Hello folks, coming out of lurking to pose a question from some
results of mine. I recently started winemaking and have nine batches
going (a couple are meads).

So I have noticed that the batches I used Cote des Blancs on have no
"rocket fuel taste" that I can pick up. Indeed, I can barely detect
the alcohol in them (the missing .12 gravity point say it is there).
Most of them were started with OG in the 1120-1130 range and less than
two months old. My strawberry hasn't even cleared yet and tastes
divine already.

I do know what hot tastes like, I have a blueberry/banana that took
1136 down to 0.992 in seven days and the alcohol slaps you in the
face. Didn't expect that from Lavlin 71B.

So is this a common thing with this yeast? I must say that I like how
it behaved. It wasn't fast, but steadily chugged along without foaming
or getting violent. I chose it for low alcohol tolerance on some
experiments with letting the ABV kill off the yeast with residual
sweetness. My theory is that the slow ferment and low flocculation
allow a complete chemical reaction during ferment instead of needing
months/years for this to happen once the wine becomes still.
How will this property translate into long term aging? Is this because
it is missing in "chemical complexity" that reduce aging potential?

Just curious about all this because I really like this yeast now and
am contemplating using it almost exclusively until I run into musts
that it doesn't like. I'm trying to build up a style similar to the
mead guys that use starvation and cold-crashing to leave high OG musts
semi-sweet. I am doing some dry wines, but just used less sugar
instead of a "killer yeast".

Well, with those numbers you *are* making rocket fuel, so perhaps the
lack of said taste on the part of Cote des Blancs should be considered
a sensory defect?

Pp

On Oct 30, 10:25 am, wrote:
> Hello folks, coming out of lurking to pose a question from some
> results of mine. I recently started winemaking and have nine batches
> going (a couple are meads).
>
> So I have noticed that the batches I used Cote des Blancs on have no
> "rocket fuel taste" that I can pick up. Indeed, I can barely detect
> the alcohol in them (the missing .12 gravity point say it is there).
> Most of them were started with OG in the 1120-1130 range and less than
> two months old. My strawberry hasn't even cleared yet and tastes
> divine already.
>
> I do know what hot tastes like, I have a blueberry/banana that took
> 1136 down to 0.992 in seven days and the alcohol slaps you in the
> face. Didn't expect that from Lavlin 71B.
>
> So is this a common thing with this yeast? I must say that I like how
> it behaved. It wasn't fast, but steadily chugged along without foaming
> or getting violent. I chose it for low alcohol tolerance on some
> experiments with letting the ABV kill off the yeast with residual
> sweetness. My theory is that the slow ferment and low flocculation
> allow a complete chemical reaction during ferment instead of needing
> months/years for this to happen once the wine becomes still.
> How will this property translate into long term aging? Is this because
> it is missing in "chemical complexity" that reduce aging potential?
>
> Just curious about all this because I really like this yeast now and
> am contemplating using it almost exclusively until I run into musts
> that it doesn't like. I'm trying to build up a style similar to the
> mead guys that use starvation and cold-crashing to leave high OG musts
> semi-sweet. I am doing some dry wines, but just used less sugar
> instead of a "killer yeast".

I've become a fan of both Lalvin EC-1118 & KV1-1116 for similar reasons.
High SG & PA peach or pear wines fermented into wonderful semi-sweets when
the yeasties gave up the ghost. TA's have been in the 15-18% ranges w/o a
bottle bomb yet in 5 years. & no sorbates etc. These semi-sweets have been
received well even though a little *potent*. The EC-1118 is better, IMHO, to
achieve a totally dry fruit product, but will require some massaging to
prolong its viability. However, the dry result may not be for everyone: the
bone-dry whites faction compare it too really good Entre deux Mers; those
less kind called it two steps away from vinegar (a bit of the rocket fuel
taste, to be precise.) I say keep on in your "research trials" & post
updates! regards, bob



> wrote in message
s.com...
> Hello folks, coming out of lurking to pose a question from some
> results of mine. I recently started winemaking and have nine batches
> going (a couple are meads).
>
> So I have noticed that the batches I used Cote des Blancs on have no
> "rocket fuel taste" that I can pick up. Indeed, I can barely detect
> the alcohol in them (the missing .12 gravity point say it is there).
> Most of them were started with OG in the 1120-1130 range and less than
> two months old. My strawberry hasn't even cleared yet and tastes
> divine already.
>
> I do know what hot tastes like, I have a blueberry/banana that took
> 1136 down to 0.992 in seven days and the alcohol slaps you in the
> face. Didn't expect that from Lavlin 71B.
>
> So is this a common thing with this yeast? I must say that I like how
> it behaved. It wasn't fast, but steadily chugged along without foaming
> or getting violent. I chose it for low alcohol tolerance on some
> experiments with letting the ABV kill off the yeast with residual
> sweetness. My theory is that the slow ferment and low flocculation
> allow a complete chemical reaction during ferment instead of needing
> months/years for this to happen once the wine becomes still.
> How will this property translate into long term aging? Is this because
> it is missing in "chemical complexity" that reduce aging potential?
>
> Just curious about all this because I really like this yeast now and
> am contemplating using it almost exclusively until I run into musts
> that it doesn't like. I'm trying to build up a style similar to the
> mead guys that use starvation and cold-crashing to leave high OG musts
> semi-sweet. I am doing some dry wines, but just used less sugar
> instead of a "killer yeast".
>

On Oct 30, 3:27 pm, pp > wrote:
> Well, with those numbers you *are* making rocket fuel, so perhaps the
> lack of said taste on the part of Cote des Blancs should be considered
> a sensory defect?
>
> Pp
>
Hehe, sensory defect. I like that. I don't think you're joking, but...

At this point, I'm not aiming for fine wine. I don't know if I'd
recognize that if it hit me in the face. I like wines of all types,
but my knowledge is limited to reading and the bottles I've bought
after chatting with the wine store clerks (never paid over $25 for
fear of being taken). A lot of people I would like to share my efforts
with do not like dry wines so I'm practicing on sweet, fruity, high
alcohol varieties that I hope to be a hit at "social gatherings".

But I can taste more alcohol in this 2005 Chilean merlot I'm sipping
than the CdB wines.

Jerry,

What is written by the manufacturer about each yeast is not absolute.
The conditions that the yeast work under are so dramatically different
under each winemaker, and even each must, that the documentation that
is put out by the company should be used as a guide only. If you like
the results with 71B, then use it. There are winemakers who believe
there really is no difference in the yeasts if the wine is allowed to
age more than a year. With meads, I've read rave reviews about D-47
and there are some loyal users of D-47 out there but like they say,
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it.". If 71B is consistently good for
you and you like the results then toss the yeast's manufacturers write-
up in the garbage.

Bob

On Oct 30, 12:25 pm, wrote:
> Hello folks, coming out of lurking to pose a question from some
> results of mine. I recently started winemaking and have nine batches
> going (a couple are meads).
>
> So I have noticed that the batches I used Cote des Blancs on have no
> "rocket fuel taste" that I can pick up. Indeed, I can barely detect
> the alcohol in them (the missing .12 gravity point say it is there).
> Most of them were started with OG in the 1120-1130 range and less than
> two months old. My strawberry hasn't even cleared yet and tastes
> divine already.
>
> I do know what hot tastes like, I have a blueberry/banana that took
> 1136 down to 0.992 in seven days and the alcohol slaps you in the
> face. Didn't expect that from Lavlin 71B.
>
> So is this a common thing with this yeast? I must say that I like how
> it behaved. It wasn't fast, but steadily chugged along without foaming
> or getting violent. I chose it for low alcohol tolerance on some
> experiments with letting the ABV kill off the yeast with residual
> sweetness. My theory is that the slow ferment and low flocculation
> allow a complete chemical reaction during ferment instead of needing
> months/years for this to happen once the wine becomes still.
> How will this property translate into long term aging? Is this because
> it is missing in "chemical complexity" that reduce aging potential?
>
> Just curious about all this because I really like this yeast now and
> am contemplating using it almost exclusively until I run into musts
> that it doesn't like. I'm trying to build up a style similar to the
> mead guys that use starvation and cold-crashing to leave high OG musts
> semi-sweet. I am doing some dry wines, but just used less sugar
> instead of a "killer yeast".

> wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Oct 30, 3:27 pm, pp > wrote:
>> Well, with those numbers you *are* making rocket fuel, so perhaps the
>> lack of said taste on the part of Cote des Blancs should be considered
>> a sensory defect?
>>
>> Pp
>>
> Hehe, sensory defect. I like that. I don't think you're joking, but...
>
> At this point, I'm not aiming for fine wine. I don't know if I'd
> recognize that if it hit me in the face. I like wines of all types,
> but my knowledge is limited to reading and the bottles I've bought
> after chatting with the wine store clerks (never paid over $25 for
> fear of being taken). A lot of people I would like to share my efforts
> with do not like dry wines so I'm practicing on sweet, fruity, high
> alcohol varieties that I hope to be a hit at "social gatherings".
>
> But I can taste more alcohol in this 2005 Chilean merlot I'm sipping
> than the CdB wines.
>

While the numbers you gave here are pretty vague, I think all you
are seeing here is how sugar can "cover" (balance) alcohol "heat".
The Merlot and 71B wines are dry while I would guesstimate the
CdB wine to have between 10 and 20 points of residual sugar.

Easy enough to check this. Take an end SG reading of that CdB
wine. If my guess is right it will fall between 1.000 and 1.010.

Also, take a single glass of that 71B that slapped you in the face
and stir in a little sugar. You will find that the "heat" is diminished.

Should you decide to sweeten that 71B batch before you bottle,
make sure you add sulfite and sorbate. HTH

Frederick