Comment inside.

Pp

geo wrote:
> Hi everybody,
>
> I used to make fruit wines in the midwest many years ago. These
days,
> I live in California, and so for the first time in over 20 years, I
> decided to try my hand at winemaking. I bought one of Wine Expert's
> (nee Brew King's) Selection Speciale Port Kits. Although the results
> are promising, I'd like to ask the experts in this forum for some
> advice.
>
> On day 1, the SG of this 3-gallon kit was 1.129 (right about where
the
> instructions said it should be). After getting off to a slow start,
> (had to throw a second helping of yeast) a vigorous fermentation took
> the SG down to 1.010 within a couple of weeks. At this point, the
> instructions called for the addition of 2 cups of corn sugar,
bringing
> the SG back up to a target range of 1.015-1.025. After sweetening,
my
> hydrometer read 1.022, so I was right about where I should have been.
>
> Fast forward a few more weeks. At this point, the instructions
called
> for stabilizing when the wine reached an SG of 1.010. My hydrometer
> read 1.014. Although the lock still showed some activity, (a bubble
or
> two every 5-10 minutes or so), the hydrometer had not registered any
> change in a week. Reasoning that the SG had gone as low as it was
> likely to, I added the sulfite, potassium sorbate, chitosan and the
> f-pack, just as the instructions said.
>
> Still with me? After adding the f-pack, the instructions said I
> should have an SG in the range 1.015-1.020. So you can imagine my
face
> when the hydrometer registered 1.034! My mouth confirmed what the
> hydrometer said: I know port is supposed to be sweet, but not this
> sweet!
>

The problem is here. The wine didn't go as low as expected (1.014
instead of 1.010), but that's not unusual in this case. What doesn't
make sense is that you increase in sg was 20 "points", while the
instructions indicate a rise of only 5-10 points. The difference is
puzzling and probably the best way of figuring out what's going on here
is to call Winexpert.

> Now - three days later, there's about a quarter inch of sediment at
the
> bottom of the carboy. No surprise there - that's what the chitosan
is
> for. To get the wine off of the sediment, I'm planning to rack it
> early next week (the instructions say to let it clear for about 8
days
> and then rack it). The air lock shows that there's still a little
bit
> of activity in there - a bubble or two about once every 5-10 minutes.
> But unless those yeasties are ravenously hungry this week, this wine
is
> going to be too sweet to bottle.
>

Since you've added sorbate, your ferment is officially over. What
you're seeing is just degassing of the residual CO2 generated in the
fermentation. The sugar won't fo down but it might integrate over time,
so the perception of sweetness might not be as strong - however, the
difference won't probably be enough in this case.

> Anybody got any idea of what I might have done wrong or what I ought
to
> do? SHould I rack it this weekend to get it off the sediment?
Should
> I wait until the lock stops bubbling all together? Should I have
added
> the f-pack in drips and drabs, watching the SG rise as I did so until
> it reached the target range?
>

You could have waited longer but it sounds like the ferment was done
anyway. High sugar fermentation are finicky in general, so ending
slightly sweeter than wanted is not unusual. The best strategy would be
to use just a part of the f-pack until you get the desired sweetness.

> If I leave the wine alone, is there any chance it could still ferment
> down to a more reasonable SG? I know ports are often fortified with
> brandy to bring the alcohol level up to 19-20%. Should I blend this
> syrupy stuff with a dry wine to make a more reasonable finished
> product? Any other thoughts?

You will need to do some sort of blending. If you use dry red wine, you
can always boost it by adding vodka or Everclear to 18% or so before
blending, that way your alcohol level will stay where it should be.
Alternatively, you could get the same kit again, ferment it to the
stabilizing stage, don't add the f-pack and blend the 2 together.
>
> -geo

Just a quick followup to this discussion. Per the suggestion that was
posted here earlier, (and many thanks to Pp for the advice), I emailed
winexpert's tech support and I must say I was *very* impressed - the
person that answered my email was quick to respond, very knowledgable,
and answered all my follow up emails promptly. Kudo's to winexpert and
any other company that understands the value of customer support. I'll
be a winexpert customer for a long time.

Fermentation of my port kit has now finished. I've blended the port
with some brandy - which effectively lowered the SG to a more
reasonable level, while raising the ABV to a level more in line with
commercial ports. The result tastes very promising. I'll post again
in six months or so to let everybody know the results.

"geo" > wrote in
oups.com:

> Just a quick followup to this discussion. Per the suggestion that was
> posted here earlier, (and many thanks to Pp for the advice), I emailed
> winexpert's tech support and I must say I was *very* impressed - the
> person that answered my email was quick to respond, very knowledgable,
> and answered all my follow up emails promptly. Kudo's to winexpert
> and any other company that understands the value of customer support.
> I'll be a winexpert customer for a long time.
>
> Fermentation of my port kit has now finished. I've blended the port
> with some brandy - which effectively lowered the SG to a more
> reasonable level, while raising the ABV to a level more in line with
> commercial ports. The result tastes very promising. I'll post again
> in six months or so to let everybody know the results.
>
>

What was the answer from customer service???? I have the exact same kit
in the first 4 days of fermentation right now....

ET

I have never yet failed to get an answer from Winexpert ( and previously
Brewking) and have several times had extended correspondence with them over
particular issues. I may not always agree them over certain points but their
advice has always been helpful, clear and to the point --- and not full of
side issues pushing their products. They also seem to have a positive
attitude to suggestions put to them and their continuing development of the
red wine kits in particular shows a keen interest in the finished product.


--
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire, England
Remove "PSANTISPAM" from my address line to reply.
All outgoing mail is scanned by Norton
Anti Virus for your protection too!
"ET" > wrote in message
...
> "geo" > wrote in
> oups.com:
>
>> Just a quick followup to this discussion. Per the suggestion that was
>> posted here earlier, (and many thanks to Pp for the advice), I emailed
>> winexpert's tech support and I must say I was *very* impressed - the
>> person that answered my email was quick to respond, very knowledgable,
>> and answered all my follow up emails promptly. Kudo's to winexpert
>> and any other company that understands the value of customer support.
>> I'll be a winexpert customer for a long time.
>>
>> Fermentation of my port kit has now finished. I've blended the port
>> with some brandy - which effectively lowered the SG to a more
>> reasonable level, while raising the ABV to a level more in line with
>> commercial ports. The result tastes very promising. I'll post again
>> in six months or so to let everybody know the results.
>>
>>
>
> What was the answer from customer service???? I have the exact same kit
> in the first 4 days of fermentation right now....
>
> ET

ET asked:
> What was the answer from customer service???? I have the exact same
kit
> in the first 4 days of fermentation right now....

Send me email, and I'll send you the whole dialog. Too lengthy to
post. To anybody who tries one of the port kits, I'd have the
following advice:
1) When the instructions say "stir vigorously", they mean
it. You should have a sore arm when you're done.
(The instructions say to do this
when you start the primary).
2) Watch the temperature. I let mine get too hot
and the fermentation stuck. I was able to
re-start by throwing another packet of yeast.
During this kit, I discovered "fermometers"
(plastic ribbon thermometers that stick to the
outside of the carboy or the primary). They
make it a lot easier to monitor the
temperature without having to risk exposure
to oxygen by opening it up to dip a dairy
thermometer.
3) Use exactly the amount of water that the
instructions say. The instructions are written
in imperial gallons. If you can't find a
measuring jug that's calibrated
that way, don't just guess; take the time to
do the math and use
exactly as much water as the instructions say.
4) Hydrate the yeast before you throw it.
5) I've now had two winexpert kits that have stalled
during primary fermentation - my retailer says
that sometimes, if the kits sit on the shelf
(or in the warehouse) too long, the yeast will
weaken, especially if they're not refridgerated.
He keeps yeast in a refridgerator in his
shop, and has begun giving away a packet with
each kit ("if your fermentation stalls, throw
this in...") If your dealer isn't so generous,
then buy an extra packet of yeast yourself.
6) Finally, when you add the f-pack to the wine,
take the SG of the wine - then add about 1/3
of the f-pack, and take the SG again. Repeat
until the SG goes up to the recommended level.
For some reason that neither winexpert nor I
can figure out, when I added my f-pack, the
SG went up much higher than it should
have done. I still have no explanation
for it, and winexpert's tech support can't
figure it out either (like I said, email me
and I'll send you the whole exchange if you
like. I won't post it here - I'm long winded
enough. ;^)
7) Other folks have reported difficulty with
this kit. In general, (as pp said
earlier), high-sugar fermentation is
finicky. Do a google search
for earlier threads in this NG for the
Brew King Port Kit, and you'll
find plenty of good advice.

Incidentally, I have one of the winexpert White Merlot kits in the
primary
as we speak. Anybody have any advice?

=geo

"geo" > wrote in news:1106357559.654026.260590
@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:

> ET asked:
>> What was the answer from customer service???? I have the exact same
> kit
>> in the first 4 days of fermentation right now....
>
> Send me email, and I'll send you the whole dialog. Too lengthy to
> post. To anybody who tries one of the port kits, I'd have the
> following advice:
> 1) When the instructions say "stir vigorously", they mean
> it. You should have a sore arm when you're done.
> (The instructions say to do this
> when you start the primary).
> 2) Watch the temperature. I let mine get too hot
> and the fermentation stuck. I was able to
> re-start by throwing another packet of yeast.
> During this kit, I discovered "fermometers"
> (plastic ribbon thermometers that stick to the
> outside of the carboy or the primary). They
> make it a lot easier to monitor the
> temperature without having to risk exposure
> to oxygen by opening it up to dip a dairy
> thermometer.
> 3) Use exactly the amount of water that the
> instructions say. The instructions are written
> in imperial gallons. If you can't find a
> measuring jug that's calibrated
> that way, don't just guess; take the time to
> do the math and use
> exactly as much water as the instructions say.
> 4) Hydrate the yeast before you throw it.
> 5) I've now had two winexpert kits that have stalled
> during primary fermentation - my retailer says
> that sometimes, if the kits sit on the shelf
> (or in the warehouse) too long, the yeast will
> weaken, especially if they're not refridgerated.
> He keeps yeast in a refridgerator in his
> shop, and has begun giving away a packet with
> each kit ("if your fermentation stalls, throw
> this in...") If your dealer isn't so generous,
> then buy an extra packet of yeast yourself.
> 6) Finally, when you add the f-pack to the wine,
> take the SG of the wine - then add about 1/3
> of the f-pack, and take the SG again. Repeat
> until the SG goes up to the recommended level.
> For some reason that neither winexpert nor I
> can figure out, when I added my f-pack, the
> SG went up much higher than it should
> have done. I still have no explanation
> for it, and winexpert's tech support can't
> figure it out either (like I said, email me
> and I'll send you the whole exchange if you
> like. I won't post it here - I'm long winded
> enough. ;^)
> 7) Other folks have reported difficulty with
> this kit. In general, (as pp said
> earlier), high-sugar fermentation is
> finicky. Do a google search
> for earlier threads in this NG for the
> Brew King Port Kit, and you'll
> find plenty of good advice.
>
> Incidentally, I have one of the winexpert White Merlot kits in the
> primary
> as we speak. Anybody have any advice?
>
> =geo
>
>


Thanks, that's a good summary. I just added my 1lb of corn sugar and am
hopping to see it start bubbling again. I'm glad I ran into this post
otherwise I would very likely have dumped the whole f-pack when the time
came.

ET

Continuing the saga of this relative beginner's Wine Expert port kit.
Hope all of you are finding this useful, or at least not too annoying.


My lastest question for the panel of experts is about clarification. I
stabilized the wine and added isinglass on Jan 9th. The instructions
said the wine should be "relatively clear" within 8 days. Per the
instructions, I racked it a week later on Jan 16th, leaving lots of
sediment behind. At that time, I topped the wine up with brandy. Took
a taste. *Very* Promising indeed. But it was a long way from
"relatively clear". The instructions say if it's not clear, leave it
for a further 14 days to "settle to a transparent clarity".

Two weeks later (Jan 30), I shined a flashlight through the narrowest
part of the neck of the carboy. The wine inside appeared clear and
quite a beautiful deep ruby color. Very promising. But when I moved
the light down to the shoulder of the carboy, it was completely
invisible from the other side. Using my racking cane, I drew off a
glass of the wine from about the middle of the carboy & held the glass
up to the light. Clear as mud.

Today (Feb 3) I checked it again - no appreciable change. There is a
fair amount of sediment at the bottom of the carboy. As of this
weekend, it will have been three weeks since the last racking. Should
I rack it again? Or leave it where it is and hope it clears? Should I
hit it with another dose of isinglass (or bentonite? chitosan?)