----- Original Message -----
From: "Dee Randall" >

>
> Ed, curious about your post and future purchase, I decided to read a
> little about copper pans.
>
> Fantes (www.fantes.com) says this about tinned lined copper pans.
>
> "Our tin lined pans are lined by hand, and will display some brush strokes
> as a result. Lining by hand insures thicker coats of tin, that will last
> much, much, much longer than pans that are electroplated."
>
> Fantes must be referring to "Mauviel" copper pans, as that is the only
> brand I see they cover.
> So, if you decide on tinned vs. ss, Mauviel might be the answer for you.
>
> However, since I am unknowledgeable regarding this, maybe most good copper
> pans are all 'lined by hand." ??
>
> Dee Dee
>

Doing some research, copper cookware goes back a very long time. In the
past it was all tin lined and the technology or bonding unlike metal was not
available. According to the Ruffoni web page, the tin lining goes back 3500
years.

It seems the better cookware is at leas 2.5 mm thick. In the case of
Ruffoni, they have three lines. The Opera is the op and the ware is hammed
to shape by hand, then tinned. The Protagonista line is machine formed and
also tin lined. The Modern line is bonded SS to the copper.

Mauviel has similar lines. The Cupretam Hammered is hand made and tinned.
An 11" sauté pan is $300 The lid is $125. The Cuprinox line has the SS
lining. The same sized sauté pan with SS is $425. plus lid.
A few of the brands I've been looking at:
http://www.ruffoniusa.com/
http://www.falkculinair.com/
http://www.buycoppercookware.com/cat...FQOfxgodZDnwbg
http://www.factorydirect2you.com/maco1.html

Prices seem comparable among brands and from the web pages, so does the
quality. There are no stores near me that carry this stuff so I've yet to
get a hands on look at it.

My goal is to buy four new pieces of cookware over the next few months. Two
are easy, a cast iron grill pan, a cast iron enameled Dutch oven (about 3
quart), an 11" (or so) skillet and a 3 qt sauté pan. The last piece will be
copper. The fry pan will either be copper or a CIA brand with copper
lining.
http://www.metrokitchen.com/category...ction-cookware

Tin lined pans do wear and must be re-tinned, about a $50 job once in a
while. With care and for home use, I'm guessing that is 5 to 10 years. I'm
hoping someone will respond with that information.

Since we bought an Italian made gas range a few months back (Bertazzoni) I
figure it would only be proper to have Italian made cookware to use on it,
thus the Ruffoni line. I also like the idea of using traditional materials
and methods, but there is a practical limit.

To answer the question Why Copper? look at the heat conduction chart on the
Falk web page. The difference is huge. SS is about 15, cast iron about 18,
aluminum is 50, but copper is 90.

Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/





** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
> To answer the question Why Copper? look at the heat conduction chart on the
> Falk web page. The difference is huge. SS is about 15, cast iron about 18,
> aluminum is 50, but copper is 90.

That goes a long way to explain the good service of some old Magfessa(sp?)
cookware that I bought years ago. Aluminum bonded to stainless steel, I
think it cost $20 for a deep skillett, a shallow skillett and a cover.
The only one I use regularly is the shallow skillett, but it alone is
worth the $20. Light, tough and easy to clean.

For pure utility thick cast iron is hard to beat, but even harder to lift.
And, one has to be mindful of the order in which things are cooked; after
a strongly flavored meal, something to "mop up" the extra flavor is needed.

Still, the cost of copper cookware has me somewhat flabbergasted. It makes
carbon steel seem a very promising compromise.

bob prohaska

"bob prohaska's usenet account" > wrote in message
>
> Still, the cost of copper cookware has me somewhat flabbergasted. It makes
> carbon steel seem a very promising compromise.
>
> bob prohaska

It is very high, especially no that the price of copper has skyrocketed and
the dollar tanked against the Euro. I'd not buy a set, but my thought is
that one, maybe two pieces that will last me the rest of my life is not so
bad, especially if the performance is what is touted.

I recently spent $2500 for a new gas range. My feelings at the time was, an
oven is and oven, a box that gets hot. I'm still amazed at how well this
oven cooks everything so much better than my old one. Wish I had done this
years ago. That is why I'm thinking some new cookware.


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
> I recently spent $2500 for a new gas range. My feelings at the time was, an
> oven is and oven, a box that gets hot. I'm still amazed at how well this
> oven cooks everything so much better than my old one. Wish I had done this
> years ago. That is why I'm thinking some new cookware.

Point taken, fine tools are a bad investment only if they're not used.

bob p

On Aug 14, 12:49*am, bob prohaska's usenet account
> wrote:
> Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
> > I recently spent $2500 for a new gas range. *My feelings at the time was, an
> > oven is and oven, a box that gets hot. *I'm still amazed at how well this
> > oven cooks everything so much better than my old one. *Wish I had done this
> > years ago. *That is why I'm thinking some new cookware.
>
> Point taken, fine tools are a bad investment only if they're not used.
>
> bob p


Gas does have its advantages. On my smooth cooktop for instance, last
night I was making a polenta. At some point where the polenta was
bubbling/popping out, I lifted the pot off the hot ring.

Mario Batali says that he suggests keeping another burner at a lower
heat to continue cooking; however, this entails lifting it onto
another burner. In this case, any "on" burner at all would have been
too much heat. (Actually, this polenta finished cooking on its
own.)

If I had gas, I could just turn off the burner, and hopefully the gas
burner would be cool enough to stop the boiling.

For people like me with electric,one has to work around these things.

All this leading up to your oven testimonial.
Can you put it into words as to how it is better. I assume your oven
is electric?

BTW, I looked re copper pans in my newly aquired book "The
Professional Chef" Author "Culinary Institue of America."
and another BTW, I don't recommend this book to anyone but a novice.
I guess that's what it's all about, though: getting students ready for
the profession. The book said actually not anything of any import
about copper pans.

Next time you go to Italy do a project: go to a restaurant chef and
ask him what he uses/recommends. Might be a fun exercise ;-))

Dee Dee

"Dee Dee" > wrote in message
All this leading up to your oven testimonial.
Can you put it into words as to how it is better. I assume your oven
is electric?

*******************************************

No, it is gas, as was the old oven. The only difference is the Bertazzoni
has "European" convection. I don't know if European is any different than
American convection but is is far superior to the old Roper with no
convection.

Everything we cook in it comes out better. Chicken is juicier and has a
crispier skin. pork and beef roasts have that nice outer crust but are more
tender and jucier than in the past. We are also now cooking for shorter
times at higher temperature. Cakes take less time too. My wife found that
out the first time she used the oven and found the pound case that took 80
minutes in the past was well done at 60. Next time she took it out at 50.
Temperature is dead on according to a thermometer I put in there.

I bought the range for the more powerful burners, for the full cast iron
grid to make sliding pots easier, as well as the stylish looks. I expected
the oven to be like any other we've used. It was a very pleasant surpise.

On Aug 14, 9:00 am, Dee Dee > wrote:

> On my smooth cooktop for instance, last
> night I was making a polenta. At some point where the polenta was
> bubbling/popping out, I lifted the pot off the hot ring.

I have gas. A $10 crockpot does a superior job on polenta. No heat on
bottom, just sides. You have to stir it two or three times over the
course of cooking.