I have just bought some French oak chips medium toast and medium size
I would like to add them to my primary fermentor to give my white wine
a bit of complexity. I will be using Chardonnay juice from California
and 1118 yeast, the fermentation will not take very long considering I
will also be using Fermaid K and GoFerm as nutrients for the yeast.
Can anyone tell me how much oak to use for 138 liters?
Thank you in advance.

On Sep 15, 11:35*pm, Jim > wrote:
> I have just bought some French oak chips medium toast and medium size
> I would like to add them to my primary fermentor to give my white wine
> a bit of complexity. I will be using Chardonnay juice from California
> and 1118 yeast, the fermentation will not take very long considering I
> will also be using Fermaid K and GoFerm as nutrients for the yeast.
> Can anyone tell me how much oak to use for 138 liters?
> Thank you in advance. * * *

Between 1/2 pound and a pound preferment. I usually use around 1
ounce per 5 gallons on a white which some consider excessive, I
don't. Chardonnay takes oak well but like anything can be
overpowered so consider starting light and adding more later if
necessary. It does tone down with time and preferment additions are
kind of hard to screw up; you would really have to overdo it to add
too much preferment. I use EC1118 and FermaidK too. (This year I ran
out so am using SuperFerment, I like that too.)

Joe

If I was going to make an oaked chardonnay that needs to go through
MLF I wouldn't use EC1118. I'd use a non Bayanus strain like D-80.
JMO.

Bob


..On Sep 16, 6:57*am, Joe Sallustio > wrote:
> On Sep 15, 11:35*pm, Jim > wrote:
>
> > I have just bought some French oak chips medium toast and medium size
> > I would like to add them to my primary fermentor to give my white wine
> > a bit of complexity. I will be using Chardonnay juice from California
> > and 1118 yeast, the fermentation will not take very long considering I
> > will also be using Fermaid K and GoFerm as nutrients for the yeast.
> > Can anyone tell me how much oak to use for 138 liters?
> > Thank you in advance. * * *
>
> Between 1/2 pound and a pound preferment. *I usually use around 1
> ounce per 5 gallons on a white which some consider excessive, I
> don't. * Chardonnay takes oak well but like anything can be
> overpowered so consider starting light and adding more later if
> necessary. *It does tone down with time and preferment additions are
> kind of hard to screw up; you would really have to overdo it to add
> too much preferment. *I use EC1118 and FermaidK too. *(This year I ran
> out so am using SuperFerment, I like that too.)
>
> Joe

> wrote in message
...
If I was going to make an oaked chardonnay that needs to go through
MLF I wouldn't use EC1118. I'd use a non Bayanus strain like D-80.
JMO.

Bob


..On Sep 16, 6:57 am, Joe Sallustio > wrote:
> On Sep 15, 11:35 pm, Jim > wrote:
>
> > I have just bought some French oak chips medium toast and medium size
> > I would like to add them to my primary fermentor to give my white wine
> > a bit of complexity. I will be using Chardonnay juice from California
> > and 1118 yeast, the fermentation will not take very long considering I
> > will also be using Fermaid K and GoFerm as nutrients for the yeast.
> > Can anyone tell me how much oak to use for 138 liters?
> > Thank you in advance.
>
> Between 1/2 pound and a pound preferment. I usually use around 1
> ounce per 5 gallons on a white which some consider excessive, I
> don't. Chardonnay takes oak well but like anything can be
> overpowered so consider starting light and adding more later if
> necessary. It does tone down with time and preferment additions are
> kind of hard to screw up; you would really have to overdo it to add
> too much preferment. I use EC1118 and FermaidK too. (This year I ran
> out so am using SuperFerment, I like that too.)
>
> Joe
>
Bob,
I often make big Chardonnays at the winery using EC1118.
The major problem is that bayanus yeast strains like to gobble up all of the
nutrients and after fermentation, there isn't any nutrients left for the
lactic bacteria.
But, there is a simple solution. Just leave the new wine on the yeast lees
for a few weeks and the yeast cells will disintegrate. Then the nutrients
will leak Back into the wine and the lactic bacteria can go to work.
Lum

Lum,
How long does that usually take?? Do you use natural MLF bacteria or
do you add the bacteria and the MLF nutrients?? It sounds like you let
the natural stuff do it's job which is what I do. Do you also lower
the PH to make sure only the good natural MLF bacteria are able to do
their job? One of the reasons I suggested non-bayanus is because some
people will sulfite too early after fermentation and then wonder why
the wine didn't complete MLF. I sense that beginner wine makers have
the fear that if they don't sulfite soon enough the wine will spoil. I
say this from experience I learned the good (hard) way. I've found the
MLF goes alot easier and sooner with yeasts like d-80 or 71B. You have
much more experience then me so what I really want to know is how long
have you noticed until the yeast breaks down enough to promote MLF? Do
you notice more diacytl formation due to the lag time of the MLF ?
Good to see you're still reading the board.

Bob

On Sep 18, 10:28*am, "Lum Eisenman" > wrote:
> > wrote in message
>
> ...
> If *I was going to make an oaked chardonnay that needs to go through
> MLF I wouldn't use EC1118. I'd use a non Bayanus strain like D-80.
> JMO.
>
> Bob
>
> .On Sep 16, 6:57 am, Joe Sallustio > wrote:
>
> > On Sep 15, 11:35 pm, Jim > wrote:
>
> > > I have just bought some French oak chips medium toast and medium size
> > > I would like to add them to my primary fermentor to give my white wine
> > > a bit of complexity. I will be using Chardonnay juice from California
> > > and 1118 yeast, the fermentation will not take very long considering I
> > > will also be using Fermaid K and GoFerm as nutrients for the yeast.
> > > Can anyone tell me how much oak to use for 138 liters?
> > > Thank you in advance.
>
> > Between 1/2 pound and a pound preferment. I usually use around 1
> > ounce per 5 gallons on a white which some consider excessive, I
> > don't. Chardonnay takes oak well but like anything can be
> > overpowered so consider starting light and adding more later if
> > necessary. It does tone down with time and preferment additions are
> > kind of hard to screw up; you would really have to overdo it to add
> > too much preferment. I use EC1118 and FermaidK too. (This year I ran
> > out so am using SuperFerment, I like that too.)
>
> > Joe
>
> Bob,
> I often make big Chardonnays at the winery using EC1118.
> The major problem is that bayanus yeast strains like to gobble up all of the
> nutrients and after fermentation, there isn't any nutrients left for the
> lactic bacteria.
> But, there is a simple solution. *Just leave the new wine on the yeast lees
> for a few weeks and the yeast cells will disintegrate. *Then the nutrients
> will leak Back into the wine and the lactic bacteria can go to work.
> Lum

Bob,
I am not sure how long it takes for the yeast cells to break down, but MLF
seems to become active in five or six weeks.
I keep "white" barrels from year to year. Once a barrel has gone through
MLF, it will contain lactic bacteria and the bacteria will carry over to the
next year. I seldom (~1 in 10 times) add commercial bacteria or MLF
nutrients.
I like "big fruit bombs," so I like very ripe grapes. Most of my wines have
pH values of 3.5 to 4.1. I watch TA very carefully, but I seldom attempt to
adjust pH. (I am 79 years old so I am not interested in long lived wines.)
I never add SO2 until MLF is finished.
Bayanus yeast strains certainly do delay MLF, but they have several other
desirable characteristics.
I think the amount of diacetyl depends more on how long the wine remains in
contact with the microbes after MLF is finished. If you want less diacetyl,
do nothing for a few weeks after MLF finishes. If you want more diacetyl,
add SO2 as soon as MLF finishes to kill the ML bacteria before they can
breakdown the diacetyl.
Lum

> wrote in message
...
Lum,
How long does that usually take?? Do you use natural MLF bacteria or
do you add the bacteria and the MLF nutrients?? It sounds like you let
the natural stuff do it's job which is what I do. Do you also lower
the PH to make sure only the good natural MLF bacteria are able to do
their job? One of the reasons I suggested non-bayanus is because some
people will sulfite too early after fermentation and then wonder why
the wine didn't complete MLF. I sense that beginner wine makers have
the fear that if they don't sulfite soon enough the wine will spoil. I
say this from experience I learned the good (hard) way. I've found the
MLF goes alot easier and sooner with yeasts like d-80 or 71B. You have
much more experience then me so what I really want to know is how long
have you noticed until the yeast breaks down enough to promote MLF? Do
you notice more diacytl formation due to the lag time of the MLF ?
Good to see you're still reading the board.

Bob

On Sep 18, 10:28 am, "Lum Eisenman" > wrote:
> > wrote in message
>
> ...
> If I was going to make an oaked chardonnay that needs to go through
> MLF I wouldn't use EC1118. I'd use a non Bayanus strain like D-80.
> JMO.
>
> Bob
>
> .On Sep 16, 6:57 am, Joe Sallustio > wrote:
>
> > On Sep 15, 11:35 pm, Jim > wrote:
>
> > > I have just bought some French oak chips medium toast and medium size
> > > I would like to add them to my primary fermentor to give my white wine
> > > a bit of complexity. I will be using Chardonnay juice from California
> > > and 1118 yeast, the fermentation will not take very long considering I
> > > will also be using Fermaid K and GoFerm as nutrients for the yeast.
> > > Can anyone tell me how much oak to use for 138 liters?
> > > Thank you in advance.
>
> > Between 1/2 pound and a pound preferment. I usually use around 1
> > ounce per 5 gallons on a white which some consider excessive, I
> > don't. Chardonnay takes oak well but like anything can be
> > overpowered so consider starting light and adding more later if
> > necessary. It does tone down with time and preferment additions are
> > kind of hard to screw up; you would really have to overdo it to add
> > too much preferment. I use EC1118 and FermaidK too. (This year I ran
> > out so am using SuperFerment, I like that too.)
>
> > Joe
>
> Bob,
> I often make big Chardonnays at the winery using EC1118.
> The major problem is that bayanus yeast strains like to gobble up all of
> the
> nutrients and after fermentation, there isn't any nutrients left for the
> lactic bacteria.
> But, there is a simple solution. Just leave the new wine on the yeast lees
> for a few weeks and the yeast cells will disintegrate. Then the nutrients
> will leak Back into the wine and the lactic bacteria can go to work.
> Lum