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  #1 (permalink)   Report Post  
jmcquown
 
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Kathy wrote:
> A new twist on a well-worn subject - Senator Rick Santorum proposes to
> remove all state requirements for a minimum wage for jobs in which
> employees can expect tips. Restaurant owners could then "hire"
> serving staff for nothing but the tips they hope to make. More info
> on his bill he
> http://www.nathannewman.org/laborblo...e/002263.shtml . If
> you're not fond of the American custom of tipping, perhaps you'll let
> him know your opinion on this idea.


Unless something has changed (quite possible), restaurant owners already
don't have to pay minimum wage to tipped employees. I never earned minimum
wage when I worked as a server; the tips were expected (ha!) to make up the
difference and then taxed based on my daily food sales figures regardless of
whether I made that much in tips or not. The only time I made more than
minimum wage in a restaurant setting was when I was working as a hostess and
also handled the computer accounting stuff in the back of the house.

Jill


  #2 (permalink)   Report Post  
Kathy
 
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Default Tipping in the US

A new twist on a well-worn subject - Senator Rick Santorum proposes to
remove all state requirements for a minimum wage for jobs in which employees
can expect tips. Restaurant owners could then "hire" serving staff for
nothing but the tips they hope to make. More info on his bill he
http://www.nathannewman.org/laborblo...e/002263.shtml . If you're not
fond of the American custom of tipping, perhaps you'll let him know your
opinion on this idea.

His office:

Washington, D.C. Office:
511 Dirksen Senate Office Building
Washington, DC 20510
Main: 202-224-6324



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Dimitri
 
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"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...
> Kathy wrote:
>> A new twist on a well-worn subject - Senator Rick Santorum proposes to
>> remove all state requirements for a minimum wage for jobs in which
>> employees can expect tips. Restaurant owners could then "hire"
>> serving staff for nothing but the tips they hope to make. More info
>> on his bill he
>> http://www.nathannewman.org/laborblo...e/002263.shtml . If
>> you're not fond of the American custom of tipping, perhaps you'll let
>> him know your opinion on this idea.

>
> Unless something has changed (quite possible), restaurant owners already
> don't have to pay minimum wage to tipped employees. I never earned
> minimum
> wage when I worked as a server; the tips were expected (ha!) to make up
> the
> difference and then taxed based on my daily food sales figures regardless
> of
> whether I made that much in tips or not. The only time I made more than
> minimum wage in a restaurant setting was when I was working as a hostess
> and
> also handled the computer accounting stuff in the back of the house.
>
> Jill


See below:


http://www.restaurant.org/legal/law_minwage.cfm

Restaurants covered by federal minimum wage law (a.k.a. the Fair Labor
Standards Act, or FLSA) are required to pay hourly employees at least $5.15
an hour, and tipped employees a cash wage of at least $2.13 an hour.
You may be required to pay a rate higher than that, though. States are free
to set their own wage rates - and when they do, employers who are covered by
the FLSA must pay whichever rate, state or federal, is most favorable to the
employee.

*********************



One of the difficulties is the "tipped" employees usually "hide" some income
from the government for which the do not pay taxes. At the Palm in Calif.
the Mercedes in the parking lot belong to the waiters not the patrons. LOL.

Dimitri












  #4 (permalink)   Report Post  
Priscilla Ballou
 
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In article >,
"Kathy" > wrote:

> A new twist on a well-worn subject - Senator Rick Santorum proposes to
> remove all state requirements for a minimum wage for jobs in which employees
> can expect tips. Restaurant owners could then "hire" serving staff for
> nothing but the tips they hope to make. More info on his bill he
> http://www.nathannewman.org/laborblo...e/002263.shtml . If you're not
> fond of the American custom of tipping, perhaps you'll let him know your
> opinion on this idea.
>
> His office:
>
> Washington, D.C. Office:
> 511 Dirksen Senate Office Building
> Washington, DC 20510
> Main: 202-224-6324


Oh, that is so typical. Santorum is a total bozo.

Priscilla
--
"You can't welcome someone into a body of Christ and then say only
certain rooms are open." -- dancertm in alt.religion.christian.episcopal
  #5 (permalink)   Report Post  
jmcquown
 
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Dimitri wrote:
> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Kathy wrote:
>>> A new twist on a well-worn subject - Senator Rick Santorum proposes
>>> to remove all state requirements for a minimum wage for jobs in
>>> which employees can expect tips. Restaurant owners could then "hire"
>>> serving staff for nothing but the tips they hope to make. More info
>>> on his bill he
>>> http://www.nathannewman.org/laborblo...e/002263.shtml . If
>>> you're not fond of the American custom of tipping, perhaps you'll
>>> let him know your opinion on this idea.

>>
>> Unless something has changed (quite possible), restaurant owners
>> already don't have to pay minimum wage to tipped employees. I never
>> earned minimum
>> wage when I worked as a server; the tips were expected (ha!) to make
>> up the
>> difference and then taxed based on my daily food sales figures
>> regardless of
>> whether I made that much in tips or not. The only time I made more
>> than minimum wage in a restaurant setting was when I was working as
>> a hostess and
>> also handled the computer accounting stuff in the back of the house.
>>
>> Jill

>
> See below:
>
>
> http://www.restaurant.org/legal/law_minwage.cfm
>
> Restaurants covered by federal minimum wage law (a.k.a. the Fair Labor
> Standards Act, or FLSA) are required to pay hourly employees at least
> $5.15 an hour, and tipped employees a cash wage of at least $2.13 an
> hour.
> You may be required to pay a rate higher than that, though. States
> are free to set their own wage rates - and when they do, employers
> who are covered by the FLSA must pay whichever rate, state or
> federal, is most favorable to the employee.
>
> *********************
>
>
>
> One of the difficulties is the "tipped" employees usually "hide" some
> income from the government for which the do not pay taxes. At the
> Palm in Calif. the Mercedes in the parking lot belong to the waiters
> not the patrons. LOL.
>
> Dimitri


Good lord it's still $2.13 an hour?! And I haven't waited a table since the
1980's! But with the IRS provision that tips be based on sales, no way can
a server get out of reporting tips even if they didn't earn the 20% of sales
in a shift. I used to do that accounting for the restaurant, too. Also
divvied out tip-shares for the bussers, hostesses and bar-backs.

Jill




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Priscilla Ballou
 
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In article >,
"Dimitri" > wrote:

> One of the difficulties is the "tipped" employees usually "hide" some income
> from the government for which the do not pay taxes. At the Palm in Calif.
> the Mercedes in the parking lot belong to the waiters not the patrons. LOL.


Uh huh. I'll bet they're parked next to the lavish vehicles driven by
"welfare queens." Yeah, right. Make sure they're not dented by passing
unicorns.

Priscilla
--
"You can't welcome someone into a body of Christ and then say only
certain rooms are open." -- dancertm in alt.religion.christian.episcopal
  #7 (permalink)   Report Post  
Peter Aitken
 
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Default

"Priscilla Ballou" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Kathy" > wrote:
>
>> A new twist on a well-worn subject - Senator Rick Santorum proposes to
>> remove all state requirements for a minimum wage for jobs in which
>> employees
>> can expect tips. Restaurant owners could then "hire" serving staff for
>> nothing but the tips they hope to make. More info on his bill he
>> http://www.nathannewman.org/laborblo...e/002263.shtml . If you're
>> not
>> fond of the American custom of tipping, perhaps you'll let him know your
>> opinion on this idea.
>>
>> His office:
>>
>> Washington, D.C. Office:
>> 511 Dirksen Senate Office Building
>> Washington, DC 20510
>> Main: 202-224-6324

>
> Oh, that is so typical. Santorum is a total bozo.
>
> Priscilla


Isn't he though? Bozo is too kind IMO. He's not alone, though.


--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.


  #8 (permalink)   Report Post  
Sheldon
 
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Kathy wrote:
> A new twist on a well-worn subject - Senator Rick Santorum proposes

to
> remove all state requirements for a minimum wage for jobs in which

employees
> can expect tips. Restaurant owners could then "hire" serving staff

for
> nothing but the tips they hope to make.


Huh? Employers are not required to pay waitstaff minimum wage now.
Many restaurants pay no wage at all yet highly experienced wait people
line up at the door for those jobs... a good wait person in many four
star restaurants can easly earn six figures just from tips... a good
drink server in Vegas can easly do better than many CEOs, and I mean
from legitimate tips, not on their knees.

  #9 (permalink)   Report Post  
aem
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Sheldon wrote:
[snip preceding]
> Huh? Employers are not required to pay waitstaff minimum wage now.
> Many restaurants pay no wage at all yet highly experienced wait
> people line up at the door for those jobs...


Yes, it would be nice if industry practices rewarded those highly
experienced people enough so they wouldn't have to line up for another
job.

> a good wait person in many four
> star restaurants can easily earn six figures just from tips...


Yes, but there are only 1 or 2 four star restaurants in Los Angeles, a
county of more than 10 million people and thousands of eating places.

> a good drink server in Vegas can easly do better than many CEOs,
> and I mean from legitimate tips, not on their knees.


Yes, many small businesses fail and their CEOs make no money -- oh no,
that's not you meant -- well, in the casinos in Vegas and many of the
clubs, drink servers pool their tips so the good servers make no more
than the bad servers, and it certainly isn't as much as you seem to
think it is.

The less than minimum wage + tips system results in good compensation
for a few very skillful servers at high-priced eating and drinking
places. The trouble with stingy federal legislation is that it applies
to the vast majority who do not do so well. 99% or so of new
restaurant ventures fail in less than a year, but it's not because
paying $2.13/hour tipped them into red ink.

-aem

  #10 (permalink)   Report Post  
Ruddell
 
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Default

In > Peter Aitken wrote:
> "Priscilla Ballou" > wrote in message
> ...
>> In article >,
>> "Kathy" > wrote:
>>
>>> A new twist on a well-worn subject - Senator Rick Santorum proposes
>>> to remove all state requirements for a minimum wage for jobs in
>>> which employees can expect tips. Restaurant owners could then
>>> "hire" serving staff for nothing but the tips they hope to make.
>>> More info on his bill he http://www.nathannewman.org/laborblog/
>>> archive/002263.shtml . If you're not fond of the American custom
>>> of tipping, perhaps you'll let him know your opinion on this idea.
>>>
>>> His office:
>>>
>>> Washington, D.C. Office:
>>> 511 Dirksen Senate Office Building
>>> Washington, DC 20510
>>> Main: 202-224-6324

>>
>> Oh, that is so typical. Santorum is a total bozo.
>>
>> Priscilla

>
> Isn't he though? Bozo is too kind IMO. He's not alone, though.


I today's world many people don't know who Bozo is rather than whether
he's kind or not...<sigh>


--
Cheers

Dennis

Remove 'Elle-Kabong' to reply


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Puester
 
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Default

Kathy wrote:
> A new twist on a well-worn subject - Senator Rick Santorum proposes to
> remove all state requirements for a minimum wage for jobs in which employees
> can expect tips. Restaurant owners could then "hire" serving staff for
> nothing but the tips they hope to make. More info on his bill he
> http://www.nathannewman.org/laborblo...e/002263.shtml . If you're not
> fond of the American custom of tipping, perhaps you'll let him know your
> opinion on this idea.
>
> His office:
>
> Washington, D.C. Office:
> 511 Dirksen Senate Office Building
> Washington, DC 20510
> Main: 202-224-6324
>
>
>



It figures that this comes from Santorum.
Do ya think he's angling for Sec. of Labor
in W's cabinet? Bozo.

gloria p
  #12 (permalink)   Report Post  
Sheldon
 
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aem wrote:
> Sheldon wrote:
> [snip preceding]
> > Huh? Employers are not required to pay waitstaff minimum wage now.
> > Many restaurants pay no wage at all yet highly experienced wait
> > people line up at the door for those jobs...

>
> Yes, it would be nice if industry practices rewarded those highly
> experienced people enough so they wouldn't have to line up for

another
> job.
>
> > a good wait person in many four
> > star restaurants can easily earn six figures just from tips...

>
> Yes, but there are only 1 or 2 four star restaurants in Los Angeles,

a
> county of more than 10 million people and thousands of eating places.
>
> > a good drink server in Vegas can easly do better than many CEOs,
> > and I mean from legitimate tips, not on their knees.

>
> Yes, many small businesses fail and their CEOs make no money -- oh

no,
> that's not you meant -- well, in the casinos in Vegas and many of the
> clubs, drink servers pool their tips so the good servers make no more
> than the bad servers, and it certainly isn't as much as you seem to
> think it is.
>
> The less than minimum wage + tips system results in good compensation
> for a few very skillful servers at high-priced eating and drinking
> places. The trouble with stingy federal legislation is that it

applies
> to the vast majority who do not do so well. 99% or so of new
> restaurant ventures fail in less than a year, but it's not because
> paying $2.13/hour tipped them into red ink.
>
> -aem


Nothing you claim is true. Wait people don't share their tips with
other wait people, they often share a small percentage with the
bussers... you must be posting from North Korea.

And wait staff definitely does make good bucks, unless they're
incompetent, and then they're canned their first day on the job anyway.
I don't know where you live but the waitstaff at an average (so-so)
NYC restaurant often takes home more than the cooks, often a lot more.

I lived in LA during the 1960s, and yes, Angelenos gotta be the
cheapest tippers on the planet. However, I had a good friend who
during the warm months worked valet parking at Harrahs, Lake Tahoe...
even back then he netted better than a Grand a week in tips... just
jockying cars. Those willing to hustle their butts and have a pleasant
disposition can make a very good living just from tips.... but a lot
depends on location... I'm probably the only one in this hillybilly
burg who tips my barber $5 for a $12 haircut... but in NYC a haircut
can easily cost $30+ and for a $5 tip they'd spit on you. You must
live in some cave in North Dakota.

  #13 (permalink)   Report Post  
Gregory Morrow
 
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Priscilla Ballou wrote:

> In article >,
> "Dimitri" > wrote:
>
> > One of the difficulties is the "tipped" employees usually "hide" some

income
> > from the government for which the do not pay taxes. At the Palm in

Calif.
> > the Mercedes in the parking lot belong to the waiters not the patrons.

LOL.
>
> Uh huh. I'll bet they're parked next to the lavish vehicles driven by
> "welfare queens." Yeah, right. Make sure they're not dented by passing
> unicorns.



Lol...thanx fer my first Usenet "chuckle" 'o the day...

--
Best
Greg



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Gregory Morrow
 
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jmcquown wrote:

> Good lord it's still $2.13 an hour?! And I haven't waited a table since

the
> 1980's! >



IIRC that is what some bartenders make here in Chicawgo...the rest of their
income is tips.

Some barkeeps I know make close to six figures (this is at bars, not bar -
restos)...but man ya gotta have a good regular customer base and/or ya
really gotta hustle...

--
Best
Greg


  #15 (permalink)   Report Post  
Gregory Morrow
 
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Ruddell wrote:

> In > Peter Aitken wrote:
> > "Priscilla Ballou" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> In article >,
> >> "Kathy" > wrote:
> >>
> >>> A new twist on a well-worn subject - Senator Rick Santorum proposes
> >>> to remove all state requirements for a minimum wage for jobs in
> >>> which employees can expect tips. Restaurant owners could then
> >>> "hire" serving staff for nothing but the tips they hope to make.
> >>> More info on his bill he http://www.nathannewman.org/laborblog/
> >>> archive/002263.shtml . If you're not fond of the American custom
> >>> of tipping, perhaps you'll let him know your opinion on this idea.
> >>>
> >>> His office:
> >>>
> >>> Washington, D.C. Office:
> >>> 511 Dirksen Senate Office Building
> >>> Washington, DC 20510
> >>> Main: 202-224-6324
> >>
> >> Oh, that is so typical. Santorum is a total bozo.
> >>
> >> Priscilla

> >
> > Isn't he though? Bozo is too kind IMO. He's not alone, though.

>
> I today's world many people don't know who Bozo is rather than whether
> he's kind or not...<sigh>



For those who don't know who Bozo is I think the term "puke" describes
Santorum pretty well...

--
Best
Greg




  #16 (permalink)   Report Post  
aem
 
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Sheldon wrote:
>
> Nothing you claim is true.


Aren't you the one who rips others for not backing up their assertions
with facts and references? My post, like your opinions, is based on my
experiences and what I've learned from people in these businesses.
What makes your experiences universal and mine not?

> Wait people don't share their tips with
> other wait people, they often share a small percentage with the
> bussers... you must be posting from North Korea.


No, I have friends who worked as servers in Las Vegas and in South Lake
Tahoe and they told me they pooled their tips in the casinos, just as
the dealers did. Other friends who have worked as servers in
restaurants have said they share their tips with the bussers.
>
> And wait staff definitely does make good bucks,


Again, some can and do, but I know of no nationwide statistics that
rank wait staff, on average, high on any income comparisons. Do you?
It's the whole range of income levels that are impacted by this kind of
legislation, and that's the problem with simply pointing to the few who
do well.

> [snips]
> You must live in some cave in North Dakota.


Well, North Korea, North Dakota, Southeastern Alaska, Southern
California, Boston, NYC--wherever there's an internet connection will
do.

-aem

  #17 (permalink)   Report Post  
Gregory Morrow
 
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Sheldon wrote:

> Huh? Employers are not required to pay waitstaff minimum wage now.
> Many restaurants pay no wage at all yet highly experienced wait people
> line up at the door for those jobs... a good wait person in many four
> star restaurants can easly earn six figures just from tips... a good
> drink server in Vegas can easly do better than many CEOs, and I mean
> from legitimate tips, not on their knees.



True. I know bartenders that quit professional jobs (attorneys, CPA's,
actuaries, etc.) to tend bar...some have invested wisely, they have bought
shares in a bar, retired early, etc....

A guy I know is a waiter at the Four Seasons, he makes well over 100K...he
has a lucrative dog - walking bizness on the side, too. He lives better
than pretty much anyone I know...


--
Best
Greg


  #18 (permalink)   Report Post  
jmcquown
 
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Priscilla Ballou wrote:
> In article >,
> "Dimitri" > wrote:
>
>> One of the difficulties is the "tipped" employees usually "hide"
>> some income from the government for which the do not pay taxes. At
>> the Palm in Calif. the Mercedes in the parking lot belong to the
>> waiters not the patrons. LOL.

>
> Uh huh. I'll bet they're parked next to the lavish vehicles driven by
> "welfare queens." Yeah, right. Make sure they're not dented by
> passing unicorns.
>
> Priscilla


Those damned unicorns! I keep telling them to stay away from the Mercedes
(and the Jag) but do they listen? Hell no!

Jill


  #19 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dimitri
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Priscilla Ballou" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Dimitri" > wrote:
>
>> One of the difficulties is the "tipped" employees usually "hide" some
>> income
>> from the government for which the do not pay taxes. At the Palm in
>> Calif.
>> the Mercedes in the parking lot belong to the waiters not the patrons.
>> LOL.

>
> Uh huh. I'll bet they're parked next to the lavish vehicles driven by
> "welfare queens." Yeah, right. Make sure they're not dented by passing
> unicorns.
>
> Priscilla


The Palm
Usual $100.00 per person @ 15% tip or a 4 person table that's $60.00 per
table per check.
At 6 tables per waiter that is 360.00 per table per night times 3 turns per
night that's $1080. per night
At 5 nights (Ok call it 4 nights) that's $4,320.00 per week
Which translates to $216,000.00 per year.

Call me 1/2 right that's over 100,000 per year.

The problem came when the Palm started taking credit cards. Until then the
waiters could sandbag 1/2 their income as untaxable because it couldn't be
traced directly.

:-)

Dimitri


  #20 (permalink)   Report Post  
Priscilla Ballou
 
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In article et>,
"Gregory Morrow"
<gregorymorrowEMERGENCYCANCELLATIONARCHIMEDES@eart hlink.net> wrote:

> Priscilla Ballou wrote:
> > Uh huh. I'll bet they're parked next to the lavish vehicles driven by
> > "welfare queens." Yeah, right. Make sure they're not dented by passing
> > unicorns.

>
> Lol...thanx fer my first Usenet "chuckle" 'o the day...


My pleasure! :-)

Priscilla
--
"You can't welcome someone into a body of Christ and then say only
certain rooms are open." -- dancertm in alt.religion.christian.episcopal


  #21 (permalink)   Report Post  
skoonj
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Gregory Morrow"
<gregorymorrowEMERGENCYCANCELLATIONARCHIMEDES@eart hlink.net> wrote in
message ink.net...
>
> Ruddell wrote:
>
>> In > Peter Aitken wrote:
>> > "Priscilla Ballou" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >> In article >,
>> >> "Kathy" > wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> A new twist on a well-worn subject - Senator Rick Santorum proposes
>> >>> to remove all state requirements for a minimum wage for jobs in
>> >>> which employees can expect tips. Restaurant owners could then
>> >>> "hire" serving staff for nothing but the tips they hope to make.
>> >>> More info on his bill he http://www.nathannewman.org/laborblog/
>> >>> archive/002263.shtml . If you're not fond of the American custom
>> >>> of tipping, perhaps you'll let him know your opinion on this idea.
>> >>>
>> >>> His office:
>> >>>
>> >>> Washington, D.C. Office:
>> >>> 511 Dirksen Senate Office Building
>> >>> Washington, DC 20510
>> >>> Main: 202-224-6324
>> >>
>> >> Oh, that is so typical. Santorum is a total bozo.
>> >>
>> >> Priscilla
>> >
>> > Isn't he though? Bozo is too kind IMO. He's not alone, though.

>>
>> I today's world many people don't know who Bozo is rather than whether
>> he's kind or not...<sigh>

>
>
> For those who don't know who Bozo is I think the term "puke" describes
> Santorum pretty well...
>
> --
> Best
> Greg



"Santorum? Isn't that Latin for asshole?"
-Sen. Bob Kerrey

-T


  #22 (permalink)   Report Post  
Bob (this one)
 
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Sheldon wrote:

> Kathy wrote:
>
>>A new twist on a well-worn subject - Senator Rick Santorum proposes to
>>remove all state requirements for a minimum wage for jobs in which employees
>>can expect tips. Restaurant owners could then "hire" serving staff for
>>nothing but the tips they hope to make.

>
> Huh? Employers are not required to pay waitstaff minimum wage now.


They're required to pay a minimum fixed amount which varies from state
to state. The assumption being that tips will make up the difference.

> Many restaurants pay no wage at all


And if they do that, they're in violation of the law in every state in
the US.

> yet highly experienced wait people
> line up at the door for those jobs...


Sure. And then they file a class action suit like happened in NYC and
California and they beat the owners and got back pay with penalties.

Pastorio

  #23 (permalink)   Report Post  
Bob (this one)
 
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Sheldon wrote:

> aem wrote:
>
>>Sheldon wrote:
>> [snip preceding]
>>
>>>Huh? Employers are not required to pay waitstaff minimum wage now.
>>>Many restaurants pay no wage at all yet highly experienced wait
>>>people line up at the door for those jobs...

>>
>>Yes, it would be nice if industry practices rewarded those highly
>>experienced people enough so they wouldn't have to line up for another
>>job.
>>
>>
>>>a good wait person in many four
>>>star restaurants can easily earn six figures just from tips...

>>
>>Yes, but there are only 1 or 2 four star restaurants in Los Angeles, a
>>county of more than 10 million people and thousands of eating places.
>>
>>>a good drink server in Vegas can easly do better than many CEOs,
>>>and I mean from legitimate tips, not on their knees.

>>
>>Yes, many small businesses fail and their CEOs make no money -- oh no,
>>that's not you meant -- well, in the casinos in Vegas and many of the
>>clubs, drink servers pool their tips so the good servers make no more
>>than the bad servers, and it certainly isn't as much as you seem to
>>think it is.
>>
>>The less than minimum wage + tips system results in good compensation
>>for a few very skillful servers at high-priced eating and drinking
>>places. The trouble with stingy federal legislation is that it applies
>>to the vast majority who do not do so well. 99% or so of new
>>restaurant ventures fail in less than a year, but it's not because
>>paying $2.13/hour tipped them into red ink.


It's not 99% or very near it, but, yes, the attrition rate in
foodservice is horrifying.

> Nothing you claim is true.


Bwah... LIke Sheldon would know sitting up there on his farm what goes
on in the real world...

> Wait people don't share their tips with
> other wait people, they often share a small percentage with the
> bussers... you must be posting from North Korea.


Sheldon, tip pooling is *common* in foodservice. How about if you make
an effort to post about what you know? Oh, wait... it's Sheldon.

You've never been in the restaurant business and it's stunningly
obvious. Yet you pontificate as though you had even the remotest clue.

> And wait staff definitely does make good bucks, unless they're
> incompetent, and then they're canned their first day on the job anyway.
> I don't know where you live but the waitstaff at an average (so-so)
> NYC restaurant often takes home more than the cooks, often a lot more.


Waitstaff money is predicated on what kind of place it is, how
prosperous it is, how good they are and a lot of other variables. As
for who makes the most money in restaurants, often the best of the
servers will make more than the average cook, but it's by no means the
standard.

Here comes the nice lady with pills for you...

Idiot.

Pastorio

  #24 (permalink)   Report Post  
Stan Horwitz
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article .com>,
"Sheldon" > wrote:

> Kathy wrote:
> > A new twist on a well-worn subject - Senator Rick Santorum proposes

> to
> > remove all state requirements for a minimum wage for jobs in which

> employees
> > can expect tips. Restaurant owners could then "hire" serving staff

> for
> > nothing but the tips they hope to make.

>
> Huh? Employers are not required to pay waitstaff minimum wage now.
> Many restaurants pay no wage at all yet highly experienced wait people
> line up at the door for those jobs... a good wait person in many four
> star restaurants can easly earn six figures just from tips... a good
> drink server in Vegas can easly do better than many CEOs, and I mean
> from legitimate tips, not on their knees.


How many four star restaurants do you think there are? They are few and
far between. Most restaurants are the greasy spoon mom and pop type.

Santorum is a world class idiot. Speaking as a born and raised
Pennsylvanian, I am shamed that enough people in PA vote for this
idiot that he can retain political office in Washington.
  #25 (permalink)   Report Post  
Saerah
 
Posts: n/a
Default


skoonj wrote in message ...
>
>"Gregory Morrow"
><gregorymorrowEMERGENCYCANCELLATIONARCHIMEDES@ear thlink.net> wrote in
>message ink.net...
>>
>> Ruddell wrote:
>>
>>> In > Peter Aitken wrote:
>>> > "Priscilla Ballou" > wrote in message
>>> > ...
>>> >> In article >,
>>> >> "Kathy" > wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> A new twist on a well-worn subject - Senator Rick Santorum proposes
>>> >>> to remove all state requirements for a minimum wage for jobs in
>>> >>> which employees can expect tips. Restaurant owners could then
>>> >>> "hire" serving staff for nothing but the tips they hope to make.
>>> >>> More info on his bill he http://www.nathannewman.org/laborblog/
>>> >>> archive/002263.shtml . If you're not fond of the American custom
>>> >>> of tipping, perhaps you'll let him know your opinion on this idea.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> His office:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Washington, D.C. Office:
>>> >>> 511 Dirksen Senate Office Building
>>> >>> Washington, DC 20510
>>> >>> Main: 202-224-6324
>>> >>
>>> >> Oh, that is so typical. Santorum is a total bozo.
>>> >>
>>> >> Priscilla
>>> >
>>> > Isn't he though? Bozo is too kind IMO. He's not alone, though.
>>>
>>> I today's world many people don't know who Bozo is rather than whether
>>> he's kind or not...<sigh>

>>
>>
>> For those who don't know who Bozo is I think the term "puke" describes
>> Santorum pretty well...
>>
>> --
>> Best
>> Greg

>
>
>"Santorum? Isn't that Latin for asshole?"
> -Sen. Bob Kerrey


hmmm. more like a substance that might be present *in* an asshole (but maybe
only if you read 'savage love')



--
saerah

TANSTAAFL

CrzyBitch (3:25:06 AM): I'm a secret agent, and a princess




  #26 (permalink)   Report Post  
biig
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Also, don't some people have to "buy" their jobs. Years ago there
was a documentary that told of Matre d's in Vegas who paid up to 50,000.
for the position.....Sharon

aem wrote:
>
> Sheldon wrote:
> [snip preceding]
> > Huh? Employers are not required to pay waitstaff minimum wage now.
> > Many restaurants pay no wage at all yet highly experienced wait
> > people line up at the door for those jobs...

>
> Yes, it would be nice if industry practices rewarded those highly
> experienced people enough so they wouldn't have to line up for another
> job.
>
> > a good wait person in many four
> > star restaurants can easily earn six figures just from tips...

>
> Yes, but there are only 1 or 2 four star restaurants in Los Angeles, a
> county of more than 10 million people and thousands of eating places.
>
> > a good drink server in Vegas can easly do better than many CEOs,
> > and I mean from legitimate tips, not on their knees.

>
> Yes, many small businesses fail and their CEOs make no money -- oh no,
> that's not you meant -- well, in the casinos in Vegas and many of the
> clubs, drink servers pool their tips so the good servers make no more
> than the bad servers, and it certainly isn't as much as you seem to
> think it is.
>
> The less than minimum wage + tips system results in good compensation
> for a few very skillful servers at high-priced eating and drinking
> places. The trouble with stingy federal legislation is that it applies
> to the vast majority who do not do so well. 99% or so of new
> restaurant ventures fail in less than a year, but it's not because
> paying $2.13/hour tipped them into red ink.
>
> -aem

  #27 (permalink)   Report Post  
Zywicki
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"The only time I made more than
minimum wage in a restaurant setting was when I was working as a
hostess and
also handled the computer accounting stuff in the back of the house.

Jill"

There are several interesting ways to read that statement.

Greg Zywicki

  #28 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dave Smith
 
Posts: n/a
Default

jmcquown wrote:

> Unless something has changed (quite possible), restaurant owners already
> don't have to pay minimum wage to tipped employees. I never earned minimum
> wage when I worked as a server; the tips were expected (ha!) to make up the
> difference and then taxed based on my daily food sales figures regardless of
> whether I made that much in tips or not. The only time I made more than
> minimum wage in a restaurant setting was when I was working as a hostess and
> also handled the computer accounting stuff in the back of the house.


It apparently changes from one place to another, and depends a lot on whether or
not there is alcohol served. I have a nephew who studied hotel management but
went back to waiting because he made so much more money at that and needs to pay
off student loans. . He and his sister worked in a local restaurant bar last
summer and usually made $300 or more on a shift. Not bad for a student.

I consider tipping to be something I have to tolerate. Personally, I don't like
the idea of a person's wages being dependent upon the generosity of customers.
Some of them are cheap SOBs. I like the system in use in most of Europe where
tax and service are included in the menu price. If a meal is $20, you pay $20,
and maybe leave a little change for the waiter.

  #29 (permalink)   Report Post  
Felice Friese
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
...

<snip>

> I consider tipping to be something I have to tolerate. Personally, I don't
> like
> the idea of a person's wages being dependent upon the generosity of
> customers.
> Some of them are cheap SOBs. I like the system in use in most of Europe
> where
> tax and service are included in the menu price. If a meal is $20, you pay
> $20,
> and maybe leave a little change for the waiter.


And that "little change" for the waiter - would that be called a "tip"?

Felice :-)


  #30 (permalink)   Report Post  
Felice Friese
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
...

<snip>

> I consider tipping to be something I have to tolerate. Personally, I don't
> like
> the idea of a person's wages being dependent upon the generosity of
> customers.
> Some of them are cheap SOBs. I like the system in use in most of Europe
> where
> tax and service are included in the menu price. If a meal is $20, you pay
> $20,
> and maybe leave a little change for the waiter.


And that "little change" for the waiter - would that be called a "tip"?

Felice :-)





  #31 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dave Smith
 
Posts: n/a
Default

elice Friese wrote:

> "Dave Smith" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> <snip>
>
> > I consider tipping to be something I have to tolerate. Personally, I don't
> > like
> > the idea of a person's wages being dependent upon the generosity of
> > customers.
> > Some of them are cheap SOBs. I like the system in use in most of Europe
> > where
> > tax and service are included in the menu price. If a meal is $20, you pay
> > $20,
> > and maybe leave a little change for the waiter.

>
> And that "little change" for the waiter - would that be called a "tip"?
>


Tes, it is a tip, but it is a lot less than 15% that is expected here.

  #32 (permalink)   Report Post  
aem
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Puester wrote:
> [snip preceding]
> It figures that this comes from Santorum.
> Do ya think he's angling for Sec. of Labor
> in W's cabinet? Bozo.
>

It's nearly oxymoronic to speak of W's Sec. of Labor, isn't it?
Reminds you of when one of W's heroes appointed a Sec. of Education
whose goal was to eliminate the Dept. of Education.

-aem

  #33 (permalink)   Report Post  
Ruddell
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In > Saerah wrote:
>
> skoonj wrote in message ...



> hmmm. more like a substance that might be present *in* an asshole (but
> maybe only if you read 'savage love')
>
>


I miss Bozo :-(


--
Cheers

Dennis

Remove 'Elle-Kabong' to reply
  #34 (permalink)   Report Post  
Maverick
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"aem" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Sheldon wrote:
> [snip preceding]
>> Huh? Employers are not required to pay waitstaff minimum wage now.
>> Many restaurants pay no wage at all yet highly experienced wait
>> people line up at the door for those jobs...

>
> Yes, it would be nice if industry practices rewarded those highly
> experienced people enough so they wouldn't have to line up for another
> job.
>
>> a good wait person in many four
>> star restaurants can easily earn six figures just from tips...

>
> Yes, but there are only 1 or 2 four star restaurants in Los Angeles, a
> county of more than 10 million people and thousands of eating places.
>
>> a good drink server in Vegas can easly do better than many CEOs,
>> and I mean from legitimate tips, not on their knees.

>
> Yes, many small businesses fail and their CEOs make no money -- oh no,
> that's not you meant -- well, in the casinos in Vegas and many of the
> clubs, drink servers pool their tips so the good servers make no more
> than the bad servers, and it certainly isn't as much as you seem to
> think it is.


I've worked for various Casinos in Vegas over the years. Mostly dealing
with payroll systems and I can say that servers generally don't pool their
tips. Dealers pool tips based on game and shift. The IRS came up with a
"Tip Compliance" program some years ago with the ideal of guarenteeing
tipped employees that they wouldn't get audited due to tip issues if they
would promise to declare so much per job per area per shift. There is no
way in hell a coctail waitress working swing shift in the dollar+ slots area
would pool their tips with another coctail waitress working day shift in the
nickel slots area.

Here's the kicker. The IRS negotiated each rate for job/area/shift with
each casino so you could be a coctail server in the dollar+ slots area
working a the swing shift at two different casino and have to declare a
different amount.

Also, as far as I've seen, the casinos all pay at least minimum wage. I
freaked out when I moved to Nebraska and found out a friend was only making
2 something an hour.

> The less than minimum wage + tips system results in good compensation
> for a few very skillful servers at high-priced eating and drinking
> places. The trouble with stingy federal legislation is that it applies
> to the vast majority who do not do so well. 99% or so of new
> restaurant ventures fail in less than a year, but it's not because
> paying $2.13/hour tipped them into red ink.
>
> -aem


Bret



----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
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  #35 (permalink)   Report Post  
aem
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Maverick wrote:
> "aem" > wrote in message

[snip]
> I've worked for various Casinos in Vegas over the years. Mostly

dealing
> with payroll systems and I can say that servers generally don't pool

their
> tips. Dealers pool tips based on game and shift. The IRS came up

with a
> "Tip Compliance" program some years ago with the ideal of

guarenteeing
> tipped employees that they wouldn't get audited due to tip issues if

they
> would promise to declare so much per job per area per shift. There

is no
> way in hell a coctail waitress working swing shift in the dollar+

slots area
> would pool their tips with another coctail waitress working day shift

in the
> nickel slots area. [snip the rest]


Thanks for that info, it makes sense. My friends worked at relatively
small casinos, so maybe the differentiation between the gaming areas
wasn't as large. They did say that their pools were within their own
shift.

-aem



  #36 (permalink)   Report Post  
Michel Boucher
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"aem" > wrote in news:1110322296.552089.74150
@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:

> Reminds you of when one of W's heroes appointed a Sec. of Education
> whose goal was to eliminate the Dept. of Education.


That's like the time the Prime Minister of Alberta appointed as
minister of Post-Secondary Education a man who only had his grade 8.
His job, it appears, was to tell students how much they cost the
government in student loans, and how they should be a. grateful and
b. ashamed. I guess the hope was that some would "see the light" (tm
applied for) and go out and learn a trade instead of wasting their
time on eddykayshun. After all, you obviously don't need it to be a
Minister of Eddykayshun so there you go...

--

[...] remember when you're feeling very small and insecure,
How amazingly unlikely is your birth
And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space,
'Cause there's bugger all down 'ere on Earth!

Monty Python's Universe Song
  #37 (permalink)   Report Post  
Zywicki
 
Posts: n/a
Default

" If a meal is $20, you pay $20,
and maybe leave a little change for the waiter."

Why do you leave a little change for the waiter if the service is
included?

Greg Zywicki

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