Mike Tommasi > wrote in message >. ..
> On 19 Feb 2004 07:48:34 -0800, (cherie)
> wrote:
>
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
>
> Cannes and the Cote d'Azur are not my cup of tea, but I am told Palm
> Square is very good.
>
> Mike

I think that restaurant is actually located in our hotel. Excellent.

-Cherie

"Nils Gustaf Lindgren" > wrote in message >...
> "Mike Tommasi" > skrev i meddelandet
> news
> > On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 10:26:39 -0500, Mark Lipton >
> > wrote:
>
> > Hey, drop a line, maybe we can meet when you hit the coast, I'm near
> > Bandol, I can take you to visit some upcoming unknowns...
> >
> > Mike
> <fake lady´s voice, fake US accent>
> Yes Mike, please do!
> </fake lady´s voice, fake US accent>
>
> Cheers
>
> ... Did I fool you? ...
> Ah. It´s the nose, right? Always gives me away, the nose ...


Actually, Nils, that sounded just like me! You may just have a career
in that. It's uncanny, it is.

-Cherie

On 21 Feb 2004 07:53:05 -0800, (cherie)
wrote:

>Hey,
>Mike, do you know anything about bourbons available in France?

At Caves Damiani in Marseille you will find Bourbon. What was the last
one I bought, Red something....

Mike

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France
email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail

cherie wrote:

>
> Oh Nils, I had a feeling I might be giving a few of you gentlemen
> heart attacks with my comments. Sigh. I decided being genuinely
> honest was only fair in light of Max's genuinely honest question. I
> don't know why I've strayed from Reislings in recent years, I'm going
> to have to get back into that exploration. But I still don't like the
> Pinot Gris/Pinot Griglio/Savignon Blancs, from what I can tell.
> (defiantly sticking out tongue) And I'm not joking about
> Chardonnay...I love Chardonnay but I am totally Americanized.
> Actually, I think I was poured a glass of French? Chardonnay not to
> long ago at a restaurant, and it thoroughly confused me. (laughing
> now)--You must really be beginning to hate me. I'm sorry (serious
> now), if I am offending you by not being up to the standards of this
> group, I will gracefully bow out of the group and simply observe.
> Really.

Fret not, cherie. Nils is one of the most good natured people you're ever likely to encounter on Usenet (and I say this as
one who spent two great days with him, his charming wife, Mike Tommasi and his wife touring the wine country of the French
Riviera and eating an absolutely stunning bouillabaise). Ignorance is nothing to be ashamed of; indeed, why else do we
spend so much time prattling on about wine here in afw if not for the opportunity to learn and teach about this endlessly
fascinating and complex subject?

To answer your question: the white wines of Burgundy are almost exclusively Chardonnay and represent the apex of what the
grape can achieve. Most are so expensive that unless you're a corporate lawyer or a rock star you probably can't afford
them. However, there are also reasonably priced Chardonnays produced in some of the lesser districts of Burgundy, like
Pouilly-Fuissé and St. Vèran (and Mcon-Villages). Good examples are often tought to find in the US, but you could look to
see if you can find an example from Louis Latour. True Chablis, from the district of that name, is one of the great examples
of Chardonnay and is still affordable. If you can find a Drouhin Chablis, that's a good example. You'll find that
Chardonnay from France is similar in style to Chardonnay from Oregon and New Zealand (crisper, fruitier, less oaky and less
buttery). A good Chardonnay to me tastes of apples and maybe pineapple. See what you think.

HTH
Mark Lipton

cherie wrote:

>
>
> Wow, it's just getting better and better, huh? We are in our upper
> 30's, by the way. But we are not so much the "clubbing" type...more
> the wining and dining type. As long as there are good restaurants
> around and we are at more of a destination resort (which I hear the
> Martinez is), we should be okay.

I'll leave the discussion of Cannes to the residents, but the *drive* from Marseille to Cannes is not to
be missed. Take the highway that runs along the coast. It's a stunning view of the azure
Mediterranean framed against the red sandstone cliffs (a la Lake Mead in AZ, if you've seen it) with the
occasional purple bougainvillea growing up along the cliffs. I'd put that particular stretch of road
alongside Hwy 1 in CA and the Burr Trail in UT as the most spectacular I've seen.

Mark Lipton

"Michael Pronay" > skrev i meddelandet
...
> "Nils Gustaf Lindgren" > wrote:
>
> > Great cow, with all the lovely Riesling about!!! Riesling, the
> > most underevaluated varietal (white) in the world! ALl the
> > goody-goodies from Rheingau, Mosel, Alsace, even Alto Adige!
>
> You're joking not mentionig Austria?! p-p-p-p-leeeze tell me
> you're joking!

..... and laaast, but not least, _AUSTRIA_! Yayy!

Cheers

Nils Gustaf

--
Respond to nils dot lindgren at drchips dot se

"Mark Lipton" > skrev i meddelandet
...
>
>
> cherie wrote:
>
> >
> > Oh Nils, I had a feeling I might be giving a few of you gentlemen
> > heart attacks with my comments.

Never fear, and besides, my cardiologist is mailing you his bill.

....
> To answer your question: the white wines of Burgundy are almost
exclusively Chardonnay and represent the apex of what the
> grape can achieve. Most are so expensive that unless you're a corporate
lawyer or a rock star you probably can't afford
> them. However, there are also reasonably priced Chardonnays produced in
some of the lesser districts of Burgundy, like
> Pouilly-Fuissé and St. Vèran (and Mcon-Villages).

MArk;
While I agree that there are good QPR to be had from the dsitricts outside
Cote d´Or and Chablis, I would still like to point our recent procelyte in
the direction of the "lesser" communes of Cote de Beaune - ST Aubin, St
Romain, and, this evenings offer here in Sweden, Ladoix. Nutty, buttery,
with fresh acids, not Meusault of course, but definitely very good value for
fairly reasonable money. We´ve had Drouhin´s St Aubin twice this autumn and
it is very much a Drouhin - OK, it´s a big producer, perhaps a bit
conventional, but I think of them as valeurs surs (not montant), they ahve
never amde me disappointed, and at times, I have beeen very pleasantly
surprised - anyway, I wasn´t going to blab about Drouhin, but about the
small producers int the small villages ... planning to visit Henri Germain
in Meursault this summer, I hope ...
Serious question, BTW - do you speak French at all, Cherie? If not, a crash
course would be advisable - many of the wine producers speak little or no
English (besides, some of them do not like to, but will do it anyway if you
have shown good willing). Remember, they are farmers, not high school
alumni. Very good farmers, at that, and proud of their profession, but
still, foreign languages have not beeen of major importance for many of
them. Trsut me on this, with some knowledge of French your stay will be more
enjoyable.

Cheers!

Nils Gustaf
--
Respond to nils dot lindgren at drchips dot se

Mark Lipton > wrote in message >...
> cherie wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Wow, it's just getting better and better, huh? We are in our upper
> > 30's, by the way. But we are not so much the "clubbing" type...more
> > the wining and dining type. As long as there are good restaurants
> > around and we are at more of a destination resort (which I hear the
> > Martinez is), we should be okay.
>
> I'll leave the discussion of Cannes to the residents, but the *drive* from Marseille to Cannes is not to
> be missed. Take the highway that runs along the coast. It's a stunning view of the azure
> Mediterranean framed against the red sandstone cliffs (a la Lake Mead in AZ, if you've seen it) with the
> occasional purple bougainvillea growing up along the cliffs. I'd put that particular stretch of road
> alongside Hwy 1 in CA and the Burr Trail in UT as the most spectacular I've seen.
>
> Mark Lipton

Oh, yes, Hwy 1 in CA....breathtaking. Probably the most beautiful
drive I've ever taken (though Alaska, and Hawaii too, is absolutely
awesome). I also just spoke to an acquaintance today who frequents
Europe who described the Mediterranean drive as a fairytale.
Sigghhhhh.

Cherie Morganroth

Mark Lipton > wrote in message >...
> cherie wrote:
>
> >
> > Oh Nils, I had a feeling I might be giving a few of you gentlemen
> > heart attacks with my comments. Sigh. I decided being genuinely
> > honest was only fair in light of Max's genuinely honest question. I
> > don't know why I've strayed from Reislings in recent years, I'm going
> > to have to get back into that exploration. But I still don't like the
> > Pinot Gris/Pinot Griglio/Savignon Blancs, from what I can tell.
> > (defiantly sticking out tongue) And I'm not joking about
> > Chardonnay...I love Chardonnay but I am totally Americanized.
> > Actually, I think I was poured a glass of French? Chardonnay not to
> > long ago at a restaurant, and it thoroughly confused me. (laughing
> > now)--You must really be beginning to hate me. I'm sorry (serious
> > now), if I am offending you by not being up to the standards of this
> > group, I will gracefully bow out of the group and simply observe.
> > Really.
>
> Fret not, cherie. Nils is one of the most good natured people you're ever likely to encounter on Usenet (and I say this as
> one who spent two great days with him, his charming wife, Mike Tommasi and his wife touring the wine country of the French
> Riviera and eating an absolutely stunning bouillabaise). Ignorance is nothing to be ashamed of; indeed, why else do we
> spend so much time prattling on about wine here in afw if not for the opportunity to learn and teach about this endlessly
> fascinating and complex subject?
>
> To answer your question: the white wines of Burgundy are almost exclusively Chardonnay and represent the apex of what the
> grape can achieve. Most are so expensive that unless you're a corporate lawyer or a rock star you probably can't afford
> them. However, there are also reasonably priced Chardonnays produced in some of the lesser districts of Burgundy, like
> Pouilly-Fuissé and St. Vèran (and Mcon-Villages). Good examples are often tought to find in the US, but you could look to
> see if you can find an example from Louis Latour. True Chablis, from the district of that name, is one of the great examples
> of Chardonnay and is still affordable. If you can find a Drouhin Chablis, that's a good example. You'll find that
> Chardonnay from France is similar in style to Chardonnay from Oregon and New Zealand (crisper, fruitier, less oaky and less
> buttery). A good Chardonnay to me tastes of apples and maybe pineapple. See what you think.
>
> HTH
> Mark Lipton

Just as I suspected! Really, you all seem like good-natured, kind,
fun, intelligent and generous people. And I didn't think Nils was
being a bully at all--I'm not TOO sensitive--but I'm sure he was a
little frustrated with me. Having just invaded your group this week,
I feel I have already learned so much, yet seem to have so little of
my own knowledge to impart to all of you. Maybe I can surprise you
all in time. In the meantime, I will be perusing the wine list
tonight for something new (to me) to try. Last night I tried an
Amerone which was very nice but I was expecting more...more what I'm
not sure...more complexity, more richness...it was a Cesari 1999
Amerone della Valpolicella Classico. I prefered the Zenato Ripassi I
had the night before--so very velvety. As far as Chardonnay goes,
maybe one of these days I will have to splurge (how much are we
talking about??) and try a Chardonnay from Burgundy, I would love to
experience all that a French Chardonnay can be. (Hell, I'm no rock
star, but I am a corporate lawyer!)

-Cherie Morganroth

(cherie) wrote in
om:

> Mark Lipton > wrote in message
> >...
>> cherie wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Oh Nils, I had a feeling I might be giving a few of you gentlemen
>> > heart attacks with my comments. Sigh. I decided being genuinely
>> > honest was only fair in light of Max's genuinely honest question.
>> > I don't know why I've strayed from Reislings in recent years, I'm
>> > going to have to get back into that exploration. But I still don't
>> > like the Pinot Gris/Pinot Griglio/Savignon Blancs, from what I can
>> > tell. (defiantly sticking out tongue) And I'm not joking about
>> > Chardonnay...I love Chardonnay but I am totally Americanized.
>> > Actually, I think I was poured a glass of French? Chardonnay not to
>> > long ago at a restaurant, and it thoroughly confused me. (laughing
>> > now)--You must really be beginning to hate me. I'm sorry (serious
>> > now), if I am offending you by not being up to the standards of
>> > this group, I will gracefully bow out of the group and simply
>> > observe. Really.
>>
>> Fret not, cherie. Nils is one of the most good natured people you're
>> ever likely to encounter on Usenet (and I say this as one who spent
>> two great days with him, his charming wife, Mike Tommasi and his wife
>> touring the wine country of the French Riviera and eating an
>> absolutely stunning bouillabaise). Ignorance is nothing to be
>> ashamed of; indeed, why else do we spend so much time prattling on
>> about wine here in afw if not for the opportunity to learn and teach
>> about this endlessly fascinating and complex subject?
>>
>> To answer your question: the white wines of Burgundy are almost
>> exclusively Chardonnay and represent the apex of what the grape can
>> achieve. Most are so expensive that unless you're a corporate lawyer
>> or a rock star you probably can't afford them. However, there are
>> also reasonably priced Chardonnays produced in some of the lesser
>> districts of Burgundy, like Pouilly-Fuissé and St. Vèran (and
>> Mcon-Villages). Good examples are often tought to find in the US,
>> but you could look to see if you can find an example from Louis
>> Latour. True Chablis, from the district of that name, is one of the
>> great examples of Chardonnay and is still affordable. If you can
>> find a Drouhin Chablis, that's a good example. You'll find that
>> Chardonnay from France is similar in style to Chardonnay from Oregon
>> and New Zealand (crisper, fruitier, less oaky and less buttery). A
>> good Chardonnay to me tastes of apples and maybe pineapple. See
>> what you think.
>>
>> HTH
>> Mark Lipton
>
> Just as I suspected! Really, you all seem like good-natured, kind,
> fun, intelligent and generous people. And I didn't think Nils was
> being a bully at all--I'm not TOO sensitive--but I'm sure he was a
> little frustrated with me. Having just invaded your group this week,
> I feel I have already learned so much, yet seem to have so little of
> my own knowledge to impart to all of you. Maybe I can surprise you
> all in time. In the meantime, I will be perusing the wine list
> tonight for something new (to me) to try. Last night I tried an
> Amerone which was very nice but I was expecting more...more what I'm
> not sure...more complexity, more richness...it was a Cesari 1999
> Amerone della Valpolicella Classico. I prefered the Zenato Ripassi I
> had the night before--so very velvety. As far as Chardonnay goes,
> maybe one of these days I will have to splurge (how much are we
> talking about??) and try a Chardonnay from Burgundy, I would love to
> experience all that a French Chardonnay can be. (Hell, I'm no rock
> star, but I am a corporate lawyer!)
>
> -Cherie Morganroth
>

For a good Chablis you should be able to get Drouhin in a good store for
15 for a village wine and 25 or so for a premier cru, Grand cru will be
more. There is a large difference among small vinyards in Burgundies.

For the Grand cru look for the grapes to come from Grenouilles (there
are six others and all are good but Grenouille is my favorite
"unpronouncable" word in French. You should see the reactions from my
French friends when I try it)

Premier crus that I have enjoyed come from Montee Tonnerre, Fourchaume,
and Vaillons. The one you will like best by comparison to California is
William Fevre, oaky and unusual for a Chablis but please stick with
Drouhin, or Long Depaquit or Laroche all of which should be available in
your market. Chablis is in general a very austere wine with a taste like
water off of fresh pebbles in a mountain stream. (You can smell the
limestone and that is a good thing!)

Salut/Hi Mark Lipton,

le/on Sat, 21 Feb 2004 18:52:07 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

>> to have to get back into that exploration. But I still don't like the
>> Pinot Gris/Pinot Griglio/Savignon Blancs, from what I can tell.
>> (defiantly sticking out tongue)

No need to stick out tongue. There's on old saying "one man's meat is
another man's poison" (I leave it to you to put in "wo" in places where it
suits! So you don't need to be either defensive or defiant ;-)) (Even in
jest).

>> Actually, I think I was poured a glass of French? Chardonnay not to
>> long ago at a restaurant, and it thoroughly confused me.

Don't worry, most people brought up in US style wines find french wines
confusing, if not downright disappointing.

>Riviera and eating an absolutely stunning bouillabaise). Ignorance is nothing to be ashamed of; indeed, why else do we
>spend so much time prattling on about wine here in afw if not for the opportunity to learn and teach about this endlessly
>fascinating and complex subject?

I'd underline this. I may know a lot about one wine type or another, but am
almost entirely ignorant about many. Even in my areas of knowledge, there
are many times when I make mistakes. In general, when people aren't
aggressive or blatantly (and erroneously) pig-headed, we're really quite a
tolerant bunch, who get on well together.

>To answer your question: the white wines of Burgundy are almost exclusively Chardonnay and represent the apex of what the
>grape can achieve.

I agree 100% (but I am hopelessly in love with them. Quite beyond
redemption).

> Most are so expensive that unless you're a corporate lawyer or a rock star you probably can't afford them.

There I must qualify you, Mark. "In America". I bought François Mikulski
(who has some small following in the USA it seems) Meursault Genverières -
arguably his best wine (2001 I think) recently and it cost me under $40 a
bottle. From what I read on the NG, that's considered a well within a
moderate budget here on afw.

> True Chablis, from the district of that name, is one of the great examples of Chardonnay and is still affordable.

Again, I agree (as I usually do with you) but it would only be fair to point
out that Chablis represents more or less one extreme of the grape variety in
France, with wines such as Meursault being close to the opposite extreme.


--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website

"Nils Gustaf Lindgren" > wrote in message >...
> "Mark Lipton" > skrev i meddelandet
> ...

> Serious question, BTW - do you speak French at all, Cherie? If not, a crash
> course would be advisable - many of the wine producers speak little or no
> English (besides, some of them do not like to, but will do it anyway if you
> have shown good willing). Remember, they are farmers, not high school
> alumni. Very good farmers, at that, and proud of their profession, but
> still, foreign languages have not beeen of major importance for many of
> them. Trsut me on this, with some knowledge of French your stay will be more
> enjoyable.
>
> Cheers!
>
> Nils Gustaf

I took French all through high school, but that was a long time ago.
I do remember quite a few words, but have great difficulty putting
them into proper sentences. I bought a translating phrase book and a
dictionary, determinined to study up. However, one problem keeps
tugging at me--no matter how many "phrases" or little questions I
teach myself to emit, I am fairly certain that there is no way I am
going to understand anyone's response! And my poor husband does not
know any French at all. Maybe I should try to find a local class for
us to take, or buy some tapes or something. We have four months.

-Cherie (at least I have a French name)

"cherie" > skrev i meddelandet
om...
> "Nils Gustaf Lindgren" > wrote in message
>...
> > "Mark Lipton" > skrev i meddelandet
> > ...
>

> ... I am fairly certain that there is no way I am
> going to understand anyone's response! And my poor husband does not
> know any French at all. Maybe I should try to find a local class for
> us to take, or buy some tapes or something.

You may have a problem if you visit Gros Noré and it´s M Pascal's brother
(who i, of course, also M Pascal) who takes the call - he has an accent you
could float a brick on. Appart from taht, just get going. I promis you, you
won´t regret it. besides, if you took French in high school it would appear
to be more of refreshing old knowledge.

Cheers

Nils Gustaf
--
Respond to nils dot lindgren at drchips dot se

(cherie) wrote in
om:

> "Nils Gustaf Lindgren" > wrote in
> message >...
>> "Mark Lipton" > skrev i meddelandet
>> ...
>
>> Serious question, BTW - do you speak French at all, Cherie? If not, a
>> crash course would be advisable - many of the wine producers speak
>> little or no English (besides, some of them do not like to, but will
>> do it anyway if you have shown good willing). Remember, they are
>> farmers, not high school alumni. Very good farmers, at that, and
>> proud of their profession, but still, foreign languages have not
>> beeen of major importance for many of them. Trsut me on this, with
>> some knowledge of French your stay will be more enjoyable.
>>
>> Cheers!
>>
>> Nils Gustaf
>
> I took French all through high school, but that was a long time ago.
> I do remember quite a few words, but have great difficulty putting
> them into proper sentences. I bought a translating phrase book and a
> dictionary, determinined to study up. However, one problem keeps
> tugging at me--no matter how many "phrases" or little questions I
> teach myself to emit, I am fairly certain that there is no way I am
> going to understand anyone's response! And my poor husband does not
> know any French at all. Maybe I should try to find a local class for
> us to take, or buy some tapes or something. We have four months.
>
> -Cherie (at least I have a French name)

I have found, though I can hardly follow a french conversation, that
when you show the inclination to communicate, the respnse will be slower
and clearer. This is especially true at wineries because the people that
you are dealing with, though far from cosmopolitan, are immensely proud
of their work and will go to great lengths to be understood as long as
you show how much you care. I have had incredible tours of facilities
from people who spoke no English and since tasting is without language,
was going to say tongue ;-) the smiles the oohs and ahhs cover a great
range of vocabulary.

"Ian Hoare" > wrote in message
...
>
> >> Actually, I think I was poured a glass of French? Chardonnay not to
> >> long ago at a restaurant, and it thoroughly confused me.
>
> Don't worry, most people brought up in US style wines find french wines
> confusing, if not downright disappointing.

Indeed. Last night I brought a Verget Puligny-Montrachet Les Pucelles '93
to a small dinner. Something of a departure from California chards.
Enjoyable, certainly. Segue into ...

.... which wine would you pair with black sea bass steamed with ginger and
scallions?

Steve Grant wrote:

> Indeed. Last night I brought a Verget Puligny-Montrachet Les Pucelles '93
> to a small dinner. Something of a departure from California chards.
> Enjoyable, certainly. Segue into ...
>
> ... which wine would you pair with black sea bass steamed with ginger and
> scallions?

I'd opt for a Grüner Veltliner, preferably a Smaragd from the Wachau. An
off-dry Riesling would do well, too, IMO.

Mark Lipton

"Steve Grant" > wrote in
:

> "Ian Hoare" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> >> Actually, I think I was poured a glass of French? Chardonnay not
>> >> to long ago at a restaurant, and it thoroughly confused me.
>>
>> Don't worry, most people brought up in US style wines find french
>> wines confusing, if not downright disappointing.
>
> Indeed. Last night I brought a Verget Puligny-Montrachet Les Pucelles
> '93 to a small dinner. Something of a departure from California
> chards. Enjoyable, certainly. Segue into ...
>
> ... which wine would you pair with black sea bass steamed with ginger
> and scallions?
>
I would think Sauvignon Blanc, the citrus notes would work well with the
ginger.

Ian Hoare > wrote in message >. ..


Ian:

Thanks for the words of wisdom. I think that simply learning more
about wines on this NG, Chardonnays in this instance, will help me to
appreciate French (and other) wines more. When I was poured that
French Chardonnay, it was really my expectations that got in the way.
I remember that throughout my glass of wine I altered between
appreciating its qualities, and actually doubting that it was even
Chardonnay because it did not resemble what I knew to be Chardonnay.
This irritated me because I couldn't figure out why I was served this
wine after telling the server what I was looking for. I think with my
new understanding I could be considerably more open to the differences
in these wines. And last week, after trying my first French Red (a
Cote du Rhone), I was really surprised to find how much I enjoyed it.
(Though I think this particular CDR needed a touch more fruit for my
tastes). And the Zenato Ripassi--not French, I know--but without
reading about it on this NG, I never would have recognized it on a
wine list last week and ordered it (my husband and I both loved it).
Anyway, my point is that even though I have a very long way to go, I'm
already learning so much. (So, thank you, afw people.)

-Cherie M.

"Nils Gustaf Lindgren" > wrote in message >...
> "cherie" > skrev i meddelandet
> om...
> > "Nils Gustaf Lindgren" > wrote in message
> >...
> > > "Mark Lipton" > skrev i meddelandet
> > > ...
> >
>
> > ... I am fairly certain that there is no way I am
> > going to understand anyone's response! And my poor husband does not
> > know any French at all. Maybe I should try to find a local class for
> > us to take, or buy some tapes or something.
>
> You may have a problem if you visit Gros Noré and it´s M Pascal's brother
> (who i, of course, also M Pascal) who takes the call - he has an accent you
> could float a brick on. Appart from taht, just get going. I promis you, you
> won´t regret it. besides, if you took French in high school it would appear
> to be more of refreshing old knowledge.
>
> Cheers
>
> Nils Gustaf

Nils-
I appreciate the advice. I am a little nervous about it. I want this
trip to be all that it can be. I could probably get by with minimal
language-refreshing if my trip were to begin and end in Paris...but
alas, that's just the beginning of the adventure. Who knew a few
weeks ago that I would now be learning so much about wine, studying
French again, and conversing with enlightened strangers from across
the globe. I love that life is like that. My little world is getting
bigger.

(Enough philosophizing.)
Au revoir-
Cherie

--
Respond to nils dot lindgren at drchips dot se
"cherie" > skrev i meddelandet
om...
> "Nils Gustaf Lindgren" > wrote in message
>...
> > "cherie" > skrev i meddelandet
> > om...
> > > "Nils Gustaf Lindgren" > wrote in
message
> > >...
> > > > "Mark Lipton" > skrev i meddelandet
> > > > ...
> > >
> >
....
>... I could probably get by with minimal
> language-refreshing if my trip were to begin and end in Paris...

Don´t bet on it. Some Parisians can (as is always the case with the *******s
living in the capitol, as in, ANY capitol) be quite snotty ...



Nils Gustaf

jcoulter > wrote in message .204.17>...
> (cherie) wrote in
> om:
>
>
> I have found, though I can hardly follow a french conversation, that
> when you show the inclination to communicate, the respnse will be slower
> and clearer. This is especially true at wineries because the people that
> you are dealing with, though far from cosmopolitan, are immensely proud
> of their work and will go to great lengths to be understood as long as
> you show how much you care. I have had incredible tours of facilities
> from people who spoke no English and since tasting is without language,
> was going to say tongue ;-) the smiles the oohs and ahhs cover a great
> range of vocabulary.


Thanks, that totally makes sense and is reassuring.

Salut/Hi cherie,

le/on 23 Feb 2004 07:29:19 -0800, tu disais/you said:-

>Ian Hoare > wrote in message >. ..
>
>
>Ian:
>
>Thanks for the words of wisdom. I think that simply learning more
>about wines on this NG, Chardonnays in this instance, will help me to
>appreciate French (and other) wines more.

For your sake, I hope so. It's a shame to miss out on pleasures, and if you
never come to like French wines (or Austrian, or Australian etc) you're
missing out on a lot of pleasure. Where much Californian and Australian wine
is about sheer in your face pleasure, most European wine is intended (and
vinified) to accompany food, without dominating it. I believe that it is
essential to understand this if you're going to come to grips with these
wines.

An example. In California, as I understand it, the Merlot grape is vinified
to be soft and blackberryish, without much distinction generally. Speaking
from a European perspective, it is the classic grape of Pomerol in Bordeaux,
and one of the world's best and most expensive wine (Ch Pétrus) is made
there, from it. It is also the leading grape in Ticino (Tessin) in
Switzerland, and there too, it makes a very powerful expressive and intense
wine, capable of loooooonnngggg aging.

So wines made from the same grapes in different parts of the world can be
wildly different, and it can be just as wrong to judge a Californian wine as
if it were the same grape variety from Europe, as to do vice versa, and
judge a European wine as of it were Californian.
--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website

Ian Hoare > wrote in message >. ..
> Salut/Hi cherie,
>
> le/on 23 Feb 2004 07:29:19 -0800, tu disais/you said:-
>
> >Ian Hoare > wrote in message >. ..
> >
>
> For your sake, I hope so. It's a shame to miss out on pleasures, and if you
> never come to like French wines (or Austrian, or Australian etc) you're
> missing out on a lot of pleasure.


I attempted to try a French white Burgundy last night with dinner.
There was only one on the wines-by-the-glass menu, quite inexpensive,
and I cannot remember the name. I was poured a taste, which went very
well--until the finish--which was unpleasantly dry to me. I chickened
out and defaulted to a California Chardonnay, which was nice (and
predictable) but did not hold up all that well with the heat involved
in my blackened seafood entree. A Reisling would have done better,
maybe? I will keep trying.

Salut/Hi cherie,

le/on 24 Feb 2004 07:38:55 -0800, tu disais/you said:-

>> For your sake, I hope so. It's a shame to miss out on pleasures, and if you
>> never come to like French wines (or Austrian, or Australian etc) you're
>> missing out on a lot of pleasure.
>
>
>I attempted to try a French white Burgundy last night with dinner.
>There was only one on the wines-by-the-glass menu, quite inexpensive,
>and I cannot remember the name.

In general, wines sold by the glass tend to be bottom end, especially likely
if you say it was inexpensive. I'd not worry about not liking it too much.
Any more than you would worry about not liking one particular "Californian
Chardonnay". What did you drink it with?

oups...

>out and defaulted to a California Chardonnay, which was nice (and
>predictable) but did not hold up all that well with the heat involved
>in my blackened seafood entree.

Ah, that's likely to be quite a tricky match, with the smokiness (sp?) and
amount of chili in most blackened spice mixes. In general a match with food
of that type is more a matter of damage limitation than a marriage made in
heaven.

> A Reisling would have done better, maybe?

Perhaps, though I'd not hold my breath.

D'you know, when doing spicy bbq food (not the same, I know) I often look to
a fairly full bodied pink wine. It's often reasonably priced, and rarely of
such subtlety that it will matter much if it's eclipsed.

> I will keep trying.

That's the spirit.
--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website

Ian Hoare > wrote in message >. ..
> Salut/Hi cherie,
>
> le/on 24 Feb 2004 07:38:55 -0800, tu disais/you said:-
>
> In general, wines sold by the glass tend to be bottom end, especially likely
> if you say it was inexpensive. I'd not worry about not liking it too much.

Yes, I figured as much. But my husband was ordering his usual pick at
this particular restaurant (Franciscan Merlot--which is a wonderful
wine, I might add) so I was stuck with the glass selections.
>
> Ah, that's likely to be quite a tricky match, with the smokiness (sp?) and
> amount of chili in most blackened spice mixes. In general a match with food
> of that type is more a matter of damage limitation than a marriage made in
> heaven.
>
> > A Reisling would have done better, maybe?
>
> Perhaps, though I'd not hold my breath.

A shame because the dinner itself was delicious---Blackened escarole
(I swear it's called escarole, but isn't that a green??), yellow
pepper coulis, grilled roma tomatoes and asparagus. The wine did not
ruin it, but it did not compliment it either. Maybe I should have had
a beer!

> D'you know, when doing spicy bbq food (not the same, I know) I often look to
> a fairly full bodied pink wine. It's often reasonably priced, and rarely of
> such subtlety that it will matter much if it's eclipsed.

That sounds interesting! I'll have to remember that. Do you mean a
white zinfandel? Or some kind of rose'...I'm not so familiar...

cherie wrote:

> A shame because the dinner itself was delicious---Blackened escarole
> (I swear it's called escarole, but isn't that a green??), yellow
> pepper coulis, grilled roma tomatoes and asparagus. The wine did not
> ruin it, but it did not compliment it either. Maybe I should have had
> a beer!

Escarole as a fish? -- most interesting! Given that list of ingredients, trying to find a decent (let
alone sublime) wine match is nigh unto impossible. The asparagus and the grilled tomatoes don't make
things any easier, to say the least. Your idea of a beer ain't half bad, cherie.

>
>
> > D'you know, when doing spicy bbq food (not the same, I know) I often look to
> > a fairly full bodied pink wine. It's often reasonably priced, and rarely of
> > such subtlety that it will matter much if it's eclipsed.
>
> That sounds interesting! I'll have to remember that. Do you mean a
> white zinfandel? Or some kind of rose'...I'm not so familiar...

White Zin is a poor excuse for a rosé, as it lacks the acids of its European counterparts that make them so
appealing (I confess that in the very distant past, DeLoach did make a few appealing white Zins). Most
rosés from France will be much more crisp and light when compared to a standard White Zin.

Mark Lipton

In om,
cherie > typed:

> A shame because the dinner itself was delicious---Blackened
escarole
> (I swear it's called escarole, but isn't that a green??),


Yes, it is a green vegetable. You probably mean escolar, not
escarole.

--
Ken Blake
Please reply to the newsgroup

>my husband is a fan of premium bourbons...in the
>states we usually come across Blantans (his favorite), Basil Hayden,
>Bakers, Bookers, Woodford Reserve, and a few others. Anything
>different you know of over there (or here for that matter) he can try?

Since Bourbon is made in Bourbon County Kentucky I wouldn't think that you
could find anything in France that you wouldn't find here. Like your husband,
I like Blanton's but Knob Creek also makes a good single batch as does Woodford
Reserve.
Bi!!

>A shame because the dinner itself was delicious---Blackened escarole
>(I swear it's called escarole, but isn't that a green??), yellow
>pepper coulis, grilled roma tomatoes and asparagus

Are you sure that it wasn't Escolar which is a type of Sea Bass?
Bi!!

"Ken Blake" > wrote in message >...
> In om,
> cherie > typed:
>
> > A shame because the dinner itself was delicious---Blackened
> escarole
> > (I swear it's called escarole, but isn't that a green??),
>
>
> Yes, it is a green vegetable. You probably mean escolar, not
> escarole.


ESCOLAR, ESCOLAR!!! Thank you so much, that was driving me absolutely insane.
-Cherie

Mark Lipton > wrote in message >...
> cherie wrote:
>
> > A shame because the dinner itself was delicious---Blackened escarole
> > (I swear it's called escarole, but isn't that a green??), yellow
> > pepper coulis, grilled roma tomatoes and asparagus. The wine did not
> > ruin it, but it did not compliment it either. Maybe I should have had
> > a beer!
>
> Escarole as a fish? -- most interesting! Given that list of ingredients, trying to find a decent (let
> alone sublime) wine match is nigh unto impossible. The asparagus and the grilled tomatoes don't make
> things any easier, to say the least. Your idea of a beer ain't half bad, cherie.
>
> >
> >
> > > D'you know, when doing spicy bbq food (not the same, I know) I often look to
> > > a fairly full bodied pink wine. It's often reasonably priced, and rarely of
> > > such subtlety that it will matter much if it's eclipsed.
> >
> > That sounds interesting! I'll have to remember that. Do you mean a
> > white zinfandel? Or some kind of rose'...I'm not so familiar...
>
> White Zin is a poor excuse for a rosé, as it lacks the acids of its European counterparts that make them so
> appealing (I confess that in the very distant past, DeLoach did make a few appealing white Zins). Most
> rosés from France will be much more crisp and light when compared to a standard White Zin.
>
> Mark Lipton

I'm sorry, it's escolar, not escarole (thanks to Ken). It's a really
nice fish...stark white, and meaty but delicate. My only experience
with rose' is rose' champagne, which I used to love but haven't had in
several years. Wait! In 2000, my husband and I were served a bottle
of French rose' in St. Barths...pretty nice if I remember correctly.

-Cherie

In om,
cherie > typed:

> "Ken Blake" > wrote in message
> >...
>> In om,
>> cherie > typed:
>>
>> > A shame because the dinner itself was delicious---Blackened
>> escarole
>> > (I swear it's called escarole, but isn't that a green??),
>>
>>
>> Yes, it is a green vegetable. You probably mean escolar, not
>> escarole.
>
>
> ESCOLAR, ESCOLAR!!! Thank you so much, that was driving me
absolutely
> insane. -Cherie


You're welcome.

--
Ken Blake
Please reply to the newsgroup

(RV WRLee) wrote in message >...
> >A shame because the dinner itself was delicious---Blackened escarole
> >(I swear it's called escarole, but isn't that a green??), yellow
> >pepper coulis, grilled roma tomatoes and asparagus
>
> Are you sure that it wasn't Escolar which is a type of Sea Bass?
> Bi!!

Right, you are. Although I was not aware that it is a type of Sea
Bass. I suppose it does resemble a black bass to me, but not a
Chilean sea bass which is more oily and less meaty. Does that sound
right to you? I cannot imagine a blackened Chilean sea bass going
over very well...

Cherie

Ian Hoare > wrote in message >. ..
> Salut/Hi cherie,
>
> le/on 24 Feb 2004 07:38:55 -0800, tu disais/you said:-
>
> >> For your sake, I hope so. It's a shame to miss out on pleasures, and if you
> >> never come to like French wines (or Austrian, or Australian etc) you're
> >> missing out on a lot of pleasure.
> >
> >
> >I attempted to try a French white Burgundy last night with dinner.
> >There was only one on the wines-by-the-glass menu, quite inexpensive,
> >and I cannot remember the name.
>
> In general, wines sold by the glass tend to be bottom end, especially likely
> if you say it was inexpensive. I'd not worry about not liking it too much.
> Any more than you would worry about not liking one particular "Californian
> Chardonnay". What did you drink it with?
>
> oups...
>
> >out and defaulted to a California Chardonnay, which was nice (and
> >predictable) but did not hold up all that well with the heat involved
> >in my blackened seafood entree.
>
> Ah, that's likely to be quite a tricky match, with the smokiness (sp?) and
> amount of chili in most blackened spice mixes. In general a match with food
> of that type is more a matter of damage limitation than a marriage made in
> heaven.
>
> > A Reisling would have done better, maybe?
>
> Perhaps, though I'd not hold my breath.
>
> D'you know, when doing spicy bbq food (not the same, I know) I often look to
> a fairly full bodied pink wine. It's often reasonably priced, and rarely of
> such subtlety that it will matter much if it's eclipsed.
>
> > I will keep trying.
>
> That's the spirit.

Okay, I continued my education last night. (No wine Wednesday night,
not such a good accompaniment to an egg-white omelette with spinach
and mushroom, and wheat toast). Last night my dinner was a simple
dish of grilled swordfish, basmati rice, and steamed greeen beens. I
was confined to the wines-by-the-glass menu once again (my husband and
I only wanted one glass each), but I think this restaurant has decent
selections. We asked for a taste of three different whites: Daulny
Sancerre, Deux Roches Macon Davaye', and Nora Albarino. I have no
idea what Daulny Sancerre is, but both my husband and I found it to be
overwhelmingly dry, so we did not ask for any further information.
The French Chardonnay was nice, but again I found the finish just a
little overly dry for me. Lastly, we tried the Nora Albarino, a
Spanish wine which we were told was a perfect pairing for seafood, and
found it to be our favorite of the bunch. I found it to resemble a
dry Reisling, but was infored that Albarino was actually the name of
the grape. Interesting.

Have a great weekend.
Cherie

cherie wrote:

> > Are you sure that it wasn't Escolar which is a type of Sea Bass?
> > Bi!!
>
> Right, you are. Although I was not aware that it is a type of Sea
> Bass. I suppose it does resemble a black bass to me, but not a
> Chilean sea bass which is more oily and less meaty. Does that sound
> right to you? I cannot imagine a blackened Chilean sea bass going
> over very well...

Cherie, "Chilean Sea Bass" is an entirely unrelated fish, no bass at all. It also goes by the name
"Patagonian Toothfish," but some marketing whiz who'd learned his lessons from the renaming of the
"Chinese gooseberry" to the Kiwi Fruit rechristened the hapless fish, and thus the "Chilean Sea Bass"
was born. Here's a link to the real things:

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/mrd/mspcont9.html

HTH
Mark Lipton