I need help figuring out what is happening with a batch of Viognier. My
problem, in a nutshell, is that it's still sending up tiny bubbles after almost
3 months.

I started with a bach of frozen juice from Brehm. The pH and TA were out of
whack, so I had to add a fair amount of tartaric. I also added lysozyme at the
onset.

After all of the adjustments, the pH was respectable at 3.6 and the TA was
about .55. I fermented at 55 degrees with Premier Cuvee yeast and after about
6 weeks, my SG was down to 0.995. At that point there was still an occasional
bubble. By the way, I've maintained the SO2 at 50 ppm all along. After about
8 weeks, still occasional tiny bubbles and the wine was turbid. I fined with
Bentonite without much of a result, and after another 2 weeks, I added some
isinglass. Both before and after the isinglass, as a stirred the wine, I
created ENORMOUS amounts of carbonation with the wine bubbling up and over the
top of the carboy...to the point of a layer of foam of about 3 inches. It's
still bubbling pretty vigorously. The SG is 0.992 so I'm sure everything is
fermented. At this pH, I boosted the SO2 to as high as 70 ppm.

Any suggestions? I'm now about 11 weeks and it's still really bubbly....looks
like champagne.

Thanks,

Lee

"LG1111" > wrote in message
...
> I need help figuring out what is happening with a batch of Viognier. My
> problem, in a nutshell, is that it's still sending up tiny bubbles after
almost
> 3 months.
>
> I started with a bach of frozen juice from Brehm. The pH and TA were out
of
> whack, so I had to add a fair amount of tartaric. I also added lysozyme
at the
> onset.
>
> After all of the adjustments, the pH was respectable at 3.6 and the TA was
> about .55. I fermented at 55 degrees with Premier Cuvee yeast and after
about
> 6 weeks, my SG was down to 0.995. At that point there was still an
occasional
> bubble. By the way, I've maintained the SO2 at 50 ppm all along. After
about
> 8 weeks, still occasional tiny bubbles and the wine was turbid. I fined
with
> Bentonite without much of a result, and after another 2 weeks, I added
some
> isinglass. Both before and after the isinglass, as a stirred the wine, I
> created ENORMOUS amounts of carbonation with the wine bubbling up and over
the
> top of the carboy...to the point of a layer of foam of about 3 inches.
It's
> still bubbling pretty vigorously. The SG is 0.992 so I'm sure everything
is
> fermented. At this pH, I boosted the SO2 to as high as 70 ppm.
>
> Any suggestions? I'm now about 11 weeks and it's still really
bubbly....looks
> like champagne.

Sounds like it's going ML on you, despite your efforts to prevent that.
It's pretty difficult to prevent ML in high pH wines. Do a chromatography
on it to be sure.

Tom S

Lee,

Have you continued to keep the wine in the 55 degree space? I think that at
low temps the CO2 from fermentation will remain dissolved in the wine and
you'll only get it to degas completely by bringing the temp up. That
happened to me with a Chard that I fermented at 57 degrees - it took quite a
while, weeks, to get rid of all the CO2 once I brought it up to room temp
(about 70 degrees).

Ed


"LG1111" > wrote in message
...
> I need help figuring out what is happening with a batch of Viognier. My
> problem, in a nutshell, is that it's still sending up tiny bubbles after
almost
> 3 months.
>
> I started with a bach of frozen juice from Brehm. The pH and TA were out
of
> whack, so I had to add a fair amount of tartaric. I also added lysozyme
at the
> onset.
>
> After all of the adjustments, the pH was respectable at 3.6 and the TA was
> about .55. I fermented at 55 degrees with Premier Cuvee yeast and after
about
> 6 weeks, my SG was down to 0.995. At that point there was still an
occasional
> bubble. By the way, I've maintained the SO2 at 50 ppm all along. After
about
> 8 weeks, still occasional tiny bubbles and the wine was turbid. I fined
with
> Bentonite without much of a result, and after another 2 weeks, I added
some
> isinglass. Both before and after the isinglass, as a stirred the wine, I
> created ENORMOUS amounts of carbonation with the wine bubbling up and over
the
> top of the carboy...to the point of a layer of foam of about 3 inches.
It's
> still bubbling pretty vigorously. The SG is 0.992 so I'm sure everything
is
> fermented. At this pH, I boosted the SO2 to as high as 70 ppm.
>
> Any suggestions? I'm now about 11 weeks and it's still really
bubbly....looks
> like champagne.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Lee

Thanks for your help. It's been at about 65-68 degrees for about 3 weeks, and
this is when the bubbling started again. I'm not sure what it is. Tom's
suggestion that it might be MLF is possible (I can't disprove it) but with my
MLF's, the bubbles seems to creep up the sides of the carboys. These bubbles
are just coming up the center of the carboy, like CO2, so I think this is the
better possibility. One way or another, I suspect that the only course of
action at this point is to wait. It's sulfate protected, so no harm can happen
(famous last words).

This was the first year that I fermented my whites at 55 degrees. For those
who haven't done it, I think (it's hard to compare one year to another), that
the wines are MUCH fruitier and deeper in bouquet and flavor. It took about
6-8 weeks for the primary to be done, but I think it's worth it.

Lee

Lee,

I'd agree on the positive results of a low temperature ferment given my
experience with Chardonnay at low temps. Raising the temp could allow an
MLF to start, but if you're wine is adequately sulfited, then it's most
likely CO2 coming out and not a MLF. After mine warmed, every day or so I
would give my carboy a shake (but didn't open it) and this seemed to help
get the CO2 moving - LOTS of bubbles came up when I did that (also different
from my experience with a MLF).

Hope it turns out great!

Ed

> Thanks for your help. It's been at about 65-68 degrees for about 3 weeks,
and
> this is when the bubbling started again. I'm not sure what it is. Tom's
> suggestion that it might be MLF is possible (I can't disprove it) but with
my
> MLF's, the bubbles seems to creep up the sides of the carboys. These
bubbles
> are just coming up the center of the carboy, like CO2, so I think this is
the
> better possibility. One way or another, I suspect that the only course of
> action at this point is to wait. It's sulfate protected, so no harm can
happen
> (famous last words).
>
> This was the first year that I fermented my whites at 55 degrees. For
those
> who haven't done it, I think (it's hard to compare one year to another),
that
> the wines are MUCH fruitier and deeper in bouquet and flavor. It took
about
> 6-8 weeks for the primary to be done, but I think it's worth it.
>
> Lee

"LG1111" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks for your help. It's been at about 65-68 degrees for about 3 weeks,
and
> this is when the bubbling started again. I'm not sure what it is. Tom's
> suggestion that it might be MLF is possible (I can't disprove it) but with
my
> MLF's, the bubbles seems to creep up the sides of the carboys. These
bubbles
> are just coming up the center of the carboy, like CO2, so I think this is
the
> better possibility. One way or another, I suspect that the only course of
> action at this point is to wait. It's sulfite protected, so no harm can
happen
> (famous last words).

Better keep a vigilant nose on that wine. After fermentation and before
racking is when H2S tends to show up. I'd recommend you stir the lees every
couple of days to prevent that from happening. Once the bubbling is over
you can leave it alone (topped up, of course). If, as I suspect, it is ML
you're seeing the sulfite will slow down its progress some and it could take
awhile to finish.

Tom S

Lee, as much as I respect Tom's opinions, I simply can't believe it is
MLF. It was a frozen must, you kept it appropriately sulfited, and
the temperatures have been low. I think your wine is simply saturated
with CO2. Of course, if you did a paper chromatography two weeks ago
like Tom suggested you'd know. If you didn't have it, you could have
ordered it online and would have had it about a week now....

Still, if it were me, I'd keep the sulfites high and degasse the wine.
It may take several hours, but needs to be done in any case. Once
degassed, I'll bet your symptoms will disappear.

Please keep us informed, as this one is simply one or the other -- not
rocket science at all -- but only you can determine which it is.

Jack Keller, The Winemaking Home Page
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/

I know what you mean. The best wine I've made yet was an accident. I
pitched a kit Shiraz, and then realized we were leaving in 3 days for a week
vacation in Florida. MAJOR brain cramp, and I thought I was going to lose
the batch. But I cranked the AC down to 60 and left the primary. When I
got back, it was ALMOST ready to rack to secondary, and all my friends agree
it was the best tasting wine I've every made.

Usually, I ferment at room temperature, 70 - 75. Cold is better, but my
wife would kill me if I tried to keep the house that cold.



"LG1111" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks for your help. It's been at about 65-68 degrees for about 3 weeks,
and
> this is when the bubbling started again. I'm not sure what it is. Tom's
> suggestion that it might be MLF is possible (I can't disprove it) but with
my
> MLF's, the bubbles seems to creep up the sides of the carboys. These
bubbles
> are just coming up the center of the carboy, like CO2, so I think this is
the
> better possibility. One way or another, I suspect that the only course of
> action at this point is to wait. It's sulfate protected, so no harm can
happen
> (famous last words).
>
> This was the first year that I fermented my whites at 55 degrees. For
those
> who haven't done it, I think (it's hard to compare one year to another),
that
> the wines are MUCH fruitier and deeper in bouquet and flavor. It took
about
> 6-8 weeks for the primary to be done, but I think it's worth it.
>
> Lee