Walt Fles wrote:
> I brined a pork shoulder roast overnight to prepare for smoking.

Why?

--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

I brined a pork shoulder roast overnight to prepare for smoking.
I spent about 6 hours smoking with royal oak lump and some mesquite chunks.

It turned out quite good - not too salty form the brine but you could
taste it a bit. A definite smoke ring, good flavor, and a nice juicy cut
of meat.

I'm definitely happy with this purchase!

On Mar 29, 9:33 pm, Walt Fles > wrote:
> I brined a pork shoulder roast overnight to prepare for smoking.
> I spent about 6 hours smoking with royal oak lump and some mesquite chunks.
>
> It turned out quite good - not too salty form the brine but you could
> taste it a bit. A definite smoke ring, good flavor, and a nice juicy cut
> of meat.
>
> I'm definitely happy with this purchase!

As Dave says, why brine a pork butt?! There really is no need, and
absolutely no advantage to brining that cut of meat! Save brining for
poultry and the occasional fish!

Also, 6 hours seems like a very small amount of time to smoke a pork
butt, w/o knowing how much it weighed originally. If it weighed the
usual 9-12 or more pounds, 6 hours smoking time seems like a good
start, but not much else. How did you finish it in such a short time?!
What was the internal temp? Anything less than 190F was not enough, if
making pulled pork. Did you pull it, or slice it?
Don't sweat the responses- they are just from people who have been
there, and done that! We're not giving you a hard time- we're just
trying to save you some trouble and heartache, and trying to help you
make better bbq! Nothing personal! Good luck in your future endeavors!
Hang in there, and soon, you'll be giving "newbies" the same advice
you're getting now!

JimnGin wrote:
> On Mar 29, 9:33 pm, Walt Fles > wrote:
>> I brined a pork shoulder roast overnight to prepare for smoking.
>> I spent about 6 hours smoking with royal oak lump and some mesquite chunks.
>>
>> It turned out quite good - not too salty form the brine but you could
>> taste it a bit. A definite smoke ring, good flavor, and a nice juicy cut
>> of meat.
>>
>> I'm definitely happy with this purchase!
>
> As Dave says, why brine a pork butt?! There really is no need, and
> absolutely no advantage to brining that cut of meat! Save brining for
> poultry and the occasional fish!
>
> Also, 6 hours seems like a very small amount of time to smoke a pork
> butt, w/o knowing how much it weighed originally. If it weighed the
> usual 9-12 or more pounds, 6 hours smoking time seems like a good
> start, but not much else. How did you finish it in such a short time?!
> What was the internal temp? Anything less than 190F was not enough, if
> making pulled pork. Did you pull it, or slice it?
> Don't sweat the responses- they are just from people who have been
> there, and done that! We're not giving you a hard time- we're just
> trying to save you some trouble and heartache, and trying to help you
> make better bbq! Nothing personal! Good luck in your future endeavors!
> Hang in there, and soon, you'll be giving "newbies" the same advice
> you're getting now!
It was 6 pounds, and the brine added some nice moisture and actually
the brown sugar and molasses penetrated it and left a dark ring in the
middle of it. overall it turned out quite well.

"Dave Bugg" > wrote in message
news:bpBHj.2081$fq2.125@trndny03...
> Walt Fles wrote:
>> I brined a pork shoulder roast overnight to prepare for smoking.
>
> Why?
>
> --
> Dave
> www.davebbq.com
>

Exactly my thought. The only piece of pork that may benefit from brining is
a hunk of loin. It has little fat. I don't believe I have ever brined a
piece of pork.
I don't like starting day before yesterday to cook a piece of pork.
I usually just open the package, sprinkle on my rub and cook.
--
James A. "Big Jim" Whitten

www.lazyq.com

Walt Fles wrote:

> It was 6 pounds, and the brine added some nice moisture and actually
> the brown sugar and molasses penetrated it and left a dark ring in the
> middle of it. overall it turned out quite well.

Well, whatever makes you happy but I'm also in the "why?"
corner. Now that you have a "control", I'd suggest just
rubbing the next one and cooking. I doubt if you'll see much
benefit to brining after that. But hey, you're cookin' it,
if it makes you happy - do it. ;-)

--
Steve

On Mar 30, 8:09*am, Steve Calvin > wrote:
> Walt Fles wrote:
> > It was 6 pounds, and the brine added some nice moisture

And you know that because you've cooked a few that weren't brined?
That cut of meat has so much excess fat and moisture that we cook it
for hours at a time getting rid of it all to make it edible.
Moisture is NOT a problem with butts.

As Calvin said though, it's your time and money. Do as you please.

JimnGin > wrote:

> On Mar 29, 9:33 pm, Walt Fles > wrote:
>> I brined a pork shoulder roast overnight to prepare for smoking.
>> I spent about 6 hours smoking with royal oak lump and some mesquite chunks.
>>
>> It turned out quite good - not too salty form the brine but you could
>> taste it a bit. A definite smoke ring, good flavor, and a nice juicy cut
>> of meat.
>>
>> I'm definitely happy with this purchase!
>
> As Dave says, why brine a pork butt?! There really is no need, and
> absolutely no advantage to brining that cut of meat!

Try it, and you'll find you may like it. I've done several that way
and it's a nice change of pace.

Nothing wrong with that. It's not against any laws far as I know.
Not sure why everybody is against it. True, it doesn't need it, but
it can benefit from it, especially if you're tired of the some 'ol
pork.

-sw

Big Jim wrote:
> "Dave Bugg" > wrote in message
> news:bpBHj.2081$fq2.125@trndny03...
>> Walt Fles wrote:
>>> I brined a pork shoulder roast overnight to prepare for smoking.
>>
>> Why?
>>
>> --
>> Dave
>> www.davebbq.com
>>
>
> Exactly my thought. The only piece of pork that may benefit from
> brining is a hunk of loin. It has little fat. I don't believe I have
> ever brined a piece of pork.

Yeah. It would have to be a real lean cut, and even then I'd probably grill
it or roast it so a long cooking wouldn't dry it out.

> I don't like starting day before yesterday to cook a piece of pork.
> I usually just open the package, sprinkle on my rub and cook.

Amen.

--
Dave
"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."

Walt Fles wrote:

> It was 6 pounds, and the brine added some nice moisture and actually
> the brown sugar and molasses penetrated it and left a dark ring in the
> middle of it. overall it turned out quite well.

A butt has a lot of moisture which is increased with the cooking as the
collagen breaks down. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not criticizing you. I was
just trying to figure out if you knew that brining a shoulder or butt for
bbq just isn't necessary.

--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

On Mar 30, 9:54*am, Sqwertz > wrote:


> Not sure why everybody is against it.

I don't think anyone is against it, but we're simply saying what you
said he

> *True, it doesn't need it,

And letting him know that moistness is not a particularly good reason
to brine this cut o meat.

>but
> it can benefit from it, especially if you're tired of the some 'ol
> pork.

That makes sense to me. It doesn't make as much sense to do on your
very first cook, that's all. And then think it helped keep the meat
moist.

On Mar 30, 8:37 am, "Nunya Bidnits" > wrote:

> Here's something to try in your recipe: Smoked (Spanish) Paprika. I have
> seen smoked Paprika sold both with and without the "Spanish" designation. It
> adds a dimension of smoke flavor to rubs and sauces, and in my opinion,
> where a recipe calls for "liquid smoke", tastes much better and more natural.

I was visiting in Houston about a month ago, and went to Penzeys's
where they have the sample spices in large jars for you to take a
whiff. The smoke Spanish and Hungarian paprikas they had there were
beyond description they smelled so good. Nothing like the stuff in
the bottles I had that made me not like smoked paprika.

Marty, here's something to try. Next time you put a butt on, get a
couple of handfuls of jalapenos, core them, remove the ribs and the
seeds if you don't want too much heat. Smoke them with your butt
until they are almost crispy. Give them a good grind, and put that in
a shaker.

It is good for everything from baked potatoes, popcorn to soup. The
japs really take the smoke well.

Robert




Chilpotle powder, being dried and smoked jalapeno, will also give
> smoke flavor but adds quite a bit of heat as well.
>
> MartyB in KC

On Mar 31, 3:14 am, " >
wrote:
> On Mar 30, 8:37 am, "Nunya Bidnits" > wrote:

> I was visiting in Houston about a month ago, and went to Penzeys's
> where they have the sample spices in large jars for you to take a
> whiff. The smoke Spanish and Hungarian paprikas they had there were
> beyond description they smelled so good. Nothing like the stuff in
> the bottles I had that made me not like smoked paprika.


Penzey's is to spices what smokers are to meat!! I second the nod to
Penzey's! There is a new retail location that opened recently, and is
only 45 minutes to an hour from us. I am low on many of my Penzey's
items, and am looking forward to the trip to that location in the very
near future! I've used their spices, herbs, mixes, etc, for years for
baking, cooking, and smoking. Not too long ago, I made the best chili
the wife and I have ever had using several of their ground and dried
chilies!

JImnGin

On Mar 30, 3:15 pm, "Dave Bugg" > wrote:
> Walt Fles wrote:
> > It was 6 pounds, and the brine added some nice moisture and actually
> > the brown sugar and molasses penetrated it and left a dark ring in the
> > middle of it. overall it turned out quite well.
>
> A butt has a lot of moisture which is increased with the cooking as the
> collagen breaks down. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not criticizing you. I was
> just trying to figure out if you knew that brining a shoulder or butt for
> bbq just isn't necessary.
>
> --
> Davewww.davebbq.com

OK thanks for your input. One thing though I did notice was that my
old thermometer for some reason
(maybe since it should not be immersed one of my unknowing children
washed it in the sink) was not
working, and when I went to the store to get some other food to have
with dinner I picked up another
grill/oven safe meat thermometer. The shoulder was done much sooner
than I expected, so therefore I
think it cooked a bit quicker than I thought it would. The bone
pulled out fairly easily but the meat did not
shred (pulled) as I hoped it would have. I'm just learning how to
regulate the heat on this grill/smoker but
I'm certain the next times will be much closer to perfection.

On Mar 31, 9:02 am, "Nunya Bidnits" > wrote:


> You're making chipotle! Are you using red ripened japs? That's the only way
> I've done it.

Sadly, the red ripened ones have another home. I eat them with
sandwiches, or save the big ones and grill them in halves after
stuffing with cream cheese seafood dip. The red ones are a little
sweeter and seem to have a more gentle heat to them. So some of them
go into salsas for color as well as tasted.

>Flavor would be different using unripened japs.

Oh, yeah. The green peppers have a much sharper flavor, no sweetness.

Take a handful of the peppers while dark green and just starting to
turn and smoke them to almost dry. I make mine the way one of our
local pepper purveyors does, and he brands his "Texas Gunpowder". I
wash the peppers, cut the stem end off to allow the moisture to escape
and dry and grind the whole peppers seeds and all.

When you smoke them green, they have a really different taste, and it
is much more pungent. I like to smoke mine over local oak wood with a
piece or two of mesquite thrown in. They will be VERY pungent and
smoky. For a change, I just cut them into slices and put them on a
non stick surface and let the little wheels smoke. These are really
great in bowl of Texas red.


When my garden
> gets going I let the jalapenos ripen because they taste better and I smoke
> 'em. Most people are familiar with chipotle only the way its usually sold in
> stores, in a can, packed in adobo sauce. Those are tasty, and nicely hot,
> but not the same as straight chipotle, obviously.

Those little cans aren't very popular around here. Most, but not all
of the folks that are serious about traditional cooking smoke their
own and do not want all the sauce with its tomato, vinegar and spices
in it along with the chilies.

Interesting to me and a few of my amigos that prefer the traditional
ways is the fact that when you search for recipes to make your own
chipotles, the almost always include the adobo sauce. They also tell
you to use dried peppers to smoke! Wrong - not if you want a
traditional chipotle.

It's raining here so no work for me, so a little more info with your
coffee.

Chipotles were originally dried and smoked for preservation purposes.
In many places in Mexico it is still the same, with fresh japs put in
the smoker and dried much like jerky with the same aim in mind. Our
fair city is full of latinos (69% !) and has been a gateway from
Mexico for many decades. It was only natural that the traditional
methods of the homeland came over there with the immigrants, and
traditionally smoked chipotles were part of those methods.

So around here, only recently were the smoked peppers in adobo called
"chipotles". They were called "smoked peppers in adobo" until all
those cooking shows found a couple of brands with "chipotle" on their
cans. I have even found recipes on the net for making homemade
chipotles using the pickled japs (escabeche style) as the peppers!
Why would you smoke a pickled pepper?

Folks around here go for the heat and not for the other flavors. For
example; say you made a pot of beans, and want that smoky pepper spice
in it. You don't get a can of peppers in adobo, you go to the
cabinet and get your bottle of lightly ground smoked japs and use it.
No vinegar, tomato or anything else is added to the beans. Just a
little heat and smoke.

> For sauces etc. where I need a larger amount I can get chipotle powder and
> sometimes whole chipotle from Planters Seed Co.http://plantersseed.com/

I haven't seen them before. How is their ground chipotle? Smoky?
Smoky enough that you don't lose the punch in a recipe?

The prices don't look bad if they are a good product.

Thanks for the link!

Robert

On 31-Mar-2008, "
> wrote:

> On Mar 31, 9:02 am, "Nunya Bidnits"
> > wrote:
>
>
> > You're making chipotle! Are you using red ripened japs?
> > That's the only way
> > I've done it.

<serious snipping here>

>
> > For sauces etc. where I need a larger amount I can get
> > chipotle powder and
> > sometimes whole chipotle from Planters Seed
> > Co.http://plantersseed.com/
>
> I haven't seen them before. How is their ground chipotle?
> Smoky?
> Smoky enough that you don't lose the punch in a recipe?
>
> The prices don't look bad if they are a good product.
>
> Thanks for the link!
>
> Robert

Plantersseed is a new one for me too Robert. I get my pepper
products from sweetfreedomfarm.com. I use a lot of their
Ancho
and New Mexican Red. I do have serrano and chipotle as well.
The prices are so reasonable, there's no reason to NOT have
a variety on hand.

Brick(Just treading water here)

" > wrote in news:c9956f70-
:

> Why would you smoke a pickled pepper?
>

Don't know? but i once picked a peck of pickeled peppers.

How long does it take to smoke the peppers roughly?

All this talk of smoked ground peppers has me wanting to try.


--
Tommy Lee

On Mar 31, 7:26 pm, wrote:

> Plantersseed is a new one for me too Robert. I get my pepper
> products from sweetfreedomfarm.com. I use a lot of their
> Ancho
> and New Mexican Red.

Wow. Another great link for the hot stuff. I am wondering though,
they are so inexpensive, are those website prices still valid? They
almost seem cheap when looking at their prices.

And of course, the bigger question, how fresh are their peppers? All
of your dried peppers will have a certain pungency to them, some more
than others. When you take a careful whiff, you should be overwhelmed
with that pungent smell. Now add some smoke....

Speaking of smoke, their ground chipotle looks really cheap. Soo.....
is it really pungent and smoky?

Thanks for the link - there is no such thing as too many chili pepper
sources! I use a lot of ground chilies, and for a lot of different
recipes. I use dried ancho and cayenne in homemade ranch style
beans. I use chipotle on anything I can get away with, including
deviled eggs So I am always looking for new flavors.

Robert

On Mar 31, 7:32 pm, motley me > wrote:

> How long does it take to smoke the peppers roughly?

A peck of them?

> All this talk of smoked ground peppers has me wanting to try.

Seriously, it is easy to do.

Method #1:

Cut the peppers up into little wheels and put them on a cheap non
stick backing sheet (hello, Big Lots) and put them on one layer deep.
A little overlap is OK. Depending on how thick you cut your little
wheels and how hot your fire is, you can plan anywhere from 3-4 hours
to get them just below crispy. They will turn all kind of nice
colors, but will wind up about the color of dark chocolate.

Take them of the fire, let them sit inside for an hour to cool, then
grind or store as desired.

Method #2:

Perfect when making butts or brisket. Take whole peppers and slice
them lengthwise, but not all the way through. You are cutting a long
slit the length of the pepper in order to allow the moisture out and
to speed cooking as well as allowing better penetration of the smoke.
Scatter these over your baking sheet, and smoke. Whole peppers like
this take about 6, but maybe as many as 8 to get where they need to
be.

Take them off the fire to cool, and for some reason, the whole peppers
need to sit a while longer than the sliced to get to the point where
they will grind properly. About an hour and a half to two will do it.

You can grind these, but I leave them whole as they seem to retain
their flavor longer. When I am ready to use them I grind them in an
old whirly coffee maker or rough chop with a big knife.

******

For both of these methods, the end result is about the same. The
reward? Wow. Home smoked over oak/mesquite or your favorite wood
combo will give you an incredible flavor.

A couple of notes:

- Don't bother doing this over charcoal. Not enough smoke to
penetrate the wet skin well

- Don't dry on a regular pan as the peppers will stick like glue if
there isn't non stick coating

- Don't spray or oil the surface, as it will introduce oil to your
dried bits of heaven. Make sure the contact surface is very clean

- Store them in the refrigerator in a <tightly> sealed bottle or jar.
They seem to last forever with little care

- Almost without fail, any pepper is 10% meat to 10% water. So
roughly figure what your yield will be on 90% reduction of mass

- Using that same formula as above, compute how much hotter the end
product will be than the raw, green, hydrated stuff. Be careful when
starting out

I assure you it is well worth the effort, and for me, when I got my
WSM several months ago, I don't even wait for a brisket or butt. The
WSM is so stingy on fuel that it takes nothing for a 6 - 8 hour wood
smoke. Whenever the pepper crops come in and they are 2 - 3 lbs (or
more!) for a dollar, I crank up and get smokin'.

Robert

On 31-Mar-2008, "
> wrote:

> On Mar 31, 7:26 pm, wrote:
>
> > Plantersseed is a new one for me too Robert. I get my
> > pepper
> > products from sweetfreedomfarm.com. I use a lot of their
> > Ancho
> > and New Mexican Red.
>
> Wow. Another great link for the hot stuff. I am
> wondering though,
> they are so inexpensive, are those website prices still
> valid? They
> almost seem cheap when looking at their prices.
>
> And of course, the bigger question, how fresh are their
> peppers? All
> of your dried peppers will have a certain pungency to
> them, some more
> than others. When you take a careful whiff, you should be
> overwhelmed
> with that pungent smell. Now add some smoke....
>
> Speaking of smoke, their ground chipotle looks really
> cheap. Soo.....
> is it really pungent and smoky?
>
> Thanks for the link - there is no such thing as too many
> chili pepper
> sources! I use a lot of ground chilies, and for a lot of
> different
> recipes. I use dried ancho and cayenne in homemade ranch
> style
> beans. I use chipotle on anything I can get away with,
> including
> deviled eggs So I am always looking for new flavors.
>
> Robert

I could pontificate all day about the quality of various
spice
sources, but in this case your best bet is to pick out a few
1/4lb packages and try them out for yourself. You can
believe
those prices. I've been buying from them as well as Penzey's
and Pendery's for several years. I've never had reason to
complain about any of them. At first, I fell into the trap
of buying
1 lb packages of everything, mostly because the prices were
so
good. Believe me, a pound of pepper is a hell of a lot of
pepper.
One tip I can give you is to take advantage of quantity
purchases
for shipping advantage. You can't make out by buying just
one
4 Oz package.

One other thing. Penzey's has a slick catalog and an overall
slicker presence then either Pendery's or Sweetfreedomfarm,
but the others provide equal quality in my opinion and much
better prices. One more link you might use is
"chiliplants.com".
They're a great source for live plants and this is the right
time
of year to be ordering them. (They may spell chile with an
'e'
so watch it.)
--
Brick(Youth is wasted on young people)

On Mar 31, 10:21 pm, "Brick" > wrote:

At first, I fell into the trap
> of buying
> 1 lb packages of everything, mostly because the prices were
> so
> good. Believe me, a pound of pepper is a hell of a lot of
> pepper.

A pound is a lot. I use about a pound to a pound and a half of plain
ground red chilies a year for everything I make. But as for the rest
of them, not <nearly> as much. Of course we also use a lot of fresh
here due to its availability.

And of course our big locally owned chain keeps many of these dried
peppers in the produce isle almost all year round: cascabel, piquins,
ancho, pasillas (mainly for sauces), chili de arbol, New Mexico red
(seasonal), japanese (VERY popular and look like chili de arbol), and
from time to time others that are marked with names that I don't
remember the names of (meaning I don't use them, either).

Due to the proximity to the border, we also get different Mexican
chilies that come our way, but they are more of a treat than a
regularity. We have large Mexican farmer's market that just opened up
I have yet to go to in town, and I'll bet there are more kinds down
there I haven't tried as well.

All of that is a really good thing for me because as you can probably
tell I really like that stuff.

> One tip I can give you is to take advantage of quantity
> purchases
> for shipping advantage. You can't make out by buying just
> one
> 4 Oz package.

I can't imagine buying 4 oz. of ground peppers from a spice store and
stopping there. I'll bet if one looked hard enough you might find it
was a law that you had to have about a pound or so of spices on every
order. ;^)


> One other thing. Penzey's has a slick catalog and an overall
> slicker presence then either Pendery's or Sweetfreedomfarm,
> but the others provide equal quality in my opinion and much
> better prices.

<<Thanks>> for the heads up. Nothing in the world beats hands no
experience. There was certainly the *wow* factor in Penzey's, and it
is like Marty described when referring to his favorite spice place. I
just wanted to sit down and take it all in.

Folks just don't realize how badly they shortchange themselves when
they buy low quality or old spices from bad sources (like the
supermarket!) that are usually collected from floor sweepings.

Luckily, growing up in San Antonio high quality fresh spices were
always easy to get, even a hundred years ago. This original, one of a
kind plant is 10 minutes from my house:

http://www.fiestaspices.com/?page=index

About three years ago I had my crew out repairing a building NEXT DOOR
to this place when it was grinding day for onions and garlic. My
goodness.... then it was black pepper day... Oh my.... and my mouth
watered all day when were around that place.

But you know, they don't have all the spices. And they have shifted
their business model to make more mixed seasonings and rubs so single
spices aren't a major portion of their product line anymore. Check it
out:

http://www.fiestaspices.com/?page=product_index

Their online prices don't look that good, but on a local level they
package their products to be competitive and they do a good job with
it.

While you are there, if you are interested there are some good South
Texas Style recipes on the left in their recipe section.

>One more link you might use is
> "chiliplants.com".
> They're a great source for live plants and this is the right
> time
> of year to be ordering them. (They may spell chile with an
> 'e'
> so watch it.)

Got it! I am off to see "chiliplants" after I send this. Once again,
thanks for yet another link.

Robert

On Apr 1, 9:05 am, "Nunya Bidnits" > wrote:

> Chile Ancho Paste
> Enough dried anchos to nearly fill a blender
> juice of 1 lime
> 2 tbsp ground comino
> 1 tbsp oregano, pref mexican
> 4 cloves of fresh garlic
>
> Toast the anchos in a hot dry skillet, turning often, until softened and
> fragrant, but do not burn.
> Put anchos and the rest of the ingredients in a blender with enough very hot
> water to cover and let stand 30-60 minutes.
> Blend until it forms a smooth thick liquid.

I like the recipe. It is similar to a lot of bases for different
dishes I am familiar with, not the least being "puerco rojo", or "red
pork". Your base is a <perfect> sauce for that, as it is written.
Probably a little salt and pepper, and that's done.

With the peppers toasted properly, and a tablespoon of creamy peanut
butter added, you have a damn fine version of a mole sauces, too.
Stew or bake a chicken, then ladle this stuff on top as a finishing
sauce. Oh, man!

I like the touch of toasting the anchos in a hot dry skillet. And of
course, when you are finishes with the peppers and take them out,
toast whole cumin seed next, about 25% more than you would use pre-
ground. Grind the seeds in an old coffee mill. Fresh toasted cumin
is another excellent addition to any dish that has plain ground cumin
it. It is night and day different to even the freshly ground whole
seeds.

> Same here, gonna check it out. The greenhouse suppliers of bedding plants
> around here get worse every year about mislabeling chile plants. The last
> time around I found at least 25 % of the bedding plants were incorrectly
> labeled. A few major greenhouses supply most of the lawn and gardens around
> here, so its hard to get away from the stupidity.

Even in this chili laden area, it happens all the time, and for
exactly the same reason. We have 3 or four nurseries that supply
everyone from the big box home improvement stores on down. Our local
nurseries outlets are supplied by them as well.

I have planted my peppers expecting cayenne only to get bannana.
Worse, we have 3 different speeds of jalapeno here, and I like the mid
heat as a side with my barbecue and sandwiches, and the "hot" for my
sauces and cooking. So when the kids at Lowes or HD are sweeping up
at night and the mix up the little plastic tabs, you never know which
ones you get. As far as the mild japs go, they are pretty pointless
to me, so if I get a 6 pack of those it really ****es me off.

But they do the same with tomatoes as well. I have about 18 plants in
this year, and like always you don't really know what you have until
they start producing. I am hoping I got what I wanted, but who
knows. I am careful to try to get to the store early and select from
the middle of the flats to get plants that haven't been mixed up.

They are right more than they are wrong, which is all that keeps me
from planting from seed.

This has turned into an interesting thread.

Robert

motley me wrote:
> " > wrote in news:c9956f70-
> :
>
>
>>Why would you smoke a pickled pepper?
>>
>
>
> Don't know? but i once picked a peck of pickeled peppers.
>
> How long does it take to smoke the peppers roughly?
>
> All this talk of smoked ground peppers has me wanting to try.
>
>


I don't smoke pickled peppers. I do smoke Jalapeno's, Serrano's and
Habanero's.

Cut the tops off. Cut the Jalapeno's in half length wise. Clean out the
Jalapeno's. Don't worry about getting perfect. Just scrape out the
loosest stuff. Since the Serrano's and Habs are already so small, I
don't bother with cutting in half. Just cut top off.

Lay peppers on grate so they are not on top of each other. Smoke dry
them over lump and your favorite wood for 8 - 12 hours. I use hickory.
I try to keep the grate temp at 180 - 200°. Due to the shorter days, if
I am doing this in December, I will smoke them closer to 8 hours and
finish on a dehydrator, if needed. Summer months, if I start early
enough in the AM, I will go towards the 12 hours.

Let cool a bit and grind up. I bought a very small food processor for
this task. Grind up till pulverised. The Habs may turn to a powder
because of their thin skin. If your going to combine them all for a
blend, make sure you mix well to get the Habs distributed evenly.

It's very easy, but does take all day. Enjoy.

BBQ

On Apr 1, 12:39 pm, "Nunya Bidnits" > wrote:

> Well you hit that pretty much dead on. I make "pork steaks in red chile
> sauce", and that's the base, but it gets some tomatoes, garlic, ground
> comino, chipotle powder, onions browned when I brown the pork steaks, and
> some chicken broth, and some roasted green chiles at the end if I feel
> fancy. Simmer the browned steaks and onions for a couple hours until falling
> apart. I have the meat dept at the grocer cut them for me 1 1/4 thick.

Well sir, I don't know how these recipes migrated that far away from
their home, but you are probably cooking in a more traditional fashion
than most folks are around here! If you post your recipe for green
pepper/tomatillo roasted pork, I'll fall out of my chair!

For me, I like to make my puerco out of loin chops (now, $1.98 per
pound at Sam's) that I debone. Cheap, easy to find, and enough fat to
have plenty of flavor. Tried it with pork loin, but it wound up more
like beef roast bits. Like a lot of "traditional" recipes from
different cultures, they are tailored for everyday cooking and
everyday budgets. The cheaper cuts of meat for this work much better
for me than more expensive one.

> > With the peppers toasted properly, and a tablespoon of creamy peanut
> > butter added, you have a damn fine version of a mole sauces, too.
>
> Hmm, never thought of the peanut butter! I use that mexican peanut stuff to
> make mole,

I'll bet I know what you are talking about, and I don't use that stuff
because it has unknown spices in it, and it is too oily for me.

Around here, there is a constant struggle to validate whose
grandmother made the best mole. They start with a base which is
usually (but not always) some kind of roasted peppers (not hot) and
some kind of liquid like tomato sauce or chicken broth depending on
whose abuelita they are imitating. Carmelized onions are usually in
the mix. A big item for the families from the interior of Mexico is
to add unsweetened/sweetened dark baker's chocolate. The peanut
butter is from another region, and some like it and some don't. I
have the luxury of liking both. Some add freshly ground espresso
sized coffee (almost powder) to the mix. Good mole recipes are like
good chili recipes. Everyone knows what is in them, but the amounts,
cook times, etc. are pretty well guarded for the best of them.

The moles I am familiar with are anywhere from a mahogany color to the
color of dark chocolate. No two are alike, so sadly, a guy is put in
the position of trying as many as he can to try to get a handle on
what he likes. It is daunting, but I persevere.

> I wouldn't think they could get away with that in your neck of the woods and
> its surprising that there are so few growers of bedding plants in an area
> where peppers grow so well. On the other hand, in your climate you can get
> away with just throwing the seed right into the ground and thinning as it
> comes up.

You are right about that. Most of the plants grown here go
elsewhere. Lone Star growers is about a 5,000 acre facility with
about 1200 of it being covered. It is quite impressive, especially
from the air. They sell under the Lone Star Growers name, but also as
Color Spot, who owns them now. You can tour the facility (of course I
have!) but they will no sell to the general public.

What really stinks for me is that our largest local nursery was
purchased by a national group, and the now treat us like we were in
other parts of the country.

With careful timing and a little bit of luck, you can get two growing
seasons of tomatoes. If we have a mild summer, which is about every
4th one, it is a cinch. You can be in the ground by the end of
February, and only face a 50/50 chance of a killing freeze. At $1.50
for six plants, I'll take the chance. So that means you will have
your second season in the ground before the really hot weather starts.

But since that is not the case in other places, they quit selling
plants in the last part of April, to early May. One season is all we
get on tomatoes. So that is why I was looking hard at the urls that
you and Brick put up. If it looks like we will a milder summer (not
past 100 too many days in a row) I will need to start some plants from
seed. A reputable seed dealer is a must.

For the peppers, it really doesn't matter when they go in as they are
pretty resistant to everything once they get started. Even in the
really hot summers they still do OK, they just stall out on
production. When the weather starts to get milder in the fall, they
start up again.


I used to start from seed around here, usually with seeds from
> Redwood, but to get the bedders in the ground in time you have to start
> early with grow lights that can be adjusted for height, repot them at least
> once indoors if you want big healthy plants by late april, and a big old
> indoor mess that I finally abandoned. I did win a bunch of ribbons with the
> peppers I grew from Redwood

Hey... you may be more of a pepper head than I am! Ribbons? What
kind of pepper did you grow to get them?

>and you just can't get the interesting stuff
> from the nurseries around here, but any more all I want is good stuff to
> cook with.

Ditto.

> > This has turned into an interesting thread.
>
> Yeah, us pepper freaks are at it again!

I'm telling you, either you get it or you don't. The pepper/chili/
heat guys are every bit as rabid about what they do and make as any
barbecue guy, coffee aficionado, sports freak, or anybody else that
obsesses over things.

Robert

On 1-Apr-2008, "Nunya Bidnits" >
wrote:

> > wrote
>

<major snippage>

> >
> > Got it! I am off to see "chiliplants" after I send
> > this. Once again,
> > thanks for yet another link.
>
> Same here, gonna check it out. The greenhouse suppliers of
> bedding plants
> around here get worse every year about mislabeling chile
> plants. The last
> time around I found at least 25 % of the bedding plants
> were incorrectly
> labeled. A few major greenhouses supply most of the lawn
> and gardens around
> here, so its hard to get away from the stupidity.
>
> MartyB in KC

Who would have guessed that it takes a bunch of New Jersey
Yankees to get it right?

I grew plants from Cross Country Nurseries for two or three
years.
I think Nick Cramer grew some of them too.

I was impressed with their packaging. I never lost a plant.
(About
the only luck I had for several years.)

--
Brick(Youth is wasted on young people)

On Apr 1, 9:47 pm, "Brick" > wrote:

> Who would have guessed that it takes a bunch of New Jersey
> Yankees to get it right?

Hey Brick, don't think the eye-ron-eee was lost on me. What in the
hell is going on that we don't have those cool places to buy locally?

Beats the hell out of me.

But at the chance of losing a good link for peppers no matter where
they are from, (even if north of the Mason/Dixon!) I have them
bookmarked! We have <nothing> locally or even close with that kind of
selection of pepper plants.

I honestly didn't know the hot stuff was that popular up north except
in a few places. New Jersey? Who da thunk it?

Robert

On 1-Apr-2008, "
> wrote:

> X-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2008 00:17:07 EDT
> (nwrddc02.gnilink.net)
>
> On Apr 1, 9:47 pm, "Brick" >
> wrote:
>
> > Who would have guessed that it takes a bunch of New
> > Jersey
> > Yankees to get it right?
>
> Hey Brick, don't think the eye-ron-eee was lost on me.
> What in the
> hell is going on that we don't have those cool places to
> buy locally?
>
> Beats the hell out of me.
>
> But at the chance of losing a good link for peppers no
> matter where
> they are from, (even if north of the Mason/Dixon!) I have
> them
> bookmarked! We have <nothing> locally or even close with
> that kind of
> selection of pepper plants.
>
> I honestly didn't know the hot stuff was that popular up
> north except
> in a few places. New Jersey? Who da thunk it?
>
> Robert

If you actually watch the TV media with only one eye and
look at your friends and neighbors for who they really are
you will come to understand that there are Americans and
people who wish to exploit Americans. Unfortunately, those
who wish to exploit Americans are the selfsame ones who
run for public office.

--
Brick(Youth is wasted on young people)

"Brick" > wrote:
> On 1-Apr-2008, "Nunya Bidnits" >
> > > wrote
> <major snippage>
> I grew plants from Cross Country Nurseries for two or three
> years. I think Nick Cramer grew some of them too.
>
> I was impressed with their packaging. I never lost a plant.
> (About the only luck I had for several years.)

That is correct, Dr. Bricker. I ordered a half dozen tomato and a half
dozen chile plants. They all arrived fine and produced nicely, although the
bugs and other critters got most of the toms. The chile plants didn't make
it through the winter. ;-(

--
Nick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families!
I've known US vets who served as far back as the Spanish American War. They
are all my heroes! Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not
forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~

On Apr 1, 11:35 pm, "Brick" > wrote:

> If you actually watch the TV media with only one eye and
> look at your friends and neighbors for who they really are
> you will come to understand that there are Americans and
> people who wish to exploit Americans.

Hmm....

I hope you know >> I << was kidding.

I don't give one shit less where someone is from, what color they are,
or which God they subscribe to.

Living and growing up in a military town with (at one time) with FIVE
bases here, you can only imagine what a melting pot we have here for
citizenry.

Amazingly in our area of the south, we laugh like hell at each other's
race, creed, etc., once we get to know one another. Just low brow
folks having some fun. Pretty much none of us around here care what
stripe anyone else is. With all the many generations of war brides,
all the "I was based overseas brides", and the huge latino population
(almost 70%!) none of us notice mixed race couples, mixed national
couples, etc.

Around here, we try to celebrate the differences of one another, not
dwell on them.

HOWEVER, we have noticed that with our imports from other states, we
are having to learn political correctness, special awareness and needs
of others that aren't like us, and that does indeed include curbing
our joking references to the North/South unpleasantness of a century
and a half ago.

Gotta tell ya, Texas was a lot more fun 25 years ago.

I try not to think much of the politicians and their agendas. They do
not represent me, have not represented me, and probably never will.

I wish others didn't listen to them and get so rabid about their
beliefs, thinking any of those jackasses might care about them.

But some folks are still so stupid they they believe the rotten spew
political candidates vomit at will to get their way. And the
politicians know just how to exploit those people. Sad.

Robert

" > wrote:
> On Apr 1, 11:35 pm, "Brick" > wrote:
>
> > If you actually watch the TV media with only one eye and
> > look at your friends and neighbors for who they really are
> > you will come to understand that there are Americans and
> > people who wish to exploit Americans.
>
> Hmm....
>
> I hope you know >> I << was kidding.
>
> I don't give one shit less where someone is from, what color they are,
> or which God they subscribe to.

Including none.

> Living and growing up in a military town with (at one time) with FIVE
> bases here, you can only imagine what a melting pot we have here for
> citizenry.
>
> Amazingly in our area of the south, we laugh like hell at each other's
> race, creed, etc., once we get to know one another. Just low brow
> folks having some fun. Pretty much none of us around here care what
> stripe anyone else is. With all the many generations of war brides,
> all the "I was based overseas brides", and the huge latino population
> (almost 70%!) none of us notice mixed race couples, mixed national
> couples, etc.

Where I grew up in da Bronx, the neighborhood kids were a mix of Micks,
Krauts, Squareheads, Pollocks and Wops. We all had a lot of fun together.

> Around here, we try to celebrate the differences of one another, not
> dwell on them.
>
> HOWEVER, we have noticed that with our imports from other states, we
> are having to learn political correctness, special awareness and needs
> of others that aren't like us, and that does indeed include curbing
> our joking references to the North/South unpleasantness of a century
> and a half ago.

**** 'em if they can't laugh at themselves!

> Gotta tell ya, Texas was a lot more fun 25 years ago.
>
> I try not to think much of the politicians and their agendas. They do
> not represent me, have not represented me, and probably never will.
>
> I wish others didn't listen to them and get so rabid about their
> beliefs, thinking any of those jackasses might care about them.
>
> But some folks are still so stupid they they believe the rotten spew
> political candidates vomit at will to get their way. And the
> politicians know just how to exploit those people. Sad.

Most politicians are whores and whore mongerers.

--
Nick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families!
I've known US vets who served as far back as the Spanish American War. They
are all my heroes! Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not
forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~

wrote:
> On Apr 1, 11:35 pm, "Brick" > wrote:

snip

> HOWEVER, we have noticed that with our imports from other states, we
> are having to learn political correctness, special awareness and needs
> of others that aren't like us, and that does indeed include curbing
> our joking references to the North/South unpleasantness of a century
> and a half ago.

More are coming. The way things are going in places like Michigan ,
we can expect another influx like we had in the late 70s.

> Gotta tell ya, Texas was a lot more fun 25 years ago.

True Dat. Back in the 70s - early 80s we got about 10,000 or so from Detroit
over here in the Dallas area. They brought some good things, (alcohol
sales),
and some not so good things; (like the foreign idea that driving while
drinking
that newly legal bottle of beer was a bad idea)
>
> I try not to think much of the politicians and their agendas. They do
> not represent me, have not represented me, and probably never will.
>
> I wish others didn't listen to them and get so rabid about their
> beliefs, thinking any of those jackasses might care about them.
>
> But some folks are still so stupid they believe the rotten spew
> political candidates vomit at will to get their way. And the
> politicians know just how to exploit those people. Sad.
>
> Robert

On 2-Apr-2008, "
> wrote:

> On Apr 1, 11:35 pm, "Brick" >
> wrote:
>
> > If you actually watch the TV media with only one eye and
> > look at your friends and neighbors for who they really
> > are
> > you will come to understand that there are Americans and
> > people who wish to exploit Americans.
>
> Hmm....
>
> I hope you know >> I << was kidding.
>
> I don't give one shit less where someone is from, what
> color they are,
> or which God they subscribe to.
>
> Living and growing up in a military town with (at one
> time) with FIVE
> bases here, you can only imagine what a melting pot we
> have here for
> citizenry.

< more snippage>

I was just making an observation Robert, rather then
pointing a
finger.

Concerning your comment about five basis, you must be a
young
fella. The first time I visited Lackland (1955), there were
nine bases in
San Antonio. I can only remember seven of them right off
hand;
Lackland, Kelly, Brooks, Randolf, Ft Sam Houston, Medina and

Camp Bullis.

The Longhorn Saloon was still on the downtown main drag just
up
the street from the Alamo and Tony's spit shine was always
my
first pitstop when I got to town.

The Four Brothers Cafe (Steakhouse and *** bar) was at 127
South Street, just about two blocks from the Alamo for the
best
steak in town for a dollar a pound. They
had pasta on the menu too, but they didn't serve anything
except
steak. That whole area was razed for the Hemisfair. I was
stationed
no less then six times in San Antonio. Always Security Hill
for duty
or Lackland for school.

--
Brick(Youth is wasted on young people)

On Apr 2, 9:37 pm, "Brick" > wrote:

> I was just making an observation Robert, rather then
> pointing a
> finger.

Gotcha. For the record, I certainly agree with your observation about
110%.

> Concerning your comment about five basis, you must be a
> young
> fella.

Just a nipper of 51!

>The first time I visited Lackland (1955), there were
> nine bases in
> San Antonio. I can only remember seven of them right off
> hand;
> Lackland, Kelly, Brooks, Randolf, Ft Sam Houston, Medina and
>
> Camp Bullis.

Don't know all nine, but I always looked at Medina and Camp Bullis as
training and storage facilities, not as deployment bases. Medina is
closed, and Camp Bullis is still training. As a sidebar, we had so
many military folks associated with our boy scout troop, we used to
camp out on the untouched part of Bullis in the 60s. It was in the
middle of nowhere then, and I mean nowhere. Now houses are on two
sides of it, literally a hundred yards from the fence.

Sittin' here scratchin' my head... I can't for the life of me think of
another military facility.

> That whole area was razed for the Hemisfair.

If you haven't been here for a while, you wouldn't recognize the
city. They have added miles to the riverwalk and are adding more.
There are many luxury hotels downtown now, and the old theaters from
the 20s have been completely restored and serve as specialty venues.
The dome that was built about 15 years ago has actually paid for
itself, and it has been so successful that they have taken the old
Union Pacific train station and made it into office space and meeting
areas.

The Joe and Harry Coliseum built in 1950 has the AT&T center in its
parking lot to host the Spurs basketball team.

It isn't the quiet, sleepy little town I grew up in, that's for sure.
In one way I miss that, and in another I don't.

>I was
> stationed
> no less then six times in San Antonio. Always Security Hill
> for duty
> or Lackland for school.

When was the last time you were here?

Robert

On 3-Apr-2008, "
> wrote:

> On Apr 2, 9:37 pm, "Brick" >
> wrote:
>
> > I was just making an observation Robert, rather then
> > pointing a
> > finger.

<snip a bunch more>

> >I was
> > stationed
> > no less then six times in San Antonio. Always Security
> > Hill
> > for duty
> > or Lackland for school.
>
> When was the last time you were here?
>
> Robert

Wow, how time flies. My twin boys were born at Wilford Hall
October 29, 1964. I was drunker then Cooter Brown when the
wife went into labor about midnight. I woke up the guy next
door
and conned him into driving the wife to Wilford Hall in my
then
brand new '65 Chevelle Supersport. I remember it like it was

yesterday. He was so scared she'd have it in the car he was
still burning rubber when the sound faded out of hearing. I
left for Germany around the last of December and can't
recollect ever going back. (Did I mention that Chevelle
would
run)

--
Brick(Youth is wasted on young people)

On Apr 2, 12:37 pm, "Nunya Bidnits" > wrote:

> Still raining down there? <g>

Hey, I missed this great post because we had a dry day! Got in a full
ten hours for a change and it was great.

> Ever grow the ones with the purple husks? They are the best I have had.

I have seen them in the gourmet stores, but never grown them. We just
have the common green paper husked type around here.

> There is some kind of fly around here that lays eggs in the tomatillo
> flower. The fruit grows up around it and the larvae eats its way out.

I think that is a type of fruit fly, but it could be just about
anything. I had that same problem with my tomatoes, but then went to
dusting them once a week with Sevin dust, and that took care of it.

> But when I have had a good harvest or
> crop in the store it usually goes into green salsa. But why don't you post
> that recipe because it sounds great!

I'll dig it out and post it.



>
> When I was a kid there was a Mexican restaurant in the neighborhood that,
> way out of character, served a traditional Mexican style chili, in soupy
> brown broth, with chunks of pork, pieces of roasted green chilis and other
> vegetables, light on the beans, and tortillas on the side. Very rare in
> South KC in the 60s and early 70s. I would go in there after school, even
> when I was in grade school, for an after school treat of their chili. I've
> been chasing the dream ever since.

What a treat. Most folks don't know that the traditional chili isn't
a thick, tomato and bean ridden mess with sour cream on it. Many of
the chili recipes I have tasted rely on the chili pods only as the
thickening agent. Good stuff.

> I would have preferred to have learned
> by watching the abuelitas cookin in their own kitchens, but I managed to
> find my way somewhat.

It is a tremendous help, although they don't share much most of the
time. And most (I cook the same way) start out with the basic
ingredients and methods, and then just adjust until done. That way
you can adjust the recipe to the quality/strength/taste of the
ingredients.

But try as I might, I cannot learn nor evidently be taught how to make
a light, pillowy flour tortilla. I make all manner of Mexican/Latin
foods, but the tortilla is a staple, and I can't get it right. I have
made some good ones, but can't get any kind of consistency.

> Here are a few good books that combine good knowledge of the sweet hot fruit
> with good cooking:
>
> Peppers The Domesticated Capsicums by Jean Andrews (THE authoritative
> botanical guide!)
>
> Jane Butel's Southwestern Grill by Jane Butrel with Gordon McMeen
>
> Great Green Chili Cooking from the Albuquerque Tribune
>
> Chili Lovers Cook Book by Al Fischer and Mildred Fischer
>
> The Whole Chile Pepper Book by Dave DeWitt and Nancy Gerlach
>
> Peppers: Pickled, Sauces, and Salsas by Sue Dremann (from Redwood City Seed)
>
> and for some authoritative tomatillo information:
>
> Ground Cherries, Husk Tomatos, and Tomatillos by Craig Dremann (Redwood
> City)

Wow... thanks for the recommendations! I will be looking for those
soon as I want to start cooking with more hot stuff again. I messed
up my innards with too much of it, but now that things are healed up I
am ready to have a go at it, just going a little easier.

> Pork steaks are just band-saw sliced pork butts, that's about as cheap as it
> gets. I wait till they go on sale for somewhere between .99 and 1.20 a pound
> and have the butcher cut up a bunch for me extra thick.

You can tell this isn't pig country. I haven't ever seen them that
cheap. So, since you are in pig country, tell me this: what exactly
am I getting when I buy pork steak labeled "pork loin steak"? I can
see the loin in most of them, but occasionally I see (and buy) the
ones that look almost like a beef steak.

They are about roughly oval in shape, and they have light, consistent
marbling. Usually they are about 8 inches long, about 5 inches
across, and have a round bone about 1/3 of the way into the meat. The
bone is about half again the size of a quarter and is round. I always
thought they had cut up a picnic to make these.
In the package they are very consistent in size, and like I said they
look like a piece of round steak with a bone in it. Comments?


> You'll find a some restaurants around here offering mole, but it can get
> pretty scary. My rule of thumb is that if the folks in the restaurant speak
> good English, don't order the mole.

LMAO! No kidding! I couldn't agree more. I speak fluent spanish,
and most of the restaurants I go to when I really want some good eats
are "spanish only". It isn't unusual for me to be the only English
speaker in the joint.

> Ole'!

Thanks for the info. There used to be a couple of good private forums
on the net that did nothing but chat about chilis and their apparent
powers. I don't cook like most to them do, but that didn't lessen the
enjoyment. I like to eat a lot of chilis, so I don't hammer myself to
pieces with the heat. For many of them it was bragging rights to see
who had any colon left after a dish they concocted. But sadly, even
those are pretty much gone anymore.

Good to be in touch with another couple pepper heads.

Robert

wrote:
> On Apr 2, 12:37 pm, "Nunya Bidnits" > wrote:
>
>> Still raining down there? <g>
>
> Hey, I missed this great post because we had a dry day! Got in a full
> ten hours for a change and it was great.

snip

>
> But try as I might, I cannot learn nor evidently be taught how to make
> a light, pillowy flour tortilla. I make all manner of Mexican/Latin
> foods, but the tortilla is a staple, and I can't get it right. I have
> made some good ones, but can't get any kind of consistency.
>

For the best flour tortillas, just use your favorite pie dough recipe.

Use as much shortening as the recipe calls for water. (I use lard)
Use as much water as your recipe calls for Shortening.

Use a food processor to mix. (It's important for the formation of gluten)

It should be a real bitch to roll out. Use a 3/4 inch dowel - broom handle,
etc.

If it does not have the consistency of a rubber sheet, you used too much
fat.

On Apr 4, 12:09 pm, "Nunya Bidnits" > wrote:
> wrote:

> My chili base is the red chili ancho paste I posted earlier. Its still not
> the spicy brown broth of the traditional chili, but makes a rather thick
> chili. I brown onions, ground pork, ground beef, (or cubed pork and beef),
> add the red sauce, green chilis, chicken or vegetable broth, maybe some
> beer, garlic, comino, lime juice, some pinto beans, oregano (mexican or
> greek), salt and pepper. Maybe some roasted poblano, maybe some chopped
> serranos or japs. Maybe some chorizo to make it interesting. Oh yeah, and a
> few chopped tomatoes.

I'm just checking here... one more time.... are you sure you aren't
from Texas? Maybe even from the panhandle? There's got to be a
connection somewhere looking at your ingredient selection. I am
suspicious; you eat serranos and toast cumin...

> Or, I modify and use grilled chicken, less red chile, more green chile, plus
> poblanos, more chicken broth, black beans, and the other stuff for
> chicken/black bean chili. And whatever else of the stuff above smells good
> at the time.

That's the fun of non competition chili. You do whatever you want
with it based on what is on hand. All chili used to be like that,
just basically a stew. You would have had a great time here when
chili cookoffs were in vogue and held for charity events. About 30
years ago when I started going to the first ones, there were NO rules
about ingredients, judging, or anything else. The judges were local
celebrities, and they walked the fair grounds and tasted and drank
beer. Which ever one they liked won.

So there was judgin' chili, and there was eatin' chili. Besides beef
and pork chili, I have had chili made from bear, possum, squirrel,
rattlesnake (largest yearly rattlesnake hunt in the world is an hour
and a half from my house), elk, goat (actually cabrito) and all manner
and mix of those ingredients. Most of the contestants were hunters,
and they felt like their "camp chili" was the best ever, so they were
the contestants.

Some of it was perfect it was so good. Some of it was inedible.

> *If chili was supposed to be tomato based, it would be called tomati.*

I like that one!

>That abuelita principle actually describes how I cook pretty
> well. I don't use that many hard and fast recipes, but rather, I learn the
> basic techniques involved in creating a particular type of food
> construction, with the whys as well as the whats, and then I find I can
> create around that basic knowledge without scaring myself very often.

I cook the same way as well. I enjoy cooking, and have gone through
several phases of traditional Italian, Chinese (had to take a class on
that one), of course traditional Mexican, and traditional Southern
style cooking. You could spend your life doing nothing but Southern
cooking and never get it all. I am like a dog with a bone when I make
up a batch of homemade cornbread with smoked ham bits and jalepenos in
it.

I branch off, though. Last week we had cheese tortellinis with
sauteed eggplant and spinach, tossed with smoked shrimp, tossed with
garlic infused olive oil.

The week before I made a grilled chicken breast entree by marinating
the chicken breasts in balsamic vinegar and spices, then slit them
open and stuffed them with ricotta cheese, bread crumbs and chopped
spinach with lightly toasted garlic. The smoke added the right
touch. A spinach/egg salad with homemade dressing, and a quick side
of linguine in marinara, and that was good as well.

>That's
> probably why I don't bake much, a rocket science which requires precise
> adherence to recipes. At least for me.

I started making all kinds of breads a few years ago. I tossed,
threw, kneaded, proofed, and did all kinds of things for about 5
years. During the winter I was making as much as 8 loaves a weekend,
and we never had any left. Homemade bread ALWAYS has a home. I
probably put on 15 pounds, so I stopped. I have a killer recipe for a
traditional white Italian, but I only make that once in a while.


> But did I mention chili ancho chocolate chip cookies? <g>

Waitin' to see that recipe... ;^)

> The pork steaks have the characteristic T shaped bone from the pork butt. If
> pork butt goes on sale there cheaper than pork steak, just ask them for some
> sliced pork butt. <g>

I don't know if they would slice them and sell them as something else
or not. Frankly, I hadn't thought of that.

I have a standing arrangement with a couple of my friends, and we meet
once a week and have dinner and a few beers. Here's something we have
gone back to: lately our local supermarket has been having the
packages of "mixed chops" on sale pretty cheap. I like to cook them
the way I used to when they were really cheap and you could buy a
bucket of them for nothing.

These guys are about 3/8" or so of an inch thick, and some not even
that much. I spray them with quick dose of cooking spray, then coat
them with tabasco flavored lemon pepper and garlic granules. We make
a nice oak fire in the grill, and put these as far away from the fire
as we can to let them smoke a bit. I put a ton of them in there, and
leave them for about 45 minutes or so, moving them only once to make
sure they all get equal oak smoke. Then I move them closer to the
actual fire, and brown them for another 15 - 20 minutes.

We pull them off and eat them like fried chicken, usually several per
person. Add some garlic and onion mashed potatoes, homemade ranch
style beans and beer right out of the ice and you have one hell of a
meal.

I really have the best of the deal, too. None of my friends cook, and
they claim they never have home cooked meals, so they buy everything,
and all I have to do is show up and cook! They all like to eat
though, and they are in a great mood knowing they are going to be fed
well. I usually chip in if they will let me, but they buy enough so
that they have a lot of leftovers so they feel like they are the ones
getting ahead.

Someway it all works.

Robert

EMOVETHIS wrote:
> On 02 Apr 2008 07:51:38 GMT, Nick Cramer >

> >Most politicians are whores and whore mongerers.
>
> I know a number of working girls who'd be VERY offended at that
> comparison, Nick.

Denny. Prostitutes make a (usually verbal) contract to do certain things
for a certain price. Whores promise and take a lot and give little. Sounds
like most politicians to me!

--
Nick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families!
I've known US vets who served as far back as the Spanish American War. They
are all my heroes! Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not
forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~