The whole idea of a tip being 10-15% of the total bill doesn’t seem
quite right to me. Take two equally proficient waiter/waitresses, one
working at an expensive restaurant, the other working at a neighbor
bar or café. I’ll go 15% at an expensive restaurant, but I might pay 30%
at a bar or café. People who provide good service shouldn’t be penalized
because of the price of food or wine in the establishment where they work.

Just my opinion,
Dick

"Dick R." > wrote in message
...
> The whole idea of a tip being 10-15% of the total bill doesn’t seem
> quite right to me. Take two equally proficient waiter/waitresses, one
> working at an expensive restaurant, the other working at a neighbor
> bar or café. I’ll go 15% at an expensive restaurant, but I might pay 30%
> at a bar or café. People who provide good service shouldn’t be penalized
> because of the price of food or wine in the establishment where they work.
>
> Just my opinion,
> Dick

I'll probably catch greif for wadeing back into this one... But what the
hell. Theoretically, the waiter in the fine dinning establishment has more
skills & more knowledge of food, wine ect... What got me out of cafe & pub
service & into fine dinning & eventually management, was the challenge & the
desire for more knowledge. If I went back to a slap & dash pub type
enviornment now... It would bore me to tears..... Just my opinion.

En Vino Veritas
Mathew

"Dick R." > wrote in message
...
> The whole idea of a tip being 10-15% of the total bill doesn’t seem
> quite right to me. Take two equally proficient waiter/waitresses, one
> working at an expensive restaurant, the other working at a neighbor
> bar or café. I’ll go 15% at an expensive restaurant, but I might pay 30%
> at a bar or café. People who provide good service shouldn’t be penalized
> because of the price of food or wine in the establishment where they work.
>
> Just my opinion,
> Dick

I'll probably catch greif for wadeing back into this one... But what the
hell. Theoretically, the waiter in the fine dinning establishment has more
skills & more knowledge of food, wine ect... What got me out of cafe & pub
service & into fine dinning & eventually management, was the challenge & the
desire for more knowledge. If I went back to a slap & dash pub type
enviornment now... It would bore me to tears..... Just my opinion.

En Vino Veritas
Mathew

Mathew Kagis wrote:
> "Dick R." > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>The whole idea of a tip being 10-15% of the total bill doesn’t seem
>>quite right to me. Take two equally proficient waiter/waitresses, one
>>working at an expensive restaurant, the other working at a neighbor
>>bar or café. I’ll go 15% at an expensive restaurant, but I might pay 30%
>>at a bar or café. People who provide good service shouldn’t be penalized
>>because of the price of food or wine in the establishment where they work.
>>
>>Just my opinion,
>>Dick
>
>
> I'll probably catch greif for wadeing back into this one... But what the
> hell. Theoretically, the waiter in the fine dinning establishment has more
> skills & more knowledge of food, wine ect... What got me out of cafe & pub
> service & into fine dinning & eventually management, was the challenge & the
> desire for more knowledge. If I went back to a slap & dash pub type
> enviornment now... It would bore me to tears..... Just my opinion.
>
> En Vino Veritas
> Mathew
>
Hey Mathew, I Certainly can't discount your experience. I look at it from
a consumer view, you look at it from a "been there, done that" view.
I guess I've never been to a restaurant where I've relied on the waiter/
waitress recommendation for wine (or even food, other than suggestions).
I'm not a world traveler and my experiences are limited. Thanks, very much,
for your thoughts,
Dick

Mathew Kagis wrote:
> "Dick R." > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>The whole idea of a tip being 10-15% of the total bill doesn’t seem
>>quite right to me. Take two equally proficient waiter/waitresses, one
>>working at an expensive restaurant, the other working at a neighbor
>>bar or café. I’ll go 15% at an expensive restaurant, but I might pay 30%
>>at a bar or café. People who provide good service shouldn’t be penalized
>>because of the price of food or wine in the establishment where they work.
>>
>>Just my opinion,
>>Dick
>
>
> I'll probably catch greif for wadeing back into this one... But what the
> hell. Theoretically, the waiter in the fine dinning establishment has more
> skills & more knowledge of food, wine ect... What got me out of cafe & pub
> service & into fine dinning & eventually management, was the challenge & the
> desire for more knowledge. If I went back to a slap & dash pub type
> enviornment now... It would bore me to tears..... Just my opinion.
>
> En Vino Veritas
> Mathew
>
Hey Mathew, I Certainly can't discount your experience. I look at it from
a consumer view, you look at it from a "been there, done that" view.
I guess I've never been to a restaurant where I've relied on the waiter/
waitress recommendation for wine (or even food, other than suggestions).
I'm not a world traveler and my experiences are limited. Thanks, very much,
for your thoughts,
Dick

Ok try this on for size.

Many people make a ton of money working at low end pancake houses of 15-20%
tips. Why...they turn the table 2-3x an hour.

Dining in a fine food establishment the server probably gets to turn a table
2x in 4 hours.

Think of you tip that way. Same % but different time at table.

"Dick R." > wrote in message
...
> The whole idea of a tip being 10-15% of the total bill doesn’t seem
> quite right to me. Take two equally proficient waiter/waitresses, one
> working at an expensive restaurant, the other working at a neighbor
> bar or café. I’ll go 15% at an expensive restaurant, but I might pay 30%
> at a bar or café. People who provide good service shouldn’t be penalized
> because of the price of food or wine in the establishment where they work.
>
> Just my opinion,
> Dick
>

Good point!

Richard Neidich wrote:
> Ok try this on for size.
>
> Many people make a ton of money working at low end pancake houses of 15-20%
> tips. Why...they turn the table 2-3x an hour.
>
> Dining in a fine food establishment the server probably gets to turn a table
> 2x in 4 hours.
>
> Think of you tip that way. Same % but different time at table.
>
> "Dick R." > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>The whole idea of a tip being 10-15% of the total bill doesn’t seem
>>quite right to me. Take two equally proficient waiter/waitresses, one
>>working at an expensive restaurant, the other working at a neighbor
>>bar or café. I’ll go 15% at an expensive restaurant, but I might pay 30%
>>at a bar or café. People who provide good service shouldn’t be penalized
>>because of the price of food or wine in the establishment where they work.
>>
>>Just my opinion,
>>Dick
>>
>
>
>

Yeah, but if I order a hamburger and a beer at a neighborhood bar (or
pancakes and eggs at a breakfast joint), two bucks is about all she's worth
(not even that if she's sucking on a cigarette at the end of the counter
discussing her personal problems with coworkers and sometimes even other
customers).

Whereas if I order a five-course degustation meal (with matching wines)
served by a tuxedoed waiter, seated by an awsome looking hostess in a tight
black skirt, with another hot looking babe playing a harp, a somelier who
makes a great recommendation, and a courteous young man having my car ready
at the door when I walk out (not to mention the older man in the bathroom
that's worked there longer than I've been alive asking me "How is you
evening, sir," while turning on the faucet, pumping my hand-soap, and
handing me a towel), those people are worth at least $50 for a bill of,
let's say, $250.

It's not about percentages or about subsidizing unfair wages, it's about
common sense -- paying something extra on your own to show your appreciation
for a job well done.

And while most restaurants fall between the two extremes I've just painted,
the principle is the same.

\/


"Richard Neidich" > wrote in message
link.net...
> Ok try this on for size.
>
> Many people make a ton of money working at low end pancake houses of
15-20%
> tips. Why...they turn the table 2-3x an hour.
>
> Dining in a fine food establishment the server probably gets to turn a
table
> 2x in 4 hours.
>
> Think of you tip that way. Same % but different time at table.
>
> "Dick R." > wrote in message
> ...
> > The whole idea of a tip being 10-15% of the total bill doesn’t seem
> > quite right to me. Take two equally proficient waiter/waitresses, one
> > working at an expensive restaurant, the other working at a neighbor
> > bar or café. I’ll go 15% at an expensive restaurant, but I might pay 30%

> > at a bar or café. People who provide good service shouldn’t be penalized
> > because of the price of food or wine in the establishment where they
work.
> >
> > Just my opinion,
> > Dick
> >
>
>

"Vincent" > wrote in
m:

<schnips>

> ...seated by an awsome looking hostess in a tight black skirt, with
another hot looking babe ...

Hooters has degustation menus?

Someone point me in the direction of the restaurant that has hot-looking
men wearing speedos...<koff> ahem

d;;D just in fun

"Vincent" > wrote in
m:

<schnips>

> ...seated by an awsome looking hostess in a tight black skirt, with
another hot looking babe ...

Hooters has degustation menus?

Someone point me in the direction of the restaurant that has hot-looking
men wearing speedos...<koff> ahem

d;;D just in fun

Principle is ths same...that was my point.

I like the way we tip here in USA and don't understand if it's not included
why someone would have a problem with our method.

Chiefly you have to understand the customs of the countries you visit...when
in rome do as the _ _ _ _ _.

"Vincent" > wrote in message
m...
> Yeah, but if I order a hamburger and a beer at a neighborhood bar (or
> pancakes and eggs at a breakfast joint), two bucks is about all she's
worth
> (not even that if she's sucking on a cigarette at the end of the counter
> discussing her personal problems with coworkers and sometimes even other
> customers).
>
> Whereas if I order a five-course degustation meal (with matching wines)
> served by a tuxedoed waiter, seated by an awsome looking hostess in a
tight
> black skirt, with another hot looking babe playing a harp, a somelier who
> makes a great recommendation, and a courteous young man having my car
ready
> at the door when I walk out (not to mention the older man in the bathroom
> that's worked there longer than I've been alive asking me "How is you
> evening, sir," while turning on the faucet, pumping my hand-soap, and
> handing me a towel), those people are worth at least $50 for a bill of,
> let's say, $250.
>
> It's not about percentages or about subsidizing unfair wages, it's about
> common sense -- paying something extra on your own to show your
appreciation
> for a job well done.
>
> And while most restaurants fall between the two extremes I've just
painted,
> the principle is the same.
>
> \/
>
>
> "Richard Neidich" > wrote in message
> link.net...
> > Ok try this on for size.
> >
> > Many people make a ton of money working at low end pancake houses of
> 15-20%
> > tips. Why...they turn the table 2-3x an hour.
> >
> > Dining in a fine food establishment the server probably gets to turn a
> table
> > 2x in 4 hours.
> >
> > Think of you tip that way. Same % but different time at table.
> >
> > "Dick R." > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > The whole idea of a tip being 10-15% of the total bill doesn't seem
> > > quite right to me. Take two equally proficient waiter/waitresses, one
> > > working at an expensive restaurant, the other working at a neighbor
> > > bar or café. I'll go 15% at an expensive restaurant, but I might pay
30%
>
> > > at a bar or café. People who provide good service shouldn't be
penalized
> > > because of the price of food or wine in the establishment where they
> work.
> > >
> > > Just my opinion,
> > > Dick
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Hi evoavidh,

> Hooters has degustation menus?

But they do have a pretty good (maybe not very authentic) Cuban Sandwich.
I'll order some quesadillas or chicken wings, enjoy them with a beer or 2
(and the view), and then take the Cuban Sandwich home (along with something
for the wife), followed by a Romeo (just can't have one without the other).

\/

Hi evoavidh,

> Hooters has degustation menus?

But they do have a pretty good (maybe not very authentic) Cuban Sandwich.
I'll order some quesadillas or chicken wings, enjoy them with a beer or 2
(and the view), and then take the Cuban Sandwich home (along with something
for the wife), followed by a Romeo (just can't have one without the other).

\/

Hi Richard,

> Principle is ths same...that was my point.
>
> I like the way we tip here in USA and don't understand if it's not
included
> why someone would have a problem with our method.
>
> Chiefly you have to understand the customs of the countries you
visit...when
> in rome do as the _ _ _ _ _.

Exactly. It's like we do it from the heart, not out of any sense of
obligation, yet people from countries that charge a service fee in the bill,
have a hard time accepting the concept of parting with their cash on their
own free will (this includes otherwise generous people; I'm married to one;
but after 5 years in the US, she's finally getting it).

\/

Hi Richard,

> Principle is ths same...that was my point.
>
> I like the way we tip here in USA and don't understand if it's not
included
> why someone would have a problem with our method.
>
> Chiefly you have to understand the customs of the countries you
visit...when
> in rome do as the _ _ _ _ _.

Exactly. It's like we do it from the heart, not out of any sense of
obligation, yet people from countries that charge a service fee in the bill,
have a hard time accepting the concept of parting with their cash on their
own free will (this includes otherwise generous people; I'm married to one;
but after 5 years in the US, she's finally getting it).

\/

Richard Neidich wrote:

> Ok try this on for size.
>
> Many people make a ton of money working at low end pancake houses of 15-20%
> tips. Why...they turn the table 2-3x an hour.
>
> Dining in a fine food establishment the server probably gets to turn a table
> 2x in 4 hours.
>
> Think of you tip that way. Same % but different time at table.

My thought perzackly, Dick. And this also speaks to why our system of
tipping would never work in France, f'rinstance: there, most restaurants
that I've dined at have a *single* seating per night at a table. So, a
server's tips would come from a single party -- pretty rough business.

Mark Lipton

Richard Neidich wrote:

> Ok try this on for size.
>
> Many people make a ton of money working at low end pancake houses of 15-20%
> tips. Why...they turn the table 2-3x an hour.
>
> Dining in a fine food establishment the server probably gets to turn a table
> 2x in 4 hours.
>
> Think of you tip that way. Same % but different time at table.

My thought perzackly, Dick. And this also speaks to why our system of
tipping would never work in France, f'rinstance: there, most restaurants
that I've dined at have a *single* seating per night at a table. So, a
server's tips would come from a single party -- pretty rough business.

Mark Lipton

Occasionally I can actually hit the top of the nail!!!! :-)


"Mark Lipton" > wrote in message
...
> Richard Neidich wrote:
>
> > Ok try this on for size.
> >
> > Many people make a ton of money working at low end pancake houses of
15-20%
> > tips. Why...they turn the table 2-3x an hour.
> >
> > Dining in a fine food establishment the server probably gets to turn a
table
> > 2x in 4 hours.
> >
> > Think of you tip that way. Same % but different time at table.
>
> My thought perzackly, Dick. And this also speaks to why our system of
> tipping would never work in France, f'rinstance: there, most restaurants
> that I've dined at have a *single* seating per night at a table. So, a
> server's tips would come from a single party -- pretty rough business.
>
> Mark Lipton

I agree - tipping is a cultural thing. Here in Australia
tipping is not as universal as in many other countries and
generous tipping is unusual - many people (including me)
feel it is an abomination. (If tips are given it is
generally on the inclusive bill for food and wine, not
separately).

Anti-tippers figure that if we eat out in a classy eatery
and pay top dollar for the food and often exorbitant prices
for wine that those prices should cover all overheads
including wages. We don't tip for other services (wine
merchants, greengrocers, doctors, dentists, car mechanics,
cheesemongers etc.) why should restaurants be treated any
differently? In a sense the argument that we should tip
because waitstaff are poorly paid is merely an argument to
enrich greedy restaurateurs - who should pay all staff a
decent living wage.
Cheers!
Martin


"Richard Neidich" > wrote in
message
nk.net...
> Principle is ths same...that was my point.
>
> I like the way we tip here in USA and don't understand if
it's not included
> why someone would have a problem with our method.
>
> Chiefly you have to understand the customs of the
countries you visit...when
> in rome do as the _ _ _ _ _.
>
> "Vincent" > wrote in message
> m...
> > Yeah, but if I order a hamburger and a beer at a
neighborhood bar (or
> > pancakes and eggs at a breakfast joint), two bucks is
about all she's
> worth
> > (not even that if she's sucking on a cigarette at the
end of the counter
> > discussing her personal problems with coworkers and
sometimes even other
> > customers).
> >
> > Whereas if I order a five-course degustation meal (with
matching wines)
> > served by a tuxedoed waiter, seated by an awsome looking
hostess in a
> tight
> > black skirt, with another hot looking babe playing a
harp, a somelier who
> > makes a great recommendation, and a courteous young man
having my car
> ready
> > at the door when I walk out (not to mention the older
man in the bathroom
> > that's worked there longer than I've been alive asking
me "How is you
> > evening, sir," while turning on the faucet, pumping my
hand-soap, and
> > handing me a towel), those people are worth at least $50
for a bill of,
> > let's say, $250.
> >
> > It's not about percentages or about subsidizing unfair
wages, it's about
> > common sense -- paying something extra on your own to
show your
> appreciation
> > for a job well done.
> >
> > And while most restaurants fall between the two extremes
I've just
> painted,
> > the principle is the same.
> >
> > \/
> >
> >
> > "Richard Neidich" > wrote
in message
> >
link.net...
> > > Ok try this on for size.
> > >
> > > Many people make a ton of money working at low end
pancake houses of
> > 15-20%
> > > tips. Why...they turn the table 2-3x an hour.
> > >
> > > Dining in a fine food establishment the server
probably gets to turn a
> > table
> > > 2x in 4 hours.
> > >
> > > Think of you tip that way. Same % but different time
at table.
> > >
> > > "Dick R." > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > The whole idea of a tip being 10-15% of the total
bill doesn't seem
> > > > quite right to me. Take two equally proficient
waiter/waitresses, one
> > > > working at an expensive restaurant, the other
working at a neighbor
> > > > bar or café. I'll go 15% at an expensive restaurant,
but I might pay
> 30%
> >
> > > > at a bar or café. People who provide good service
shouldn't be
> penalized
> > > > because of the price of food or wine in the
establishment where they
> > work.
> > > >
> > > > Just my opinion,
> > > > Dick
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

I agree - tipping is a cultural thing. Here in Australia
tipping is not as universal as in many other countries and
generous tipping is unusual - many people (including me)
feel it is an abomination. (If tips are given it is
generally on the inclusive bill for food and wine, not
separately).

Anti-tippers figure that if we eat out in a classy eatery
and pay top dollar for the food and often exorbitant prices
for wine that those prices should cover all overheads
including wages. We don't tip for other services (wine
merchants, greengrocers, doctors, dentists, car mechanics,
cheesemongers etc.) why should restaurants be treated any
differently? In a sense the argument that we should tip
because waitstaff are poorly paid is merely an argument to
enrich greedy restaurateurs - who should pay all staff a
decent living wage.
Cheers!
Martin


"Richard Neidich" > wrote in
message
nk.net...
> Principle is ths same...that was my point.
>
> I like the way we tip here in USA and don't understand if
it's not included
> why someone would have a problem with our method.
>
> Chiefly you have to understand the customs of the
countries you visit...when
> in rome do as the _ _ _ _ _.
>
> "Vincent" > wrote in message
> m...
> > Yeah, but if I order a hamburger and a beer at a
neighborhood bar (or
> > pancakes and eggs at a breakfast joint), two bucks is
about all she's
> worth
> > (not even that if she's sucking on a cigarette at the
end of the counter
> > discussing her personal problems with coworkers and
sometimes even other
> > customers).
> >
> > Whereas if I order a five-course degustation meal (with
matching wines)
> > served by a tuxedoed waiter, seated by an awsome looking
hostess in a
> tight
> > black skirt, with another hot looking babe playing a
harp, a somelier who
> > makes a great recommendation, and a courteous young man
having my car
> ready
> > at the door when I walk out (not to mention the older
man in the bathroom
> > that's worked there longer than I've been alive asking
me "How is you
> > evening, sir," while turning on the faucet, pumping my
hand-soap, and
> > handing me a towel), those people are worth at least $50
for a bill of,
> > let's say, $250.
> >
> > It's not about percentages or about subsidizing unfair
wages, it's about
> > common sense -- paying something extra on your own to
show your
> appreciation
> > for a job well done.
> >
> > And while most restaurants fall between the two extremes
I've just
> painted,
> > the principle is the same.
> >
> > \/
> >
> >
> > "Richard Neidich" > wrote
in message
> >
link.net...
> > > Ok try this on for size.
> > >
> > > Many people make a ton of money working at low end
pancake houses of
> > 15-20%
> > > tips. Why...they turn the table 2-3x an hour.
> > >
> > > Dining in a fine food establishment the server
probably gets to turn a
> > table
> > > 2x in 4 hours.
> > >
> > > Think of you tip that way. Same % but different time
at table.
> > >
> > > "Dick R." > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > The whole idea of a tip being 10-15% of the total
bill doesn't seem
> > > > quite right to me. Take two equally proficient
waiter/waitresses, one
> > > > working at an expensive restaurant, the other
working at a neighbor
> > > > bar or café. I'll go 15% at an expensive restaurant,
but I might pay
> 30%
> >
> > > > at a bar or café. People who provide good service
shouldn't be
> penalized
> > > > because of the price of food or wine in the
establishment where they
> > work.
> > > >
> > > > Just my opinion,
> > > > Dick
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

But if you were another country and it was not included and you knew that
their was a tipping standart wouldn't that be different?

I know when I was in France and the service was included I only left pocket
change.

When in Rome, do as the Romans do. I think that is how it goes anyway.

There is no right or wrong on this issue.. Its strictly cultural and as long
as you know what the rule and game is its ok.



"Martin Field" > wrote in message
...
> I agree - tipping is a cultural thing. Here in Australia
> tipping is not as universal as in many other countries and
> generous tipping is unusual - many people (including me)
> feel it is an abomination. (If tips are given it is
> generally on the inclusive bill for food and wine, not
> separately).
>
> Anti-tippers figure that if we eat out in a classy eatery
> and pay top dollar for the food and often exorbitant prices
> for wine that those prices should cover all overheads
> including wages. We don't tip for other services (wine
> merchants, greengrocers, doctors, dentists, car mechanics,
> cheesemongers etc.) why should restaurants be treated any
> differently? In a sense the argument that we should tip
> because waitstaff are poorly paid is merely an argument to
> enrich greedy restaurateurs - who should pay all staff a
> decent living wage.
> Cheers!
> Martin
>
>
> "Richard Neidich" > wrote in
> message
> nk.net...
> > Principle is ths same...that was my point.
> >
> > I like the way we tip here in USA and don't understand if
> it's not included
> > why someone would have a problem with our method.
> >
> > Chiefly you have to understand the customs of the
> countries you visit...when
> > in rome do as the _ _ _ _ _.
> >
> > "Vincent" > wrote in message
> > m...
> > > Yeah, but if I order a hamburger and a beer at a
> neighborhood bar (or
> > > pancakes and eggs at a breakfast joint), two bucks is
> about all she's
> > worth
> > > (not even that if she's sucking on a cigarette at the
> end of the counter
> > > discussing her personal problems with coworkers and
> sometimes even other
> > > customers).
> > >
> > > Whereas if I order a five-course degustation meal (with
> matching wines)
> > > served by a tuxedoed waiter, seated by an awsome looking
> hostess in a
> > tight
> > > black skirt, with another hot looking babe playing a
> harp, a somelier who
> > > makes a great recommendation, and a courteous young man
> having my car
> > ready
> > > at the door when I walk out (not to mention the older
> man in the bathroom
> > > that's worked there longer than I've been alive asking
> me "How is you
> > > evening, sir," while turning on the faucet, pumping my
> hand-soap, and
> > > handing me a towel), those people are worth at least $50
> for a bill of,
> > > let's say, $250.
> > >
> > > It's not about percentages or about subsidizing unfair
> wages, it's about
> > > common sense -- paying something extra on your own to
> show your
> > appreciation
> > > for a job well done.
> > >
> > > And while most restaurants fall between the two extremes
> I've just
> > painted,
> > > the principle is the same.
> > >
> > > \/
> > >
> > >
> > > "Richard Neidich" > wrote
> in message
> > >
> link.net...
> > > > Ok try this on for size.
> > > >
> > > > Many people make a ton of money working at low end
> pancake houses of
> > > 15-20%
> > > > tips. Why...they turn the table 2-3x an hour.
> > > >
> > > > Dining in a fine food establishment the server
> probably gets to turn a
> > > table
> > > > 2x in 4 hours.
> > > >
> > > > Think of you tip that way. Same % but different time
> at table.
> > > >
> > > > "Dick R." > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > > The whole idea of a tip being 10-15% of the total
> bill doesn't seem
> > > > > quite right to me. Take two equally proficient
> waiter/waitresses, one
> > > > > working at an expensive restaurant, the other
> working at a neighbor
> > > > > bar or café. I'll go 15% at an expensive restaurant,
> but I might pay
> > 30%
> > >
> > > > > at a bar or café. People who provide good service
> shouldn't be
> > penalized
> > > > > because of the price of food or wine in the
> establishment where they
> > > work.
> > > > >
> > > > > Just my opinion,
> > > > > Dick
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

But if you were another country and it was not included and you knew that
their was a tipping standart wouldn't that be different?

I know when I was in France and the service was included I only left pocket
change.

When in Rome, do as the Romans do. I think that is how it goes anyway.

There is no right or wrong on this issue.. Its strictly cultural and as long
as you know what the rule and game is its ok.



"Martin Field" > wrote in message
...
> I agree - tipping is a cultural thing. Here in Australia
> tipping is not as universal as in many other countries and
> generous tipping is unusual - many people (including me)
> feel it is an abomination. (If tips are given it is
> generally on the inclusive bill for food and wine, not
> separately).
>
> Anti-tippers figure that if we eat out in a classy eatery
> and pay top dollar for the food and often exorbitant prices
> for wine that those prices should cover all overheads
> including wages. We don't tip for other services (wine
> merchants, greengrocers, doctors, dentists, car mechanics,
> cheesemongers etc.) why should restaurants be treated any
> differently? In a sense the argument that we should tip
> because waitstaff are poorly paid is merely an argument to
> enrich greedy restaurateurs - who should pay all staff a
> decent living wage.
> Cheers!
> Martin
>
>
> "Richard Neidich" > wrote in
> message
> nk.net...
> > Principle is ths same...that was my point.
> >
> > I like the way we tip here in USA and don't understand if
> it's not included
> > why someone would have a problem with our method.
> >
> > Chiefly you have to understand the customs of the
> countries you visit...when
> > in rome do as the _ _ _ _ _.
> >
> > "Vincent" > wrote in message
> > m...
> > > Yeah, but if I order a hamburger and a beer at a
> neighborhood bar (or
> > > pancakes and eggs at a breakfast joint), two bucks is
> about all she's
> > worth
> > > (not even that if she's sucking on a cigarette at the
> end of the counter
> > > discussing her personal problems with coworkers and
> sometimes even other
> > > customers).
> > >
> > > Whereas if I order a five-course degustation meal (with
> matching wines)
> > > served by a tuxedoed waiter, seated by an awsome looking
> hostess in a
> > tight
> > > black skirt, with another hot looking babe playing a
> harp, a somelier who
> > > makes a great recommendation, and a courteous young man
> having my car
> > ready
> > > at the door when I walk out (not to mention the older
> man in the bathroom
> > > that's worked there longer than I've been alive asking
> me "How is you
> > > evening, sir," while turning on the faucet, pumping my
> hand-soap, and
> > > handing me a towel), those people are worth at least $50
> for a bill of,
> > > let's say, $250.
> > >
> > > It's not about percentages or about subsidizing unfair
> wages, it's about
> > > common sense -- paying something extra on your own to
> show your
> > appreciation
> > > for a job well done.
> > >
> > > And while most restaurants fall between the two extremes
> I've just
> > painted,
> > > the principle is the same.
> > >
> > > \/
> > >
> > >
> > > "Richard Neidich" > wrote
> in message
> > >
> link.net...
> > > > Ok try this on for size.
> > > >
> > > > Many people make a ton of money working at low end
> pancake houses of
> > > 15-20%
> > > > tips. Why...they turn the table 2-3x an hour.
> > > >
> > > > Dining in a fine food establishment the server
> probably gets to turn a
> > > table
> > > > 2x in 4 hours.
> > > >
> > > > Think of you tip that way. Same % but different time
> at table.
> > > >
> > > > "Dick R." > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > > The whole idea of a tip being 10-15% of the total
> bill doesn't seem
> > > > > quite right to me. Take two equally proficient
> waiter/waitresses, one
> > > > > working at an expensive restaurant, the other
> working at a neighbor
> > > > > bar or café. I'll go 15% at an expensive restaurant,
> but I might pay
> > 30%
> > >
> > > > > at a bar or café. People who provide good service
> shouldn't be
> > penalized
> > > > > because of the price of food or wine in the
> establishment where they
> > > work.
> > > > >
> > > > > Just my opinion,
> > > > > Dick
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>