michael wrote:

> On 26 Jun, 17:16, "Paul E. Lehmann"
> > wrote:
>> michael wrote:
>> > On 26 Jun, 13:21, "Paul E. Lehmann"
>> > > wrote:
>> >> michael wrote:
>> >> > Thanks again for all of the advice on my
>> >> > previous post,which will take some
>> >> > digesting,but very informative.My
>> >> > technique so far has been as follows.
>> >> > 1.Early in the summer I start taking out
>> >> > lateral side shoots so that I do not get
>> >> > too much of a thick unmanageable hedge
>> >> > later on.I do not take them all out as I
>> >> > wonder whether they will help the grapes
>> >> > grow and mature later.
>>
>> >> Here is something to consider. *At the field
>> >> day summer education meeting a few weeks
>> >> ago, it was brought up that in some cases it
>> >> might make sense to leave the lateral and
>> >> cut out the main shoot.
>>
>> >> > I am
>> >> > still unclear as to whether this is
>> >> > correct and whether I am inhibiting bud
>> >> > formation on those canes I leave for next
>> >> > year.(I use Double Guyot cane pruning and
>> >> > leave a couple of canes growing from near
>> >> > the old base for next years canes.)
>>
>> >> This is the same system I am using. *On some
>> >> of my older widely spaced vines I am
>> >> retaining cordon spur. *I may consider
>> >> infill planting later but planting between
>> >> older established vines may not be the best
>> >> thing to do.
>>
>> >> > 2.I tie in the main shoots vertically
>> >> > early on to prevent them getting
>> >> > tangled.Sometimes with the occasional
>> >> > strong winds,these blow sideways,and I
>> >> > really need a better technique for tying
>> >> > in the shoots.
>>
>> >> How do you have your wires? *It is difficult
>> >> to see or explain without pictures.
>>
>> >> I have three sets of parallel wires on both
>> >> sides of the post about 6 to 9 inches apart
>> >> horizontally and spaced about a foot apart
>> >> vertically.
>>
>> >> You can get plastic "C" clips, which are
>> >> often used for attaching bird netting, and
>> >> after the shoots are long enough to go
>> >> between the wires merely "C" clip the two
>> >> wires together. *This will hold the shoots
>> >> in place without tying. *I learned this
>> >> trick several weeks ago at the summer
>> >> educational meeting I mentioned.
>>
>> >> > I use 2-ply string tied
>> >> > tightly round the horizontal wire,and
>> >> > loosely round the vertical cane-however
>> >> > tight I tie onto the wire it tends to
>> >> > move,and I think I need a better
>> >> > technique.One book I use suggests twist
>> >> > ties(plastic coated wire),but surely they
>> >> > are difficult to remove during pruning?
>>
>> >> > 3.About the end of June(i.e.now) I start
>> >> > hedging by top cutting the longest
>> >> > canes,and continue to take out some of the
>> >> > long side shoots(is this correct?)-perhaps
>> >> > I should just hedge the vines top and
>> >> > sides?
>>
>> >> Sounds good to me.
>>
>> >> > 4.During July and August I start leaf
>> >> > removal (not all ) around the grape
>> >> > clusters to let the light and sulphur
>> >> > spray particularly into the grape region.
>>
>> >> This depends on your growing season. *I
>> >> start doing some very light initial leaf
>> >> pulling on the East side after fruit set or
>> >> slightly before. *I make a couple passes
>> >> during the season because as the clusters
>> >> mature they will hang instead of being
>> >> upright and different leaves will be in the
>> >> way of sunlight.
>>
>> >> > At the end of August I stop pruning
>> >> > and net against bird attack(we have
>> >> > woodland all around and this is
>> >> > particularly necessary quite early).
>>
>> >> In my area I have to net around the first
>> >> week in August. *That is when verasion
>> >> begins here and that is when the birds get
>> >> interested.
>>
>> >> > Thanks again,Michael.Any further advice
>> >> > very welcome.
>>
>> >> Sounds like you are on the right track.
>>
>> > Thanks for that.I have tried the plastic
>> > C-clips to tie my double wires together.I
>> > find that this makes it more difficult to
>> > sort out the crossing shoots and also makes
>> > it more difficult to spray so effectively-but
>> > I do use them sometimes.However I mainly fall
>> > back on tying with string.
>>
>> I bought some plastic coated ties. *They can be
>> undone and used year after year.
>>
>> > It seems that I use the same system
>> > as you-three single wires 9" apart with the
>> > lowest about 18" from the ground,then two
>> > sets of double wires about 6-9" apart-mine
>> > are rarely tight!,then two more single wires
>> > with the top wire at about 5'6".
>> > I am interested in your
>> > comment that you learned that it was better
>> > to prune the leaders than take the side
>> > shoots out.
>>
>> Sorry to mislead you. *I did not mean in any
>> way to do this for all laterals. *Sometimes
>> though, you may have a "bull cane" where this
>> makes sense. *Bull canes have long internode
>> spacing the laterals have shorter ones with
>> more leaves. So far, I have not done this -
>> because I have not so far this year had a
>> situation that waranted it.
>>
>> > What was the reason given for this?Is it to
>> > do with the most efficient way to provide
>> > energy to the growing clusters through these
>> > leaves.I can see why the leaves on extension
>> > shoots 10'-20' away may have little effect.
>> > Cheers,Michael
>>
>> You are in England, right?
>> What varieties are you growing?- Hide quoted
>> text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Hi Paul,
> I grow five varieties of grapes in
> Herefordshire,England,which is becoming a good
> climate for vines-we have about 28" of rainfall
> annually and typically bright autumns.They a
>
> Bacchus-a white grape.Ripens early October
>
> Schonburger-a white grape.Ripens mid october
>
> Rondo-a red grape .Ripens late September.
>
> Regent -a red grape .Ripens mid October.
>
> Johanniter-a new white hybrid.
>
> I have chosen the above varieties as they have
> all been developed in Germany for early
> ripening.Rondo,Regent and Johanniter are 'new'
> disease resistant varieties and do not suffer
> much from powdery mildew.Bacchus and Schonburger
> are older hybrids which (when grown in
> England)have won top prizes in European blind
> tastings.
>
> I also know of some English vineyards who are
> beginning to plant Cabernet sauvingnon,so our
> climate must be getting better.Typically our
> rainfull is not that high,and we often have long
> dry spells-we are on a s-facing limestone soil
> so our drainage is excellent also.
> Cheers,Michael
>
> Bacchus-a white variety that is popular in
> Germany

That sounds interesting. Cabernet Sauvignon seems
to require a long hang time and around here
generally is not ready for harvest until mid to
late October - providing the killing frosts holds
off that long.

Cabernet Franc seems to be a good variety for
cooler climates. I tasted some excellent locally
grown Cabernet Franc when I visited Nova Scotia.
I was surprised to see vineyards there. I guess
the Gulf Stream really helps moderate the
climate.