Hey I'll ask a question.

If we can I'd like to avoid the "it ain't port unless it's from
Portugal" arguement.

So, I'm in the process of making a port wine and need to fortify it.
Used everclear, and a mix of everclear and brandy in the past.

Been thinking about using everclear and 151 rum this year. Seems
like a little bit of rum would give a nice carmelly background to the
port.

Any impressions or thoughts appreciated.

Steve
Oregon

On Jan 2, 2:32*pm, spud > wrote:
> Hey I'll ask a question.
>
> If we can I'd like to avoid the "it ain't port unless it's from
> Portugal" arguement. *
>
> So, I'm in the process of making a port wine and need to fortify it.
> Used everclear, and a mix of everclear and brandy in the past.
>
> *Been thinking about using everclear and 151 rum this year. *Seems
> like a little bit of rum would give a nice carmelly background to the
> port. *
>
> Any impressions or thoughts appreciated.
>
> Steve
> Oregon

Port is the only wine I have never made but I doubt it would be
something that has to integrate well, why not try it on a sample to
see how it goes? It's funny you asked that, I was thinking about
fortifying a 'late harvest' with gin rather than everclear if it needs
it. Different can be good...

On Jan 2, 12:32*pm, spud > wrote:
> Hey I'll ask a question.
>
port is defined as:

wine fortified with brandy distilled from grapes (not everclear or
rum)
fortification is raising the alcohol level of the finished
product to more than 16 - but less than 24%

not from oporto? matters only if you are getting a new ttb label
approved.

use pearson square to calculate the additions.

downside to using rum and/or everclear is alteration of flavor.
start with good wine, achieve desired flavor make additions.

ted


> If we can I'd like to avoid the "it ain't port unless it's from
> Portugal" arguement. *
>
> So, I'm in the process of making a port wine and need to fortify it.
> Used everclear, and a mix of everclear and brandy in the past.
>
> *Been thinking about using everclear and 151 rum this year. *Seems
> like a little bit of rum would give a nice carmelly background to the
> port. *
>
> Any impressions or thoughts appreciated.
>
> Steve
> Oregon

On Jan 3, 5:14*am, " > wrote:
> On Jan 2, 12:32*pm, spud > wrote:> Hey I'll ask a question.
>
> port is defined as:
>
> wine fortified with brandy distilled from grapes (not everclear or
> rum)
> * * *fortification is raising the alcohol level of the finished
> product to more than 16 - but less than 24%
>
> not from oporto? matters only if you are getting a new ttb label
> approved.
>
> use pearson square to calculate the additions.
>
> downside to using rum and/or everclear is alteration of flavor.
> start with good wine, achieve desired flavor make additions.
>
> ted
>
>
>
> > If we can I'd like to avoid the "it ain't port unless it's from
> > Portugal" arguement. *
>
> > So, I'm in the process of making a port wine and need to fortify it.
> > Used everclear, and a mix of everclear and brandy in the past.
>
> > *Been thinking about using everclear and 151 rum this year. *Seems
> > like a little bit of rum would give a nice carmelly background to the
> > port. *
>
> > Any impressions or thoughts appreciated.
>
> > Steve
> > Oregon- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I don't know that that is the case Ted, when they talk about brandy as
a fortifier it isn't necessarily the stuff you buy, it's usually the
high alcohol distillate, it may or may not be aged in oak also. I
don't see much difference in everclear, grappa or pre aged brandy as
distilled other than the source of distillate in this application
since the goal is to boost alcohol. I do think everclear has a
'sharp' taste if overdone, oak aged brandy is softer to me. (I do a
little Sherry.)

On Sun, 3 Jan 2010 03:05:40 -0800 (PST), Joe Sallustio
>
>I don't know that that is the case Ted, when they talk about brandy as
>a fortifier it isn't necessarily the stuff you buy, it's usually the
>high alcohol distillate, it may or may not be aged in oak also. I
>don't see much difference in everclear, grappa or pre aged brandy as
>distilled other than the source of distillate in this application
>since the goal is to boost alcohol. I do think everclear has a
>'sharp' taste if overdone, oak aged brandy is softer to me. (I do a
>little Sherry.)


IIRC cavalierhome said the brandy used in Portugal was the first
ethanol cut off a pot distillation and ~70% or 80%. It ought to still
have some kind of flavor vs mutiple distillations for everclear (or
vodka too?).

I agree that just everclear is sharp. That's what went in in the
first batch, while good, not as good as it could be. Using a blend of
EC and brandy for the following year was much more interesting.

But, I'm thinking EC and 151 Rum might be a smoother or more appealing
mix for a homemade port. I like the idea of bench trials too,
probably could find a helper/taster or two...

Steve
Oregon

On Jan 3, 2:40*pm, spud > wrote:
> On Sun, 3 Jan 2010 03:05:40 -0800 (PST), Joe Sallustio
>
>
>
> >I don't know that that is the case Ted, when they talk about brandy as
> >a fortifier it isn't necessarily the stuff you buy, it's usually the
> >high alcohol distillate, it may or may not be aged in oak also. *I
> >don't see much difference in everclear, grappa or pre aged brandy as
> >distilled other than the source of distillate in this application
> >since the goal is to boost alcohol. *I do think everclear has a
> >'sharp' taste if overdone, oak aged brandy is softer to me. *(I do a
> >little Sherry.)
>
> IIRC cavalierhome said the brandy used in Portugal was the first
> ethanol cut off a pot distillation and ~70% or 80%. *It ought to still
> have some kind of flavor vs multiple distillations for everclear (or
> vodka too?). *
>
> I agree that just everclear is sharp. *That's what went in in the
> first batch, while good, not as good as it could be. *Using a blend of
> EC and brandy for the following year was much more interesting. *
>
> But, I'm thinking EC and 151 Rum might be a smoother or more appealing
> mix for a homemade port. *I like the idea of *bench trials too,
> probably could find a helper/taster or two... * * * * *
>
> Steve
> Oregon

That makes sense, I made limoncello the 'right' way using everclear
and then made it using 40% ABV vodka and the vodka was much better.
Then we tried good vodka and cheap vodka and to be honest there
wasn't much difference. Everclear is basically 95% ABV vodka so I
figured there wouldn't be a difference as long as I kept the alcohol
the same but there was a noticeable difference, it was odd, maybe
Pittsburgh water is just that bad.

I wonder what a dark rum would do...

Here is a link to the cover documents for alcoholic beverages.

http://news.reseau-concept.net/pls/n..._lang=33#20489

Joe

How long are you aging it for before you drink it? what are you using
for oak? I think this would be highly relevent to the discussion. I
have made it with both store bought brandy and the high alcohol
distillate. I think the best ingredient in both cases is time. Make
a lot and wait for a several years. if you try the rum let us know,
sounds interesting.




On Jan 3, 2:40*pm, spud > wrote:
> On Sun, 3 Jan 2010 03:05:40 -0800 (PST), Joe Sallustio
>
>
>
> >I don't know that that is the case Ted, when they talk about brandy as
> >a fortifier it isn't necessarily the stuff you buy, it's usually the
> >high alcohol distillate, it may or may not be aged in oak also. *I
> >don't see much difference in everclear, grappa or pre aged brandy as
> >distilled other than the source of distillate in this application
> >since the goal is to boost alcohol. *I do think everclear has a
> >'sharp' taste if overdone, oak aged brandy is softer to me. *(I do a
> >little Sherry.)
>
> IIRC cavalierhome said the brandy used in Portugal was the first
> ethanol cut off a pot distillation and ~70% or 80%. *It ought to still
> have some kind of flavor vs mutiple distillations for everclear (or
> vodka too?). *
>
> I agree that just everclear is sharp. *That's what went in in the
> first batch, while good, not as good as it could be. *Using a blend of
> EC and brandy for the following year was much more interesting. *
>
> But, I'm thinking EC and 151 Rum might be a smoother or more appealing
> mix for a homemade port. *I like the idea of *bench trials too,
> probably could find a helper/taster or two... * * * * *
>
> Steve
> Oregon

I have a friend who fortified cabernet Franc with cognac and sweetened with
grape concentrate from a cheaper kit and then aged for 1 year in a French
oak barrel. It's probably the best port I've ever tasted.
Cheers,
Steve
"spud" > wrote in message
...
> Hey I'll ask a question.
>
> If we can I'd like to avoid the "it ain't port unless it's from
> Portugal" arguement.
>
> So, I'm in the process of making a port wine and need to fortify it.
> Used everclear, and a mix of everclear and brandy in the past.
>
> Been thinking about using everclear and 151 rum this year. Seems
> like a little bit of rum would give a nice carmelly background to the
> port.
>
> Any impressions or thoughts appreciated.
>
> Steve
> Oregon
>
>

*Been thinking about using everclear and 151 rum this year. *Seems
> like a little bit of rum would give a nice carmelly background to the
> port. *
>

I agree with ted. Don't fortify unless you really think your port
needs it. I make port every fall/winter and have found that using
something like EJ Brandy does not improve the port. Brandy is over-
powering and so if I want it stronger, I will referment the port by
adding several cups(per gallon) of light malt and allowing nature to
take it's course. BY THE WAY, one ought to allow Port to aged about 6
months minimum to really determine it's qualities AND NO i am not
from Portugal.

On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 14:27:05 -0800 (PST), Strongarm
> wrote:

snip
> I will referment the port by
>adding several cups(per gallon) of light malt and allowing nature to
>take it's course.
snip

^^^^^
That is an interesting idea...

Steve
Oregon

Yes, what is used in Portugal is "brandy" in the sense that it is
distilled alcohol produced from fermented grapes. It is fairly raw
stuff, about 70% to 80% alcohol. They use fermented grapes because
that's what they have available - wines that don't meet the quality
standards, and pomace after the press process. It isn't oak aged,
colored brown or watered down to 40% (80 Proof) like the "brandy" we
find in liquor stores in the States. It's "firewater" - a lot closer
to Everclear or moonshine than a commercial product.

I've used Bacardi 151 rum to fortify several batches of port-style and
sherry-style wines, with good results. The high alcohol level means
you are using MUCH less to achieve a given change in overall proof
(less dilution of flavor). The rum by itself has a very mild flavor -
it blends well with just about anything, and when used with port is
just not detectable - the stronger flavors of the port completely
dominate the mixture.

I've also used Everclear with good results, but less often, as I can't
buy it in Minnesota. A high-proof vodka would work about as well, I
expect. The two criteria I have are 1) high alcohol level, so as to
minimize dilution, and 2) no strong flavors that might clash with the
wine. So I wouldn't recommend gin, or tequila, or Scotch whiskey.
"Brandy" or bourbon whiskey would be a second choice, if I couldn't
get vodka or rum.

Doug

What is used in commercial port making is colorless, odorless and very
high proof. It has been distilled at least twice. Not all stills can
process both pomace and liquid but the better ones yield a neutral
brandy between 150-180 proof.
just sayin

On Jan 3, 12:40*pm, spud > wrote:
> On Sun, 3 Jan 2010 03:05:40 -0800 (PST), Joe Sallustio
>
>
>
> >I don't know that that is the case Ted, when they talk about brandy as
> >a fortifier it isn't necessarily the stuff you buy, it's usually the
> >high alcohol distillate, it may or may not be aged in oak also. *I
> >don't see much difference in everclear, grappa or pre aged brandy as
> >distilled other than the source of distillate in this application
> >since the goal is to boost alcohol. *I do think everclear has a
> >'sharp' taste if overdone, oak aged brandy is softer to me. *(I do a
> >little Sherry.)
>
> IIRC cavalierhome said the brandy used in Portugal was the first
> ethanol cut off a pot distillation and ~70% or 80%. *It ought to still
> have some kind of flavor vs mutiple distillations for everclear (or
> vodka too?). *
>
> I agree that just everclear is sharp. *That's what went in in the
> first batch, while good, not as good as it could be. *Using a blend of
> EC and brandy for the following year was much more interesting. *
>
> But, I'm thinking EC and 151 Rum might be a smoother or more appealing
> mix for a homemade port. *I like the idea of *bench trials too,
> probably could find a helper/taster or two... * * * * *
>
> Steve
> Oregon

I have 2 questions: A) what do you use to stop the primary fermentation or
is do you goose up the sweetness of the must so that the yeast stalls out,
and 2)would that be dry malt extract or liquid malt extract?


"Strongarm" > wrote in message
...
Been thinking about using everclear and 151 rum this year. Seems
> like a little bit of rum would give a nice carmelly background to the
> port.
>

I agree with ted. Don't fortify unless you really think your port
needs it. I make port every fall/winter and have found that using
something like EJ Brandy does not improve the port. Brandy is over-
powering and so if I want it stronger, I will referment the port by
adding several cups(per gallon) of light malt and allowing nature to
take it's course. BY THE WAY, one ought to allow Port to aged about 6
months minimum to really determine it's qualities AND NO i am not
from Portugal.

The ferment stops because of the high alcohol addition. So take about
2/3 of wine that has fermented about half way, and add 1/3 of alcohol
to it and call it a day. a while later, rack and add oak.

I am also expirmenting with making Angelica, pronounced Anjleeka. It
is a Portuguese homemade port-like recipe. You make it like port but
dont ferment the wine at all. start with juice, add alcohol (same
ratio) and also add brown sugar about maybe a pound of it for a 5
gallon carboy. I have had excellent angelicas and some not so good
ones, I have yet to see where this will net out.

m


On Jan 6, 4:09*pm, "bobdrob" > wrote:
> I have 2 questions: A) what do you use to stop the primary fermentation or
> is do you goose up the sweetness of the must so that the yeast stalls out,
> and *2)would that be dry malt extract or liquid malt extract?
>
> "Strongarm" > wrote in message
>
> ...


> Been thinking about using everclear and 151 rum this year. Seems
>
> > like a little bit of rum would give a nice carmelly background to the
> > port.
>
> I agree with ted. *Don't fortify unless you really think your port
> needs it. *I make port every fall/winter and have found that using
> something like EJ Brandy does not improve the port. *Brandy is over-
> powering and so if I want it stronger, I will referment the port by
> adding several cups(per gallon) of light malt and allowing nature to
> take it's course. *BY THE WAY, one ought to allow Port to aged about 6
> months minimum to really determine it's qualities *AND NO i am not
> from Portugal.

are you saying that for every 2 gallons of must (1/2 fermented being when
the temperature has spiked?) you add 1 gallon of "rocket fuel?" And
couldn't one use grappa or marc instead of EC?


"marc" > wrote in message
...
The ferment stops because of the high alcohol addition. So take about
2/3 of wine that has fermented about half way, and add 1/3 of alcohol
to it and call it a day. a while later, rack and add oak.

I am also expirmenting with making Angelica, pronounced Anjleeka. It
is a Portuguese homemade port-like recipe. You make it like port but
dont ferment the wine at all. start with juice, add alcohol (same
ratio) and also add brown sugar about maybe a pound of it for a 5
gallon carboy. I have had excellent angelicas and some not so good
ones, I have yet to see where this will net out.

m


On Jan 6, 4:09 pm, "bobdrob" > wrote:
> I have 2 questions: A) what do you use to stop the primary fermentation or
> is do you goose up the sweetness of the must so that the yeast stalls out,
> and 2)would that be dry malt extract or liquid malt extract?
>
> "Strongarm" > wrote in message
>
> ...


> Been thinking about using everclear and 151 rum this year. Seems
>
> > like a little bit of rum would give a nice carmelly background to the
> > port.
>
> I agree with ted. Don't fortify unless you really think your port
> needs it. I make port every fall/winter and have found that using
> something like EJ Brandy does not improve the port. Brandy is over-
> powering and so if I want it stronger, I will referment the port by
> adding several cups(per gallon) of light malt and allowing nature to
> take it's course. BY THE WAY, one ought to allow Port to aged about 6
> months minimum to really determine it's qualities AND NO i am not
> from Portugal.