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Old 15-12-2008, 02:04 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default TN: Northern and Southern Rhones in Midtown

8 good geeks gathered gleefully Sunday night at Fabio Piccolo Fiore in
midtown east for an assortment of Rhones, South and North. Restaurant
did a nice job overall, I enjoyed my burrata, a little tasting of
pastas (lobster ravioli, pappadelle with porcini, and gnocchi in
pasta), and rack of lamb (or lack of ram for Ian). Everyone was quite
generous with wines:

1997 Chave Hermitage Blanc
Honied and a little oily, crisp, fresh,* good tropical and pit fruits,
very good length. A-

First red flight
1988 Brunel "Les Cailloux" Chateauneuf-du-Pape
Sweet red fruit, a bit of mushroom, lighter bodied, maybe just a bit
tired, I liked a tad better a couple years ago, but overall holding on
well, in a slightly less burly style. B+/B

1995 Beaucastel Chateauneuf-du-Pape
Showing fairly young, big dark fruits, light tannins. ok acidity. Good
length, depth, develops in glass a lot. I enjoy this and think it has
a long future. A-

1995 Pegau* "Cuvee Reserve" Chateauneuf-du-Pape
Big (BIG) sweet red fruits, iodine, a little pepper. Approaches jammy
at times. Some others liked more than I. B
*
2001* Charvin Chateauneuf-du-Pape
Raspberries, kirsch, a bit of garrigue. Some animal and earth notes
with time. Good, in a style that straddles both modern and
traditional. B/B+

2001* Sabon "Cuvee Prestige" Chateauneuf-du-Pape
Sweet fruit, jammy, a bit hot. There's a sweaty note I don't like,
though others don't notice. My least favorite of the night. C+

2001 Charbonniere "Les Hautes Brusquieres Cuvee Speciale" Chateauneuf-
du-Pape
Sweet canned red fruits, a little pepper, inoffensive. B-

Third red flight
1996 Chapoutier Cornas
I'm not a huge Chapoutier fan, but like the nose on this- nice herbs
and spices over red fruit. On the palate it's a bit flat, however. B/
B-

1996 Allemand "Reynard" Cornas
Quite funky nose. Dried cow patties on a wood fire, maybe some cured
meat (Jeff says mortadella, I'm thinking more smoked ham), but
conventionally tasty on palate. Strange but good. A-/B+

1998 Verset* Cornas
Lively nose with flowers, olives, bacon fat and red fruits. On the
palate the fruit profile is darker, but great (balanced) acidity
enlivens the whole package. Tannins are mostly integrated,but this
could age a long time more on these acids. Just a lovely bottle, my
WOTN. A

1999* Voge Cornas Vielles Vignes
A little oak at first, young, ripe red cherry and raspberry fruit with
herbs and earth. Quite good. A-

Red flight four

1998 Ch. Saint Cosme Cote Rotie
Blackberries and blueberries, nice herbs and meat a bit round for my
taste, could use a little more acidity, comes across with a slightly
soupy feel. Not bad overall, but outclassed by a couple of flightmates
and predeccessors. B

1986 Chave Hermitage Rouge
At first I got a funny note of roasted peanuts (?!), but that blew
off. Completely clear at the edges. A nice old dowager, but I think
maybe just a few years past its prime. Still, even if not top Chave,
it still shows its pedigree, with game meats, earth, and pepper
intertwining with the fruit. A tad tired, but still in contention. B+/
A-

1998 Gerin "Les Grandes Places" Cote Rotie
Dark berry fruit with a little mocha and vanilla, rather full bodied,
tasty but less identifiably Rhone than the other wines tonight. B

1998 Jamet Cote Rotie*
This rivalled the Verset for my WOTN. Lovely, muscular and young. A
little hint of animal fur - maybe a touch of brett, but at my "adds
spice" level, not intrusive at all. There's leather, coffee, and
roasted gamebird notes, a nice balance of acidity and tannins, miles
to go but quite charming now. A/A-

Sundays there are only hourly trains, so I leapt up to make the 9:20.
Patrick offered up the 2003 Coutet, I took a small sip, then carefully
stowed the glass with the remainder of the pour in my case. I'm pretty
sure I was only person sipping Sauternes on the Metro-North.Pears,
honey, and creme brulee. Quite round, the hot vintage shows. Tasty,
but I think I'll leave my few bottles for a few years to see if it
develops more complexity (though with the lower acidity I don't think
this is a real long-term cellar candidate). B+

Really quite a fun night. Several wines I loved, and only the Sabon
wouldn't pass the "I wouldn't mind on my dinner table" test. Thanks to
Patrick for organizing, Ramon for initial discovery of restaurant, and
everyone for their vinuous contributions and their easy conversation.
Quite a variety of palates at the table, which to me makes it more fun
than universal agreement.

Grade disclaimer: I'm a very easy grader, basically A is an excellent
wine, B a good wine, C mediocre. Anything below C means I wouldn't
drink at a party where it was only choice. Furthermore, I offer no
promises of objectivity, accuracy, and certainly not of consistency.

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Old 15-12-2008, 02:46 PM posted to alt.food.wine
JT JT is offline
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Default Northern and Southern Rhones in Midtown


1995 Beaucastel Chateauneuf-du-Pape
Showing fairly young, big dark fruits, light tannins. ok acidity. Good
length, depth, develops in glass a lot. I enjoy this and think it has
a long future. A-


What is it with Rhones, we all seem to be tasting them at the moment.

BTW, big article about brett in latest Decanter.
Best quote from Pellett, at Pepper Bridge in Walla Walla Washington/
"Brett is something I do not mind in other peoples wine,I just don't want it
in mine"

see my note from last year
1995, amazing depth,, sweetshop, leather and pepper, mouthful of fruit,
alcohol,tannins, not come together, rather austere. Undecided as to the
future.

I could not decide whether it was a long liver, so jury out at moment

JT


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Old 15-12-2008, 05:04 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default TN: Northern and Southern Rhones in Midtown

DaleW wrote:

Wow! What a tasting, Dale. Some comments follow:

1997 Chave Hermitage Blanc
Honied and a little oily, crisp, fresh, good tropical and pit fruits,
very good length. A-


You have gone on record as saying that you don't get white Rhone.
Anything in this wine to change your opinion?



1995 Beaucastel Chateauneuf-du-Pape
Showing fairly young, big dark fruits, light tannins. ok acidity. Good
length, depth, develops in glass a lot. I enjoy this and think it has
a long future. A-

1995 Pegau "Cuvee Reserve" Chateauneuf-du-Pape
Big (BIG) sweet red fruits, iodine, a little pepper. Approaches jammy
at times. Some others liked more than I. B


'95 is an enigmatic year in the S Rhone. I have yet to open any of
mine, contenting myself with the earlier years still lingering in my
cellar while reading about the experiences of others. From what I've
read, some are of the opinion that '95s are falling apart and will never
develop in a positive direction, whereas others feel that they just need
more time to develop. I haven't had the '95 Pegau since tasting it in
the cellar of the Domaine. As you know, I am a big fan of their wines,
and what I recall was a highly structured, classic CdP of fairly large
proportions. I am surprised to see the term "jammy" applied to this
wine, but we do tend to part company a bit in assessing CdP.

1996 Chapoutier Cornas
I'm not a huge Chapoutier fan, but like the nose on this- nice herbs
and spices over red fruit. On the palate it's a bit flat, however. B/
B-


We have a bottle of this in the cellar, purchased in their tasting room
in '98. At that time, it struck me as fairly New World in focus, as
befits a Rhone Valley winery with a Napa-esque tasting room (and
Parker's books for sale) in Tain. Putting on your Karnak the
Magnificent hat, do you think that this wine is likely to get any better
with age?


1998 Verset Cornas
Lively nose with flowers, olives, bacon fat and red fruits. On the
palate the fruit profile is darker, but great (balanced) acidity
enlivens the whole package. Tannins are mostly integrated,but this
could age a long time more on these acids. Just a lovely bottle, my
WOTN. A


No surprises here. I've been going through some of M. Verset's mid-'80s
wines, and they are a consistent treat to drink. I regret that he makes
so little wine these days, but at 90+ I suppose he's earned the right to
relax ;-)


1998 Jamet Cote Rotie
This rivalled the Verset for my WOTN. Lovely, muscular and young. A
little hint of animal fur - maybe a touch of brett, but at my "adds
spice" level, not intrusive at all. There's leather, coffee, and
roasted gamebird notes, a nice balance of acidity and tannins, miles
to go but quite charming now. A/A-


Again, no surprises. I had this wine a year or two ago, and even though
it was badly corked there was a marvelous wine underneath. From what
I've read, the Jamet brothers have lost their way (or gone to the Dark
Side) in recent years, which is a shame if true.

Thanks for the great notes.

Mark Lipton

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Old 15-12-2008, 07:24 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Northern and Southern Rhones in Midtown

On Dec 15, 9:46�am, "JT" wrote:
1995 Beaucastel Chateauneuf-du-Pape
Showing fairly young, big dark fruits, light tannins. ok acidity. Good
length, depth, develops in glass a lot. I enjoy this and think it has
a long future. �A-

What is it with Rhones, we all seem to be tasting them at the moment.

BTW, big article about brett in latest Decanter.
Best quote from Pellett, at Pepper Bridge in Walla Walla Washington/
"Brett is something I do not mind in other peoples wine,I just don't want it
in mine"

see my note from last year
1995, amazing depth,, sweetshop, leather and pepper, mouthful of fruit,
alcohol,tannins, not come together, rather austere. Undecided as to the
future.

I could not decide whether it was a long liver, so jury out at moment

JT


Comments on this on various websites seem to be all over the place,
from inapproachable to dying!
Viva la difference!
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Old 15-12-2008, 07:37 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default TN: Northern and Southern Rhones in Midtown

On Dec 15, 12:04�pm, Mark Lipton wrote:

1997 Chave Hermitage Blanc
Honied and a little oily, crisp, fresh, �good tropical and pit fruits,
very good length. A-


You have gone on record as saying that you don't get white Rhone.
Anything in this wine to change your opinion?


Well, I don't usually like white CdP or its little brothers, nor
Condrieu or St Joseph blanc in the North. I'm more likely to enjoy
white Hermitage, but I think if you check my past pronouncements I
admit that, but say I can't afford them. Which $100+ Chaves won't
change.

..
1995 Pegau �"Cuvee Reserve" Chateauneuf-du-Pape

�I am surprised to see the term "jammy" applied to this
wine, but we do tend to part company a bit in assessing CdP.

We should get you together with the real Jay Miller. I think he called
this and all 3 '01s to have "rotting plums" (as he experiences ripe/
overripe Grenache). Just wish I had my phone camera out when he tasted
the Sabon, face was priceless.

1996 Chapoutier Cornas

�Putting on your Karnak the
Magnificent hat, do you think that this wine is likely to get any better
with age?

It seemed a little tired/flat, I personally wouldn't hold.

1998 Jamet Cote Rotie

�From what
I've read, the Jamet brothers have lost their way (or gone to the Dark
Side) in recent years, which is a shame if true.


Sad indeed (if true)


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Old 16-12-2008, 11:42 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default TN: Northern and Southern Rhones in Midtown


"Mark Lipton" ha scritto nel messaggio
...

Again, no surprises. I had this wine a year or two ago, and even though
it was badly corked there was a marvelous wine underneath.


Are you joking?
How can you recognize a good wine (sorry, even marvelous) when it's "badly"
corked?

Only if you opened a second "good" one you may say so.

Ciao, A.M.




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Old 16-12-2008, 11:58 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default TN: Northern and Southern Rhones in Midtown

Anna Maria wrote:
"Mark Lipton" ha scritto nel messaggio
...
Again, no surprises. I had this wine a year or two ago, and even though
it was badly corked there was a marvelous wine underneath.


Are you joking?
How can you recognize a good wine (sorry, even marvelous) when it's "badly"
corked?

Only if you opened a second "good" one you may say so.


The same way that I can tell that I like Beethoven's Ninth Symphony even
though there's a jackhammer making a loud noise next door to me. TCA
produces a musty, off flavor that ruins the experience for me, but it
doesn't (always) obliterate the other flavors. I could perceive the
fruit, animal and mineral notes that I value in N Rhone Syrah, though I
never drank a drop of the wine because of the reek of TCA. It is true
that TCA also produces flat, "fruit scalped" wines, so it is a testament
to the quality of this wine that I was able to get as much as I did
despite its taint.

Mark Lipton

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