Barbecue (alt.food.barbecue) Discuss barbecue and grilling--southern style "low and slow" smoking of ribs, shoulders and briskets, as well as direct heat grilling of everything from burgers to salmon to vegetables.

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Old 27-06-2011, 08:28 PM posted to alt.food.barbecue
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Default To wrap or not wrap - pork ribs

I know some of you experts, maybe most of you, don't wrap your pork ribs.
I have been wrapping mine after smoking for about three hours. At that
point,
they seem to be well smoked and a good color. Then I wrap them in foil with
about one fourth cup of mop, usually for about another couple hours.

They come out quite good; moist, fall off the bone cleanly, and tender, and
well smoked.

I wonder though if they are somehow better when not wrapped, but when I
have tried not wrapping them, they get too dark actually a bit crispy,
neither
of which I want.

I use an offset smoker, mostly oak wood (I can usually get all the Oak I
want
for free), and try to keep the temp at grill level around 225 - 250, with
chimney always wide open.

Does anyone have any suggestions? I have been barbecuing for nearly sixty
years, but am no expert, and always ready to learn how to do something
better. Thanks in advance for any advice.

Bob-tx






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Old 27-06-2011, 09:02 PM posted to alt.food.barbecue
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Default To wrap or not wrap - pork ribs


Bob-tx wrote:

I know some of you experts, maybe most of you, don't wrap your pork ribs.
I have been wrapping mine after smoking for about three hours. At that
point,
they seem to be well smoked and a good color. Then I wrap them in foil with
about one fourth cup of mop, usually for about another couple hours.

They come out quite good; moist, fall off the bone cleanly, and tender, and
well smoked.

I wonder though if they are somehow better when not wrapped, but when I
have tried not wrapping them, they get too dark actually a bit crispy,
neither
of which I want.

I use an offset smoker, mostly oak wood (I can usually get all the Oak I
want
for free), and try to keep the temp at grill level around 225 - 250, with
chimney always wide open.

Does anyone have any suggestions? I have been barbecuing for nearly sixty
years, but am no expert, and always ready to learn how to do something
better. Thanks in advance for any advice.

Bob-tx



I would suggest that if your ribs are getting dark and crispy in an
additional two hours if left unwrapped, that your temperature readings
are either not accurate, or you have an issue with radiant heat reaching
the ribs. I have a metal shield in my offset smoker to block radiant
heat from reaching the cook area. The fairly short 5 hr total time you
indicate also seems to point to the actual temps being higher than
indicated. I'm not an expert, but my ribs tend to cook closer to 8 hours
and don't get crispy. They are dark, but that's from my dry rub, and it
doesn't contain any sugar that could burn.
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Old 27-06-2011, 09:48 PM posted to alt.food.barbecue
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Default To wrap or not wrap - pork ribs

Bob-tx wrote:
..... fall off the bone cleanly, and
tender, and well smoked.


Bob, those are over-cooked ribs that have been stewed after smoking. I don't
use foil, ahve done thousands of slabs, and they come out tender, moist and
with a bit of a tug of meat pulling from the bone.

I use an offset smoker, mostly oak wood (I can usually get all the
Oak I want for free), and try to keep the temp at grill level around 225 -
250,
with chimney always wide open.


I cook my spares at 275F or better. They are much more quickly tenderized
than a large cut like pork butt or shoulder because of the thinness of the
meat and the large surface of bone. Cooking is accomplished in about three
hours. You know they're done when you can bend the slab and the meat
seperates from itself.

It sounds like you have a lot of hot, direct heat hitting the ribs. I would
question if your thermometer is providing accurate readings at the grill
surface. I would also experiment with baffles to keep as much direct hot
heat, from the offset, away from the ribs as possible. You also may just be
cooking your ribs far too long.

I hope this helps some.

--
Dave
"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."--------
----- Robert Heinlein


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Old 28-06-2011, 03:18 AM posted to alt.food.barbecue
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Default To wrap or not wrap - pork ribs


"Bob-tx" No Spam no contact wrote in message
. ..
I know some of you experts, maybe most of you, don't wrap your pork ribs.
I have been wrapping mine after smoking for about three hours. At that
point,
they seem to be well smoked and a good color. Then I wrap them in foil
with
about one fourth cup of mop, usually for about another couple hours.

They come out quite good; moist, fall off the bone cleanly, and tender,
and
well smoked.

I wonder though if they are somehow better when not wrapped, but when I
have tried not wrapping them, they get too dark actually a bit crispy,
neither
of which I want.

I use an offset smoker, mostly oak wood (I can usually get all the Oak I
want
for free), and try to keep the temp at grill level around 225 - 250, with
chimney always wide open.

Does anyone have any suggestions? I have been barbecuing for nearly sixty
years, but am no expert, and always ready to learn how to do something
better. Thanks in advance for any advice.

Bob-tx


I'm all for using foil if you need it. All it does is increase the humidity
of the cooking environment surrounding the ribs and the meat therefore
doesn't dry out as it cooks to completion. The Weber Smokey Mountain is
designed to do that. A large water pan keeps the internal temp at 225F
ongoing until the ribs are done. Wrapping in foil, I think, basically does
the same thing.

I think you always want your cooking temp to be 225F-250F. Anything higher
doesn't allow the collagen to breakdown so the meat "bites right". The very
slow breakdown of collagen is what makes the rib taste like ribs should.
This very slow cooking is the basis for "sous vide" cooking.

Kent





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Old 28-06-2011, 03:20 AM posted to alt.food.barbecue
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Default To wrap or not wrap - pork ribs


"Dave Bugg" wrote in message
...
Bob-tx wrote:
..... fall off the bone cleanly, and
tender, and well smoked.


Bob, those are over-cooked ribs that have been stewed after smoking. I
don't use foil, ahve done thousands of slabs, and they come out tender,
moist and with a bit of a tug of meat pulling from the bone.

I use an offset smoker, mostly oak wood (I can usually get all the
Oak I want for free), and try to keep the temp at grill level around
225 - 250,
with chimney always wide open.


I cook my spares at 275F or better. They are much more quickly tenderized
than a large cut like pork butt or shoulder because of the thinness of the
meat and the large surface of bone. Cooking is accomplished in about three
hours. You know they're done when you can bend the slab and the meat
seperates from itself.

It sounds like you have a lot of hot, direct heat hitting the ribs. I
would question if your thermometer is providing accurate readings at the
grill surface. I would also experiment with baffles to keep as much direct
hot heat, from the offset, away from the ribs as possible. You also may
just be cooking your ribs far too long.

I hope this helps some.

--
Dave


275F or higher is too high for ribs.







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Old 28-06-2011, 07:26 AM posted to alt.food.barbecue
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Default To wrap or not wrap - pork ribs

Kent wrote:

I'm all for using foil if you need it. All it does is increase the
humidity of the cooking environment surrounding the ribs and the meat
therefore doesn't dry out as it cooks to completion.


Unmitigated B.S. You can even dry out meat that is cooked in water. Once
specific temps are reached, extracellular fluids are forced out of the meat
under pressure. This cannot be prevented, only mitigated by the use of time
and temperature. All foil does is catch the moisture that escapes the meat,
creating a steam bath.

As was pointed out, there is the point that foil may reducing drying caused
by air movement, but that is more of an issue AFTER cooking is completed for
longer term holding, and for reheating leftovers, than it is for cooking.


The Weber Smokey
Mountain is designed to do that. A large water pan keeps the internal
temp at 225F ongoing until the ribs are done.


No it doesn't. I have esily gotten the internal temp of a WSM well above 225
WITH the water pan full.

Wrapping in foil, I
think, basically does the same thing.


Really? Wrapping in foil keeps the internal temp at 225? Nice one.

I think you always want your cooking temp to be 225F-250F. Anything
higher doesn't allow the collagen to breakdown so the meat "bites
right".


Gawd, what an idiot. This proves that you have never bbq'd a rib in your
life.


The very slow breakdown of collagen is what makes the rib
taste like ribs should.


Uh, no. The breakdown of collagen is what makes the ribs tender. The
collagen might add some texture and moisture, but not taste.

This very slow cooking is the basis for "sous vide" cooking.


So sayeth the pretentious, pedantic, prig.


--
Dave
"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."--------
----- Robert Heinlein


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Old 28-06-2011, 07:28 AM posted to alt.food.barbecue
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Default To wrap or not wrap - pork ribs

Kent wrote:
"Dave Bugg" wrote in message
...
Bob-tx wrote:
..... fall off the bone cleanly, and
tender, and well smoked.


Bob, those are over-cooked ribs that have been stewed after smoking.
I don't use foil, ahve done thousands of slabs, and they come out
tender, moist and with a bit of a tug of meat pulling from the bone.

I use an offset smoker, mostly oak wood (I can usually get all the
Oak I want for free), and try to keep the temp at grill level around
225 - 250,
with chimney always wide open.


I cook my spares at 275F or better. They are much more quickly
tenderized than a large cut like pork butt or shoulder because of
the thinness of the meat and the large surface of bone. Cooking is
accomplished in about three hours. You know they're done when you
can bend the slab and the meat seperates from itself.

It sounds like you have a lot of hot, direct heat hitting the ribs. I
would question if your thermometer is providing accurate readings at
the grill surface. I would also experiment with baffles to keep as
much direct hot heat, from the offset, away from the ribs as
possible. You also may just be cooking your ribs far too long.

I hope this helps some.

--
Dave


275F or higher is too high for ribs.


I've done thousands of slabs of ribs. I've won contests. I've Sold them to
retail and wholesale customers alike. You, on the other hand, have just
proven that you have never bbq'd a thing in your life. You nothing but a
pretentious, pedantic, prig.

--
Dave
"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."--------
----- Robert Heinlein


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Old 28-06-2011, 07:38 AM posted to alt.food.barbecue
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Default To wrap or not wrap - pork ribs

Kent wrote:

Cooking ribs in a smoker is "sous vide". "Sous Vide" means "under
vacuum".


BBQ isn't cooked 'under vacuum'. Sheesh, you just can't keep from
embarrasing yourself.

Another fact: BBQ can be cooked at any temperature. Big Jim and a lot of
others do it all the time. You would know this if you actually had done any
bbq. I bbq at a temperature defined by the cut of meat I'm cooking. Thinner
cuts, like ribs, have a delicate balancing act which, in my mind is solved
by cooking at a higher temperature than brisket or shoulders. This means
that the collagen breakdown occurs faster and I can get the ribs off of the
heat quicker.

Sous Vide, indeed. What a pretentious, pedantic prig (PPP).

--
Dave
"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."--------
----- Robert Heinlein


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Old 28-06-2011, 09:52 AM posted to alt.food.barbecue
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Posts: 954
Default To wrap or not wrap - pork ribs


"Dave Bugg" wrote in message
...
Kent wrote:

I'm all for using foil if you need it. All it does is increase the
humidity of the cooking environment surrounding the ribs and the meat
therefore doesn't dry out as it cooks to completion.


Unmitigated B.S. You can even dry out meat that is cooked in water. Once
specific temps are reached, extracellular fluids are forced out of the
meat under pressure. This cannot be prevented, only mitigated by the use
of time and temperature. All foil does is catch the moisture that escapes
the meat, creating a steam bath.

As was pointed out, there is the point that foil may reducing drying
caused by air movement, but that is more of an issue AFTER cooking is
completed for longer term holding, and for reheating leftovers, than it is
for cooking.


The Weber Smokey
Mountain is designed to do that. A large water pan keeps the internal
temp at 225F ongoing until the ribs are done.


No it doesn't. I have esily gotten the internal temp of a WSM well above
225 WITH the water pan full.

Wrapping in foil, I
think, basically does the same thing.


Really? Wrapping in foil keeps the internal temp at 225? Nice one.

I think you always want your cooking temp to be 225F-250F. Anything
higher doesn't allow the collagen to breakdown so the meat "bites
right".


Gawd, what an idiot. This proves that you have never bbq'd a rib in your
life.


The very slow breakdown of collagen is what makes the rib
taste like ribs should.


Uh, no. The breakdown of collagen is what makes the ribs tender. The
collagen might add some texture and moisture, but not taste.

This very slow cooking is the basis for "sous vide" cooking.


So sayeth the pretentious, pedantic, prig.
Dave


I live with my level of ignorance every moment in life. That's the opposite
of a pedantic pretentious prig. You, on the other hand, are threatened by
any possible level of ignorance you might have. I could respond to all
you're saying above. I won't. It would threaten you, as simple as it is.


Kent

"A human being should be able to drive a truck"



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Old 28-06-2011, 12:44 PM posted to alt.food.barbecue
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Default To wrap or not wrap - pork ribs

On Mon, 27 Jun 2011 14:28:50 -0500, "Bob-tx" No Spam no contact
wrote:

I know some of you experts, maybe most of you, don't wrap your pork ribs.
I have been wrapping mine after smoking for about three hours. At that
point,
they seem to be well smoked and a good color. Then I wrap them in foil with
about one fourth cup of mop, usually for about another couple hours.

They come out quite good; moist, fall off the bone cleanly, and tender, and
well smoked.

I wonder though if they are somehow better when not wrapped, but when I
have tried not wrapping them, they get too dark actually a bit crispy,
neither
of which I want.

I use an offset smoker, mostly oak wood (I can usually get all the Oak I
want
for free), and try to keep the temp at grill level around 225 - 250, with
chimney always wide open.

Does anyone have any suggestions? I have been barbecuing for nearly sixty
years, but am no expert, and always ready to learn how to do something
better. Thanks in advance for any advice.

Bob-tx





I use the 3-2-1 method and they always come out just right. 3 hours
uncovered, 2 hours covered, then the last hour uncovered for mopping
and carmelizing the sauce.






Shinglhed
If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible
warning.


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Old 28-06-2011, 03:01 PM posted to alt.food.barbecue
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Default To wrap or not wrap - pork ribs

On 6/27/2011 7:18 PM, Kent wrote:


I think

Does it hurt much?

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Old 28-06-2011, 03:06 PM posted to alt.food.barbecue
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Default To wrap or not wrap - pork ribs

Kent wrote:
"Dave Bugg" wrote in message
...
Kent wrote:

I'm all for using foil if you need it. All it does is increase the
humidity of the cooking environment surrounding the ribs and the
meat therefore doesn't dry out as it cooks to completion.


Unmitigated B.S. You can even dry out meat that is cooked in water.
Once specific temps are reached, extracellular fluids are forced out
of the meat under pressure. This cannot be prevented, only mitigated
by the use of time and temperature. All foil does is catch the
moisture that escapes the meat, creating a steam bath.

As was pointed out, there is the point that foil may reducing drying
caused by air movement, but that is more of an issue AFTER cooking is
completed for longer term holding, and for reheating leftovers, than
it is for cooking.


The Weber Smokey
Mountain is designed to do that. A large water pan keeps the
internal temp at 225F ongoing until the ribs are done.


No it doesn't. I have esily gotten the internal temp of a WSM well
above 225 WITH the water pan full.

Wrapping in foil, I
think, basically does the same thing.


Really? Wrapping in foil keeps the internal temp at 225? Nice one.

I think you always want your cooking temp to be 225F-250F. Anything
higher doesn't allow the collagen to breakdown so the meat "bites
right".


Gawd, what an idiot. This proves that you have never bbq'd a rib in
your life.


The very slow breakdown of collagen is what makes the rib
taste like ribs should.


Uh, no. The breakdown of collagen is what makes the ribs tender. The
collagen might add some texture and moisture, but not taste.

This very slow cooking is the basis for "sous vide" cooking.


So sayeth the pretentious, pedantic, prig.
Dave


I live with my level of ignorance every moment in life.


Too true.

That's the opposite of a pedantic pretentious prig.


Uh, not really. Being stone-cold ignorant and being a PPP actually go quite
well hand-in-hand. Think about it (of course you'd need to know the
definition of each of the 'P's in order to see how well matched they are).

You, on the other hand, are threatened by any possible level of ignorance
you might have. I
could respond to all you're saying above. I won't. It would threaten
you, as simple as it is.


Snork

"A human being should be able to drive a truck"


I can, can you?
--
Dave
"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."--------
----- Robert Heinlein


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Old 30-06-2011, 03:27 AM posted to alt.food.barbecue
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Default To wrap or not wrap - pork ribs

On Jun 27, 12:28*pm, "Bob-tx" No Spam no contact wrote:
I know some of you experts, maybe most of you, don't wrap your pork ribs.
I have been wrapping mine after smoking for about three hours. *At that
point,
they seem to be well smoked and a good color. *Then I wrap them in foil with
about one fourth cup of mop, usually for about another couple hours.

They come out quite good; moist, fall off the bone cleanly, and tender, and
well smoked.

I wonder though if they are somehow better when not wrapped, but when I
have tried not wrapping them, they get too dark actually a bit crispy,
neither
of which I want.

I use an offset smoker, mostly oak wood (I can usually get all the Oak I
want
for free), and try to keep the temp at grill level around 225 - 250, with
chimney always wide open.

Does anyone have any suggestions? *I have been barbecuing for nearly sixty
years, but am no expert, and always ready to learn how to do something
better. *Thanks in advance for any advice.

Bob-tx


If you like em, and tried other methods you know to be standard not as
much, well, what's the problem?

Coming from the no foil camp, I've been having some issues with ribs
recently that makes me wonder if foiling might not be something to
try.

If it works, use it. Just prefer the simplest methods is all. And
hell, can go through the alu foil pretty quick this way, am a cheap
ass too.
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Old 30-06-2011, 03:55 PM posted to alt.food.barbecue
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Default To wrap or not wrap - pork ribs

On Jun 27, 3:28*pm, "Bob-tx" No Spam no contact wrote:
I know some of you experts, maybe most of you, don't wrap your pork ribs.
I have been wrapping mine after smoking for about three hours. *At that
point,
they seem to be well smoked and a good color. *Then I wrap them in foil with
about one fourth cup of mop, usually for about another couple hours.

They come out quite good; moist, fall off the bone cleanly, and tender, and
well smoked.

I wonder though if they are somehow better when not wrapped, but when I
have tried not wrapping them, they get too dark actually a bit crispy,
neither
of which I want.

I use an offset smoker, mostly oak wood (I can usually get all the Oak I
want
for free), and try to keep the temp at grill level around 225 - 250, with
chimney always wide open.

Does anyone have any suggestions? *I have been barbecuing for nearly sixty
years, but am no expert, and always ready to learn how to do something
better. *Thanks in advance for any advice.

Bob-tx


Hi Bob, we use a 3/2/1 method that we adapted as the meat was getting
too
done and was mushy. 3 hours uncovered, cut down to 2 hours, 2 hours
covered,
cut down to 1, and 1 hour back on the grill to crisp 'em up, back to
nothing. We add
a small can of pineapple juice, pouring it all over the ribs when
covering, then eat them
when the hour covered is done. They can be painted in bbq sauce and
browned up
IF they are not too done to cut and get back on and off the grill.
So I guess we use a 2/1/0 method. Hope that helps. Each cooker may
produce
different results. We are using a ceramic cooker - Kamado- and if you
go to that
website there is a recipe section that is really helpful.
Happy Q-ing, Nan in DE


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