Thanks again for all of the advice on my previous post,which will take
some digesting,but very informative.My technique so far has been as
follows.
1.Early in the summer I start taking out lateral side shoots so that I
do not get too much of a thick unmanageable hedge later on.I do not
take them all out as I wonder whether they will help the grapes grow
and mature later.I am still unclear as to whether this is correct and
whether I am inhibiting bud formation on those canes I leave for next
year.(I use Double Guyot cane pruning and leave a couple of canes
growing from near the old base for next years canes.)

2.I tie in the main shoots vertically early on to prevent them getting
tangled.Sometimes with the occasional strong winds,these blow
sideways,and I really need a better technique for tying in the
shoots.I use 2-ply string tied tightly round the horizontal wire,and
loosely round the vertical cane-however tight I tie onto the wire it
tends to move,and I think I need a better technique.One book I use
suggests twist ties(plastic coated wire),but surely they are difficult
to remove during pruning?

3.About the end of June(i.e.now) I start hedging by top cutting the
longest canes,and continue to take out some of the long side shoots(is
this correct?)-perhaps I should just hedge the vines top and sides?

4.During July and August I start leaf removal (not all ) around the
grape clusters to let the light and sulphur spray particularly into
the grape region.At the end of August I stop pruning and net against
bird attack(we have woodland all around and this is particularly
necessary quite early).

Thanks again,Michael.Any further advice very welcome.

michael wrote:

> Thanks again for all of the advice on my
> previous post,which will take some digesting,but
> very informative.My technique so far has been as
> follows. 1.Early in the summer I start taking
> out lateral side shoots so that I do not get too
> much of a thick unmanageable hedge later on.I do
> not take them all out as I wonder whether they
> will help the grapes grow and mature later.

Here is something to consider. At the field day
summer education meeting a few weeks ago, it was
brought up that in some cases it might make sense
to leave the lateral and cut out the main shoot.

> I am
> still unclear as to whether this is correct and
> whether I am inhibiting bud formation on those
> canes I leave for next year.(I use Double Guyot
> cane pruning and leave a couple of canes growing
> from near the old base for next years canes.)

This is the same system I am using. On some of my
older widely spaced vines I am retaining cordon
spur. I may consider infill planting later but
planting between older established vines may not
be the best thing to do.

>
> 2.I tie in the main shoots vertically early on
> to prevent them getting tangled.Sometimes with
> the occasional strong winds,these blow
> sideways,and I really need a better technique
> for tying in the shoots.

How do you have your wires? It is difficult to
see or explain without pictures.

I have three sets of parallel wires on both sides
of the post about 6 to 9 inches apart
horizontally and spaced about a foot apart
vertically.

You can get plastic "C" clips, which are often
used for attaching bird netting, and after the
shoots are long enough to go between the wires
merely "C" clip the two wires together. This
will hold the shoots in place without tying. I
learned this trick several weeks ago at the
summer educational meeting I mentioned.


> I use 2-ply string tied
> tightly round the horizontal wire,and loosely
> round the vertical cane-however tight I tie onto
> the wire it tends to move,and I think I need a
> better technique.One book I use suggests twist
> ties(plastic coated wire),but surely they are
> difficult to remove during pruning?
>
> 3.About the end of June(i.e.now) I start hedging
> by top cutting the longest canes,and continue to
> take out some of the long side shoots(is this
> correct?)-perhaps I should just hedge the vines
> top and sides?

Sounds good to me.
>
> 4.During July and August I start leaf removal
> (not all ) around the grape clusters to let the
> light and sulphur spray particularly into the
> grape region.

This depends on your growing season. I start
doing some very light initial leaf pulling on the
East side after fruit set or slightly before. I
make a couple passes during the season because as
the clusters mature they will hang instead of
being upright and different leaves will be in the
way of sunlight.

> At the end of August I stop pruning
> and net against bird attack(we have woodland all
> around and this is particularly necessary quite
> early).

In my area I have to net around the first week in
August. That is when verasion begins here and
that is when the birds get interested.

>
> Thanks again,Michael.Any further advice very
> welcome.

Sounds like you are on the right track.

On 26 Jun, 13:21, "Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote:
> michael wrote:
> > Thanks again for all of the advice on my
> > previous post,which will take some digesting,but
> > very informative.My technique so far has been as
> > follows. 1.Early in the summer I start taking
> > out lateral side shoots so that I do not get too
> > much of a thick unmanageable hedge later on.I do
> > not take them all out as I wonder whether they
> > will help the grapes grow and mature later.
>
> Here is something to consider. *At the field day
> summer education meeting a few weeks ago, it was
> brought up that in some cases it might make sense
> to leave the lateral and cut out the main shoot.
>
> > I am
> > still unclear as to whether this is correct and
> > whether I am inhibiting bud formation on those
> > canes I leave for next year.(I use Double Guyot
> > cane pruning and leave a couple of canes growing
> > from near the old base for next years canes.)
>
> This is the same system I am using. *On some of my
> older widely spaced vines I am retaining cordon
> spur. *I may consider infill planting later but
> planting between older established vines may not
> be the best thing to do.
>
>
>
> > 2.I tie in the main shoots vertically early on
> > to prevent them getting tangled.Sometimes with
> > the occasional strong winds,these blow
> > sideways,and I really need a better technique
> > for tying in the shoots.
>
> How do you have your wires? *It is difficult to
> see or explain without pictures. *
>
> I have three sets of parallel wires on both sides
> of the post about 6 to 9 inches apart
> horizontally and spaced about a foot apart
> vertically.
>
> You can get plastic "C" clips, which are often
> used for attaching bird netting, and after the
> shoots are long enough to go between the wires
> merely "C" clip the two wires together. *This
> will hold the shoots in place without tying. *I
> learned this trick several weeks ago at the
> summer educational meeting I mentioned.
>
> > I use 2-ply string tied
> > tightly round the horizontal wire,and loosely
> > round the vertical cane-however tight I tie onto
> > the wire it tends to move,and I think I need a
> > better technique.One book I use suggests twist
> > ties(plastic coated wire),but surely they are
> > difficult to remove during pruning?
>
> > 3.About the end of June(i.e.now) I start hedging
> > by top cutting the longest canes,and continue to
> > take out some of the long side shoots(is this
> > correct?)-perhaps I should just hedge the vines
> > top and sides?
>
> Sounds good to me.
>
>
>
> > 4.During July and August I start leaf removal
> > (not all ) around the grape clusters to let the
> > light and sulphur spray particularly into the
> > grape region.
>
> This depends on your growing season. *I start
> doing some very light initial leaf pulling on the
> East side after fruit set or slightly before. *I
> make a couple passes during the season because as
> the clusters mature they will hang instead of
> being upright and different leaves will be in the
> way of sunlight.
>
> > At the end of August I stop pruning
> > and net against bird attack(we have woodland all
> > around and this is particularly necessary quite
> > early).
>
> In my area I have to net around the first week in
> August. *That is when verasion begins here and
> that is when the birds get interested.
>
>
>
> > Thanks again,Michael.Any further advice very
> > welcome.
>
> Sounds like you are on the right track.

Thanks for that.I have tried the plastic C-clips to tie my double
wires together.I find that this makes it more difficult to sort out
the crossing shoots and also makes it more difficult to spray so
effectively-but I do use them sometimes.However I mainly fall back on
tying with string.It seems that I use the same system as you-three
single wires 9" apart with the lowest about 18" from the ground,then
two sets of double wires about 6-9" apart-mine are rarely tight!,then
two more single wires with the top wire at about 5'6".
I am interested in your comment that you learned that it was better to
prune the leaders than take the side shoots out.What was the reason
given for this?Is it to do with the most efficient way to provide
energy to the growing clusters through these leaves.I can see why the
leaves on extension shoots 10'-20' away may have little effect.
Cheers,Michael

On Jun 26, 5:48*am, michael > wrote:
> Thanks again for all of the advice on my previous post,which will take
> some digesting,but very informative.My technique so far has been as
> follows.
> 1.Early in the summer I start taking out lateral side shoots so that I
> do not get too much of a thick unmanageable hedge later on.I do not
> take them all out as I wonder whether they will help the grapes grow
> and mature later.I am still unclear as to whether this is correct and
> whether I am inhibiting bud formation on those canes I leave for next
> year.(I use Double Guyot cane pruning and leave a couple of canes
> growing from near the old base for next years canes.)
>
> 2.I tie in the main shoots vertically early on to prevent them getting
> tangled.Sometimes with the occasional strong winds,these blow
> sideways,and I really need a better technique for tying in the
> shoots.I use 2-ply string tied tightly round the horizontal wire,and
> loosely round the vertical cane-however tight I tie onto the wire it
> tends to move,and I think I need a better technique.One book I use
> suggests twist ties(plastic coated wire),but surely they are difficult
> to remove during pruning?
>
> 3.About the end of June(i.e.now) I start hedging by top cutting the
> longest canes,and continue to take out some of the long side shoots(is
> this correct?)-perhaps I should just hedge the vines top and sides?
>
> 4.During July and August I start leaf removal (not all ) around the
> grape clusters to let the light and sulphur spray particularly into
> the grape region.At the end of August I stop pruning and net against
> bird attack(we have woodland all around and this is particularly
> necessary quite early).
>
> Thanks again,Michael.Any further advice very welcome.

You might want to try using one of those fake owl that the head move
around. It might help with the birds it doesn't stop them all but
helps cut back on the attack. You want to move it around very couples
weeks makes it seem real.

Mac

michael wrote:

> On 26 Jun, 13:21, "Paul E. Lehmann"
> > wrote:
>> michael wrote:
>> > Thanks again for all of the advice on my
>> > previous post,which will take some
>> > digesting,but very informative.My technique
>> > so far has been as follows. 1.Early in the
>> > summer I start taking out lateral side shoots
>> > so that I do not get too much of a thick
>> > unmanageable hedge later on.I do not take
>> > them all out as I wonder whether they will
>> > help the grapes grow and mature later.
>>
>> Here is something to consider. *At the field
>> day summer education meeting a few weeks ago,
>> it was brought up that in some cases it might
>> make sense to leave the lateral and cut out the
>> main shoot.
>>
>> > I am
>> > still unclear as to whether this is correct
>> > and whether I am inhibiting bud formation on
>> > those canes I leave for next year.(I use
>> > Double Guyot cane pruning and leave a couple
>> > of canes growing from near the old base for
>> > next years canes.)
>>
>> This is the same system I am using. *On some of
>> my older widely spaced vines I am retaining
>> cordon spur. *I may consider infill planting
>> later but planting between older established
>> vines may not be the best thing to do.
>>
>>
>>
>> > 2.I tie in the main shoots vertically early
>> > on to prevent them getting tangled.Sometimes
>> > with the occasional strong winds,these blow
>> > sideways,and I really need a better technique
>> > for tying in the shoots.
>>
>> How do you have your wires? *It is difficult to
>> see or explain without pictures.
>>
>> I have three sets of parallel wires on both
>> sides of the post about 6 to 9 inches apart
>> horizontally and spaced about a foot apart
>> vertically.
>>
>> You can get plastic "C" clips, which are often
>> used for attaching bird netting, and after the
>> shoots are long enough to go between the wires
>> merely "C" clip the two wires together. *This
>> will hold the shoots in place without tying. *I
>> learned this trick several weeks ago at the
>> summer educational meeting I mentioned.
>>
>> > I use 2-ply string tied
>> > tightly round the horizontal wire,and loosely
>> > round the vertical cane-however tight I tie
>> > onto the wire it tends to move,and I think I
>> > need a better technique.One book I use
>> > suggests twist ties(plastic coated wire),but
>> > surely they are difficult to remove during
>> > pruning?
>>
>> > 3.About the end of June(i.e.now) I start
>> > hedging by top cutting the longest canes,and
>> > continue to take out some of the long side
>> > shoots(is this correct?)-perhaps I should
>> > just hedge the vines top and sides?
>>
>> Sounds good to me.
>>
>>
>>
>> > 4.During July and August I start leaf removal
>> > (not all ) around the grape clusters to let
>> > the light and sulphur spray particularly into
>> > the grape region.
>>
>> This depends on your growing season. *I start
>> doing some very light initial leaf pulling on
>> the East side after fruit set or slightly
>> before. *I make a couple passes during the
>> season because as the clusters mature they will
>> hang instead of being upright and different
>> leaves will be in the way of sunlight.
>>
>> > At the end of August I stop pruning
>> > and net against bird attack(we have woodland
>> > all around and this is particularly necessary
>> > quite early).
>>
>> In my area I have to net around the first week
>> in August. *That is when verasion begins here
>> and that is when the birds get interested.
>>
>>
>>
>> > Thanks again,Michael.Any further advice very
>> > welcome.
>>
>> Sounds like you are on the right track.
>
> Thanks for that.I have tried the plastic C-clips
> to tie my double wires together.I find that this
> makes it more difficult to sort out the crossing
> shoots and also makes it more difficult to spray
> so effectively-but I do use them
> sometimes.However I mainly fall back on tying
> with string.

I bought some plastic coated ties. They can be
undone and used year after year.


> It seems that I use the same system
> as you-three single wires 9" apart with the
> lowest about 18" from the ground,then two sets
> of double wires about 6-9" apart-mine are rarely
> tight!,then two more single wires with the top
> wire at about 5'6".

> I am interested in your
> comment that you learned that it was better to
> prune the leaders than take the side shoots
> out.

Sorry to mislead you. I did not mean in any way
to do this for all laterals. Sometimes though,
you may have a "bull cane" where this makes
sense. Bull canes have long internode spacing
the laterals have shorter ones with more leaves.
So far, I have not done this - because I have not
so far this year had a situation that waranted
it.

> What was the reason given for this?Is it to
> do with the most efficient way to provide energy
> to the growing clusters through these leaves.I
> can see why the leaves on extension shoots
> 10'-20' away may have little effect.
> Cheers,Michael

You are in England, right?
What varieties are you growing?

"You are in England, right?"

That's another thing to consider. By the end of the year as the grapes
are ripening the sun is lower in the sky up there in England. You may
need all the leaves you can get. BTW, are you growing white wine?
White wine is more forgiving if your grapes don't ripen fully.

Bob

Jun 26, 11:16 am, "Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote:
> michael wrote:
> > On 26 Jun, 13:21, "Paul E. Lehmann"
> > > wrote:
> >> michael wrote:
> >> > Thanks again for all of the advice on my
> >> > previous post,which will take some
> >> > digesting,but very informative.My technique
> >> > so far has been as follows. 1.Early in the
> >> > summer I start taking out lateral side shoots
> >> > so that I do not get too much of a thick
> >> > unmanageable hedge later on.I do not take
> >> > them all out as I wonder whether they will
> >> > help the grapes grow and mature later.
>
> >> Here is something to consider. At the field
> >> day summer education meeting a few weeks ago,
> >> it was brought up that in some cases it might
> >> make sense to leave the lateral and cut out the
> >> main shoot.
>
> >> > I am
> >> > still unclear as to whether this is correct
> >> > and whether I am inhibiting bud formation on
> >> > those canes I leave for next year.(I use
> >> > Double Guyot cane pruning and leave a couple
> >> > of canes growing from near the old base for
> >> > next years canes.)
>
> >> This is the same system I am using. On some of
> >> my older widely spaced vines I am retaining
> >> cordon spur. I may consider infill planting
> >> later but planting between older established
> >> vines may not be the best thing to do.
>
> >> > 2.I tie in the main shoots vertically early
> >> > on to prevent them getting tangled.Sometimes
> >> > with the occasional strong winds,these blow
> >> > sideways,and I really need a better technique
> >> > for tying in the shoots.
>
> >> How do you have your wires? It is difficult to
> >> see or explain without pictures.
>
> >> I have three sets of parallel wires on both
> >> sides of the post about 6 to 9 inches apart
> >> horizontally and spaced about a foot apart
> >> vertically.
>
> >> You can get plastic "C" clips, which are often
> >> used for attaching bird netting, and after the
> >> shoots are long enough to go between the wires
> >> merely "C" clip the two wires together. This
> >> will hold the shoots in place without tying. I
> >> learned this trick several weeks ago at the
> >> summer educational meeting I mentioned.
>
> >> > I use 2-ply string tied
> >> > tightly round the horizontal wire,and loosely
> >> > round the vertical cane-however tight I tie
> >> > onto the wire it tends to move,and I think I
> >> > need a better technique.One book I use
> >> > suggests twist ties(plastic coated wire),but
> >> > surely they are difficult to remove during
> >> > pruning?
>
> >> > 3.About the end of June(i.e.now) I start
> >> > hedging by top cutting the longest canes,and
> >> > continue to take out some of the long side
> >> > shoots(is this correct?)-perhaps I should
> >> > just hedge the vines top and sides?
>
> >> Sounds good to me.
>
> >> > 4.During July and August I start leaf removal
> >> > (not all ) around the grape clusters to let
> >> > the light and sulphur spray particularly into
> >> > the grape region.
>
> >> This depends on your growing season. I start
> >> doing some very light initial leaf pulling on
> >> the East side after fruit set or slightly
> >> before. I make a couple passes during the
> >> season because as the clusters mature they will
> >> hang instead of being upright and different
> >> leaves will be in the way of sunlight.
>
> >> > At the end of August I stop pruning
> >> > and net against bird attack(we have woodland
> >> > all around and this is particularly necessary
> >> > quite early).
>
> >> In my area I have to net around the first week
> >> in August. That is when verasion begins here
> >> and that is when the birds get interested.
>
> >> > Thanks again,Michael.Any further advice very
> >> > welcome.
>
> >> Sounds like you are on the right track.
>
> > Thanks for that.I have tried the plastic C-clips
> > to tie my double wires together.I find that this
> > makes it more difficult to sort out the crossing
> > shoots and also makes it more difficult to spray
> > so effectively-but I do use them
> > sometimes.However I mainly fall back on tying
> > with string.
>
> I bought some plastic coated ties. They can be
> undone and used year after year.
>
> > It seems that I use the same system
> > as you-three single wires 9" apart with the
> > lowest about 18" from the ground,then two sets
> > of double wires about 6-9" apart-mine are rarely
> > tight!,then two more single wires with the top
> > wire at about 5'6".
> > I am interested in your
> > comment that you learned that it was better to
> > prune the leaders than take the side shoots
> > out.
>
> Sorry to mislead you. I did not mean in any way
> to do this for all laterals. Sometimes though,
> you may have a "bull cane" where this makes
> sense. Bull canes have long internode spacing
> the laterals have shorter ones with more leaves.
> So far, I have not done this - because I have not
> so far this year had a situation that waranted
> it.
>
> > What was the reason given for this?Is it to
> > do with the most efficient way to provide energy
> > to the growing clusters through these leaves.I
> > can see why the leaves on extension shoots
> > 10'-20' away may have little effect.
> > Cheers,Michael
>
> You are in England, right?
> What varieties are you growing?

wrote:

> "You are in England, right?"
>
> That's another thing to consider. By the end of
> the year as the grapes are ripening the sun is
> lower in the sky up there in England. You may
> need all the leaves you can get. BTW, are you
> growing white wine? White wine is more forgiving
> if your grapes don't ripen fully.
>
> Bob

Bob, the summers in the northern latitudes have a
LOT of sunlight in the growing season. Ever been
to Anchorage and seen all the plants that grow
there in the summer? It is truly amazing.

Not all grapes require the "growing season" such
as Cabernet Sauvignon - as an example.


>
> Jun 26, 11:16 am, "Paul E. Lehmann"
> > wrote:
>> michael wrote:
>> > On 26 Jun, 13:21, "Paul E. Lehmann"
>> > > wrote:
>> >> michael wrote:
>> >> > Thanks again for all of the advice on my
>> >> > previous post,which will take some
>> >> > digesting,but very informative.My
>> >> > technique so far has been as follows.
>> >> > 1.Early in the summer I start taking out
>> >> > lateral side shoots so that I do not get
>> >> > too much of a thick unmanageable hedge
>> >> > later on.I do not take them all out as I
>> >> > wonder whether they will help the grapes
>> >> > grow and mature later.
>>
>> >> Here is something to consider. At the field
>> >> day summer education meeting a few weeks
>> >> ago, it was brought up that in some cases it
>> >> might make sense to leave the lateral and
>> >> cut out the main shoot.
>>
>> >> > I am
>> >> > still unclear as to whether this is
>> >> > correct and whether I am inhibiting bud
>> >> > formation on those canes I leave for next
>> >> > year.(I use Double Guyot cane pruning and
>> >> > leave a couple of canes growing from near
>> >> > the old base for next years canes.)
>>
>> >> This is the same system I am using. On some
>> >> of my older widely spaced vines I am
>> >> retaining
>> >> cordon spur. I may consider infill planting
>> >> later but planting between older established
>> >> vines may not be the best thing to do.
>>
>> >> > 2.I tie in the main shoots vertically
>> >> > early on to prevent them getting
>> >> > tangled.Sometimes with the occasional
>> >> > strong winds,these blow sideways,and I
>> >> > really need a better technique for tying
>> >> > in the shoots.
>>
>> >> How do you have your wires? It is difficult
>> >> to see or explain without pictures.
>>
>> >> I have three sets of parallel wires on both
>> >> sides of the post about 6 to 9 inches apart
>> >> horizontally and spaced about a foot apart
>> >> vertically.
>>
>> >> You can get plastic "C" clips, which are
>> >> often used for attaching bird netting, and
>> >> after the shoots are long enough to go
>> >> between the wires
>> >> merely "C" clip the two wires together.
>> >> This
>> >> will hold the shoots in place without tying.
>> >> I learned this trick several weeks ago at
>> >> the summer educational meeting I mentioned.
>>
>> >> > I use 2-ply string tied
>> >> > tightly round the horizontal wire,and
>> >> > loosely round the vertical cane-however
>> >> > tight I tie onto the wire it tends to
>> >> > move,and I think I need a better
>> >> > technique.One book I use suggests twist
>> >> > ties(plastic coated wire),but surely they
>> >> > are difficult to remove during pruning?
>>
>> >> > 3.About the end of June(i.e.now) I start
>> >> > hedging by top cutting the longest
>> >> > canes,and continue to take out some of the
>> >> > long side shoots(is this correct?)-perhaps
>> >> > I should just hedge the vines top and
>> >> > sides?
>>
>> >> Sounds good to me.
>>
>> >> > 4.During July and August I start leaf
>> >> > removal (not all ) around the grape
>> >> > clusters to let the light and sulphur
>> >> > spray particularly into the grape region.
>>
>> >> This depends on your growing season. I
>> >> start doing some very light initial leaf
>> >> pulling on the East side after fruit set or
>> >> slightly
>> >> before. I make a couple passes during the
>> >> season because as the clusters mature they
>> >> will hang instead of being upright and
>> >> different leaves will be in the way of
>> >> sunlight.
>>
>> >> > At the end of August I stop pruning
>> >> > and net against bird attack(we have
>> >> > woodland all around and this is
>> >> > particularly necessary quite early).
>>
>> >> In my area I have to net around the first
>> >> week
>> >> in August. That is when verasion begins
>> >> here and that is when the birds get
>> >> interested.
>>
>> >> > Thanks again,Michael.Any further advice
>> >> > very welcome.
>>
>> >> Sounds like you are on the right track.
>>
>> > Thanks for that.I have tried the plastic
>> > C-clips to tie my double wires together.I
>> > find that this makes it more difficult to
>> > sort out the crossing shoots and also makes
>> > it more difficult to spray so effectively-but
>> > I do use them sometimes.However I mainly fall
>> > back on tying with string.
>>
>> I bought some plastic coated ties. They can be
>> undone and used year after year.
>>
>> > It seems that I use the same system
>> > as you-three single wires 9" apart with the
>> > lowest about 18" from the ground,then two
>> > sets of double wires about 6-9" apart-mine
>> > are rarely tight!,then two more single wires
>> > with the top wire at about 5'6".
>> > I am interested in your
>> > comment that you learned that it was better
>> > to prune the leaders than take the side
>> > shoots out.
>>
>> Sorry to mislead you. I did not mean in any
>> way
>> to do this for all laterals. Sometimes though,
>> you may have a "bull cane" where this makes
>> sense. Bull canes have long internode spacing
>> the laterals have shorter ones with more
>> leaves. So far, I have not done this - because
>> I have not so far this year had a situation
>> that waranted it.
>>
>> > What was the reason given for this?Is it to
>> > do with the most efficient way to provide
>> > energy to the growing clusters through these
>> > leaves.I can see why the leaves on extension
>> > shoots 10'-20' away may have little effect.
>> > Cheers,Michael
>>
>> You are in England, right?
>> What varieties are you growing?

So are you saying the north pole is the next great viticultual area
that has yet to be discovered?

Bob

On Jun 27, 8:30 pm, "Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote:
> wrote:
> > "You are in England, right?"
>
> > That's another thing to consider. By the end of
> > the year as the grapes are ripening the sun is
> > lower in the sky up there in England. You may
> > need all the leaves you can get. BTW, are you
> > growing white wine? White wine is more forgiving
> > if your grapes don't ripen fully.
>
> > Bob
>
> Bob, the summers in the northern latitudes have a
> LOT of sunlight in the growing season. Ever been
> to Anchorage and seen all the plants that grow
> there in the summer? It is truly amazing.
>
> Not all grapes require the "growing season" such
> as Cabernet Sauvignon - as an example.
>
>
>
> > Jun 26, 11:16 am, "Paul E. Lehmann"
> > > wrote:
> >> michael wrote:
> >> > On 26 Jun, 13:21, "Paul E. Lehmann"
> >> > > wrote:
> >> >> michael wrote:
> >> >> > Thanks again for all of the advice on my
> >> >> > previous post,which will take some
> >> >> > digesting,but very informative.My
> >> >> > technique so far has been as follows.
> >> >> > 1.Early in the summer I start taking out
> >> >> > lateral side shoots so that I do not get
> >> >> > too much of a thick unmanageable hedge
> >> >> > later on.I do not take them all out as I
> >> >> > wonder whether they will help the grapes
> >> >> > grow and mature later.
>
> >> >> Here is something to consider. At the field
> >> >> day summer education meeting a few weeks
> >> >> ago, it was brought up that in some cases it
> >> >> might make sense to leave the lateral and
> >> >> cut out the main shoot.
>
> >> >> > I am
> >> >> > still unclear as to whether this is
> >> >> > correct and whether I am inhibiting bud
> >> >> > formation on those canes I leave for next
> >> >> > year.(I use Double Guyot cane pruning and
> >> >> > leave a couple of canes growing from near
> >> >> > the old base for next years canes.)
>
> >> >> This is the same system I am using. On some
> >> >> of my older widely spaced vines I am
> >> >> retaining
> >> >> cordon spur. I may consider infill planting
> >> >> later but planting between older established
> >> >> vines may not be the best thing to do.
>
> >> >> > 2.I tie in the main shoots vertically
> >> >> > early on to prevent them getting
> >> >> > tangled.Sometimes with the occasional
> >> >> > strong winds,these blow sideways,and I
> >> >> > really need a better technique for tying
> >> >> > in the shoots.
>
> >> >> How do you have your wires? It is difficult
> >> >> to see or explain without pictures.
>
> >> >> I have three sets of parallel wires on both
> >> >> sides of the post about 6 to 9 inches apart
> >> >> horizontally and spaced about a foot apart
> >> >> vertically.
>
> >> >> You can get plastic "C" clips, which are
> >> >> often used for attaching bird netting, and
> >> >> after the shoots are long enough to go
> >> >> between the wires
> >> >> merely "C" clip the two wires together.
> >> >> This
> >> >> will hold the shoots in place without tying.
> >> >> I learned this trick several weeks ago at
> >> >> the summer educational meeting I mentioned.
>
> >> >> > I use 2-ply string tied
> >> >> > tightly round the horizontal wire,and
> >> >> > loosely round the vertical cane-however
> >> >> > tight I tie onto the wire it tends to
> >> >> > move,and I think I need a better
> >> >> > technique.One book I use suggests twist
> >> >> > ties(plastic coated wire),but surely they
> >> >> > are difficult to remove during pruning?
>
> >> >> > 3.About the end of June(i.e.now) I start
> >> >> > hedging by top cutting the longest
> >> >> > canes,and continue to take out some of the
> >> >> > long side shoots(is this correct?)-perhaps
> >> >> > I should just hedge the vines top and
> >> >> > sides?
>
> >> >> Sounds good to me.
>
> >> >> > 4.During July and August I start leaf
> >> >> > removal (not all ) around the grape
> >> >> > clusters to let the light and sulphur
> >> >> > spray particularly into the grape region.
>
> >> >> This depends on your growing season. I
> >> >> start doing some very light initial leaf
> >> >> pulling on the East side after fruit set or
> >> >> slightly
> >> >> before. I make a couple passes during the
> >> >> season because as the clusters mature they
> >> >> will hang instead of being upright and
> >> >> different leaves will be in the way of
> >> >> sunlight.
>
> >> >> > At the end of August I stop pruning
> >> >> > and net against bird attack(we have
> >> >> > woodland all around and this is
> >> >> > particularly necessary quite early).
>
> >> >> In my area I have to net around the first
> >> >> week
> >> >> in August. That is when verasion begins
> >> >> here and that is when the birds get
> >> >> interested.
>
> >> >> > Thanks again,Michael.Any further advice
> >> >> > very welcome.
>
> >> >> Sounds like you are on the right track.
>
> >> > Thanks for that.I have tried the plastic
> >> > C-clips to tie my double wires together.I
> >> > find that this makes it more difficult to
> >> > sort out the crossing shoots and also makes
> >> > it more difficult to spray so effectively-but
> >> > I do use them sometimes.However I mainly fall
> >> > back on tying with string.
>
> >> I bought some plastic coated ties. They can be
> >> undone and used year after year.
>
> >> > It seems that I use the same system
> >> > as you-three single wires 9" apart with the
> >> > lowest about 18" from the ground,then two
> >> > sets of double wires about 6-9" apart-mine
> >> > are rarely tight!,then two more single wires
> >> > with the top wire at about 5'6".
> >> > I am interested in your
> >> > comment that you learned that it was better
> >> > to prune the leaders than take the side
> >> > shoots out.
>
> >> Sorry to mislead you. I did not mean in any
> >> way
> >> to do this for all laterals. Sometimes though,
> >> you may have a "bull cane" where this makes
> >> sense. Bull canes have long internode spacing
> >> the laterals have shorter ones with more
> >> leaves. So far, I have not done this - because
> >> I have not so far this year had a situation
> >> that waranted it.
>
> >> > What was the reason given for this?Is it to
> >> > do with the most efficient way to provide
> >> > energy to the growing clusters through these
> >> > leaves.I can see why the leaves on extension
> >> > shoots 10'-20' away may have little effect.
> >> > Cheers,Michael
>
> >> You are in England, right?
> >> What varieties are you growing?

wrote:

> So are you saying the north pole is the next
> great viticultual area that has yet to be
> discovered?
>
> Bob

Visit Anchorage some time in the summer. You
would be amazed at the size and abundance of
things grown there in the summer. You would also
be amazed at the daylight hours in the summer.

Anchorage is not the North Pole, but I think you
get the idea.

Grapes are being grown commercially as far north
as Vancouver Island and in a region of British
Colombia. I am going to visit there this August.

>
> On Jun 27, 8:30 pm, "Paul E. Lehmann"
> > wrote:
>> wrote:
>> > "You are in England, right?"
>>
>> > That's another thing to consider. By the end
>> > of the year as the grapes are ripening the
>> > sun is lower in the sky up there in England.
>> > You may
>> > need all the leaves you can get. BTW, are
>> > you growing white wine? White wine is more
>> > forgiving if your grapes don't ripen fully.
>>
>> > Bob
>>
>> Bob, the summers in the northern latitudes have
>> a
>> LOT of sunlight in the growing season. Ever
>> been to Anchorage and seen all the plants that
>> grow
>> there in the summer? It is truly amazing.
>>
>> Not all grapes require the "growing season"
>> such as Cabernet Sauvignon - as an example.
>>
>>
>>
>> > Jun 26, 11:16 am, "Paul E. Lehmann"
>> > > wrote:
>> >> michael wrote:
>> >> > On 26 Jun, 13:21, "Paul E. Lehmann"
>> >> > > wrote:
>> >> >> michael wrote:
>> >> >> > Thanks again for all of the advice on
>> >> >> > my previous post,which will take some
>> >> >> > digesting,but very informative.My
>> >> >> > technique so far has been as follows.
>> >> >> > 1.Early in the summer I start taking
>> >> >> > out lateral side shoots so that I do
>> >> >> > not get too much of a thick
>> >> >> > unmanageable hedge later on.I do not
>> >> >> > take them all out as I wonder whether
>> >> >> > they will help the grapes grow and
>> >> >> > mature later.
>>
>> >> >> Here is something to consider. At the
>> >> >> field day summer education meeting a few
>> >> >> weeks ago, it was brought up that in some
>> >> >> cases it might make sense to leave the
>> >> >> lateral and cut out the main shoot.
>>
>> >> >> > I am
>> >> >> > still unclear as to whether this is
>> >> >> > correct and whether I am inhibiting bud
>> >> >> > formation on those canes I leave for
>> >> >> > next year.(I use Double Guyot cane
>> >> >> > pruning and leave a couple of canes
>> >> >> > growing from near the old base for next
>> >> >> > years canes.)
>>
>> >> >> This is the same system I am using. On
>> >> >> some of my older widely spaced vines I am
>> >> >> retaining
>> >> >> cordon spur. I may consider infill
>> >> >> planting later but planting between older
>> >> >> established vines may not be the best
>> >> >> thing to do.
>>
>> >> >> > 2.I tie in the main shoots vertically
>> >> >> > early on to prevent them getting
>> >> >> > tangled.Sometimes with the occasional
>> >> >> > strong winds,these blow sideways,and I
>> >> >> > really need a better technique for
>> >> >> > tying in the shoots.
>>
>> >> >> How do you have your wires? It is
>> >> >> difficult to see or explain without
>> >> >> pictures.
>>
>> >> >> I have three sets of parallel wires on
>> >> >> both sides of the post about 6 to 9
>> >> >> inches apart horizontally and spaced
>> >> >> about a foot apart vertically.
>>
>> >> >> You can get plastic "C" clips, which are
>> >> >> often used for attaching bird netting,
>> >> >> and after the shoots are long enough to
>> >> >> go between the wires
>> >> >> merely "C" clip the two wires together.
>> >> >> This
>> >> >> will hold the shoots in place without
>> >> >> tying.
>> >> >> I learned this trick several weeks ago
>> >> >> at
>> >> >> the summer educational meeting I
>> >> >> mentioned.
>>
>> >> >> > I use 2-ply string tied
>> >> >> > tightly round the horizontal wire,and
>> >> >> > loosely round the vertical cane-however
>> >> >> > tight I tie onto the wire it tends to
>> >> >> > move,and I think I need a better
>> >> >> > technique.One book I use suggests twist
>> >> >> > ties(plastic coated wire),but surely
>> >> >> > they are difficult to remove during
>> >> >> > pruning?
>>
>> >> >> > 3.About the end of June(i.e.now) I
>> >> >> > start hedging by top cutting the
>> >> >> > longest canes,and continue to take out
>> >> >> > some of the long side shoots(is this
>> >> >> > correct?)-perhaps I should just hedge
>> >> >> > the vines top and sides?
>>
>> >> >> Sounds good to me.
>>
>> >> >> > 4.During July and August I start leaf
>> >> >> > removal (not all ) around the grape
>> >> >> > clusters to let the light and sulphur
>> >> >> > spray particularly into the grape
>> >> >> > region.
>>
>> >> >> This depends on your growing season. I
>> >> >> start doing some very light initial leaf
>> >> >> pulling on the East side after fruit set
>> >> >> or slightly
>> >> >> before. I make a couple passes during
>> >> >> the season because as the clusters mature
>> >> >> they will hang instead of being upright
>> >> >> and different leaves will be in the way
>> >> >> of sunlight.
>>
>> >> >> > At the end of August I stop pruning
>> >> >> > and net against bird attack(we have
>> >> >> > woodland all around and this is
>> >> >> > particularly necessary quite early).
>>
>> >> >> In my area I have to net around the first
>> >> >> week
>> >> >> in August. That is when verasion begins
>> >> >> here and that is when the birds get
>> >> >> interested.
>>
>> >> >> > Thanks again,Michael.Any further advice
>> >> >> > very welcome.
>>
>> >> >> Sounds like you are on the right track.
>>
>> >> > Thanks for that.I have tried the plastic
>> >> > C-clips to tie my double wires together.I
>> >> > find that this makes it more difficult to
>> >> > sort out the crossing shoots and also
>> >> > makes it more difficult to spray so
>> >> > effectively-but I do use them
>> >> > sometimes.However I mainly fall back on
>> >> > tying with string.
>>
>> >> I bought some plastic coated ties. They can
>> >> be undone and used year after year.
>>
>> >> > It seems that I use the same system
>> >> > as you-three single wires 9" apart with
>> >> > the lowest about 18" from the ground,then
>> >> > two sets of double wires about 6-9"
>> >> > apart-mine are rarely tight!,then two more
>> >> > single wires with the top wire at about
>> >> > 5'6". I am interested in your
>> >> > comment that you learned that it was
>> >> > better to prune the leaders than take the
>> >> > side shoots out.
>>
>> >> Sorry to mislead you. I did not mean in any
>> >> way
>> >> to do this for all laterals. Sometimes
>> >> though, you may have a "bull cane" where
>> >> this makes
>> >> sense. Bull canes have long internode
>> >> spacing the laterals have shorter ones with
>> >> more leaves. So far, I have not done this -
>> >> because I have not so far this year had a
>> >> situation that waranted it.
>>
>> >> > What was the reason given for this?Is it
>> >> > to do with the most efficient way to
>> >> > provide energy to the growing clusters
>> >> > through these leaves.I can see why the
>> >> > leaves on extension shoots 10'-20' away
>> >> > may have little effect. Cheers,Michael
>>
>> >> You are in England, right?
>> >> What varieties are you growing?

On 26 Jun, 17:16, "Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote:
> michael wrote:
> > On 26 Jun, 13:21, "Paul E. Lehmann"
> > > wrote:
> >> michael wrote:
> >> > Thanks again for all of the advice on my
> >> > previous post,which will take some
> >> > digesting,but very informative.My technique
> >> > so far has been as follows. 1.Early in the
> >> > summer I start taking out lateral side shoots
> >> > so that I do not get too much of a thick
> >> > unmanageable hedge later on.I do not take
> >> > them all out as I wonder whether they will
> >> > help the grapes grow and mature later.
>
> >> Here is something to consider. *At the field
> >> day summer education meeting a few weeks ago,
> >> it was brought up that in some cases it might
> >> make sense to leave the lateral and cut out the
> >> main shoot.
>
> >> > I am
> >> > still unclear as to whether this is correct
> >> > and whether I am inhibiting bud formation on
> >> > those canes I leave for next year.(I use
> >> > Double Guyot cane pruning and leave a couple
> >> > of canes growing from near the old base for
> >> > next years canes.)
>
> >> This is the same system I am using. *On some of
> >> my older widely spaced vines I am retaining
> >> cordon spur. *I may consider infill planting
> >> later but planting between older established
> >> vines may not be the best thing to do.
>
> >> > 2.I tie in the main shoots vertically early
> >> > on to prevent them getting tangled.Sometimes
> >> > with the occasional strong winds,these blow
> >> > sideways,and I really need a better technique
> >> > for tying in the shoots.
>
> >> How do you have your wires? *It is difficult to
> >> see or explain without pictures.
>
> >> I have three sets of parallel wires on both
> >> sides of the post about 6 to 9 inches apart
> >> horizontally and spaced about a foot apart
> >> vertically.
>
> >> You can get plastic "C" clips, which are often
> >> used for attaching bird netting, and after the
> >> shoots are long enough to go between the wires
> >> merely "C" clip the two wires together. *This
> >> will hold the shoots in place without tying. *I
> >> learned this trick several weeks ago at the
> >> summer educational meeting I mentioned.
>
> >> > I use 2-ply string tied
> >> > tightly round the horizontal wire,and loosely
> >> > round the vertical cane-however tight I tie
> >> > onto the wire it tends to move,and I think I
> >> > need a better technique.One book I use
> >> > suggests twist ties(plastic coated wire),but
> >> > surely they are difficult to remove during
> >> > pruning?
>
> >> > 3.About the end of June(i.e.now) I start
> >> > hedging by top cutting the longest canes,and
> >> > continue to take out some of the long side
> >> > shoots(is this correct?)-perhaps I should
> >> > just hedge the vines top and sides?
>
> >> Sounds good to me.
>
> >> > 4.During July and August I start leaf removal
> >> > (not all ) around the grape clusters to let
> >> > the light and sulphur spray particularly into
> >> > the grape region.
>
> >> This depends on your growing season. *I start
> >> doing some very light initial leaf pulling on
> >> the East side after fruit set or slightly
> >> before. *I make a couple passes during the
> >> season because as the clusters mature they will
> >> hang instead of being upright and different
> >> leaves will be in the way of sunlight.
>
> >> > At the end of August I stop pruning
> >> > and net against bird attack(we have woodland
> >> > all around and this is particularly necessary
> >> > quite early).
>
> >> In my area I have to net around the first week
> >> in August. *That is when verasion begins here
> >> and that is when the birds get interested.
>
> >> > Thanks again,Michael.Any further advice very
> >> > welcome.
>
> >> Sounds like you are on the right track.
>
> > Thanks for that.I have tried the plastic C-clips
> > to tie my double wires together.I find that this
> > makes it more difficult to sort out the crossing
> > shoots and also makes it more difficult to spray
> > so effectively-but I do use them
> > sometimes.However I mainly fall back on tying
> > with string.
>
> I bought some plastic coated ties. *They can be
> undone and used year after year.
>
> > It seems that I use the same system
> > as you-three single wires 9" apart with the
> > lowest about 18" from the ground,then two sets
> > of double wires about 6-9" apart-mine are rarely
> > tight!,then two more single wires with the top
> > wire at about 5'6".
> > I am interested in your
> > comment that you learned that it was better to
> > prune the leaders than take the side shoots
> > out.
>
> Sorry to mislead you. *I did not mean in any way
> to do this for all laterals. *Sometimes though,
> you may have a "bull cane" where this makes
> sense. *Bull canes have long internode spacing
> the laterals have shorter ones with more leaves.
> So far, I have not done this - because I have not
> so far this year had a situation that waranted
> it.
>
> > What was the reason given for this?Is it to
> > do with the most efficient way to provide energy
> > to the growing clusters through these leaves.I
> > can see why the leaves on extension shoots
> > 10'-20' away may have little effect.
> > Cheers,Michael
>
> You are in England, right?
> What varieties are you growing?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Hi Paul,
I grow five varieties of grapes in
Herefordshire,England,which is becoming a good climate for vines-we
have about 28" of rainfall annually and typically bright autumns.They
a

Bacchus-a white grape.Ripens early October

Schonburger-a white grape.Ripens mid october

Rondo-a red grape .Ripens late September.

Regent -a red grape .Ripens mid October.

Johanniter-a new white hybrid.

I have chosen the above varieties as they have all been developed in
Germany for early ripening.Rondo,Regent and Johanniter are 'new'
disease resistant varieties and do not suffer much from powdery
mildew.Bacchus and Schonburger are older hybrids which (when grown in
England)have won top prizes in European blind tastings.

I also know of some English vineyards who are beginning to plant
Cabernet sauvingnon,so our climate must be getting better.Typically
our rainfull is not that high,and we often have long dry spells-we are
on a s-facing limestone soil so our drainage is excellent also.
Cheers,Michael

Bacchus-a white variety that is popular in Germany

michael wrote:

> On 26 Jun, 17:16, "Paul E. Lehmann"
> > wrote:
>> michael wrote:
>> > On 26 Jun, 13:21, "Paul E. Lehmann"
>> > > wrote:
>> >> michael wrote:
>> >> > Thanks again for all of the advice on my
>> >> > previous post,which will take some
>> >> > digesting,but very informative.My
>> >> > technique so far has been as follows.
>> >> > 1.Early in the summer I start taking out
>> >> > lateral side shoots so that I do not get
>> >> > too much of a thick unmanageable hedge
>> >> > later on.I do not take them all out as I
>> >> > wonder whether they will help the grapes
>> >> > grow and mature later.
>>
>> >> Here is something to consider. *At the field
>> >> day summer education meeting a few weeks
>> >> ago, it was brought up that in some cases it
>> >> might make sense to leave the lateral and
>> >> cut out the main shoot.
>>
>> >> > I am
>> >> > still unclear as to whether this is
>> >> > correct and whether I am inhibiting bud
>> >> > formation on those canes I leave for next
>> >> > year.(I use Double Guyot cane pruning and
>> >> > leave a couple of canes growing from near
>> >> > the old base for next years canes.)
>>
>> >> This is the same system I am using. *On some
>> >> of my older widely spaced vines I am
>> >> retaining cordon spur. *I may consider
>> >> infill planting later but planting between
>> >> older established vines may not be the best
>> >> thing to do.
>>
>> >> > 2.I tie in the main shoots vertically
>> >> > early on to prevent them getting
>> >> > tangled.Sometimes with the occasional
>> >> > strong winds,these blow sideways,and I
>> >> > really need a better technique for tying
>> >> > in the shoots.
>>
>> >> How do you have your wires? *It is difficult
>> >> to see or explain without pictures.
>>
>> >> I have three sets of parallel wires on both
>> >> sides of the post about 6 to 9 inches apart
>> >> horizontally and spaced about a foot apart
>> >> vertically.
>>
>> >> You can get plastic "C" clips, which are
>> >> often used for attaching bird netting, and
>> >> after the shoots are long enough to go
>> >> between the wires merely "C" clip the two
>> >> wires together. *This will hold the shoots
>> >> in place without tying. *I learned this
>> >> trick several weeks ago at the summer
>> >> educational meeting I mentioned.
>>
>> >> > I use 2-ply string tied
>> >> > tightly round the horizontal wire,and
>> >> > loosely round the vertical cane-however
>> >> > tight I tie onto the wire it tends to
>> >> > move,and I think I need a better
>> >> > technique.One book I use suggests twist
>> >> > ties(plastic coated wire),but surely they
>> >> > are difficult to remove during pruning?
>>
>> >> > 3.About the end of June(i.e.now) I start
>> >> > hedging by top cutting the longest
>> >> > canes,and continue to take out some of the
>> >> > long side shoots(is this correct?)-perhaps
>> >> > I should just hedge the vines top and
>> >> > sides?
>>
>> >> Sounds good to me.
>>
>> >> > 4.During July and August I start leaf
>> >> > removal (not all ) around the grape
>> >> > clusters to let the light and sulphur
>> >> > spray particularly into the grape region.
>>
>> >> This depends on your growing season. *I
>> >> start doing some very light initial leaf
>> >> pulling on the East side after fruit set or
>> >> slightly before. *I make a couple passes
>> >> during the season because as the clusters
>> >> mature they will hang instead of being
>> >> upright and different leaves will be in the
>> >> way of sunlight.
>>
>> >> > At the end of August I stop pruning
>> >> > and net against bird attack(we have
>> >> > woodland all around and this is
>> >> > particularly necessary quite early).
>>
>> >> In my area I have to net around the first
>> >> week in August. *That is when verasion
>> >> begins here and that is when the birds get
>> >> interested.
>>
>> >> > Thanks again,Michael.Any further advice
>> >> > very welcome.
>>
>> >> Sounds like you are on the right track.
>>
>> > Thanks for that.I have tried the plastic
>> > C-clips to tie my double wires together.I
>> > find that this makes it more difficult to
>> > sort out the crossing shoots and also makes
>> > it more difficult to spray so effectively-but
>> > I do use them sometimes.However I mainly fall
>> > back on tying with string.
>>
>> I bought some plastic coated ties. *They can be
>> undone and used year after year.
>>
>> > It seems that I use the same system
>> > as you-three single wires 9" apart with the
>> > lowest about 18" from the ground,then two
>> > sets of double wires about 6-9" apart-mine
>> > are rarely tight!,then two more single wires
>> > with the top wire at about 5'6".
>> > I am interested in your
>> > comment that you learned that it was better
>> > to prune the leaders than take the side
>> > shoots out.
>>
>> Sorry to mislead you. *I did not mean in any
>> way to do this for all laterals. *Sometimes
>> though, you may have a "bull cane" where this
>> makes sense. *Bull canes have long internode
>> spacing the laterals have shorter ones with
>> more leaves. So far, I have not done this -
>> because I have not so far this year had a
>> situation that waranted it.
>>
>> > What was the reason given for this?Is it to
>> > do with the most efficient way to provide
>> > energy to the growing clusters through these
>> > leaves.I can see why the leaves on extension
>> > shoots 10'-20' away may have little effect.
>> > Cheers,Michael
>>
>> You are in England, right?
>> What varieties are you growing?- Hide quoted
>> text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Hi Paul,
> I grow five varieties of grapes in
> Herefordshire,England,which is becoming a good
> climate for vines-we have about 28" of rainfall
> annually and typically bright autumns.They a
>
> Bacchus-a white grape.Ripens early October
>
> Schonburger-a white grape.Ripens mid october
>
> Rondo-a red grape .Ripens late September.
>
> Regent -a red grape .Ripens mid October.
>
> Johanniter-a new white hybrid.
>
> I have chosen the above varieties as they have
> all been developed in Germany for early
> ripening.Rondo,Regent and Johanniter are 'new'
> disease resistant varieties and do not suffer
> much from powdery mildew.Bacchus and Schonburger
> are older hybrids which (when grown in
> England)have won top prizes in European blind
> tastings.
>
> I also know of some English vineyards who are
> beginning to plant Cabernet sauvingnon,so our
> climate must be getting better.Typically our
> rainfull is not that high,and we often have long
> dry spells-we are on a s-facing limestone soil
> so our drainage is excellent also.
> Cheers,Michael
>
> Bacchus-a white variety that is popular in
> Germany

That sounds interesting. Cabernet Sauvignon seems
to require a long hang time and around here
generally is not ready for harvest until mid to
late October - providing the killing frosts holds
off that long.

Cabernet Franc seems to be a good variety for
cooler climates. I tasted some excellent locally
grown Cabernet Franc when I visited Nova Scotia.
I was surprised to see vineyards there. I guess
the Gulf Stream really helps moderate the
climate.