Hello all,

I recently became the lucky recipient of a free 54 litre demijohn,
though empty, I was still pleased.

A look inside dampened my spirits a bit, as there were 3 dead mice in
there along with a bunch of other rubbish. I dumped out as much of the
stuff that would fall out and then I filled it with hot water and gave
it a good swishing around and most of the debris is gone now... there
are still little bits stuff on the side that are proving to rather
annoying to get off... I tried my carboy brush but it's rather
cumbersome since it bends and what not. Any suggetions as to what I
should try chemical wise to get this thing clean?

--
charles

"Once ... in the wilds of Afghanistan, I lost my corkscrew, and we were
forced to live on nothing but food and water for days."
- W.C. Fields

In article >,
Charles H > wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> I recently became the lucky recipient of a free 54 litre demijohn,
> though empty, I was still pleased.
>
> A look inside dampened my spirits a bit, as there were 3 dead mice in
> there along with a bunch of other rubbish. I dumped out as much of the
> stuff that would fall out and then I filled it with hot water and gave
> it a good swishing around and most of the debris is gone now... there
> are still little bits stuff on the side that are proving to rather
> annoying to get off... I tried my carboy brush but it's rather
> cumbersome since it bends and what not. Any suggetions as to what I
> should try chemical wise to get this thing clean?

Add some dirt!!! No, really -- add some course sand to your carboy along
with some hot soapy (and maybe a bit of bleach) water and just shake the
bejeezus out of it. The sand will provide some scouring action to help
loosen up the stuck on bits. The more you can swirl it around, the more
scouring it will get.

--
Greg Cook
http://homepage.mac.com/gregcook/Wine

(remove spamblocker from my email address)

> Charles H > wrote:
> > I recently became the lucky recipient of a free 54 litre demijohn,
> > though empty, I was still pleased.
> >
> > A look inside dampened my spirits a bit, as there were 3 dead mice in
> > there along with a bunch of other rubbish. I dumped out as much of the
> > stuff that would fall out and then I filled it with hot water and gave
> > it a good swishing around and most of the debris is gone now... there
> > are still little bits stuff on the side that are proving to rather
> > annoying to get off... I tried my carboy brush but it's rather
> > cumbersome since it bends and what not. Any suggetions as to what I
> > should try chemical wise to get this thing clean?
>
"Greg Cook" > wrote in message
...
> Add some dirt!!! No, really -- add some course sand to your carboy along
> with some hot soapy (and maybe a bit of bleach) water and just shake the
> bejeezus out of it. The sand will provide some scouring action to help
> loosen up the stuck on bits. The more you can swirl it around, the more
> scouring it will get.
>
I have the same suggestion as Greg, with a slight modification. Fill it with
a soap/bleach/water solution, and let it soak over night (or longer). Empty
it, then add a handful of builder's sand (the sort that you add to cement to
make concrete), add just enough water to swish it around (the less water,
the more abrasive the sand), and swish it around until the deposits are
removed. Takes about 5-minutes for the heaviest deposits I've seen so far.

An even better abrasive is to screen those small rocks that one finds around
ant hills. They work great as scrubbers. I keep a small pot full around all
the time for the very purpose mentioned.

--
Regards,
Rex Franklin
"Negodki" > wrote in message
...
> > Charles H > wrote:
> > > I recently became the lucky recipient of a free 54 litre demijohn,
> > > though empty, I was still pleased.
> > >
> > > A look inside dampened my spirits a bit, as there were 3 dead mice in
> > > there along with a bunch of other rubbish. I dumped out as much of the
> > > stuff that would fall out and then I filled it with hot water and gave
> > > it a good swishing around and most of the debris is gone now... there
> > > are still little bits stuff on the side that are proving to rather
> > > annoying to get off... I tried my carboy brush but it's rather
> > > cumbersome since it bends and what not. Any suggetions as to what I
> > > should try chemical wise to get this thing clean?
> >
> "Greg Cook" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Add some dirt!!! No, really -- add some course sand to your carboy along
> > with some hot soapy (and maybe a bit of bleach) water and just shake the
> > bejeezus out of it. The sand will provide some scouring action to help
> > loosen up the stuck on bits. The more you can swirl it around, the more
> > scouring it will get.
> >
> I have the same suggestion as Greg, with a slight modification. Fill it
with
> a soap/bleach/water solution, and let it soak over night (or longer).
Empty
> it, then add a handful of builder's sand (the sort that you add to cement
to
> make concrete), add just enough water to swish it around (the less water,
> the more abrasive the sand), and swish it around until the deposits are
> removed. Takes about 5-minutes for the heaviest deposits I've seen so far.
>
>

"Rex Franklin" > wrote:

> An even better abrasive is to screen those small rocks that one finds
around
> ant hills. They work great as scrubbers. I keep a small pot full around
all
> the time for the very purpose mentioned.

You don't want something too abrasive, because glass can be scratched, or
its finish "dulled". Not saying the ant-hill rocks will do that, but just
cautioning anyone reading this thread that "more abrasive" is not
necessarily better. That's why I add water to the sand, instead of just
using a sandblaster.

I use an automaticdishwasher detergent with hot tap water for my beer
brewing carboys. About a 1/4 cup for 5-6 gallons. You will see the
crud dissolve before your eyes. Rinse thoroughly with very hot water!
Dennis

Negodki wrote:

>> Charles H > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I recently became the lucky recipient of a free 54 litre demijohn,
>>>though empty, I was still pleased.
>>>
>>>A look inside dampened my spirits a bit, as there were 3 dead mice in
>>>there along with a bunch of other rubbish. I dumped out as much of the
>>>stuff that would fall out and then I filled it with hot water and gave
>>>it a good swishing around and most of the debris is gone now... there
>>>are still little bits stuff on the side that are proving to rather
>>>annoying to get off... I tried my carboy brush but it's rather
>>>cumbersome since it bends and what not. Any suggetions as to what I
>>>should try chemical wise to get this thing clean?
>>>
>>>
>"Greg Cook" > wrote in message
...
>
>
>>Add some dirt!!! No, really -- add some course sand to your carboy along
>>with some hot soapy (and maybe a bit of bleach) water and just shake the
>>bejeezus out of it. The sand will provide some scouring action to help
>>loosen up the stuck on bits. The more you can swirl it around, the more
>>scouring it will get.
>>
>>
>>
>I have the same suggestion as Greg, with a slight modification. Fill it with
>a soap/bleach/water solution, and let it soak over night (or longer). Empty
>it, then add a handful of builder's sand (the sort that you add to cement to
>make concrete), add just enough water to swish it around (the less water,
>the more abrasive the sand), and swish it around until the deposits are
>removed. Takes about 5-minutes for the heaviest deposits I've seen so far.
>
>
>
>

Charles H > wrote in message >...
> Hello all,
>
> I recently became the lucky recipient of a free 54 litre demijohn,
> though empty, I was still pleased.
>
> A look inside dampened my spirits a bit, as there were 3 dead mice in
> there along with a bunch of other rubbish. I dumped out as much of the
> stuff that would fall out and then I filled it with hot water and gave
> it a good swishing around and most of the debris is gone now... there
> are still little bits stuff on the side that are proving to rather
> annoying to get off... I tried my carboy brush but it's rather
> cumbersome since it bends and what not. Any suggetions as to what I
> should try chemical wise to get this thing clean?

Household soda and fairly hot water works a treat on all my dirty
demijohns. Rinse it well afterwards.

Oh! yes by all means use water with the ant hill gravel. I've used this
method to remove stain, mould, etc for several years and have never seen any
sign of abrasion damage.

--
Regards,
Rex Franklin
"Negodki" > wrote in message
...
> "Rex Franklin" > wrote:
>
> > An even better abrasive is to screen those small rocks that one finds
> around
> > ant hills. They work great as scrubbers. I keep a small pot full around
> all
> > the time for the very purpose mentioned.
>
> You don't want something too abrasive, because glass can be scratched, or
> its finish "dulled". Not saying the ant-hill rocks will do that, but just
> cautioning anyone reading this thread that "more abrasive" is not
> necessarily better. That's why I add water to the sand, instead of just
> using a sandblaster.
>
>

"Charles H" > wrote in message
...
> Hello all,
>
> I recently became the lucky recipient of a free 54 litre demijohn,
> though empty, I was still pleased.
>
> A look inside dampened my spirits a bit, as there were 3 dead mice in
> there along with a bunch of other rubbish. I dumped out as much of the
> stuff that would fall out and then I filled it with hot water and gave
> it a good swishing around and most of the debris is gone now... there
> are still little bits stuff on the side that are proving to rather
> annoying to get off... I tried my carboy brush but it's rather
> cumbersome since it bends and what not. Any suggetions as to what I
> should try chemical wise to get this thing clean?

A soaking with a _strong_ bleach solution might do the trick. Before that,
you might try sodium carbonate in hot water to loosen most of the crud, and
then scrubbing with your bottle brush to knock it loose from the walls.

In my chemistry class we used sulfuric/dichromate for tough cleaning
problems, but that's no longer an easy option. :^(

Tom S

I have two of such demijohns...
they're nice, and big, and thankfully, clean!!!
But...
I'm not sure what I"m going to make in them....
I can't imagine yet making that much wine at one time of the same kind,
unless I get tons of grapes, a crusher, etc......to process them all.
And being in Michigan, I don't have access to a lot of grapes except
possibly Concord...
But I got my demijohns really cheap inn Hamilton Ontario...
so for now, I still keep em.

The big challenge: how to rack the wine! have to use a pump, I think!

Rick

"Charles H" > wrote in message
...
> Hello all,
>
> I recently became the lucky recipient of a free 54 litre demijohn,
> though empty, I was still pleased.
>
> A look inside dampened my spirits a bit, as there were 3 dead mice in
> there along with a bunch of other rubbish. I dumped out as much of the
> stuff that would fall out and then I filled it with hot water and gave
> it a good swishing around and most of the debris is gone now... there
> are still little bits stuff on the side that are proving to rather
> annoying to get off... I tried my carboy brush but it's rather
> cumbersome since it bends and what not. Any suggetions as to what I
> should try chemical wise to get this thing clean?
>
> --
> charles
>
> "Once ... in the wilds of Afghanistan, I lost my corkscrew, and we were
> forced to live on nothing but food and water for days."
> - W.C. Fields

"Rick Vanderwal" > wrote:

> I can't imagine yet making that much wine at one time of the same kind,
> unless I get tons of grapes, a crusher, etc......to process them all.

54 litre = 14.27 gallons = about 200 pounds of grapes. You can destem and
crush them manually in a few hours. Or you could purchase already crushed
(and frozen) grapes from a number of sources, such as Peter Brehm Vineyards.

> The big challenge: how to rack the wine! have to use a pump, I think!

A full 54-litre carboy will weigh about 135 pounds (assuming it's made of
glass). Two people should be able to lift that onto a table or workbench for
siphoning. If your are by yourself, you can siphon half the volume from
carboy to carboy with both carboys at the same level.Then you have half the
(liquid) weight to lift, and 70-80 pounds isn't to bad. You could also rig
up a winch, if you have a sturdy overhead rafter from which to suspend it.
A pump would be easier, and a lot faster, though.

"Rick Vanderwal" > wrote in message
...
> I have two of such demijohns...
> they're nice, and big, and thankfully, clean!!!
> But...
> I'm not sure what I"m going to make in them....
> I can't imagine yet making that much wine at one time of the same kind,
> unless I get tons of grapes, a crusher, etc......to process them all.

"Tons of grapes"? They're only 14 gallons apiece. It would take only about
200 pounds of grapes to fill one of those with wine, with enough left over
for topping.

> And being in Michigan, I don't have access to a lot of grapes except
> possibly Concord...

I hear that they grow Chardonnay in Ohio. Also, you can buy frozen must and
juice from California. It _is_ a bit expen$ive though.

> The big challenge: how to rack the wine! have to use a pump, I think!

You could rack those by siphon. You might need some help to set them on a
high bench a few months beforehand though. They probably weigh ~150 pounds
when full.

Tom S

On 10/21/03 9:07 PM, in article ,
"Rick Vanderwal" > wrote:

> And being in Michigan, I don't have access to a lot of grapes except
> possibly Concord...

>
> Rick

Rick, I don't know where you are in Michigan, but I do know there are
wonderful wine grapes being grown there. I think dozen or more wineries in
Lelenau peninsula produce some really terrific white wines. Also, southwest
michigan has many vineyards growing good grapes. I'll bet you can find some
source of grapes in MI better than concord for winemaking. Actually, as a
native Michigander, I envy you being so close to wonderful fruit. It's more
of a challenge here in North Dakota!! I do wish I was back home.


--
Greg Cook
http://homepage.mac.com/gregcook/Wine

(remove spamblocker from my email)

I know I'm 2 hours from Traverse City,
and about 2 hours from Fennville, and the grape growing region down south.
I once asked if they had spare grapes (2 years ago?) and they said: NONE!
But I haven't checked since.

hey, if you ever come and visit "back home" come look me up!
Fremont, MI

Rick Vanderwal

"Greg Cook" > wrote in message
...
> On 10/21/03 9:07 PM, in article
,
> "Rick Vanderwal" > wrote:
>
> > And being in Michigan, I don't have access to a lot of grapes except
> > possibly Concord...
>
> >
> > Rick
>
> Rick, I don't know where you are in Michigan, but I do know there are
> wonderful wine grapes being grown there. I think dozen or more wineries in
> Lelenau peninsula produce some really terrific white wines. Also,
southwest
> michigan has many vineyards growing good grapes. I'll bet you can find
some
> source of grapes in MI better than concord for winemaking. Actually, as a
> native Michigander, I envy you being so close to wonderful fruit. It's
more
> of a challenge here in North Dakota!! I do wish I was back home.
>
>
> --
> Greg Cook
> http://homepage.mac.com/gregcook/Wine
>
> (remove spamblocker from my email)
>

yeah, I guess I meant: "TONS" of grapes as a metaphor....
I just went through a manual destemming and processing of 5-6 gallons of
juice from concord grapes - took all day! But I don't have other equipment
except the hands God gave me, and a victorio strainer I'm borrowing from a
friend at church.

Someday.
Rick

"Tom S" > wrote in message
m...
>
> "Rick Vanderwal" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I have two of such demijohns...
> > they're nice, and big, and thankfully, clean!!!
> > But...
> > I'm not sure what I"m going to make in them....
> > I can't imagine yet making that much wine at one time of the same kind,
> > unless I get tons of grapes, a crusher, etc......to process them all.
>
> "Tons of grapes"? They're only 14 gallons apiece. It would take only
about
> 200 pounds of grapes to fill one of those with wine, with enough left over
> for topping.
>
> > And being in Michigan, I don't have access to a lot of grapes except
> > possibly Concord...
>
> I hear that they grow Chardonnay in Ohio. Also, you can buy frozen must
and
> juice from California. It _is_ a bit expen$ive though.
>
> > The big challenge: how to rack the wine! have to use a pump, I think!
>
> You could rack those by siphon. You might need some help to set them on a
> high bench a few months beforehand though. They probably weigh ~150
pounds
> when full.
>
> Tom S
>
>

Rick Vanderwal wrote:

> I'm not sure what I"m going to make in them....
> I can't imagine yet making that much wine at one time of the same kind

I've got a batch of cider in one of my demijohns... freshly pressed for
C$0.55/litre, one can't go wrong. The other one will probably remain
empty until it's time to rack the cider.

It's because of these new acquisions that I've started to look into
pumps and such.
--
charles

"Once ... in the wilds of Afghanistan, I lost my corkscrew, and we were
forced to live on nothing but food and water for days."
- W.C. Fields

On 10/22/03 8:24 AM, in article ,
"Rick Vanderwal" > wrote:

> I know I'm 2 hours from Traverse City,
> and about 2 hours from Fennville, and the grape growing region down south.
> I once asked if they had spare grapes (2 years ago?) and they said: NONE!
> But I haven't checked since.
>
> hey, if you ever come and visit "back home" come look me up!
> Fremont, MI
>
> Rick Vanderwal
>

I would look for grape growers that are not wineries, but who sells grapes
to the wineries and see if you could source a bit of fruit from them.
Wineries are generally reluctant to sell their grapes, but the other farmers
may.

Bummer, I was in your area in June. Took a 2 week trip from the tip of the
Keewenau all the way down to Warren Dunes. I spent a couple of days
winetasting in Lelenau and was very impressed. Don't know when I'll get
back, but next time I'll look you up.
--
Greg Cook
http://homepage.mac.com/gregcook/Wine

(remove spamblocker from my email)

Rick Vanderwal "yeah, I guess I meant: "TONS" of grapes as a metaphor....
> I just went through a manual destemming and processing of 5-6 gallons of
> juice from concord grapes - took all day! But I don't have other
equipment
> except the hands God gave me, and a victorio strainer I'm borrowing from a
> friend at church."

Rick - I work with smaller quantities of grapes (50 to 400 pounds) from my
vineyard. Next time try crushing your grapes by foot while still on the
stems, or better yet have your wife or girl friend do it. Then destem by
rubbing the crushed grapes and stems over a 2-mesh stainless steel screen (2
holes per inch) positioned above your fermenter. This dislodges the crushed
grapes and keeps the stems out of the must. It only takes a couple of hours
to process 400 pounds of grapes and it's lots of fun.

Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas

"Rick Vanderwal" > wrote:
> yeah, I guess I meant: "TONS" of grapes as a metaphor....
> I just went through a manual destemming and processing of 5-6 gallons of
> juice from concord grapes - took all day! But I don't have other
equipment
> except the hands God gave me, and a victorio strainer I'm borrowing from a
> friend at church.

You can speed up the destemming process with a milk crate or frame with 1"
mesh chicken wire (preferably stainless steel) or a piece of 10-12" pvc pipe
with a bunch of 1" holes drilled in it. Just place the frame over a bucket,
and scrub the grape clusters across the holes. Takes about three hours to do
what takes 9 hours by hand.

You can speed up the crushing process by taking a 4"x4" post (or 12" piece
of 4x4 mounted on some sort of handle), and pounding the grapes butter-churn
style in a bucket. Takes about 1/2 hour to do a 20-gallon primary full of
grapes. The grapes try to float which makes it tricky, so you need to
periodically pour or siphon off the juice into a second bucket.