A dozen of so NYC area Bordeaux-heads gathered at Philip Marie in the Village
last night for a look at Ch. Meyney. Meyney's rep as an overachiever has
slipped over the last few years, and we thought we'd see if that was deserved.
Philip Marie has a nice historic downstairs private room, and provided good
food (I had quail stuffed with wild rice & date, followed by a wild boar
special- pretty good. Good shoestring potatoes, too, and others raved about
dessert).

First bottle up was a 1975 Ch. Meyney (St. Estèphe). I had picked up the lone
bottle that Premier Cru listed, when I was having my winter stash shipped I got
an email from PC, saying it was top shoulder, did I still want (or did I want a
refund). I hesitated,but since we already had vertical planned, said ship. My
mistake. Totally shot- brown, turbid, roasted raspberries and burnt wood. Only
wine of the night NO ONE wanted a second pour of, could be used to frighten
people. D -(on my easy scale!)

Oooh Kaay.

Hey, this is better (but what wouldn't be), the 1982 Ch. Meyney (St. Estèphe).
Ripe red fruit, low acidity, earthy. Nice mature Bordeaux if not mindblowing.
B+ (others liked a bit better, #3 for group for WOTN).

1983 Ch. Meyney (St. Estèphe)
Starts off with a bit of VA, but that blows off. A bit tired, tart raspberry
fruit and some leather. I didn't get any TCA, but others opined it was mildly
corked. B/B-

1986 Ch. Meyney (St. Estèphe)
Big , ripe, with deep cassis fruit. Very nice, long finish, not especially
tannic for a 1986. A- (2nd place for WOTN in group voting)

1988 Ch. Meyney (St. Estèphe)
Medium-bodied pleasant claret. Some leather and chocolate, a touch of "Cordier
funk" (which actually wasn't especially noticable across the vintages last
night). Wouldn't go searching, but would be happy to have on my dinner table.
B/B+

1989 Ch. Meyney (St. Estèphe)
Whoa, baby. Nice herbal/earthy/dark fruit nose. Very concentrated blackcurrant
fruit. Some cedar and leather, just a very nice wine. A/A- (voted WOTN by a
pretty good margin).

1994 Ch. Meyney (St. Estèphe)
Surprisingly forward, not too tannic, good medium-bodied claret. B+

(we had a little mixup and didn't end up with the '95, too bad as a couple of
us own it)

1996 Ch. Meyney (St. Estèphe)
I thought a bit tight, some dark fruit and some slightly hard/green tannins. B-
(others liked more)

1998 Ch. Meyney (St. Estèphe)
Soft, forward, easy. Not at all what I expected. Nice enough wine for near term
consumption. B

1999 Ch. Meyney (St. Estèphe)
A nice surprise, good blackcurrant and plum fruit, a little mint and oak.
Drinking pretty nicely. B/B+

2000 Ch. Meyney (St. Estèphe)
Tighter than a couple bottles I had last year. Medium-bodied, some toasted oak
and herbs. Disappointing in the context of some other 2000s at same price
point, but not a bad wine. I think some time would do it some good, others
disagreed (one of the more divided opinions- while no one loved it, our end of
the table seemed to like better than the other). B

1983 de Fargues (Sauternes)
Deep dark golden color, deep honeyed apricot fruit, dense and concentrated,
smoky and intense. A/A-

1988 Guiraud (Sauternes)
Much lighter, more of a tropical fruit style with some spice and toasty oak.
Very good. B+/A-

So has Meyney slid off the list of overachieving Bordeaux? Hard to say. My
feeling is that the 2000 (and to a lesser extent the '96, which I've seen
better showings of) is solid but not spectacular, in vintages where there's a
lot of real stunners in the low-to-mid price range (du Tertre, la Louviere,
etc. in 2000). OK wines in strong vintages. Certainly nothing like the '86 &
'89. The flip side is that last night I thought Meyney did quite well in the
mediocre vintages of the 90s- the '94, '98, and '99 all did better than I
expected. It's too bad we didn't have the '95, a wine I've liked before, to
flesh out the picture. While I don't think last night made me want to go
searching for more Meyney, the showing of the so-so vintages reaffirmed my view
that Meyney is a pretty safe bet as a moderately priced restaurant wine (I've
seen '94-'99 Meyneys on a lot of lists).

Nice night, good people.

Grade disclaimer: I'm a very easy grader, basically A is an excellent wine, B
a good wine, C mediocre. Anything below C means I wouldn't drink at a party
where it was only choice.
Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

Dale Williams wrote:

<SNIP>

> 1983 Ch. Meyney (St. Estèphe)
> Starts off with a bit of VA, but that blows off. A bit tired, tart raspberry
> fruit and some leather. I didn't get any TCA, but others opined it was mildly
> corked. B/B-

I too suspect that something must have been amiss with this wine, as my
impression last year was quite a bit more positive:

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...3%40purdue.edu

>
> 1986 Ch. Meyney (St. Estèphe)
> Big , ripe, with deep cassis fruit. Very nice, long finish, not especially
> tannic for a 1986. A- (2nd place for WOTN in group voting)

Yup, had that last year too (but won't bother you with the Googling).
Sounds like the same wine to me! ;-)


> 1989 Ch. Meyney (St. Estèphe)
> Whoa, baby. Nice herbal/earthy/dark fruit nose. Very concentrated blackcurrant
> fruit. Some cedar and leather, just a very nice wine. A/A- (voted WOTN by a
> pretty good margin).
>

Dammit! We never found this on the market in our area (had recently
moved to the Midwest) so never got any. Arrrggggh.

So how come no '90? As I recall, it was quite a bit better than the '88
-- but of course I can't compare to the '89 :[

Nice tasting, Dale, and very useful notes. Like you, we found Meyney to
offer great (sometimes ridiculous) value in the '80s. Too bad that
they've slipped in comparison to some of their peers in the '90s.

Mark Lipton

In article >, Mark Lipton >
writes:

> 1983 Ch. Meyney (St. Estèphe)
>I too suspect that something must have been amiss with this wine, as my
>impression last year was quite a bit more positive:

I'm no TCA hound, so could have missed it, but also don't know provenance. I
think David from Christies felt there was mild heat damage- not cooked, just
prematurely aged.

>> 1989 Ch. Meyney (St. Estèphe)
>
>Dammit! We never found this on the market in our area (had recently
>moved to the Midwest) so never got any. Arrrggggh.

And it was probably $12 on release. More than any other Meyney, this one has a
rep, and prices reflect that.


>So how come no '90? As I recall, it was quite a bit better than the '88
>-- but of course I can't compare to the '89 :[
>
I think there was someone orginally bringing who dropped out a few weeks back.
Then an attendee had a store confirm they had the '90 for a ridiculously low
price , he said he'd take the 11 they had in stock, then they said "oh, it's
the '94" Only local place showing '90 was WH Frank's, but no one wanted to pony
up $45 due to Franks' storage rep. Sigh.

Would have been a much fuller tasting with '90 & '95 (I could have brought
latter, but thought it was covered- thru a mixup, we ended up with 2 '94s,
which showed about the same).


Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

I bought 2 cases of the 89 on release. What a lucky buy that was. I whole
heartedly agree with your assessment Dale. I have 3 bottles left


--
Lew/+Silat

"Dale Williams" wrote in message >
> 1989 Ch. Meyney (St. Estèphe)
> Whoa, baby. Nice herbal/earthy/dark fruit nose. Very concentrated
blackcurrant
> fruit. Some cedar and leather, just a very nice wine. A/A- (voted WOTN by
a
> pretty good margin).
>
> Dale Williams

"Lew/+Silat" > wrote in message
...
> I bought 2 cases of the 89 on release. What a lucky buy that was. I whole
> heartedly agree with your assessment Dale. I have 3 bottles left

I haven't had it recently, I'm sure it's still good, although I liked it
better on release (I like wines young, though).

Never had the 82. I did have the 75 a few years ago and it was on its way
out.

The 86 is the best Meyney I've ever had, I remember it used to be the "house
wine" at Sparks Steakhouse in NYC, under $30 a bottle off the list. Wow!

I last had the 88 a few years ago from magnum and enjoyed it. But I was
never too impressed by the 90 -- it seemed thin, acidic and lacking fruit.
But I haven't had that one for a few years either.


>
>
> --
> Lew/+Silat
>
> "Dale Williams" wrote in message >
> > 1989 Ch. Meyney (St. Estèphe)
> > Whoa, baby. Nice herbal/earthy/dark fruit nose. Very concentrated
> blackcurrant
> > fruit. Some cedar and leather, just a very nice wine. A/A- (voted WOTN
by
> a
> > pretty good margin).
> >
> > Dale Williams
>
>

Just for a slightly different viewpoint, these are the notes from Arvind Rao,
the event organizer:

Quick overview
This is good estate, but recent wines are not of the caliber of older efforts.
The wines are sturdy, and I'd not be scared about holding them. The most
popular wines were 89, 86, 82 in non blind voting.
We were missing a number of prominent vintages (85, 90, 95) but I doubt those
would have really changed my views as I've had most of those at other times --
although I do think the 95 is the best wine they have made between since 90.
It is more likely that enthusiasts will end up consuming this off restaurant
wine lists that purchasing and cellaring recent efforts. Some tasters may go
back and back fill select older vintages as they are usually modestly priced.
Philip-Marie highly impressed me, and is probably the best restaurant "find" I
can think of in 1Q04 for me.
On to the notes...

75 Meyney [St Estephe] dirty, oxidised, burnt. Oxygen penetrated the cork
here.

82 Meyney [St Estephe] Still flavorful and tasty. Good smoke, seems very
lively. 90 pts.

83 Meyney [St Estephe] Starts off just "ok" then with air develops into good.
Some cherry notes, solid legs, and overall still quite pleasurable. 87 pts.

86 Meyney [St Estephe] To me the class of the tasting. Great rich nose, silky
palate, dark color and just overall fantastic. Solid heft, round mouthfeel.
Unusually generous for an 86 and/or a St Estephe. 92 pts.

88 Meyney [St Estephe] Pretty good, but a little bit more dilute than 86.
Feels like it is declining. 87 pts.

89 Meyney [St Estephe] A popular wine. Other than Cos, every 89 St Estephe I
can think has been a winner. Very fruity but not as concentrated as 86 to me.
More generous than 88. 89 pts.

94 Meyney [St Estephe] Unfortunately due to glitch, we had two of these and no
95. One bottle had a whiff of taint but it blew off and others stated they
could not tell the difference side by side. With aeration, opens up
significantly. Still a decent wine, but nothing great. 84 pts.

96 Meyney [St Estephe] Pretty decent for a good year for the appellation but
the finish is just a shade clipped. The fruit is still quite primary here. My
guess is that this does not meet the hurdle to be included in those with
constrained cellar space. 85 pts.

98 Meyney [St Estephe] Again similiar to the 94 to me, decent not great, and
nothing special. 83 pts.

99 Meyney [St Estephe] Similar to 98 but maybe a shade more primary. 83 pts.

00 Meyney [St Estephe] Again, a clipped finish, showing some primary fruit,
nothing special. I would drink this up quickly, my guess is that it will be
better while the grapiness hides the short length. 84 pts.

83 de Fargues [Sauternes] A seldom seen but high quality dessert wine. Owned
by the same family who produce Y'quem. For whatever reasons, distribution in
the US is weak. Golden, orange, full and rich, dense pure and zesty. 92 pts.

88 Guiraud [Sauternes] I don't know why, but this is one of the few premier cru
Sauternes which tends to leave me unenthralled vintage to vintage. Light straw
gold. Sweet but not enough acid. Tropical fruit. 89 pts.
Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

Dale, how about a Chateau Gloria Mania rundown?


"Dale Williams" > wrote in message
...
> Just for a slightly different viewpoint, these are the notes from Arvind
Rao,
> the event organizer:
>
> Quick overview
> This is good estate, but recent wines are not of the caliber of older
efforts.
> The wines are sturdy, and I'd not be scared about holding them. The most
> popular wines were 89, 86, 82 in non blind voting.
> We were missing a number of prominent vintages (85, 90, 95) but I doubt
those
> would have really changed my views as I've had most of those at other
times --
> although I do think the 95 is the best wine they have made between since
90.
> It is more likely that enthusiasts will end up consuming this off
restaurant
> wine lists that purchasing and cellaring recent efforts. Some tasters may
go
> back and back fill select older vintages as they are usually modestly
priced.
> Philip-Marie highly impressed me, and is probably the best restaurant
"find" I
> can think of in 1Q04 for me.
> On to the notes...
>
> 75 Meyney [St Estephe] dirty, oxidised, burnt. Oxygen penetrated the cork
> here.
>
> 82 Meyney [St Estephe] Still flavorful and tasty. Good smoke, seems very
> lively. 90 pts.
>
> 83 Meyney [St Estephe] Starts off just "ok" then with air develops into
good.
> Some cherry notes, solid legs, and overall still quite pleasurable. 87
pts.
>
> 86 Meyney [St Estephe] To me the class of the tasting. Great rich nose,
silky
> palate, dark color and just overall fantastic. Solid heft, round
mouthfeel.
> Unusually generous for an 86 and/or a St Estephe. 92 pts.
>
> 88 Meyney [St Estephe] Pretty good, but a little bit more dilute than 86.
> Feels like it is declining. 87 pts.
>
> 89 Meyney [St Estephe] A popular wine. Other than Cos, every 89 St
Estephe I
> can think has been a winner. Very fruity but not as concentrated as 86 to
me.
> More generous than 88. 89 pts.
>
> 94 Meyney [St Estephe] Unfortunately due to glitch, we had two of these
and no
> 95. One bottle had a whiff of taint but it blew off and others stated
they
> could not tell the difference side by side. With aeration, opens up
> significantly. Still a decent wine, but nothing great. 84 pts.
>
> 96 Meyney [St Estephe] Pretty decent for a good year for the appellation
but
> the finish is just a shade clipped. The fruit is still quite primary
here. My
> guess is that this does not meet the hurdle to be included in those with
> constrained cellar space. 85 pts.
>
> 98 Meyney [St Estephe] Again similiar to the 94 to me, decent not great,
and
> nothing special. 83 pts.
>
> 99 Meyney [St Estephe] Similar to 98 but maybe a shade more primary. 83
pts.
>
> 00 Meyney [St Estephe] Again, a clipped finish, showing some primary
fruit,
> nothing special. I would drink this up quickly, my guess is that it will
be
> better while the grapiness hides the short length. 84 pts.
>
> 83 de Fargues [Sauternes] A seldom seen but high quality dessert wine.
Owned
> by the same family who produce Y'quem. For whatever reasons, distribution
in
> the US is weak. Golden, orange, full and rich, dense pure and zesty. 92
pts.
>
> 88 Guiraud [Sauternes] I don't know why, but this is one of the few
premier cru
> Sauternes which tends to leave me unenthralled vintage to vintage. Light
straw
> gold. Sweet but not enough acid. Tropical fruit. 89 pts.
> Dale
>
> Dale Williams
> Drop "damnspam" to reply

In article . net>, "dick"
> writes:

>how about a Chateau Gloria Mania rundown

Would be ok with me, though I'm down to one bottle of the '82, then I think
nothing till '98-'00. But this particular group has other wines due up first,
there's talk of a Gruaud vertical, a St. Emilion evening, or even veering off
into Montiano or Barolo/Barbaresco.
Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply