Baking (rec.food.baking) For bakers, would-be bakers, and fans and consumers of breads, pastries, cakes, pies, cookies, crackers, bagels, and other items commonly found in a bakery. Includes all methods of preparation, both conventional and not.

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Old 23-08-2005, 11:38 AM
stiko
 
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Default Active dry yeast vs Instant (rapid-rise)

Hi! Here we only have active dry yeast and I happen to have lots of recipes
with instant (rapid-rise) Can anyone provide me with convertions and how I
could alter my instant yeast recipes so they work? Thanks



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Old 23-08-2005, 12:41 PM
Roy
 
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No big deal.....
Theortically you can increae the amount of active dry in relation to
instant yeaat by 25-30% but in actual practice bakers don't care much
about the quantity and would use the same amount. as long as you know
how to handle each yeast type according to pack directions.

Keep in mind that the main, difference between the active dry and the
instant dry is the word instant and active.grin

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Old 23-08-2005, 02:57 PM
stiko
 
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Roy thanks for your answer! It was very helpful. Would it be a correct
assumption that active dry yeast need a "tepid" start with some of the
liquid,flour and perhaps a bit of sugar to activate it, whereas instant
doesn't (it's activated more readily)? The pack here desn't really explain
anything or give instructions, so it just leaves you wondering... And how do
you use yeast quantity-wise in really hot weather? Thanks for your time!
Best Regards Stelios


? "Roy" ?????? ??? ??????
oups.com...
No big deal.....
Theortically you can increae the amount of active dry in relation to
instant yeaat by 25-30% but in actual practice bakers don't care much
about the quantity and would use the same amount. as long as you know
how to handle each yeast type according to pack directions.

Keep in mind that the main, difference between the active dry and the
instant dry is the word instant and active.grin



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Old 23-08-2005, 02:59 PM
Randall Nortman
 
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On 2005-08-23, stiko wrote:
Hi! Here we only have active dry yeast and I happen to have lots of recipes
with instant (rapid-rise) Can anyone provide me with convertions and how I
could alter my instant yeast recipes so they work? Thanks


First, note that "rapid rise", "fast acting", and "better for bread
machines" are all likely to mean that it's actually instant yeast, so
this may be a moot point if you can find anything so labeled.

The biggest difference is that active dry yeast, in theory, needs to
be dissolved in warm water ("proofed") before adding to the dough, in
order to wake up the yeast, whereas instant yeast can just be added
along with the rest of the dry ingredients with no separate proofing
step. For this reason, it is often recommended for bread machine
recipes, on the assumption that people baking with a bread machine
can't be bothered with extra steps.

In my experience, all modern dry yeast sold in grocery stores in the
US, whether labelled "rapid rise" or not, is pretty hardy under all
conditions (other than too-high temperatures, which will kill it
quickly), and will still perform pretty well even if not
pre-dissolved. You might end up killing some percentage of the
organisms by doing it this way, which would result in a slightly
slower rise (which, in my opinion, is desirable anyway) and a more
yeasty flavor than you might like.

Another difference, as mentioned by a previous poster, is the potency
of instant vs. active dry: instant yeast contains about 25% more
viable yeast cells (by volume) than active dry yeast, so you'll need
to increase the amount of yeast called for accordingly if you
substitute one for the other, or else be willing to let the dough rise
longer to acheive the same volume.

--
Randall
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Old 23-08-2005, 03:37 PM
Randall Nortman
 
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On 2005-08-23, stiko wrote:
Roy thanks for your answer! It was very helpful. Would it be a correct
assumption that active dry yeast need a "tepid" start with some of the
liquid,flour and perhaps a bit of sugar to activate it, whereas instant
doesn't (it's activated more readily)? The pack here desn't really explain
anything or give instructions, so it just leaves you wondering... And how do
you use yeast quantity-wise in really hot weather? Thanks for your time!


See my other response about pre-dissolving the active dry yeast. You
shouldn't actually need the sugar, and in fact too much sugar would
kill the yeast. A little sugar won't hurt.

In hot weather, you can decrease the yeast or just accept that the
rise will be much quicker (which will generally result in
blander-tasting bread). A better solution is to mix the dough
initially with cold water (even water straight from the refrigerator),
so that the dough starts out cool. If you pre-dissolve the yeast,
dissolve it in a small amount (1/4 cup) or warm (90F) water, but the
rest of the water should be cold. I do this even in cold weather,
because I think a longer rising time benefits most breads. (Most of
my doughs actually have their first rise overnight in the
refrigerator.)

--
Randall


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Old 23-08-2005, 04:32 PM
Mike Avery
 
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Randall Nortman wrote:

On 2005-08-23, stiko wrote:


Roy thanks for your answer! It was very helpful. Would it be a correct
assumption that active dry yeast need a "tepid" start with some of the
liquid,flour and perhaps a bit of sugar to activate it, whereas instant
doesn't (it's activated more readily)? The pack here desn't really explain
anything or give instructions, so it just leaves you wondering... And how do
you use yeast quantity-wise in really hot weather? Thanks for your time!



See my other response about pre-dissolving the active dry yeast. You
shouldn't actually need the sugar, and in fact too much sugar would
kill the yeast. A little sugar won't hurt.


Actually, since the early 1970's, I haven't bothered pre-dissolving
active dry yeast. In "Beard On Bread", James Beard said the reason for
proofing was to make sure the yeast would work, and that active dry
yeast was then so reliable proofing wasn't really needed. I add the
proofing water to the recipe, and drop the sugar as it is not needed.

In hot weather, you can decrease the yeast or just accept that the
rise will be much quicker (which will generally result in
blander-tasting bread). A better solution is to mix the dough
initially with cold water (even water straight from the refrigerator),
so that the dough starts out cool.


A still better approach is what professional bakers call the rule of
240. Ideally, your dough should be about 78F. If it is too hot, it
finishes too quickly and is too bland. If it is too cold, it takes too
long to finish.

Practically speaking, there are four components to the temperature of
dough. These are the temperature of your bakery or kitchen, the
temperature of your flour, the temperature of your water, and the amount
of heat added in kneading.

In most bakeries, and homes, the only one of these we have effective
control over is the temperature of the water.

When you knead dough, the temperature normally rises. To find out how
much, check the temperature of your dough when it first comes together,
and then again when it comes out of the mixer. This will vary from
recipe to recipe depending on the ingredients in the dough - whole
grains have more friction and tend to heat up faster than white flours.
Until you have the numbers worked out, a good guesstimate is about 5
degrees.

Now you're ready.... Take the temperature of your bakery, and of your
flour. Subtract both from 240. Subtract the heat rise from kneading.
The answer is the temperature of your water if you want a dough at 78F.

Enjoy!
Mike

--
....The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating
system and Linus Torvaldis claims to be trying to take over the world...

Mike Avery mavery at mail dot otherwhen dot com
home baker ICQ 16241692
networking guru AIM mavery81230
wordsmith Yahoo mavery81230

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Old 23-08-2005, 10:17 PM
Roy
 
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Roy thanks for your answer! It was very helpful. Would it be a correct
assumption that active dry yeast need a "tepid" start with some of the

liquid,flour and perhaps a bit of sugar to activate it, whereas
instant
doesn't (it's activated more readily)? The pack here desn't really explain
anything or give instructions, so it just leaves you wondering... And how do


I had done many variations of the hydration procedures by the yeast
manufacturers. Some yeast are robust enough that it does not show any
difference whether you hydrate it with tepid water or just tap water at
25 degeee C, but others are sensitive to such. If I have not used a
certain yeast brand that I the way I do ,hydrate in tepid water.
It is not necessary to add sugar, but I add flour along with the yeast,
maybe one part yeast to 1-2 parts flour; but I have done many times
without doing so and the results is virtually the same.. The flour is
just an insurance that the yeast has a suitable substrate to
'chew' upon cell release on hydration.
Pre-activation is recommended for active dry yeast as the granules are
coarser and if you add it directly to the flour like instant yeast, you
will end up with undissolved granules of active dry yeast affecting the
dough fermentative activity .
.. Beside most active dry yeasts are dried differently from instant
yeast and that can also contribute a considerable percentage of dead
cells in the active dry than in the instant version.
If you just soak it in normal tap water, there will be an increase of
dead yeast cells due to cold shock where the cell membrane will rupture
leaching out its cellular components; hence will result in weakening
the dough resulting in less volume, flatter symmetry , some yeasty
taste.
The instant yeast could also have that cold shock effect therefore its
recommended that its be blended with flour so that during hydration the
flour particles will form a barrier between the yeast shielding them
from the shock.
The most preferred way of hydrating instant yeast is to follow the same
procedure as the instant yeast and there will be very minimal yeast
cell degradation resulting that your dough will rise optimally.
Therefore if you plan to use only 2/3 of the active dry yeast quantity
and get the same result as the full amount dry yeast, do the hydration
in tepid water.
In recent years the drying process of the active dry was done much
better and there is less residual dead yeast cells and the particles
size in some brands are almost the same as the instant yeast and you
can just add it directly to the flour as well.
In addition genetic modification of the yeast resulted in much improved
yeast performance that some are already on par with instant yeast in
activity.

you use yeast quantity-wise in really hot weather? Thanks for your time!


In hot weather the bakers reduce the yeast to compensate for faster
fermentation rate at that elevated room temperature.
That is why you had to reduce it by a certain percentage in order to
get the same of a controlled fermentation and proofing rate.
But being too academic in your breadmaking sometimes make your prone
to mistakes; If I am just making bread at home and I don't need to
follow the hydration details and measurements to the letter and just
take it easy most of the time.
I am only strict with details if I am at work.
Roy

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Old 23-08-2005, 10:17 PM
Roy
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Roy thanks for your answer! It was very helpful. Would it be a correct
assumption that active dry yeast need a "tepid" start with some of the

liquid,flour and perhaps a bit of sugar to activate it, whereas
instant
doesn't (it's activated more readily)? The pack here desn't really explain
anything or give instructions, so it just leaves you wondering... And how do


I had done many variations of the hydration procedures by the yeast
manufacturers. Some yeast are robust enough that it does not show any
difference whether you hydrate it with tepid water or just tap water at
25 degeee C, but others are sensitive to such. If I have not used a
certain yeast brand that I the way I do ,hydrate in tepid water.
It is not necessary to add sugar, but I add flour along with the yeast,
maybe one part yeast to 1-2 parts flour; but I have done many times
without doing so and the results is virtually the same.. The flour is
just an insurance that the yeast has a suitable substrate to
'chew' upon cell release on hydration.
Pre-activation is recommended for active dry yeast as the granules are
coarser and if you add it directly to the flour like instant yeast, you
will end up with undissolved granules of active dry yeast affecting the
dough fermentative activity .
.. Beside most active dry yeasts are dried differently from instant
yeast and that can also contribute a considerable percentage of dead
cells in the active dry than in the instant version.
If you just soak it in normal tap water, there will be an increase of
dead yeast cells due to cold shock where the cell membrane will rupture
leaching out its cellular components; hence will result in weakening
the dough resulting in less volume, flatter symmetry , some yeasty
taste.
The instant yeast could also have that cold shock effect therefore its
recommended that its be blended with flour so that during hydration the
flour particles will form a barrier between the yeast shielding them
from the shock.
The most preferred way of hydrating instant yeast is to follow the same
procedure as the instant yeast and there will be very minimal yeast
cell degradation resulting that your dough will rise optimally.
Therefore if you plan to use only 2/3 of the active dry yeast quantity
and get the same result as the full amount dry yeast, do the hydration
in tepid water.
In recent years the drying process of the active dry was done much
better and there is less residual dead yeast cells and the particles
size in some brands are almost the same as the instant yeast and you
can just add it directly to the flour as well.
In addition genetic modification of the yeast resulted in much improved
yeast performance that some are already on par with instant yeast in
activity.

you use yeast quantity-wise in really hot weather? Thanks for your time!


In hot weather the bakers reduce the yeast to compensate for faster
fermentation rate at that elevated room temperature.
That is why you had to reduce it by a certain percentage in order to
get the same of a controlled fermentation and proofing rate.
But being too academic in your breadmaking sometimes make your prone
to mistakes; If I am just making bread at home and I don't need to
follow the hydration details and measurements to the letter and just
take it easy most of the time.
I am only strict with details if I am at work.
Roy



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