I started making kits one year ago. So far I've bottled 2 whites and 4
reds. I have another 5 reds still bulk aging. The whites, both
chardonnays, have come out great. I'm having a bit of trouble with the reds
and I'm hoping someone out there has some advice.

I've been using only high-end kits. I'm following the directions, for the
most part. On a couple of kits I've added extra oak cubes. I've added a
bit of tannin to a couple. I've bulk aged for between 4 and 8 months. My
basement is almost always between 60 and 65 degrees.

The problem is too much fizz on the tongue when I open a bottle to drink.
This is still true of wine that has been sitting in bottles for months. For
example, last night I opened a bottle of chianti that I had in the carboy
for 7 months followed by 5 months in the bottle. Fizzy. However, if I pour
the wine into a decanteur and let it sit for an hour or more, then the fizz
is gone and the wine is anywhere from good to excellent (depends on the
batch).

Any ideas?


Thanks,
Dave

With reds in particular it is important to degas very thoroughly.
Personally, even though I bulk age for over 9 months, I really make sure
that I have removed as much of the CO2 as possible before racking into my
bulk aging carboy. I have found that bulk aging alone, in glass, under a
fermentation lock as I do, is not enough to ensure that the gas has
dissipated on its own.

Some white wines, especially Muscadet, or Sauvignon Blanc, are enhanced
with a touch of "pettilance"
-- a good hint of fizz -- and when I make those particular wines I don't
degas at all -- but the bulk aging alone reduces the CO2 to the right
level. It is a bit hit and miss but most of the time it works for me. And in
general white wines don't suffer in the same way as reds through excessive
CO2!

So with your reds, once they have been bottled, will retain any CO2 that is
remaining in the wine. So they benefit by being decanted and left at room
temperature for about an hour before drinking to let the gas dissipate. The
warming of the wine promotes a quicker dissipation of gas too. It is
probably why decanters where so popular in times gone by - and not just for
ensuring that the lees in the bottles remained there!

HTH!
--
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire, England
Remove "PSANTISPAM" from my address line to reply.
All outgoing mail is scanned by Norton
Anti Virus for your protection too!
"Dave" > wrote in message
.. .
>I started making kits one year ago. So far I've bottled 2 whites and 4
> reds. I have another 5 reds still bulk aging. The whites, both

><snip><snip>
>
> The problem is too much fizz on the tongue when I open a bottle to drink.
> This is still true of wine that has been sitting in bottles for months.
> For
> example, last night I opened a bottle of chianti that I had in the carboy
> for 7 months followed by 5 months in the bottle. Fizzy. However, if I
> pour
> the wine into a decanteur and let it sit for an hour or more, then the
> fizz
> is gone and the wine is anywhere from good to excellent (depends on the
> batch).
>
> Any ideas?
>
>
> Thanks,
> Dave
>
>
>

Dave, Another thought is that you are having a very mild fermentation in the
bottle from a small amount of residual sugars. Have you noticed any
sediment? Otherwise it is a degassing issue as Trevor stated. HTH
John Dixon
"Dave" > wrote in message
.. .
> I started making kits one year ago. So far I've bottled 2 whites and 4
> reds. I have another 5 reds still bulk aging. The whites, both
> chardonnays, have come out great. I'm having a bit of trouble with the
reds
> and I'm hoping someone out there has some advice.
>
> I've been using only high-end kits. I'm following the directions, for the
> most part. On a couple of kits I've added extra oak cubes. I've added a
> bit of tannin to a couple. I've bulk aged for between 4 and 8 months. My
> basement is almost always between 60 and 65 degrees.
>
> The problem is too much fizz on the tongue when I open a bottle to drink.
> This is still true of wine that has been sitting in bottles for months.
For
> example, last night I opened a bottle of chianti that I had in the carboy
> for 7 months followed by 5 months in the bottle. Fizzy. However, if I
pour
> the wine into a decanteur and let it sit for an hour or more, then the
fizz
> is gone and the wine is anywhere from good to excellent (depends on the
> batch).
>
> Any ideas?
>
>
> Thanks,
> Dave
>
>
>

How late in the bulk aging process can you stir/shake to degas?

How late in the bulk aging process can you stir/shake to degas?

Hmmm. I suppose it doesn't really matter providing that your readjust the
SO2 to prevent the onset of oxidisation.
That being said, with kit wines in particular, I am a great believer in
leaving well alone with minimum fiddling and re racking etc once
fermentation has finished. I only make 23 litre batches and I suspect that
larger volumes are less susceptible to "interference" Since degassing also
helps the process of the lees settling out, it seems to be common sense to
do it earlier rather than later.
After degassing I will normally leave a kit wine for about a month so that
most of the lees have settled and then rack to a clean, sanitised carboy.
Hopefully, after that I would not rack more than one more time and that
only if the sediments looked to be more than a "dusting". With red coloured
country wines in particular I bulk age for at least 2 years ( my various
Blackberry/Elderberry combinations) which certainly ensures a low level of
retained CO2
I rarely use finings and I haven't filtered in eons. Even my fortified
elderberry chugs along on its own throwing of sediment usually for 2 or 3
years into maturity ( I aim to bottle at about the 3 or 4 year point or at
least break the 23 litres down into 5 x 1 gal ( imp) carboys so that I
bottle 6 at a time as needed)

--
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire, England
Remove "PSANTISPAM" from my address line to reply.
All outgoing mail is scanned by Norton
Anti Virus for your protection too!

"DJ" > wrote in message
...
> How late in the bulk aging process can you stir/shake to degas?
>
>

Trevor,

Thanks for the long reply.

I'm guessing that it's degassing. I've been following the advice of this
newsgroup and other sources that indicate manual degassing isn't necessary
if it's left to bulk age long enough. Now your response has me wondering
about that.

Are you saying that you degas before transfering from the primary bucket
into a carboy? I'm usually doing that transfer about a week after adding
the yeast. Do you use a degassing wand attached to an electric drill (or
equivalent) or do you get good results with a vigorous stir?

Let's say that I taste a wine that has been sitting in a carboy for 4 months
or so and I detect CO2 (which is true for me at the moment). Any advice on
degassing at this stage?

Dave

"pinky" > wrote in message
...
> With reds in particular it is important to degas very thoroughly.
> Personally, even though I bulk age for over 9 months, I really make sure
> that I have removed as much of the CO2 as possible before racking into my
> bulk aging carboy. I have found that bulk aging alone, in glass, under a
> fermentation lock as I do, is not enough to ensure that the gas has
> dissipated on its own.
>
> Some white wines, especially Muscadet, or Sauvignon Blanc, are enhanced
> with a touch of "pettilance"
> -- a good hint of fizz -- and when I make those particular wines I don't
> degas at all -- but the bulk aging alone reduces the CO2 to the right
> level. It is a bit hit and miss but most of the time it works for me. And
in
> general white wines don't suffer in the same way as reds through excessive
> CO2!
>
> So with your reds, once they have been bottled, will retain any CO2 that
is
> remaining in the wine. So they benefit by being decanted and left at room
> temperature for about an hour before drinking to let the gas dissipate.
The
> warming of the wine promotes a quicker dissipation of gas too. It is
> probably why decanters where so popular in times gone by - and not just
for
> ensuring that the lees in the bottles remained there!
>
> HTH!
> --
> Trevor A Panther
> In South Yorkshire, England
> Remove "PSANTISPAM" from my address line to reply.
> All outgoing mail is scanned by Norton
> Anti Virus for your protection too!
> "Dave" > wrote in message
> .. .
> >I started making kits one year ago. So far I've bottled 2 whites and 4
> > reds. I have another 5 reds still bulk aging. The whites, both
>
> ><snip><snip>
> >
> > The problem is too much fizz on the tongue when I open a bottle to
drink.
> > This is still true of wine that has been sitting in bottles for months.
> > For
> > example, last night I opened a bottle of chianti that I had in the
carboy
> > for 7 months followed by 5 months in the bottle. Fizzy. However, if I
> > pour
> > the wine into a decanteur and let it sit for an hour or more, then the
> > fizz
> > is gone and the wine is anywhere from good to excellent (depends on the
> > batch).
> >
> > Any ideas?
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Dave
> >
> >
> >
>
>

John,
I occasionally notice a small bit of sediment. I've been assuming that was
a byproduct of not filtering or fining.
Dave

"J Dixon" > wrote in message
...
> Dave, Another thought is that you are having a very mild fermentation in
the
> bottle from a small amount of residual sugars. Have you noticed any
> sediment? Otherwise it is a degassing issue as Trevor stated. HTH
> John Dixon
> "Dave" > wrote in message
> .. .
> > I started making kits one year ago. So far I've bottled 2 whites and 4
> > reds. I have another 5 reds still bulk aging. The whites, both
> > chardonnays, have come out great. I'm having a bit of trouble with the
> reds
> > and I'm hoping someone out there has some advice.
> >
> > I've been using only high-end kits. I'm following the directions, for
the
> > most part. On a couple of kits I've added extra oak cubes. I've added
a
> > bit of tannin to a couple. I've bulk aged for between 4 and 8 months.
My
> > basement is almost always between 60 and 65 degrees.
> >
> > The problem is too much fizz on the tongue when I open a bottle to
drink.
> > This is still true of wine that has been sitting in bottles for months.
> For
> > example, last night I opened a bottle of chianti that I had in the
carboy
> > for 7 months followed by 5 months in the bottle. Fizzy. However, if I
> pour
> > the wine into a decanteur and let it sit for an hour or more, then the
> fizz
> > is gone and the wine is anywhere from good to excellent (depends on the
> > batch).
> >
> > Any ideas?
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Dave
> >
> >
> >
>
>

> Are you saying that you degas before transferring from the primary bucket
> into a carboy? I'm usually doing that transfer about a week after adding
> the yeast. Do you use a degassing wand attached to an electric drill (or
> equivalent) or do you get good results with a vigorous stir?

NO, NO, NO, NO!!! You do not degas until all fermentation has
ceased!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Clearly it would have no effect since the continuing
fermentation will only create more CO2 and goodness know what would happen
to your wine.

When fermentation has stop I rack off the debris of lees dead yeast and wood
chip/beads or whatever into a clean carboy and then degas!

But I do use a "wand" on my electric drill to degas.

I see little point in postponing the degassing until 4 months down the line.
I don't know which kits you are using but you are still very much on the
initial learning curve. It is my strong recommendation to follow the
instructions given by the kit. Certainly the more expensive/"better" kits
make quite acceptable red wine and excellent white wine. Manufacturers like
"Winexpert" ( Brew King as was) have spent a lot of time, effort and money
to produce a varietal wine kit and include detailed instructions which will
give you good results all the time.

I have been making wine for some 35 years -- in early day it was always
"country" fruit wines and when "real" wine kits emerged they were pretty
basic and rough! But there are so many kits available these days and ,
especially with white wines, you can achieve a quality in your home made
wine that equals and even beats some commercially produced wine.

If you are fortunate enough to live within a wine grape growing "zone" you
will be able to buy you own grapes (or even grow them yourself) or freshly
pressed grape juice.

It really is worth reading Berry's book " First Steps in Winemaking" but
it is in Imperial measurements and follows the British seasons. Terry
Garey's book "Home Winemaking" is good and is easy to read and is based on
US units. Also visit Jack Kellers website http://winemaking.jackkeller.net
which has a huge amount of information ( and he is also very helpful on this
group too).

It is a most fascinating hobby and bears fruitful results a well!

--
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire, England
Remove "PSANTISPAM" from my address line to reply.
All outgoing mail is scanned by Norton
Anti Virus for your protection too!
"Dave" > wrote in message
...
> Trevor,
>
> Thanks for the long reply.
>
<snip><snip>

> Are you saying that you degas before transferring from the primary bucket
> into a carboy? I'm usually doing that transfer about a week after adding
> the yeast. Do you use a degassing wand attached to an electric drill (or
> equivalent) or do you get good results with a vigorous stir?

NO, NO, NO, NO!!! You do not degas until all fermentation has
ceased!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Clearly it would have no effect since the continuing
fermentation will only create more CO2 and goodness know what would happen
to your wine.

When fermentation has stop I rack off the debris of lees dead yeast and wood
chip/beads or whatever into a clean carboy and then degas!

But I do use a "wand" on my electric drill to degas.

I see little point in postponing the degassing until 4 months down the line.
I don't know which kits you are using but you are still very much on the
initial learning curve. It is my strong recommendation to follow the
instructions given by the kit. Certainly the more expensive/"better" kits
make quite acceptable red wine and excellent white wine. Manufacturers like
"Winexpert" ( Brew King as was) have spent a lot of time, effort and money
to produce a varietal wine kit and include detailed instructions which will
give you good results all the time.

I have been making wine for some 35 years -- in early day it was always
"country" fruit wines and when "real" wine kits emerged they were pretty
basic and rough! But there are so many kits available these days and ,
especially with white wines, you can achieve a quality in your home made
wine that equals and even beats some commercially produced wine.

If you are fortunate enough to live within a wine grape growing "zone" you
will be able to buy you own grapes (or even grow them yourself) or freshly
pressed grape juice.

It really is worth reading Berry's book " First Steps in Winemaking" but
it is in Imperial measurements and follows the British seasons. Terry
Garey's book "Home Winemaking" is good and is easy to read and is based on
US units. Also visit Jack Kellers website http://winemaking.jackkeller.net
which has a huge amount of information ( and he is also very helpful on this
group too).

It is a most fascinating hobby and bears fruitful results a well!

--
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire, England
Remove "PSANTISPAM" from my address line to reply.
All outgoing mail is scanned by Norton
Anti Virus for your protection too!
"Dave" > wrote in message
...
> Trevor,
>
> Thanks for the long reply.
>
<snip><snip>

"Dave" > wrote in message
...
> Trevor,
>
> Thanks for the long reply.
>
> I'm guessing that it's degassing. I've been following the advice of this
> newsgroup and other sources that indicate manual degassing isn't necessary
> if it's left to bulk age long enough. Now your response has me wondering
> about that.
>
> Are you saying that you degas before transfering from the primary bucket
> into a carboy? I'm usually doing that transfer about a week after adding
> the yeast. Do you use a degassing wand attached to an electric drill (or
> equivalent) or do you get good results with a vigorous stir?
>
> Let's say that I taste a wine that has been sitting in a carboy for 4
months
> or so and I detect CO2 (which is true for me at the moment). Any advice
on
> degassing at this stage?

SCyoooze me fer buttin in:
I have =never= degassed. I just let it settle fully in the primary
carboy, to a clear finish, and add campden tablets and let it clarify again,
it takes months. Then, I rack it to a secondary carboy and add sorbate. When
it is clear as glass ( I use a flashlight to see through it) I bottle it.
Takes almost a year. But then, I am a patient man....
My tuppence,
Bob<><
>
> Dave
>
> "pinky" > wrote in message
> ...
> > With reds in particular it is important to degas very thoroughly.
> > Personally, even though I bulk age for over 9 months, I really make sure
> > that I have removed as much of the CO2 as possible before racking into
my
> > bulk aging carboy. I have found that bulk aging alone, in glass, under a
> > fermentation lock as I do, is not enough to ensure that the gas has
> > dissipated on its own.
> >
> > Some white wines, especially Muscadet, or Sauvignon Blanc, are enhanced
> > with a touch of "pettilance"
> > -- a good hint of fizz -- and when I make those particular wines I don't
> > degas at all -- but the bulk aging alone reduces the CO2 to the right
> > level. It is a bit hit and miss but most of the time it works for me.
And
> in
> > general white wines don't suffer in the same way as reds through
excessive
> > CO2!
> >
> > So with your reds, once they have been bottled, will retain any CO2 that
> is
> > remaining in the wine. So they benefit by being decanted and left at
room
> > temperature for about an hour before drinking to let the gas dissipate.
> The
> > warming of the wine promotes a quicker dissipation of gas too. It is
> > probably why decanters where so popular in times gone by - and not just
> for
> > ensuring that the lees in the bottles remained there!
> >
> > HTH!
> > --
> > Trevor A Panther
> > In South Yorkshire, England
> > Remove "PSANTISPAM" from my address line to reply.
> > All outgoing mail is scanned by Norton
> > Anti Virus for your protection too!
> > "Dave" > wrote in message
> > .. .
> > >I started making kits one year ago. So far I've bottled 2 whites and 4
> > > reds. I have another 5 reds still bulk aging. The whites, both
> >
> > ><snip><snip>
> > >
> > > The problem is too much fizz on the tongue when I open a bottle to
> drink.
> > > This is still true of wine that has been sitting in bottles for
months.
> > > For
> > > example, last night I opened a bottle of chianti that I had in the
> carboy
> > > for 7 months followed by 5 months in the bottle. Fizzy. However, if
I
> > > pour
> > > the wine into a decanteur and let it sit for an hour or more, then the
> > > fizz
> > > is gone and the wine is anywhere from good to excellent (depends on
the
> > > batch).
> > >
> > > Any ideas?
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Dave
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

"Dave" > wrote in message
...
> Trevor,
>
> Thanks for the long reply.
>
> I'm guessing that it's degassing. I've been following the advice of this
> newsgroup and other sources that indicate manual degassing isn't necessary
> if it's left to bulk age long enough. Now your response has me wondering
> about that.
>
> Are you saying that you degas before transfering from the primary bucket
> into a carboy? I'm usually doing that transfer about a week after adding
> the yeast. Do you use a degassing wand attached to an electric drill (or
> equivalent) or do you get good results with a vigorous stir?
>
> Let's say that I taste a wine that has been sitting in a carboy for 4
months
> or so and I detect CO2 (which is true for me at the moment). Any advice
on
> degassing at this stage?

SCyoooze me fer buttin in:
I have =never= degassed. I just let it settle fully in the primary
carboy, to a clear finish, and add campden tablets and let it clarify again,
it takes months. Then, I rack it to a secondary carboy and add sorbate. When
it is clear as glass ( I use a flashlight to see through it) I bottle it.
Takes almost a year. But then, I am a patient man....
My tuppence,
Bob<><
>
> Dave
>
> "pinky" > wrote in message
> ...
> > With reds in particular it is important to degas very thoroughly.
> > Personally, even though I bulk age for over 9 months, I really make sure
> > that I have removed as much of the CO2 as possible before racking into
my
> > bulk aging carboy. I have found that bulk aging alone, in glass, under a
> > fermentation lock as I do, is not enough to ensure that the gas has
> > dissipated on its own.
> >
> > Some white wines, especially Muscadet, or Sauvignon Blanc, are enhanced
> > with a touch of "pettilance"
> > -- a good hint of fizz -- and when I make those particular wines I don't
> > degas at all -- but the bulk aging alone reduces the CO2 to the right
> > level. It is a bit hit and miss but most of the time it works for me.
And
> in
> > general white wines don't suffer in the same way as reds through
excessive
> > CO2!
> >
> > So with your reds, once they have been bottled, will retain any CO2 that
> is
> > remaining in the wine. So they benefit by being decanted and left at
room
> > temperature for about an hour before drinking to let the gas dissipate.
> The
> > warming of the wine promotes a quicker dissipation of gas too. It is
> > probably why decanters where so popular in times gone by - and not just
> for
> > ensuring that the lees in the bottles remained there!
> >
> > HTH!
> > --
> > Trevor A Panther
> > In South Yorkshire, England
> > Remove "PSANTISPAM" from my address line to reply.
> > All outgoing mail is scanned by Norton
> > Anti Virus for your protection too!
> > "Dave" > wrote in message
> > .. .
> > >I started making kits one year ago. So far I've bottled 2 whites and 4
> > > reds. I have another 5 reds still bulk aging. The whites, both
> >
> > ><snip><snip>
> > >
> > > The problem is too much fizz on the tongue when I open a bottle to
> drink.
> > > This is still true of wine that has been sitting in bottles for
months.
> > > For
> > > example, last night I opened a bottle of chianti that I had in the
> carboy
> > > for 7 months followed by 5 months in the bottle. Fizzy. However, if
I
> > > pour
> > > the wine into a decanteur and let it sit for an hour or more, then the
> > > fizz
> > > is gone and the wine is anywhere from good to excellent (depends on
the
> > > batch).
> > >
> > > Any ideas?
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Dave
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

I have a cheep kit of whilte currently with somewhat the same
problem... Not sure yet what it is... it was on sale .. really cheep..
might have been old stock... like maybe an old yeast... It started off
normal... then slowed and stopped a little sooner than normal for
time... like 2 weeks in the carboy instead of the normal 3-4.. this
was 2 months ago. I racked it yesrterday... first racking.. hmmmmm
fizz on the tongue... somewhat sweet still... I should have checked
the SG to make sure.. but I think it is stuck it came with a
spagnols yeast.. I added a fresh packet of EC1118... and stired...
poooooof it puked all over.. A day later now it has settled down
and brewing slowly again ... we shall see.

The degassing for me is a natural I do a final rack... add a tsp of
pot. sorbate and stirr hard. till clear... then bottle.

cheers
Marv




On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 19:41:23 GMT, "Dar V" > wrote:

>Dave,
>I agree with the others. I make country wines in 1 gallon batches. My
>first wines turned out to be fizzy too, probably too much carbon dioxide
>dissolved in the wine. I was surfing the web at the time and found this
>step by step instruction on bottling homemade wine on the David Butler
>Website. Step 4 & 5 talk about splitting the wine into two demijohns and
>agitating the wine to disperse the Carbon Dioxide for about a minute or so
>to avoid the fizzy(s), and then proceeding to bottle the wine. I have done
>that ever since, and have avoided fizzy wine. The only time it didn't work
>(or wouldn't have worked) was when a batch started to ferment again after I
>had bottled it. The result that time was almost Champaign-like wine (others
>call them bottle bombs). Now I don't do wine kits, so I guess I would
>follow the other poster's advice on degassing since he has experience with
>wine kits. Good-luck.
>Darlene
>
>"Dave" > wrote in message
. ..
>>I started making kits one year ago. So far I've bottled 2 whites and 4
>> reds. I have another 5 reds still bulk aging. The whites, both
>> chardonnays, have come out great. I'm having a bit of trouble with the
>> reds
>> and I'm hoping someone out there has some advice.
>>
>> I've been using only high-end kits. I'm following the directions, for the
>> most part. On a couple of kits I've added extra oak cubes. I've added a
>> bit of tannin to a couple. I've bulk aged for between 4 and 8 months. My
>> basement is almost always between 60 and 65 degrees.
>>
>> The problem is too much fizz on the tongue when I open a bottle to drink.
>> This is still true of wine that has been sitting in bottles for months.
>> For
>> example, last night I opened a bottle of chianti that I had in the carboy
>> for 7 months followed by 5 months in the bottle. Fizzy. However, if I
>> pour
>> the wine into a decanteur and let it sit for an hour or more, then the
>> fizz
>> is gone and the wine is anywhere from good to excellent (depends on the
>> batch).
>>
>> Any ideas?
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Dave
>>
>>
>>
>