Baking (rec.food.baking) For bakers, would-be bakers, and fans and consumers of breads, pastries, cakes, pies, cookies, crackers, bagels, and other items commonly found in a bakery. Includes all methods of preparation, both conventional and not.

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Old 13-11-2003, 09:33 PM
A.T. Hagan
 
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Default Whole wheat flour and aging

How much of an affect does flour aging have on bread rise?

I've been wondering about this since the bread I make from flour I
mill myself consistently does not rise quite as nicely as the bread I
make from King Arthur whole-wheat-flour.

I use a Grainmaster Whispermill so the flour texture itself seems to
be as fine as the commercial flour and I use hard red wheat so the
protein ought to be pretty close, I think. The flour is fairly cool
when it comes out of the mill (I chill the berries first to avoid
heating). King Arthur claims "Includes 100% of the bran and germ of
the wheat berry" in their flour.

Other than the whole-wheat flour every other ingredient is identical,
same cycle in the machine, room temperature doesn't much vary, nor
does air humidity.

Could it be because my flour is generally a day or less old when I
make bread with it?

Should I let it age for a time before using it?

If so, how long and where? Room temperature or refrigerated?

Could just be the difference between their wheat and what I've got,
but I'm wondering if flour aging might explain at least part of it.

......Alan.

--
Curiosity killed the cat -
lack of it is killing mankind.

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Old 14-11-2003, 05:52 AM
Roy Basan
 
Posts: n/a
Default Whole wheat flour and aging

(A.T. Hagan) wrote in message ...
How much of an affect does flour aging have on bread rise?

I've been wondering about this since the bread I make from flour I
mill myself consistently does not rise quite as nicely as the bread I
make from King Arthur whole-wheat-flour.

I use a Grainmaster Whispermill so the flour texture itself seems to
be as fine as the commercial flour and I use hard red wheat so the
protein ought to be pretty close, I think. The flour is fairly cool
when it comes out of the mill (I chill the berries first to avoid
heating). King Arthur claims "Includes 100% of the bran and germ of
the wheat berry" in their flour.

Other than the whole-wheat flour every other ingredient is identical,
same cycle in the machine, room temperature doesn't much vary, nor
does air humidity.

Could it be because my flour is generally a day or less old when I
make bread with it?

Should I let it age for a time before using it?

If so, how long and where? Room temperature or refrigerated?

Could just be the difference between their wheat and what I've got,
but I'm wondering if flour aging might explain at least part of it.

.....Alan.


Milling wheat as done in the commercial flour mill is done
carefully.It is first done in experimental small scale.It is comprised
of different wheat blends decided by the mill operator which are all
subjected to small scale laboratory milling.
The wheat varieities are selected cleaned and remove of contaminating
grains,It is tempered to an appropriate moisture level before its run
to the grinding machine.Then the flour is evaluated chemically ,
rheological (subjecting the dough to stress and strain manipulation)
and baking performance and in addition tested for enzyme activity ;
so if its is less they have to fortify the wheat grain with small
amount of germinated grain or blend in diastatic malt flour in the
milled flour.
Other variables that affect performance is considered and the mill
chemist will interact with the mill operator and will decide what is
the best wheat blend and how much treatment is needed such as
enzymes, and even possible addition of vitamin C .
Once the flour evaluation is finished and the recommendation of the
milling chemist is considered that is the point that the milling
manager select the best grain blend will grind it in large scale for
the production purposes.
Now if you equate that with your home milling you are considering only
the protein factors and you do not have the capability to look at the
wheat from many points of its peculiarity.Quality consideration is not
part of your plan but just to grind the wheat and obtain flour...
Indeed wheat flour comes from wheat but the flour mill do not just
mill one kind of wheat but combine different wheat grain varieities
that will enable them to produce a good quality flour at the best
price with consistent performance.
When the flour is obtained its is placed in the silo and graded and
further evaluated as in the experimental stage .And if there is defect
found its is blended with other flours and evaluated again until it
pass the standards then its released for bagging and packing.
Therefore the flour normally stays in the mill for at least a week
before being marketted.And its sold as untreated it should stay in the
mill for a few weeks more to attain an aging effect.However if its
fortified with oxidants the average storage in the mill will be a
week before distribution.
The whole meal flours due to the propensity for rapid degradation is
just stored in the mill for a maximum of one week before distribution.
Therefore in your case its better to subject the flour to normal
storage( room temperature before you bake it) for a few days to a
week.If you want to store longer place it in the refrigerator and use
it within a month.
If you are in a hurry add vitamin C to your dough.
Roy
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Old 14-11-2003, 04:10 PM
A.T. Hagan
 
Posts: n/a
Default Whole wheat flour and aging

On 13 Nov 2003 20:52:09 -0800, (Roy Basan) wrote:

(A.T. Hagan) wrote in message ...
How much of an affect does flour aging have on bread rise?

I've been wondering about this since the bread I make from flour I
mill myself consistently does not rise quite as nicely as the bread I
make from King Arthur whole-wheat-flour.

I use a Grainmaster Whispermill so the flour texture itself seems to
be as fine as the commercial flour and I use hard red wheat so the
protein ought to be pretty close, I think. The flour is fairly cool
when it comes out of the mill (I chill the berries first to avoid
heating). King Arthur claims "Includes 100% of the bran and germ of
the wheat berry" in their flour.

Other than the whole-wheat flour every other ingredient is identical,
same cycle in the machine, room temperature doesn't much vary, nor
does air humidity.

Could it be because my flour is generally a day or less old when I
make bread with it?

Should I let it age for a time before using it?

If so, how long and where? Room temperature or refrigerated?

Could just be the difference between their wheat and what I've got,
but I'm wondering if flour aging might explain at least part of it.

.....Alan.


Milling wheat as done in the commercial flour mill is done
carefully.It is first done in experimental small scale.It is comprised
of different wheat blends decided by the mill operator which are all
subjected to small scale laboratory milling.
The wheat varieities are selected cleaned and remove of contaminating
grains,It is tempered to an appropriate moisture level before its run
to the grinding machine.Then the flour is evaluated chemically ,
rheological (subjecting the dough to stress and strain manipulation)
and baking performance and in addition tested for enzyme activity ;
so if its is less they have to fortify the wheat grain with small
amount of germinated grain or blend in diastatic malt flour in the
milled flour.
Other variables that affect performance is considered and the mill
chemist will interact with the mill operator and will decide what is
the best wheat blend and how much treatment is needed such as
enzymes, and even possible addition of vitamin C .
Once the flour evaluation is finished and the recommendation of the
milling chemist is considered that is the point that the milling
manager select the best grain blend will grind it in large scale for
the production purposes.
Now if you equate that with your home milling you are considering only
the protein factors and you do not have the capability to look at the
wheat from many points of its peculiarity.Quality consideration is not
part of your plan but just to grind the wheat and obtain flour...
Indeed wheat flour comes from wheat but the flour mill do not just
mill one kind of wheat but combine different wheat grain varieities
that will enable them to produce a good quality flour at the best
price with consistent performance.
When the flour is obtained its is placed in the silo and graded and
further evaluated as in the experimental stage .And if there is defect
found its is blended with other flours and evaluated again until it
pass the standards then its released for bagging and packing.
Therefore the flour normally stays in the mill for at least a week
before being marketted.And its sold as untreated it should stay in the
mill for a few weeks more to attain an aging effect.However if its
fortified with oxidants the average storage in the mill will be a
week before distribution.
The whole meal flours due to the propensity for rapid degradation is
just stored in the mill for a maximum of one week before distribution.
Therefore in your case its better to subject the flour to normal
storage( room temperature before you bake it) for a few days to a
week.If you want to store longer place it in the refrigerator and use
it within a month.
If you are in a hurry add vitamin C to your dough.
Roy


Thanks again, Roy.

We're going to be doing this right on anyway so I think I'll try it
both ways. Age some, use vitamin C in some and see what happens.

This bread machine has really diverted me. Endless experimentation
possibilities.

Only problem is we've got to eat all that bread! Urp!

......Alan.

--
Curiosity killed the cat -
lack of it is killing mankind.
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Old 14-11-2003, 06:27 PM
Mark Floerke
 
Posts: n/a
Default Whole wheat flour and aging

Before Millers started to oxidize flour with ascorbic acid, it was required
to age it for 3 to 6 months to get the proper oxidation for the protein and
colour. Down side is whole wheat with the germ won't last you more than a
month un-refrigerated, and it goes rancid. The free fatty acids interfere
with gluten development and fermentation, and will make very small heavy
tight loaves, even before you can smell or taste any rancidity.
Bread machine flours usually also have additional gluten, as well as
enzymes, ADA and AA as the machines usually run on a short fermentation
cycle, rather than the traditional straight time process. (Straight = 1 hour
punch & divide/round + 30 minutes - punch and mould + 1 hour final proof +
30 min bake)

Mr. Pastry

"A.T. Hagan" wrote in message
...
On 13 Nov 2003 20:52:09 -0800, (Roy Basan) wrote:

(A.T. Hagan) wrote in message

...
How much of an affect does flour aging have on bread rise?

I've been wondering about this since the bread I make from flour I
mill myself consistently does not rise quite as nicely as the bread I
make from King Arthur whole-wheat-flour.

I use a Grainmaster Whispermill so the flour texture itself seems to
be as fine as the commercial flour and I use hard red wheat so the
protein ought to be pretty close, I think. The flour is fairly cool
when it comes out of the mill (I chill the berries first to avoid
heating). King Arthur claims "Includes 100% of the bran and germ of
the wheat berry" in their flour.

Other than the whole-wheat flour every other ingredient is identical,
same cycle in the machine, room temperature doesn't much vary, nor
does air humidity.

Could it be because my flour is generally a day or less old when I
make bread with it?

Should I let it age for a time before using it?

If so, how long and where? Room temperature or refrigerated?

Could just be the difference between their wheat and what I've got,
but I'm wondering if flour aging might explain at least part of it.

.....Alan.


Milling wheat as done in the commercial flour mill is done
carefully.It is first done in experimental small scale.It is comprised
of different wheat blends decided by the mill operator which are all
subjected to small scale laboratory milling.
The wheat varieities are selected cleaned and remove of contaminating
grains,It is tempered to an appropriate moisture level before its run
to the grinding machine.Then the flour is evaluated chemically ,
rheological (subjecting the dough to stress and strain manipulation)
and baking performance and in addition tested for enzyme activity ;
so if its is less they have to fortify the wheat grain with small
amount of germinated grain or blend in diastatic malt flour in the
milled flour.
Other variables that affect performance is considered and the mill
chemist will interact with the mill operator and will decide what is
the best wheat blend and how much treatment is needed such as
enzymes, and even possible addition of vitamin C .
Once the flour evaluation is finished and the recommendation of the
milling chemist is considered that is the point that the milling
manager select the best grain blend will grind it in large scale for
the production purposes.
Now if you equate that with your home milling you are considering only
the protein factors and you do not have the capability to look at the
wheat from many points of its peculiarity.Quality consideration is not
part of your plan but just to grind the wheat and obtain flour...
Indeed wheat flour comes from wheat but the flour mill do not just
mill one kind of wheat but combine different wheat grain varieities
that will enable them to produce a good quality flour at the best
price with consistent performance.
When the flour is obtained its is placed in the silo and graded and
further evaluated as in the experimental stage .And if there is defect
found its is blended with other flours and evaluated again until it
pass the standards then its released for bagging and packing.
Therefore the flour normally stays in the mill for at least a week
before being marketted.And its sold as untreated it should stay in the
mill for a few weeks more to attain an aging effect.However if its
fortified with oxidants the average storage in the mill will be a
week before distribution.
The whole meal flours due to the propensity for rapid degradation is
just stored in the mill for a maximum of one week before distribution.
Therefore in your case its better to subject the flour to normal
storage( room temperature before you bake it) for a few days to a
week.If you want to store longer place it in the refrigerator and use
it within a month.
If you are in a hurry add vitamin C to your dough.
Roy


Thanks again, Roy.

We're going to be doing this right on anyway so I think I'll try it
both ways. Age some, use vitamin C in some and see what happens.

This bread machine has really diverted me. Endless experimentation
possibilities.

Only problem is we've got to eat all that bread! Urp!

.....Alan.

--
Curiosity killed the cat -
lack of it is killing mankind.





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