I have bought a breadmaker on the promise that i'd be able to make a
pizza dough with it. As it went, I tried making bread and thought I'd
do the pizza later on. Anyhow, my attempts at making bread were not
successful though I followed the instructions to the letter (the bread
didn't rise well, was too solid, didn't taste good). I was also
dissatisfied with the amount of bread I could make in the breadmaker,
seemed too little. I also wasn't sure that it was economical if i
considered the costs of having a ~500w machine running for a few hours
on frequent basis.

I'm now considering making bread by hand. I like that the skill won't
be dependent on a machine, and I could make a larger quantity of bread,
as much as I could fit into my oven, which should be more.

I'm concerned about it being too time and effort consuming, but if i
make bread in larger quantities, for example if i do it once a week, it
could perhaps be worth it. I don't mind putting it in the fridge. I
could also sit on the floor in the living room with the large bowl and
listen to some audiobooks while mixing it by hand, or whatever. I'm
also concerned about the results being uneven, but I guess it will take
time to master any such manual skill.

Has anyone here moved from a breadmaker to doing bread by hand? What
was your experience?

I began doing bread by hand, and then used my Kitchenaid mixer to mix
the dough, which I then finished by hand. When I got a breadmaker I
began using it to mix the dough, which I then finished by hand. Now I
use the Kitchenaid to mix the dough unless I'm using the Kitchenaid for
something else at the time. If so, I use the breadmaker to mix the
dough. The long and short of it is that I no longer mix dough by hand,
and I NEVER use the breadmaker to do the entire breadmaking process.

> wrote in message
ups.com...
>
>>
> I'm concerned about it being too time and effort consuming, but if i
> make bread in larger quantities, for example if i do it once a week, it
> could perhaps be worth it. I don't mind putting it in the fridge.

NEVER store bread in the fridge. If you make several loaves, freeze the
excess. They take only a couple of hours at room temp to thaw.
Graham

> wrote in message
ups.com...

> Has anyone here moved from a breadmaker to doing bread by hand? What
> was your experience?
>

I started as a pre-teen making bread by hand. I got a bread machine and
after a few batches gave it away much for the same reasons you cite. Then I
started making dough with the Kitchen Aid stand mixer. I liked the mixer
overall, it gave good results in a short time with little effort. Next I
tried the food processor. I like the FP because it is very quick and unlike
the stand mixer, there is never a mess. The mixer can send flour all over
your kitchen if you aren't careful. However, it can make more dough in a
single batch than the FP. My method of choice is now the FP as I can make
enough dough for a dozen rolls, a couple of pizzas, or a loaf of bread in
under 5 minutes without any mess. If I were baking for a large family, I
would probably use the stand mixer.

I wouldn't mix dough in the living room, but that' just me. If nothing
else, you need to be standing up to knead dough. You should be using the
weight of your body, not the strength of your arms. You can't get good
leverage while sitting down.

Making bread is mostly technique and experience. Try some methods (hand,
mixer, or FP) and practice. See what works best for you. You can store
dough in the refrigerator for several days and bake it as needed. In fact,
up to a point, this will improve the flavor and texture of the bread. I
agree that you should not store baked goods in the refrigerator as they go
stale faster.

As for the bread machine, I'm sure that there are wonderful machines that
meet the needs of many people. They just don't make any sense for me.

On 5 Jan 2006 03:57:44 -0800
wrote:


> Anyhow, my attempts at making bread were not
> successful though I followed the instructions to the letter (the bread
> didn't rise well, was too solid, didn't taste good).


Too much flour. You're measuring inappropriately.

I'd venture a guess that you're scooping right out of the bag, which
guarantees that the flour is going to be somewhat packed.

I don't understand why people who have an interest in baking own these
things.

The bread machine is a perfect tool for someone who has no interest in
baking but who insists on having a little round loaf of fresh bread on
demand, along with the associated baking smells. It'd be great for that,
assuming it works reliably.

A lot of people will now defend their ownership of a bread machine as a
machine that they don't use to automatically make bread. Which i find
confusing. It can't be all that good as a stand mixer compared to, for
example, a 20 year old Bosch Universal picked up at a thrift store for $10.

Not that I'm bragging or anything. Now that i have a real income again i
really ought to upgrade.

Eric Jorgensen > wrote:
> The bread machine is a perfect tool for someone who has no interest in
>baking but who insists on having a little round loaf of fresh bread on
>demand, along with the associated baking smells. It'd be great for that,
>assuming it works reliably.

Yanno, I get really annoyed by comments like this. I'm a pretty good
baker, if I say so myself. I *can* make my own bread by hand.

I have a choice, though. I can make bread by hand twice a week, or I
can do the laundry, or make dinner, or make fresh cookies for the
kids' lunchboxes. I have shoulder problems, and if I choose to make
bread by hand, I cannot do -anything- else that involves shoulder/arm
action for about a day.

I own a bread machine. I use it 3 or 4 times a week. It makes good
bread, by which I mean that it's consistent from loaf to loaf, and
*MY KIDS LIKE IT* for their sandwiches. This last point is one of the
big reasons I use the machine. It costs a hell of a lot less than the
store bread that they will eat, and I don't have to buy 3-4 loaves and
keep them in the freezer. (and still have to run out to the store on
Sunday so there's bread for Monday's lunchboxes.)

I'd rather my family have a home-cooked dinner every night and
home-made cookies in their lunches than hand-made bread.


--
Jenn Ridley :

wrote:

>I have bought a breadmaker on the promise that i'd be able to make a
>pizza dough with it. As it went, I tried making bread and thought I'd
>do the pizza later on. Anyhow, my attempts at making bread were not
>successful though I followed the instructions to the letter (the bread
>didn't rise well, was too solid, didn't taste good).

Too much flour, not enough yeast (or not enough sugar for the yeast),
probably. Did you scoop the flour right out of the bag? That's bound
to give you trouble, as flour settles and you wound up with more flour
in the pan than the recipe can accomodate. Maybe not enough water.
Baking, especially bread, is not something you can do by 'following
instructions to the letter'. If it's dry, you need more water, if
it's damp you need less. If your yeast is old, you may need more of
it, or more sugar.

>I was also
>dissatisfied with the amount of bread I could make in the breadmaker,
>seemed too little.

A loaf of bread out of the bread machine lasts our family 2-3 days
(depending on how many people have a sandwich as an afternoon snack).
A storebought loaf of bread will last 3-4 days.

>I also wasn't sure that it was economical if i
>considered the costs of having a ~500w machine running for a few hours
>on frequent basis.

It's cheaper to run a bread machine than it is to run to the store and
buy a loaf of bread, even if you buy it on a regular shopping trip
(unless you can walk to the store). Yes, even including the cost of
electricity. (It only pulls 500W when it's actually mixing the bread.
The rest of the time it's pulling only enough to run the timer. When
it's baking, it probably pulls more, but less than an electric oven
would.)

I learned how to make bread by hand, and shifted to using a bread
machine when I blew out a shoulder, and kneading dough became out of
the question. You probably won't be able to make bread while you're
sitting on the floor in the living room, though. Kneading dough
requires lots of pushing down into the dough, and it's difficult to do
that while sitting on the floor.

Unbaked dough can easily be left in the fridge (covered) or baked
loaves put in the freezer. You could even half-bake a loaf, freeze
it, and then finish baking it later.
--
Jenn Ridley :

"Jenn Ridley" > wrote in message
...
> Eric Jorgensen > wrote:
>> The bread machine is a perfect tool for someone who has no interest in
>>baking but who insists on having a little round loaf of fresh bread on
>>demand, along with the associated baking smells. It'd be great for that,
>>assuming it works reliably.
>
> Yanno, I get really annoyed by comments like this. I'm a pretty good
> baker, if I say so myself. I *can* make my own bread by hand.
>
> I have a choice, though. I can make bread by hand twice a week, or I
> can do the laundry, or make dinner, or make fresh cookies for the
> kids' lunchboxes. I have shoulder problems, and if I choose to make
> bread by hand, I cannot do -anything- else that involves shoulder/arm
> action for about a day.
>
> I own a bread machine. I use it 3 or 4 times a week. It makes good
> bread, by which I mean that it's consistent from loaf to loaf, and
> *MY KIDS LIKE IT* for their sandwiches. This last point is one of the
> big reasons I use the machine. It costs a hell of a lot less than the
> store bread that they will eat, and I don't have to buy 3-4 loaves and
> keep them in the freezer. (and still have to run out to the store on
> Sunday so there's bread for Monday's lunchboxes.)
>
> I'd rather my family have a home-cooked dinner every night and
> home-made cookies in their lunches than hand-made bread.
> Jenn Ridley :

I'm with you Jenn. I have a bread maker that is going on 15 years old. It
makes great bread. I use the dough cycle more often. I also on occasion
make bread completely by hand. OK I use the KitchenAide mixer and then go
by hand from then on. A bread machine isn't a magic machine it does take a
little time to get to know it. To find the recipes with the amounts that
work perfectly for your machine. One does have to spend a little time in
the beginning of a cycle to make sure the dough is right before one runs off
to leave it to do what it does best. That 10-15 minutes of time will save
me 4 hours once I can leave the machine to make bread. It can really be a
time saver. I do know that some machines are better than others. My mom
bought one in the fall and though it made bread bread it did a lot of
rocking and rolling and threaten to jump off the counter with each loaf.
For Christmas she got a horizontal Zoji and it works great. We made bread
and pizza dough with success.

Lynne

"Jenn Ridley" > wrote in message
...
> Eric Jorgensen > wrote:
>> The bread machine is a perfect tool for someone who has no interest in
>>baking but who insists on having a little round loaf of fresh bread on
>>demand, along with the associated baking smells. It'd be great for that,
>>assuming it works reliably.
>
> Yanno, I get really annoyed by comments like this. I'm a pretty good
> baker, if I say so myself. I *can* make my own bread by hand.
>
>snip<

Count me in as an official "me, too". I don't have a stand mixer. I *do*
have a bread machine that was a gift from my mom. Why should I buy another
appliance for this job when I have one that works?

My kids don't like the bread when baked in the machine (too much crust, they
say), and I prefer to shape it into a longer loaf and bake it in my oven. I
get more slices that way, too. Yes, I know, same amount of bread, but more,
smaller slices are better for my large family than fewer, bigger slices.

I have found several store-bought mixes that my family likes, or I'll just
use one of the recipes that came with the machine, and just use the dough
setting. My favorite part is the timer feature, so I can set up the
ingredients in the morning, when I have more time, instead of realizing in
the midst of post-school activity rush that I need to make bread.

--
Wendy
http://griffinsflight.com/Quilting/quilt1.htm
un-STUFF email address to reply

wrote:

> I'm now considering making bread by hand. I like that the skill won't
> be dependent on a machine, and I could make a larger quantity of bread,
> as much as I could fit into my oven, which should be more.

Ah, breadmakers. Reminds me of this great new appliance
I saw on Saturday Night Live called "Mr Tea".

It's basically a funnel held up by a plastic stand. You
put your teabag into your teacup, place it under Mr
Tea's funnel, then pour the hot water into the Mr Tea
funnel. Voila, tea in your cup. Amazing.

Whenever I see a breadmaker I think "Mr Bread".

That said, here's a way you can have fresh baked bread
at home every day and only have to mix it twice a week,
which is where most of the work is. I like this method
better than trying to "keep" the baked bread by leaving it
out or freezing it, which I think diminishes the
quality too much.

Basically you mix the dough, put it in your pans,
then put them the fridge. If your fridge is at a
low enough temperature the fermentation will be
slow enough that they can be pulled out and baked
as needed over a period of a few days. There's
always a loaf in the fridge ready for the oven.
Here's what you do.

Mix your dough using a basic sponge method, then
load your pans. Bake one right away, cover the rest
in plastic wrap and put them in the fridge. Pan
#2 to gets baked off a day later, pan #3 gets
baked a day after that, etc.

The longer the dough stays in the fridge the
better the flavor and texture, but the oven spring
will diminish. I find they're good for up to 3 days,
generally, but on the next day they're still good for
things that don't require as much oven spring like
pizza dough and bread sticks.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

"frood" > wrote in message
...
> "Jenn Ridley" > wrote in message ...
> > Eric Jorgensen > wrote:
> >> The bread machine is a perfect tool for someone who has no interest
in
> >>baking but who insists on having a little round loaf of fresh bread on
> >>demand, along with the associated baking smells. It'd be great for that,
> >>assuming it works reliably.
> >
> > Yanno, I get really annoyed by comments like this. I'm a pretty good
> > baker, if I say so myself. I *can* make my own bread by hand.
> >
> >snip<
> news:kvlqr1d4mqqa4tpi7kn178f517q6o
>
> Count me in as an official "me, too". I don't have a stand mixer. I *do*
> have a bread machine that was a gift from my mom. Why should I buy another
> appliance for this job when I have one that works?

Let me know how well it makes cookies, pie pastry, whipped cearm, and
merangue. I would buy a bread maker that could do that - really I would.


>
> I have found several store-bought mixes that my family likes, or I'll just
> use one of the recipes that came with the machine, and just use the dough
> setting. My favorite part is the timer feature, so I can set up the
> ingredients in the morning, when I have more time, instead of realizing in
> the midst of post-school activity rush that I need to make bread.

Those mixes really are a god send. They spare you from getting the flour
from the pantry.

"King's Crown" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "Jenn Ridley" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Eric Jorgensen > wrote:
> >> The bread machine is a perfect tool for someone who has no interest
in
> >>baking but who insists on having a little round loaf of fresh bread on
> >>demand, along with the associated baking smells. It'd be great for that,
> >>assuming it works reliably.
> >
> > Yanno, I get really annoyed by comments like this. I'm a pretty good
> > baker, if I say so myself. I *can* make my own bread by hand.
> >
> > I have a choice, though. I can make bread by hand twice a week, or I
> > can do the laundry, or make dinner, or make fresh cookies for the
> > kids' lunchboxes. I have shoulder problems, and if I choose to make
> > bread by hand, I cannot do -anything- else that involves shoulder/arm
> > action for about a day.
> >
> > I own a bread machine. I use it 3 or 4 times a week. It makes good
> > bread, by which I mean that it's consistent from loaf to loaf, and
> > *MY KIDS LIKE IT* for their sandwiches. This last point is one of the
> > big reasons I use the machine. It costs a hell of a lot less than the
> > store bread that they will eat, and I don't have to buy 3-4 loaves and
> > keep them in the freezer. (and still have to run out to the store on
> > Sunday so there's bread for Monday's lunchboxes.)
> >
> > I'd rather my family have a home-cooked dinner every night and
> > home-made cookies in their lunches than hand-made bread.
> > Jenn Ridley :
>
> I'm with you Jenn. I have a bread maker that is going on 15 years old.
It
> makes great bread. I use the dough cycle more often. I also on occasion
> make bread completely by hand. OK I use the KitchenAide mixer and then go
> by hand from then on. A bread machine isn't a magic machine it does take
a
> little time to get to know it. To find the recipes with the amounts that
> work perfectly for your machine. One does have to spend a little time in
> the beginning of a cycle to make sure the dough is right before one runs
off
> to leave it to do what it does best. That 10-15 minutes of time will save
> me 4 hours once I can leave the machine to make bread. It can really be a
> time saver.

Time must work different where you live. I can make a batch of dough in
about 5 minutes in the FP. After that, it rises without any supervision for
a couple of hours. Then it takes about 5 minutes to make up the final
product. Another hour or so of unsupervised proofing and then into the
oven. So in total I might spend 15 hands-on minutes baking bread. I wish
that I could turn that 15 minutes into four "saved" hours, but honestly I
think you would have to change the rules of physics first.

"Vox Humana" > wrote in message
...
>
> "King's Crown" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
>>
>> "Jenn Ridley" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > Eric Jorgensen > wrote:
>> >> The bread machine is a perfect tool for someone who has no interest
> in
>> >>baking but who insists on having a little round loaf of fresh bread on
>> >>demand, along with the associated baking smells. It'd be great for
>> >>that,
>> >>assuming it works reliably.
>> >
>> > Yanno, I get really annoyed by comments like this. I'm a pretty good
>> > baker, if I say so myself. I *can* make my own bread by hand.
>> >
>> > I have a choice, though. I can make bread by hand twice a week, or I
>> > can do the laundry, or make dinner, or make fresh cookies for the
>> > kids' lunchboxes. I have shoulder problems, and if I choose to make
>> > bread by hand, I cannot do -anything- else that involves shoulder/arm
>> > action for about a day.
>> >
>> > I own a bread machine. I use it 3 or 4 times a week. It makes good
>> > bread, by which I mean that it's consistent from loaf to loaf, and
>> > *MY KIDS LIKE IT* for their sandwiches. This last point is one of the
>> > big reasons I use the machine. It costs a hell of a lot less than the
>> > store bread that they will eat, and I don't have to buy 3-4 loaves and
>> > keep them in the freezer. (and still have to run out to the store on
>> > Sunday so there's bread for Monday's lunchboxes.)
>> >
>> > I'd rather my family have a home-cooked dinner every night and
>> > home-made cookies in their lunches than hand-made bread.
>> > Jenn Ridley :
>>
>> I'm with you Jenn. I have a bread maker that is going on 15 years old.
> It
>> makes great bread. I use the dough cycle more often. I also on occasion
>> make bread completely by hand. OK I use the KitchenAide mixer and then
>> go
>> by hand from then on. A bread machine isn't a magic machine it does take
> a
>> little time to get to know it. To find the recipes with the amounts that
>> work perfectly for your machine. One does have to spend a little time in
>> the beginning of a cycle to make sure the dough is right before one runs
> off
>> to leave it to do what it does best. That 10-15 minutes of time will
>> save
>> me 4 hours once I can leave the machine to make bread. It can really be
>> a
>> time saver.
>
> Time must work different where you live. I can make a batch of dough in
> about 5 minutes in the FP. After that, it rises without any supervision
> for
> a couple of hours. Then it takes about 5 minutes to make up the final
> product. Another hour or so of unsupervised proofing and then into the
> oven. So in total I might spend 15 hands-on minutes baking bread. I wish
> that I could turn that 15 minutes into four "saved" hours, but honestly I
> think you would have to change the rules of physics first.
>
>
4 hours for a baked and cooled loaf of bread. Did you one better... I spent
10 minutes and had a loaf of bread ready to eat without having to change any
laws of physics. Didn't have to fool with making up a final product...
didn't have to preheat an oven and place in oven... didn't have to set a
timer... didn't have to turn out on a cooling rack. Seems the time warp is
happening in your kitchen.

Lynne

"King's Crown" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "Vox Humana" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "King's Crown" > wrote in message
> > ink.net...
> >>
> >> "Jenn Ridley" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> > Eric Jorgensen > wrote:
> >> >> The bread machine is a perfect tool for someone who has no
interest
> > in
> >> >>baking but who insists on having a little round loaf of fresh bread
on
> >> >>demand, along with the associated baking smells. It'd be great for
> >> >>that,
> >> >>assuming it works reliably.
> >> >
> >> > Yanno, I get really annoyed by comments like this. I'm a pretty good
> >> > baker, if I say so myself. I *can* make my own bread by hand.
> >> >
> >> > I have a choice, though. I can make bread by hand twice a week, or I
> >> > can do the laundry, or make dinner, or make fresh cookies for the
> >> > kids' lunchboxes. I have shoulder problems, and if I choose to make
> >> > bread by hand, I cannot do -anything- else that involves shoulder/arm
> >> > action for about a day.
> >> >
> >> > I own a bread machine. I use it 3 or 4 times a week. It makes good
> >> > bread, by which I mean that it's consistent from loaf to loaf, and
> >> > *MY KIDS LIKE IT* for their sandwiches. This last point is one of
the
> >> > big reasons I use the machine. It costs a hell of a lot less than
the
> >> > store bread that they will eat, and I don't have to buy 3-4 loaves
and
> >> > keep them in the freezer. (and still have to run out to the store on
> >> > Sunday so there's bread for Monday's lunchboxes.)
> >> >
> >> > I'd rather my family have a home-cooked dinner every night and
> >> > home-made cookies in their lunches than hand-made bread.
> >> > Jenn Ridley :
> >>
> >> I'm with you Jenn. I have a bread maker that is going on 15 years old.
> > It
> >> makes great bread. I use the dough cycle more often. I also on
occasion
> >> make bread completely by hand. OK I use the KitchenAide mixer and then
> >> go
> >> by hand from then on. A bread machine isn't a magic machine it does
take
> > a
> >> little time to get to know it. To find the recipes with the amounts
that
> >> work perfectly for your machine. One does have to spend a little time
in
> >> the beginning of a cycle to make sure the dough is right before one
runs
> > off
> >> to leave it to do what it does best. That 10-15 minutes of time will
> >> save
> >> me 4 hours once I can leave the machine to make bread. It can really
be
> >> a
> >> time saver.
> >
> > Time must work different where you live. I can make a batch of dough in
> > about 5 minutes in the FP. After that, it rises without any supervision
> > for
> > a couple of hours. Then it takes about 5 minutes to make up the final
> > product. Another hour or so of unsupervised proofing and then into the
> > oven. So in total I might spend 15 hands-on minutes baking bread. I
wish
> > that I could turn that 15 minutes into four "saved" hours, but honestly
I
> > think you would have to change the rules of physics first.
> >
> >
> 4 hours for a baked and cooled loaf of bread. Did you one better... I
spent
> 10 minutes and had a loaf of bread ready to eat without having to change
any
> laws of physics. Didn't have to fool with making up a final product...
> didn't have to preheat an oven and place in oven... didn't have to set a
> timer... didn't have to turn out on a cooling rack. Seems the time warp
is
> happening in your kitchen.
>
> Lynne

Nope. You didn't save any time at all. You just put your time in up-front
and I did mine in a couple of steps. I guess if you want to dump and run,
then the bread maker is for you. Thankfully I don't have that kind of
lifestyle.