I have a question on tipping etiquette:

In a NY Italian restaurant
Wine was $119
Food was $86
Tax was $18

What would be the approriate tip for very good service?
Typically I leave 20% for such service, however in this case, the wine was
$119. If I include the wine, the tip increases by $24.

I wound up leaving $36 - ultimately leaving a bit over 16% on the entire
bill.

Thank you for your responses.

Brett

While I tend to tip 20% (including wine), I don't think there's any
issue with tipping where you do 15%.

Here's one question- what are we talking about in wine? If I spent $119
for one bottle of Barolo or Brunello, I might tip closer to 15%. Few
waiters at midlevel restuarants aren't going to feel that $18 isn't
fair compensation for opening and pouring one bottle. If we're talking
a bottle of Arneis, a bottle of Barbera, and two glasses of vin santo,
maybe more like 20% - extra glasses, etc. Just a thought.

tipping has nothing to do with etiquette, manners, your individual opinion
or any other such nonsense. it's simply an exchange of values, an exercise
in capitalism and civility.

obviously the concept exceeds the grasp of most european, socialist states
and petulant whine snobs.

if a guest walked into any of my places of business and forewarned us that
he may or may not properly compensate the waitstaff, i'd personally throw
him out on his lard ass. a customer is hardly qualified to evaluate the
performance of a restaurant staff - effective ownership and management
doesn't need any help in that area.

"good service" is not only irrelevant, meaningless and subjective,
efficiency can be related to any number of factors outside a server's
control. if the section was overseated, if the cook is drunk, if some
tightass customer is tying up too much time with petty whining or special
requests .... or if one just happens to have unreasonable expectations.

among civilized folks, the tip is as much a part of the cost as is tax or
parking. among civilized folks, one doesn't dwell on $20. there is no %
differential among the coffee, desert, entree, wine or appetizer. the bill
is the bill. jeez!

only a pompous, cheapskate would make such references. the government
requires withholding based on a percentage of sales - whether the server
gets semi-stiffed or not.

assuming you have jobs, do you negotiate your paycheck week to week, based
on how your employers'/customers' evaluate your performance?

only parasites and deadbeats would seriously discuss the merits of honoring
an business obligation.






"Brett Berrie" > wrote in message
...
>I have a question on tipping etiquette:
>
> In a NY Italian restaurant
> Wine was $119
> Food was $86
> Tax was $18
>
> What would be the approriate tip for very good service?
> Typically I leave 20% for such service, however in this case, the wine was
> $119. If I include the wine, the tip increases by $24.
>
> I wound up leaving $36 - ultimately leaving a bit over 16% on the entire
> bill.
>
> Thank you for your responses.
>
> Brett
>

This is my formula:

Everyone starts out with 20%, then I add or deduct depending on the service.
Some get more, some get less. > wrote in message
...
>I have a question on tipping etiquette:
>
> In a NY Italian restaurant
> Wine was $119
> Food was $86
> Tax was $18
>
> What would be the approriate tip for very good service?
> Typically I leave 20% for such service, however in this case, the wine was
> $119. If I include the wine, the tip increases by $24.
>
> I wound up leaving $36 - ultimately leaving a bit over 16% on the entire
> bill.
>
> Thank you for your responses.
>
> Brett
>

"Brett Berrie" > skrev i melding
...
>I have a question on tipping etiquette:
>
> In a NY Italian restaurant
> Wine was $119
> Food was $86
> Tax was $18
>
> What would be the approriate tip for very good service?
Troll or not, it may be interesting to note that I'd give about 5% for
standard service and only when extraordinarily pleased raise to 10%.
Different countries have different traditions. I've understood that in the
U.S. waiters receive little by way of a decent salary and thus are dependent
on charitable customers tipping. 15-20% seems to be the norm btw.
Other places, like Iceland, have little or no tradition for tipping and some
waiters would find the concept of tipping an insult to their
professionality.... :-) So a discussion of whether 20% is correct probably
is a bit too Americanocentric for an international newsgroup...
Anders

Anders T=F8rneskog wrote:


> Troll or not, it may be interesting to note that I'd give about 5%
for
> standard service and only when extraordinarily pleased raise to 10%.
> Different countries have different traditions. I've understood that
in the
> U.S. waiters receive little by way of a decent salary and thus are
dependent
> on charitable customers tipping. 15-20% seems to be the norm btw.
> Other places, like Iceland, have little or no tradition for tipping
and some
> waiters would find the concept of tipping an insult to their
> professionality.... :-) So a discussion of whether 20% is correct
probably
> is a bit too Americanocentric for an international newsgroup...
> Anders

In Iceland there is a service charge added to the price of the meal so
you have already paid for an excellent meal and top notch service. But
I do not think a waiter at an Icelandic restaurant would refuse a tip
nowadays.

Then why are you still reading his posts??
"Larry" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 18:40:25 +0000 (UTC), "Chuck"
> > wrote:
>
>>Could you let us know the names/locations of your places of business?
>
> Hi Chuck,
>
> I've killfiled this guy about a month ago. Major troll and/or jerk.
>
> All the best,
>
> Larry
>
>
>
>

Then why are you still reading his posts??
"Larry" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 18:40:25 +0000 (UTC), "Chuck"
> > wrote:
>
>>Could you let us know the names/locations of your places of business?
>
> Hi Chuck,
>
> I've killfiled this guy about a month ago. Major troll and/or jerk.
>
> All the best,
>
> Larry
>
>
>
>

Anders Tørneskog wrote:
> "Brett Berrie" > skrev i melding
> ...
>
>>I have a question on tipping etiquette:
>>
>>In a NY Italian restaurant
>>Wine was $119
>>Food was $86
>>Tax was $18
>>
>>What would be the approriate tip for very good service?
>
> Troll or not, it may be interesting to note that I'd give about 5% for
> standard service and only when extraordinarily pleased raise to 10%.
> Different countries have different traditions. I've understood that in the
> U.S. waiters receive little by way of a decent salary and thus are dependent
> on charitable customers tipping. 15-20% seems to be the norm btw.
> Other places, like Iceland, have little or no tradition for tipping and some
> waiters would find the concept of tipping an insult to their
> professionality.... :-) So a discussion of whether 20% is correct probably
> is a bit too Americanocentric for an international newsgroup...
> Anders
>
>

Hi Anders,

Here in Australia we have a non-tipping tradition. But like most things
here it is an American custom, so we are slowly adopting it.

Many Australians are non-tippers. But our service staff get paid a
reasonable wage in non-dodgy resteraunts [some places use "trial
periods", "under the table pay" etc to avoid paying the going rate].

In fact service staff are usually paid as much as anyone else, ie at
least minimum wage here. With tips you can make quite a good living.

If I get good service I'll tip. But there just seems to be so many
places where service is terrible I just think "If you can't be bothered
at least trying you're not getting a tip out of me, in fact I'm
aggrieved I have to pay money for the slop you've just "served" me".

It was quite dangerous in America not tipping. Didn't matter how bad the
service, if you didn't tip a riot broke out.

I personally feel that should be the rule anywhere. Good service == tip.
Bad service [and especially if it was a bad product] == exactly what you
got charged, no more.

I mean service staff get paid as much, if not more as most entry level
type jobs [when I did it you could make a fair ammount of cash with
tipping, its not that hard to be nice and helpful to ppl]. I don't see
too many ppl tipping checkout chicks, sales ppl, burger flippers, bus
drivers etc.


Mat.

Anders Tørneskog wrote:
> "Brett Berrie" > skrev i melding
> ...
>
>>I have a question on tipping etiquette:
>>
>>In a NY Italian restaurant
>>Wine was $119
>>Food was $86
>>Tax was $18
>>
>>What would be the approriate tip for very good service?
>
> Troll or not, it may be interesting to note that I'd give about 5% for
> standard service and only when extraordinarily pleased raise to 10%.
> Different countries have different traditions. I've understood that in the
> U.S. waiters receive little by way of a decent salary and thus are dependent
> on charitable customers tipping. 15-20% seems to be the norm btw.
> Other places, like Iceland, have little or no tradition for tipping and some
> waiters would find the concept of tipping an insult to their
> professionality.... :-) So a discussion of whether 20% is correct probably
> is a bit too Americanocentric for an international newsgroup...
> Anders
>
>

Hi Anders,

Here in Australia we have a non-tipping tradition. But like most things
here it is an American custom, so we are slowly adopting it.

Many Australians are non-tippers. But our service staff get paid a
reasonable wage in non-dodgy resteraunts [some places use "trial
periods", "under the table pay" etc to avoid paying the going rate].

In fact service staff are usually paid as much as anyone else, ie at
least minimum wage here. With tips you can make quite a good living.

If I get good service I'll tip. But there just seems to be so many
places where service is terrible I just think "If you can't be bothered
at least trying you're not getting a tip out of me, in fact I'm
aggrieved I have to pay money for the slop you've just "served" me".

It was quite dangerous in America not tipping. Didn't matter how bad the
service, if you didn't tip a riot broke out.

I personally feel that should be the rule anywhere. Good service == tip.
Bad service [and especially if it was a bad product] == exactly what you
got charged, no more.

I mean service staff get paid as much, if not more as most entry level
type jobs [when I did it you could make a fair ammount of cash with
tipping, its not that hard to be nice and helpful to ppl]. I don't see
too many ppl tipping checkout chicks, sales ppl, burger flippers, bus
drivers etc.


Mat.

Brett Berrie wrote:

> Sorry group...I thought I specified it was a New York restaurant.
>
> BB
>

Hi Brett,

You did specify it was a New York resteraunt.

A lot of the posters here are American, even New Yorkers / NY staters.

I can't see a problem with talking about specific things to a location.

I don't think you did anything wrong personally.


Mat.

funny, but if memory serves me correctly, in old English tea house TIPS
were given to insure prompt service and not vice versa :-)

In article >,
Brett Berrie > wrote:
>
>I have a question on tipping etiquette:
>
>In a NY Italian restaurant
>Wine was $119
>Food was $86
>Tax was $18
>
>What would be the approriate tip for very good service?
>Typically I leave 20% for such service, however in this case, the wine was
>$119. If I include the wine, the tip increases by $24.
>
>I wound up leaving $36 - ultimately leaving a bit over 16% on the entire
>bill.


That was a decent tip if the service was adequate but not great.
Generally, you should tip on the wine as well. However, if I am buying
lots of expensive liquor such that it dwarfs the cost of the food then I
will stick to a fixed price for that part of the tip.


That is, I won't tip more than about $15-20 per bottle of wine no matter
how much the bottle costs, since markups are high already. To me, $20
is as reasonable a tip on a $100 bottle of wine as it is on a $200 bottle.


Dimitri

When I first started traveling to Europe and specifically France and Spain
many years ago I can recall using the American Standard Tipping. A french
waiter followed me out of a restaurant and begged me to take my money back.
That he was a professional. His english was pretty good.

I only wish I knew that 2 weeks earlier when no other server explained that
to me.

I am much smarter now to check out the customs in countries I go to. I hope
the Europeans in this group remember that is a two way street when in the
USA you are on USA standard. When in Rome....blah blah blah


"Anders Tørneskog" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Brett Berrie" > skrev i melding
> ...
>>I have a question on tipping etiquette:
>>
>> In a NY Italian restaurant
>> Wine was $119
>> Food was $86
>> Tax was $18
>>
>> What would be the approriate tip for very good service?
> Troll or not, it may be interesting to note that I'd give about 5% for
> standard service and only when extraordinarily pleased raise to 10%.
> Different countries have different traditions. I've understood that in
> the U.S. waiters receive little by way of a decent salary and thus are
> dependent on charitable customers tipping. 15-20% seems to be the norm
> btw.
> Other places, like Iceland, have little or no tradition for tipping and
> some waiters would find the concept of tipping an insult to their
> professionality.... :-) So a discussion of whether 20% is correct
> probably is a bit too Americanocentric for an international newsgroup...
> Anders
>

Hi, I'm in Atlanta.
15% of total here is considered a bad "tip/gratuity", the norm is
18-20% figured after tax.
I'm currently in the restaurant business & do not agree with the
"Americanized" version of tipping. Tipping (gratuity) has become more
of a wait staff surcharge because tips are considered the rule, not
the exception for above average service and the public & establishment
owners will probably never come to an understanding where the cost of
the service can be built in to the price of the food allowing a decent
wage, think about it - the price in the restaurant has not gone up
that much in the last 10 years when compared to the cost of the
materials.

"Brett Berrie" > wrote:

>I have a question on tipping etiquette:
>
>In a NY Italian restaurant
>Wine was $119
>Food was $86
>Tax was $18
>
>What would be the approriate tip for very good service?
>Typically I leave 20% for such service, however in this case, the wine was
>$119. If I include the wine, the tip increases by $24.
>
>I wound up leaving $36 - ultimately leaving a bit over 16% on the entire
>bill.
>
>Thank you for your responses.
>
>Brett
>

Hi, I'm in Atlanta.
15% of total here is considered a bad "tip/gratuity", the norm is
18-20% figured after tax.
I'm currently in the restaurant business & do not agree with the
"Americanized" version of tipping. Tipping (gratuity) has become more
of a wait staff surcharge because tips are considered the rule, not
the exception for above average service and the public & establishment
owners will probably never come to an understanding where the cost of
the service can be built in to the price of the food allowing a decent
wage, think about it - the price in the restaurant has not gone up
that much in the last 10 years when compared to the cost of the
materials.

"Brett Berrie" > wrote:

>I have a question on tipping etiquette:
>
>In a NY Italian restaurant
>Wine was $119
>Food was $86
>Tax was $18
>
>What would be the approriate tip for very good service?
>Typically I leave 20% for such service, however in this case, the wine was
>$119. If I include the wine, the tip increases by $24.
>
>I wound up leaving $36 - ultimately leaving a bit over 16% on the entire
>bill.
>
>Thank you for your responses.
>
>Brett
>

Wes, I don't understand what you mean by "Americanized"

Can you explain.

I thought that was on the total bill? Explain please.


"Wes" > wrote in message
...
> Hi, I'm in Atlanta.
> 15% of total here is considered a bad "tip/gratuity", the norm is
> 18-20% figured after tax.
> I'm currently in the restaurant business & do not agree with the
> "Americanized" version of tipping. Tipping (gratuity) has become more
> of a wait staff surcharge because tips are considered the rule, not
> the exception for above average service and the public & establishment
> owners will probably never come to an understanding where the cost of
> the service can be built in to the price of the food allowing a decent
> wage, think about it - the price in the restaurant has not gone up
> that much in the last 10 years when compared to the cost of the
> materials.
>
> "Brett Berrie" > wrote:
>
>>I have a question on tipping etiquette:
>>
>>In a NY Italian restaurant
>>Wine was $119
>>Food was $86
>>Tax was $18
>>
>>What would be the approriate tip for very good service?
>>Typically I leave 20% for such service, however in this case, the wine was
>>$119. If I include the wine, the tip increases by $24.
>>
>>I wound up leaving $36 - ultimately leaving a bit over 16% on the entire
>>bill.
>>
>>Thank you for your responses.
>>
>>Brett
>>
>