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Winemaking (rec.crafts.winemaking) Discussion of the process, recipes, tips, techniques and general exchange of lore on the process, methods and history of wine making. Includes traditional grape wines, sparkling wines & champagnes.

Ziegler's cider at WalMart with no preservatives? and shaking?



 
 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 03-12-2004, 04:07 PM
Dr. Richard E. Hawkins
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Default Ziegler's cider at WalMart with no preservatives? and shaking?

In article , Tom wrote:
Richard,

You have to realize what the definitions of cider and apple wine really are.
"Cider" (having nothing to do with the sediment, pulp, clear or cloudiness
of the finished product) is fermented apple juice plain and simple...with NO
additional sugars. Apples by their nature are only about 7% fermentable
sugars.


I got an initial gravity reading in the mid 40's.

Some sediment throw off is
usually seen and in fact expected by some by the very nature of cider. But
it is a light sediment, you don't want the heavy stuff. Does not age well
and meant to drink very young. As in this year.


OK. Lasts about as long as beer. Generally, I want it for thanksgiving
& chrismas, and a few cold days in January & February.

Apple wine by its definition is Apple must chapitilized with additional
sugars to create a ABV of 11-14% thus you get a wine that should be
clarified, bottled and aged like any other wine. No sediment here.


I've generally called this "hard cider". This is what I really like

Although it can be sweetened to taste prior to bottling it must be properly
stabilized with sorbate and SO2 to prevent any in bottle fermentation.


I have those around, though I'm trying to cut *way* back on the amount I
use, even in real wine. There's *something* in some wines that gives me
a massive sinus headache. The usual culprits are inexpensive whites,
and every Chilean red I've every tried [I love those Chilean reds,
but can't risk a full glass . . .]

thanks

hawk
--
Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign
111 Hiller (814) 375-4846 \ / against HTML mail
These opinions will not be those of X and postings.
Penn State until it pays my retainer. / \
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 03-12-2004, 05:56 PM
Denny Conn
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Default

Joel wrote:

If it's like other cider, the "heavy stuff" is just pulp,
and has no zymurgical value (AFAIK).


Yep...I make cider from juice I press from my own trees. I sulfite the
juice and let it sit overnight. Next day, that sludge is there. I rack
off of it into a carboy and pitch the yeast. The one time I didn't rack
off of it before pitching, it just sank to the bottom of the carboy and
I racked off of it going to secondary. No impact on taste either way.

---------Denny

--
Life begins at 60 - 1.060, that is.

Reply to denny_at_projectoneaudio_dot_com
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 03-12-2004, 10:57 PM
Ralconte
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(Dr. Richard E. Hawkins) wrote in message ...
I waffled all morning about which group to send it to, so I'm sending it
to both.

One of my students reported to me that WalMart had cider with no
preservatives. My wife picked one up, and the label makes no mention of
them. It clames "100% apple." (but I've seen that in ones that also
claim preservatives before).

I put a yeast-tube full of Reisling that started fermenting on Sunday
into it, and an airlock. If it takes off, I'll buy several more.

I have no idea how widely spread this brand is at WalMart; I'm in
west-central Pennsylvania.

It's been a few years since I've done a cider (haven't found any without
preservatives). This one requires shaking before serving. How in the
world am I going to deal with this when I try to rack it off its
sediment??? Or will everything that needs that just fall out?

hawk


Here's a question for all the cider makers out there. If you've made
a cider that was low in alcohol and still sweet, I'd like to know the
name of your yeast.

I recently started a gallon, just to have something fun for the
holidays. I used Lavin EC-1118, so I'm sure its going to be bone dry,
and any sugar I might add would be fermented rapidly, until I hit 18%
alcohol. And I don't want to go that far to have sugar left.

I could stabalize, but I'd like to prime the bottles for carbonation.
Gee, I don't want much do I, low alcohol, residual sugar, natural
bubbles.

I've googled around, and the suggestion is wine yeast for dry, ale
yeast for residual sugar. But what kind? As I look closer, the
particular strains of cider yeast and ale yeasts suggested all report
that the cider will ferment dry.
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 04-12-2004, 03:18 AM
William Frazier
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Default

Ralconte - Try White Labs English Cider yeast [wlp775]. A cider maker I
know uses this yeast and makes a carbonated cider, beer strength with apple
flavor retained. WLP775 is the only yeast he knows that will make a
carbonated cider that doesn't taste bone dry. Here's some info on the yeast
from White Labs site;

"Classic cider yeast. Ferments dry, but retains flavor from apples. Sulfur
is produced during fermentation, but will disappear in first two weeks of
aging. Can also be used for wine and high gravity beers."

Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas UsA

Ralcontewrote
Here's a question for all the cider makers out there. If you've made
a cider that was low in alcohol and still sweet, I'd like to know the
name of your yeast.

I recently started a gallon, just to have something fun for the
holidays. I used Lavin EC-1118, so I'm sure its going to be bone dry,
and any sugar I might add would be fermented rapidly, until I hit 18%
alcohol. And I don't want to go that far to have sugar left.

I could stabalize, but I'd like to prime the bottles for carbonation.
Gee, I don't want much do I, low alcohol, residual sugar, natural
bubbles.

I've googled around, and the suggestion is wine yeast for dry, ale
yeast for residual sugar. But what kind? As I look closer, the
particular strains of cider yeast and ale yeasts suggested all report
that the cider will ferment dry.



  #5 (permalink)  
Old 04-12-2004, 01:20 PM
John Heubel
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Default

The Ziegler's I got at Costco in MD has potassium metabisulfate, which I
unfortunately didn't see when I purchased. My eyes glommed onto
*pasturized* and I didn't read further til this thread came up.
--
John Heubel
Frederick, MD
remove the obvious for replies


  #6 (permalink)  
Old 04-12-2004, 05:01 PM
J F
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Default


"Ralconte" wrote in message
Here's a question for all the cider makers out there. If you've made
a cider that was low in alcohol and still sweet, I'd like to know the
name of your yeast.

It's not the yeast but rather how much fermentable sugars you have in the
vat for the yeast to consume.
If you add a mixture of fermentable and non fermenatble sugars to the bottle
for carbonation priming you can get a bubbly sweet cider. High fructose corn
syrup is about 4% non fermentable sugars and availble at your grocery store.




  #7 (permalink)  
Old 04-12-2004, 05:05 PM
J F
Usenet poster
 
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Default


"Ralconte" wrote in message
I've googled around, and the suggestion is wine yeast for dry, ale
yeast for residual sugar. But what kind? As I look closer, the
particular strains of cider yeast and ale yeasts suggested all report
that the cider will ferment dry.

Okay I just recalled another idea. Blend in pear juice to your apple juice.
Pears have naturally occuring non fermentable sugars. I just finished at
batch of perry that would not drop below 1.006, a semi dry finish by taste.


  #8 (permalink)  
Old 04-12-2004, 07:15 PM
B0B
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Default


"William Frazier" wrote in message
...

Dr. Richard E. Hawkins wrote "This one requires shaking before serving.

How
in the
world am I going to deal with this when I try to rack it off its
sediment??? Or will everything that needs that just fall out?"


Rack it off the sediment before you ferment it. You have to get rid of

that
stuff eventually.


I'd probably opt to leave it in during primary ferment.
Either way, let us know what happens!
Bob

Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas USA





  #9 (permalink)  
Old 04-12-2004, 10:13 PM
Ralconte
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"J F" wrote in message m...
"Ralconte" wrote in message
I've googled around, and the suggestion is wine yeast for dry, ale
yeast for residual sugar. But what kind? As I look closer, the
particular strains of cider yeast and ale yeasts suggested all report
that the cider will ferment dry.

Okay I just recalled another idea. Blend in pear juice to your apple juice.
Pears have naturally occuring non fermentable sugars. I just finished at
batch of perry that would not drop below 1.006, a semi dry finish by taste.


Thanks I will try this. I can even shoot in a small bottle of pear
nectar now while the cider is still fermenting.

Most yeasts that give a % alcohol that's toxic would not conk out
before they ferment all the natural sugars in cider. Maybe, despite
my better judgement, I'll try bread yeast -- I know that will stop at
low alcohol levels.
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 04-12-2004, 10:19 PM
J F
Usenet poster
 
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Default


"Ralconte" wrote in message
Most yeasts that give a % alcohol that's toxic would not conk out
before they ferment all the natural sugars in cider. Maybe, despite
my better judgement, I'll try bread yeast -- I know that will stop at
low alcohol levels.

Apparently one compnay claims to make a yeast that will leave 2% sugar even
if it could go dry.
Bread yest is going to at best give you very low alcohol cloudiness you
can't get rid of without membrane filters and taste of yeast will over power
everything else.


 




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