the service. I mean, every single time.
>Hated eating out with her. She's far better now, she's on anti
>depressent medication, and I'm not even trying to be funny, in case
>anyone takes it that way. Much more relaxing having lunch with her
>anymore.

I have an ex that couldn't order anything off the menu without
changing the topping, cheese, sauce, bread, contiments, sides,
etc,etc. It drove me nuts and she's **** off the server every time.
By the time she finished, the meal resembled nothing like what it
started out as, and the server whould have to write as much for the
two of us as would normally be required for a table of 10.

Gald she's gone.

Gar

Nancy Young typed:
>
> What is it with these people. Speak up, I don't think the guy in
> aisle 10 can hear you. (laugh) Yesterday, I hear this voice, it's
> so quiet around here usually that I looked out the side door to see
> who was talking. There was a guy walking down the street on a cell
> phone, if I tried I believe I could make out what he was talking
> about. We're talking from, say, across 50 feet of lawn and! he was
> on the other side of the street.
>
> nancy

CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW?

BOB Verison

In article >,
sf > wrote:
>On 8 Oct 2003 15:15:52 -0400, (Mark
>Shaw) wrote:
>>
>> One place I worked kept everybody's check averages on a white-
>> board. Every month or so the names of those who were consis-
>> tently in the bottom 10% (one or two waitrons usually) were
>> erased -- that's how you knew it was time to drop off your apron
>> and pick up your final paycheck.
>
>Eeeew. That's too cold for words.

One of the assistant managers came up with a scheme to get
people to come in on time -- if you arrived for work more
than 5 minutes late, he sent you home. Not so bad, I guess,
on the face of it -- you ought to be able to show up on time
-- but working a busy friday night with a fifth of the rest
of the waitstaff simply missing was no fun.

This was Sea Galley, which was a spinoff of Red Lobster -- in
other words, a cheapo fish-and-chips joint. Around about 1983
they got the idea that they should be more upscale, and started
selling things like parchment-cooked fresh fish, live lobster,
etc. including bottled wine. So we all got wine-service
training, which was fun, except for the half of the waitstaff
who were simply terrified of the concept and would run to one
of the rest of us for help whenever one of their tables ordered
a bottle.

Not only that, but the head waitron (a guy who ended up selling
used cars, which I'm convinced was his true calling) came up with
the bright idea that we were to take a bottle of wine to EACH and
EVERY table, describe it as part of our spiel, leave it there and
offer to open it when we came back -- even if we were serving Joe
Mechanic, wife and six kids obviously out for their quarterly
fish-and-chips treat.

This guy also used to ask his tables who'd paid with plastic if
they wanted him to calculate and add his tip to the credit slip
or "leave that up to them." He even suggested an amount, but I
don't remember if it was 15% or 20%.

--
Mark Shaw contact info at homepage --> http://www.panix.com/~mshaw
================================================== ======================
"How can any culture that has more lawyers
than butchers call itself a civilization?" - Alton Brown

In article >, wrote:


> Am I the only one who wants to start up a loud conversation while
> standing right next to them? I could wear my Walkman and pretend it
> was a phone headset. I could talk louder than they do so whoever
> they are talking to can hear me. With any luck they'd get the hint.


You're too funny, Nancy. I can picture them turning to you with an
irritated expression on their face, and saying, "Do you have a clue how
loud you are talking? Don't you realize that it is extremely
irritating?".

--
Dan Abel
Sonoma State University
AIS

Gar wrote:

> I have an ex that couldn't order anything off the menu without
> changing the topping, cheese, sauce, bread, contiments, sides,
> etc,etc. It drove me nuts and she's **** off the server every time.
> By the time she finished, the meal resembled nothing like what it
> started out as, and the server whould have to write as much for the
> two of us as would normally be required for a table of 10.

I have a niece that can top that. My father in law used to host the whole family
at birthday/Christmas luncheon at one of his clubs. He would reserve a private
room for us and there was a waiter assigned. Every time we went the niece would
pull the same selfish, world revolves around her nonsense. The waiter came in with
a coffee pot and offered us coffee. The niece wanted tea, so he headed off and got
her a pot of tea. We had cream on the table. She wanted milk. He went off and got
here a pitcher of milk for her tea. Then she asked for a glass of milk. He brought
back a glass of milk. Then she asked for a glass of juice. The waiter went away
and we never saw him again. I can't blame the guy.

Dave Smith wrote:

> I have a niece that can top that. My father in law used to host the whole family
> at birthday/Christmas luncheon at one of his clubs. He would reserve a private
> room for us and there was a waiter assigned. Every time we went the niece would
> pull the same selfish, world revolves around her nonsense. The waiter came in with
> a coffee pot and offered us coffee. The niece wanted tea, so he headed off and got
> her a pot of tea. We had cream on the table. She wanted milk. He went off and got
> here a pitcher of milk for her tea. Then she asked for a glass of milk. He brought
> back a glass of milk. Then she asked for a glass of juice. The waiter went away
> and we never saw him again. I can't blame the guy.
>

Maybe the waiter was good looking, and the niece had a crush on him!

--Lia

"Dog3" > wrote in message
> I agree to a certain point. What amazes me is people that order the wrong
> thing thinking they have ordered something else.

That sounds like such a dumb thing, bit I've seen it happen. Worked with a
fellow that did not like tuna fish warm. Did not matter if it was a
sandwich, or casserole, if it was heated, he said he despised it. Then we
are at lunch one day and he ordered a tuna meld. When it was served, he
said he did not order it. Three of us heard him say it, but he denied it.
Ed

On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 11:10:26 -0400, Nancy Young
> wrote:

>
> Also at Christmas I'd leave an extra large tip at places where I was
> a real regular and had a raport with the bartenders.
>
> nancy

You can't believe what a laugh you got from me with that
statement,.. I remember you said you're a "non" (or low
volume)-drinker who likes Pub food.

So, when you say "It's the conversation", you really mean
it!