I waffled all morning about which group to send it to, so I'm sending it
to both.

One of my students reported to me that WalMart had cider with no
preservatives. My wife picked one up, and the label makes no mention of
them. It clames "100% apple." (but I've seen that in ones that also
claim preservatives before).

I put a yeast-tube full of Reisling that started fermenting on Sunday
into it, and an airlock. If it takes off, I'll buy several more.

I have no idea how widely spread this brand is at WalMart; I'm in
west-central Pennsylvania.

It's been a few years since I've done a cider (haven't found any without
preservatives). This one requires shaking before serving. How in the
world am I going to deal with this when I try to rack it off its
sediment??? Or will everything that needs that just fall out?

hawk
--
Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign
111 Hiller (814) 375-4846 \ / against HTML mail
These opinions will not be those of X and postings.
Penn State until it pays my retainer. / \

Dr. Richard E. Hawkins wrote "This one requires shaking before serving. How
in the
> world am I going to deal with this when I try to rack it off its
> sediment??? Or will everything that needs that just fall out?"

Rack it off the sediment before you ferment it. You have to get rid of that
stuff eventually.

Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas USA

Dr. Richard E. Hawkins wrote "This one requires shaking before serving. How
in the
> world am I going to deal with this when I try to rack it off its
> sediment??? Or will everything that needs that just fall out?"

Rack it off the sediment before you ferment it. You have to get rid of that
stuff eventually.

Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas USA

In article >,
William Frazier > wrote:
>
>Dr. Richard E. Hawkins wrote "This one requires shaking before serving. How
>in the
>> world am I going to deal with this when I try to rack it off its
>> sediment??? Or will everything that needs that just fall out?"
>
>Rack it off the sediment before you ferment it. You have to get rid of that
>stuff eventually.

But that's the problem

Do I lose the stuff that needs to be shaken back in by doing that? And
should it bother me if I lose it?

hawk
--
Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign
111 Hiller (814) 375-4846 \ / against HTML mail
These opinions will not be those of X and postings.
Penn State until it pays my retainer. / \

In article >,
William Frazier > wrote:
>
>Dr. Richard E. Hawkins wrote "This one requires shaking before serving. How
>in the
>> world am I going to deal with this when I try to rack it off its
>> sediment??? Or will everything that needs that just fall out?"
>
>Rack it off the sediment before you ferment it. You have to get rid of that
>stuff eventually.

But that's the problem

Do I lose the stuff that needs to be shaken back in by doing that? And
should it bother me if I lose it?

hawk
--
Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign
111 Hiller (814) 375-4846 \ / against HTML mail
These opinions will not be those of X and postings.
Penn State until it pays my retainer. / \

"Dr. Richard E. Hawkins" wrote:

> Do I lose the stuff that needs to be shaken back in by doing that? And
> should it bother me if I lose it?

Yes to the first and no to the second.

-------->Denny

--
Life begins at 60 - 1.060, that is.

Reply to denny_at_projectoneaudio_dot_com

In article >, Denny Conn > wrote:
>"Dr. Richard E. Hawkins" wrote:
>
>> Do I lose the stuff that needs to be shaken back in by doing that? And
>> should it bother me if I lose it?
>
>Yes to the first and no to the second.

OK, now *why* isn't that stuff important?

Hmm, and now the fiendish though hits me to not shake in the very first
place, then ferment the heavy stuff separately, and add it back after
racking off the sediment from the main batch . . .

hawk
--
Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign
111 Hiller (814) 375-4846 \ / against HTML mail
These opinions will not be those of X and postings.
Penn State until it pays my retainer. / \

In article >, Denny Conn > wrote:
>"Dr. Richard E. Hawkins" wrote:
>
>> Do I lose the stuff that needs to be shaken back in by doing that? And
>> should it bother me if I lose it?
>
>Yes to the first and no to the second.

OK, now *why* isn't that stuff important?

Hmm, and now the fiendish though hits me to not shake in the very first
place, then ferment the heavy stuff separately, and add it back after
racking off the sediment from the main batch . . .

hawk
--
Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign
111 Hiller (814) 375-4846 \ / against HTML mail
These opinions will not be those of X and postings.
Penn State until it pays my retainer. / \

Dr. Richard E. Hawkins > wrote:
>In article >, Denny Conn > wrote:
>>"Dr. Richard E. Hawkins" wrote:
>>> Do I lose the stuff that needs to be shaken back in by doing that? And
>>> should it bother me if I lose it?
>>
>>Yes to the first and no to the second.
>
>OK, now *why* isn't that stuff important?
>
>Hmm, and now the fiendish though hits me to not shake in the very first
>place, then ferment the heavy stuff separately, and add it back after
>racking off the sediment from the main batch . . .

If it's like other cider, the "heavy stuff" is just pulp,
and has no zymurgical value (AFAIK).
--
Joel Plutchak "Eat everything. Have fun." - Julia Child.
plutchak at [...]

"Dr. Richard E. Hawkins" > wrote in
message ...
> I waffled all morning about which group to send it to, so I'm
sending it
> to both.
>
> One of my students reported to me that WalMart had cider with
no
> preservatives. My wife picked one up, and the label makes no
mention of
> them. It clames "100% apple." (but I've seen that in ones that
also
> claim preservatives before).
>
> I put a yeast-tube full of Reisling that started fermenting on
Sunday
> into it, and an airlock. If it takes off, I'll buy several
more.
>
> I have no idea how widely spread this brand is at WalMart; I'm
in
> west-central Pennsylvania.
>
> It's been a few years since I've done a cider (haven't found
any without
> preservatives). This one requires shaking before serving. How
in the
> world am I going to deal with this when I try to rack it off
its
> sediment??? Or will everything that needs that just fall out?

The "heavy stuff" will go away when you rack. Don't sweat it.

Bob

Richard,

You have to realize what the definitions of cider and apple wine really are.
"Cider" (having nothing to do with the sediment, pulp, clear or cloudiness
of the finished product) is fermented apple juice plain and simple...with NO
additional sugars. Apples by their nature are only about 7% fermentable
sugars. An apple cider fermented to dryness is only about 6.5% ABV. You
can serve it as is or bottle with a very slight addition of juice or sugar
to create sparkling cider. (VERY VERY SLIGHT) Some sediment throw off is
usually seen and in fact expected by some by the very nature of cider. But
it is a light sediment, you don't want the heavy stuff. Does not age well
and meant to drink very young. As in this year.

Apple wine by its definition is Apple must chapitilized with additional
sugars to create a ABV of 11-14% thus you get a wine that should be
clarified, bottled and aged like any other wine. No sediment here.
Although it can be sweetened to taste prior to bottling it must be properly
stabilized with sorbate and SO2 to prevent any in bottle fermentation.

Tom

"Dr. Richard E. Hawkins" > wrote in message
...
>I waffled all morning about which group to send it to, so I'm sending it
> to both.
>
> One of my students reported to me that WalMart had cider with no
> preservatives. My wife picked one up, and the label makes no mention of
> them. It clames "100% apple." (but I've seen that in ones that also
> claim preservatives before).
>
> I put a yeast-tube full of Reisling that started fermenting on Sunday
> into it, and an airlock. If it takes off, I'll buy several more.
>
> I have no idea how widely spread this brand is at WalMart; I'm in
> west-central Pennsylvania.
>
> It's been a few years since I've done a cider (haven't found any without
> preservatives). This one requires shaking before serving. How in the
> world am I going to deal with this when I try to rack it off its
> sediment??? Or will everything that needs that just fall out?
>
> hawk
> --
> Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics /"\ ASCII ribbon
> campaign
> 111 Hiller (814) 375-4846 \ / against HTML mail
> These opinions will not be those of X and postings.
> Penn State until it pays my retainer. / \

Richard,

You have to realize what the definitions of cider and apple wine really are.
"Cider" (having nothing to do with the sediment, pulp, clear or cloudiness
of the finished product) is fermented apple juice plain and simple...with NO
additional sugars. Apples by their nature are only about 7% fermentable
sugars. An apple cider fermented to dryness is only about 6.5% ABV. You
can serve it as is or bottle with a very slight addition of juice or sugar
to create sparkling cider. (VERY VERY SLIGHT) Some sediment throw off is
usually seen and in fact expected by some by the very nature of cider. But
it is a light sediment, you don't want the heavy stuff. Does not age well
and meant to drink very young. As in this year.

Apple wine by its definition is Apple must chapitilized with additional
sugars to create a ABV of 11-14% thus you get a wine that should be
clarified, bottled and aged like any other wine. No sediment here.
Although it can be sweetened to taste prior to bottling it must be properly
stabilized with sorbate and SO2 to prevent any in bottle fermentation.

Tom

"Dr. Richard E. Hawkins" > wrote in message
...
>I waffled all morning about which group to send it to, so I'm sending it
> to both.
>
> One of my students reported to me that WalMart had cider with no
> preservatives. My wife picked one up, and the label makes no mention of
> them. It clames "100% apple." (but I've seen that in ones that also
> claim preservatives before).
>
> I put a yeast-tube full of Reisling that started fermenting on Sunday
> into it, and an airlock. If it takes off, I'll buy several more.
>
> I have no idea how widely spread this brand is at WalMart; I'm in
> west-central Pennsylvania.
>
> It's been a few years since I've done a cider (haven't found any without
> preservatives). This one requires shaking before serving. How in the
> world am I going to deal with this when I try to rack it off its
> sediment??? Or will everything that needs that just fall out?
>
> hawk
> --
> Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics /"\ ASCII ribbon
> campaign
> 111 Hiller (814) 375-4846 \ / against HTML mail
> These opinions will not be those of X and postings.
> Penn State until it pays my retainer. / \

In article >, Tom > wrote:
>Richard,
>
>You have to realize what the definitions of cider and apple wine really are.
>"Cider" (having nothing to do with the sediment, pulp, clear or cloudiness
>of the finished product) is fermented apple juice plain and simple...with NO
>additional sugars. Apples by their nature are only about 7% fermentable
>sugars.

I got an initial gravity reading in the mid 40's.

>Some sediment throw off is
>usually seen and in fact expected by some by the very nature of cider. But
>it is a light sediment, you don't want the heavy stuff. Does not age well
>and meant to drink very young. As in this year.

OK. Lasts about as long as beer. Generally, I want it for thanksgiving
& chrismas, and a few cold days in January & February.

>Apple wine by its definition is Apple must chapitilized with additional
>sugars to create a ABV of 11-14% thus you get a wine that should be
>clarified, bottled and aged like any other wine. No sediment here.

I've generally called this "hard cider". This is what I really like

>Although it can be sweetened to taste prior to bottling it must be properly
>stabilized with sorbate and SO2 to prevent any in bottle fermentation.

I have those around, though I'm trying to cut *way* back on the amount I
use, even in real wine. There's *something* in some wines that gives me
a massive sinus headache. The usual culprits are inexpensive whites,
and every Chilean red I've every tried [I love those Chilean reds,
but can't risk a full glass . . .]

thanks

hawk
--
Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign
111 Hiller (814) 375-4846 \ / against HTML mail
These opinions will not be those of X and postings.
Penn State until it pays my retainer. / \

In article >,
Dr. Richard E. Hawkins > wrote:
>
>One of my students reported to me that WalMart had cider with no
>preservatives. My wife picked one up, and the label makes no mention of
>them. It clames "100% apple." (but I've seen that in ones that also
>claim preservatives before).
>
>I put a yeast-tube full of Reisling that started fermenting on Sunday
>into it, and an airlock. If it takes off, I'll buy several more.

As of this morning (one day), still no sign of fermentation.



Hmm, is there an easy way to test for the presence of potassium sorbate?
hawk
--
Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign
111 Hiller (814) 375-4846 \ / against HTML mail
These opinions will not be those of X and postings.
Penn State until it pays my retainer. / \

Joel wrote:

> If it's like other cider, the "heavy stuff" is just pulp,
> and has no zymurgical value (AFAIK).

Yep...I make cider from juice I press from my own trees. I sulfite the
juice and let it sit overnight. Next day, that sludge is there. I rack
off of it into a carboy and pitch the yeast. The one time I didn't rack
off of it before pitching, it just sank to the bottom of the carboy and
I racked off of it going to secondary. No impact on taste either way.

--------->Denny

--
Life begins at 60 - 1.060, that is.

Reply to denny_at_projectoneaudio_dot_com

(Dr. Richard E. Hawkins) wrote in message >...
> I waffled all morning about which group to send it to, so I'm sending it
> to both.
>
> One of my students reported to me that WalMart had cider with no
> preservatives. My wife picked one up, and the label makes no mention of
> them. It clames "100% apple." (but I've seen that in ones that also
> claim preservatives before).
>
> I put a yeast-tube full of Reisling that started fermenting on Sunday
> into it, and an airlock. If it takes off, I'll buy several more.
>
> I have no idea how widely spread this brand is at WalMart; I'm in
> west-central Pennsylvania.
>
> It's been a few years since I've done a cider (haven't found any without
> preservatives). This one requires shaking before serving. How in the
> world am I going to deal with this when I try to rack it off its
> sediment??? Or will everything that needs that just fall out?
>
> hawk

Here's a question for all the cider makers out there. If you've made
a cider that was low in alcohol and still sweet, I'd like to know the
name of your yeast.

I recently started a gallon, just to have something fun for the
holidays. I used Lavin EC-1118, so I'm sure its going to be bone dry,
and any sugar I might add would be fermented rapidly, until I hit 18%
alcohol. And I don't want to go that far to have sugar left.

I could stabalize, but I'd like to prime the bottles for carbonation.
Gee, I don't want much do I, low alcohol, residual sugar, natural
bubbles.

I've googled around, and the suggestion is wine yeast for dry, ale
yeast for residual sugar. But what kind? As I look closer, the
particular strains of cider yeast and ale yeasts suggested all report
that the cider will ferment dry.

Ralconte - Try White Labs English Cider yeast [wlp775]. A cider maker I
know uses this yeast and makes a carbonated cider, beer strength with apple
flavor retained. WLP775 is the only yeast he knows that will make a
carbonated cider that doesn't taste bone dry. Here's some info on the yeast
from White Labs site;

"Classic cider yeast. Ferments dry, but retains flavor from apples. Sulfur
is produced during fermentation, but will disappear in first two weeks of
aging. Can also be used for wine and high gravity beers."

Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas UsA

Ralcontewrote>
> Here's a question for all the cider makers out there. If you've made
> a cider that was low in alcohol and still sweet, I'd like to know the
> name of your yeast.
>
> I recently started a gallon, just to have something fun for the
> holidays. I used Lavin EC-1118, so I'm sure its going to be bone dry,
> and any sugar I might add would be fermented rapidly, until I hit 18%
> alcohol. And I don't want to go that far to have sugar left.
>
> I could stabalize, but I'd like to prime the bottles for carbonation.
> Gee, I don't want much do I, low alcohol, residual sugar, natural
> bubbles.
>
> I've googled around, and the suggestion is wine yeast for dry, ale
> yeast for residual sugar. But what kind? As I look closer, the
> particular strains of cider yeast and ale yeasts suggested all report
> that the cider will ferment dry.
>

The Ziegler's I got at Costco in MD has potassium metabisulfate, which I
unfortunately didn't see when I purchased. My eyes glommed onto
*pasturized* and I didn't read further til this thread came up.
--
John Heubel
Frederick, MD
remove the obvious for replies

"Ralconte" > wrote in message
> Here's a question for all the cider makers out there. If you've made
> a cider that was low in alcohol and still sweet, I'd like to know the
> name of your yeast.
>
It's not the yeast but rather how much fermentable sugars you have in the
vat for the yeast to consume.
If you add a mixture of fermentable and non fermenatble sugars to the bottle
for carbonation priming you can get a bubbly sweet cider. High fructose corn
syrup is about 4% non fermentable sugars and availble at your grocery store.

"Ralconte" > wrote in message
> I've googled around, and the suggestion is wine yeast for dry, ale
> yeast for residual sugar. But what kind? As I look closer, the
> particular strains of cider yeast and ale yeasts suggested all report
> that the cider will ferment dry.
Okay I just recalled another idea. Blend in pear juice to your apple juice.
Pears have naturally occuring non fermentable sugars. I just finished at
batch of perry that would not drop below 1.006, a semi dry finish by taste.

"William Frazier" > wrote in message
...
>
> Dr. Richard E. Hawkins wrote "This one requires shaking before serving.
How
> in the
> > world am I going to deal with this when I try to rack it off its
> > sediment??? Or will everything that needs that just fall out?"
>
> Rack it off the sediment before you ferment it. You have to get rid of
that
> stuff eventually.

I'd probably opt to leave it in during primary ferment.
Either way, let us know what happens!
Bob<><
>
> Bill Frazier
> Olathe, Kansas USA
>
>
>

"Ralconte" > wrote in message
> Most yeasts that give a % alcohol that's toxic would not conk out
> before they ferment all the natural sugars in cider. Maybe, despite
> my better judgement, I'll try bread yeast -- I know that will stop at
> low alcohol levels.
Apparently one compnay claims to make a yeast that will leave 2% sugar even
if it could go dry.
Bread yest is going to at best give you very low alcohol cloudiness you
can't get rid of without membrane filters and taste of yeast will over power
everything else.

In article >,
John Heubel > wrote:
>The Ziegler's I got at Costco in MD has potassium metabisulfate, which I
>unfortunately didn't see when I purchased. My eyes glommed onto
>*pasturized* and I didn't read further til this thread came up.

Curiouser and curiouser.


It's been showing life since Sunday morning.

The bottles from Wally-world don't say either way. But I found bottles
in Martins (a grocery stocked through Eagle) which say "no
preservatives."

I picked up six more, which should let me make some with and some
without sugar . . .

hawk
--
Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign
111 Hiller (814) 375-4846 \ / against HTML mail
These opinions will not be those of X and postings.
Penn State until it pays my retainer. / \