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Old 27-01-2008, 07:18 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Opening a Wine Store - any store owners out there to share theexperience?

My dream is to open a wine store (wine only, not a generic liquor
store) at some point in the future.
I would like to know if there are store owners in the group who would
like to share their experiences.
Was it worth it opening the store? Is it still worth it? Pitfalls? How
to get figure out the numbers for a business plan? Any information is
helpful.

Thank you,

Andre
http://www.winefornewbies.com/

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Old 27-01-2008, 07:33 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Opening a Wine Store - any store owners out there to share theexperience?

On Jan 27, 1:18 pm, Wine For Newbies
wrote:
My dream is to open a wine store (wine only, not a generic liquor
store) at some point in the future.
I would like to know if there are store owners in the group who would
like to share their experiences.
Was it worth it opening the store? Is it still worth it? Pitfalls? How
to get figure out the numbers for a business plan? Any information is
helpful.



From a customer's viewpoint, I would strongly encourage you to include
a few quality beverages that may be served before, with, or after a
meal. Depending on what country you are in, these might include
Cognac, Armagnc, fruit eau-de-vie such as Framboise, perhaps a few
quality liquors. In other words, I would suggest a one-stop for buying
what you need for a dinner. If customers are forced to go to another
store to buy Cognac, etc they need for a meal, they may find it more
convenient to buy their wine at the other store also.

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Old 27-01-2008, 07:38 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Posts: 12
Default Opening a Wine Store - any store owners out there to share theexperience?

On Jan 27, 2:33 pm, cwdjrxyz wrote:
On Jan 27, 1:18 pm, Wine For Newbies
wrote:

My dream is to open a wine store (wine only, not a generic liquor
store) at some point in the future.
I would like to know if there are store owners in the group who would
like to share their experiences.
Was it worth it opening the store? Is it still worth it? Pitfalls? How
to get figure out the numbers for a business plan? Any information is
helpful.


From a customer's viewpoint, I would strongly encourage you to include
a few quality beverages that may be served before, with, or after a
meal. Depending on what country you are in, these might include
Cognac, Armagnc, fruit eau-de-vie such as Framboise, perhaps a few
quality liquors. In other words, I would suggest a one-stop for buying
what you need for a dinner. If customers are forced to go to another
store to buy Cognac, etc they need for a meal, they may find it more
convenient to buy their wine at the other store also.


That makes sense. I just don't want to fall into opening a liquor
store that looks cheap.
Thank you,

Andre
http://www.winefornewbies.com/
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Old 28-01-2008, 12:00 AM posted to alt.food.wine
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Posts: 1,930
Default Opening a Wine Store - any store owners out there to share theexperience?

On Jan 27, 2:38�pm, Wine For Newbies
wrote:
On Jan 27, 2:33 pm, cwdjrxyz wrote:





On Jan 27, 1:18 pm, Wine For Newbies
wrote:


My dream is to open a wine store (wine only, not a generic liquor
store) at some point in the future.
I would like to know if there are store owners in the group who would
like to share their experiences.
Was it worth it opening the store? Is it still worth it? Pitfalls? How
to get figure out the numbers for a business plan? Any information is
helpful.


From a customer's viewpoint, I would strongly encourage you to include
a few quality beverages that may be served before, with, or after a
meal. Depending on what country you are in, these might include
Cognac, Armagnc, fruit eau-de-vie such as Framboise, perhaps a few
quality liquors. In other words, I would suggest a one-stop for buying
what you need for a dinner. If customers are forced to go to another
store to buy Cognac, etc they need for a meal, they may find it more
convenient to buy their wine at the other store also.


That makes sense. I just don't want to fall into opening a liquor
store that looks cheap.
Thank you,

Andrehttp://www.winefornewbies.com/- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


It would help to know where you are located. With direct shipping and
easy internet access we're seeing a change in the retail wine store
business. As a distributor we noted a 14% decrease in sales to retail
outlets in 2007 in revenue but a small increase in volume and analysis
of those numbers showed an increase in sales of moderately priced
French, Italian and German wines and a decrease in sales of domestic
value wines. We also noted that 14 retail wine stores closed in Ohio
and Kentucky in 2007. I personally knew four of those store owners
and all of them closed due to downward margin pressure from larger
players and internet sales and increased overhead. The bottom line is
that high end, allocated wines are not making it into the hands of the
small retailer and it's hard to make a living selling wines priced at
under $20 bottle by bottle. Low end wines require large volumes and
it's hard to compete against WHole Foods, Costco, etc in that market
given the advertising budget and marketing power of the larger
players.
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Old 28-01-2008, 01:07 AM posted to alt.food.wine
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 12
Default Opening a Wine Store - any store owners out there to share theexperience?

On Jan 27, 7:00 pm, "Bi!!" wrote:
On Jan 27, 2:38�pm, Wine For Newbies
wrote:



On Jan 27, 2:33 pm, cwdjrxyz wrote:


On Jan 27, 1:18 pm, Wine For Newbies
wrote:


My dream is to open a wine store (wine only, not a generic liquor
store) at some point in the future.
I would like to know if there are store owners in the group who would
like to share their experiences.
Was it worth it opening the store? Is it still worth it? Pitfalls? How
to get figure out the numbers for a business plan? Any information is
helpful.


From a customer's viewpoint, I would strongly encourage you to include
a few quality beverages that may be served before, with, or after a
meal. Depending on what country you are in, these might include
Cognac, Armagnc, fruit eau-de-vie such as Framboise, perhaps a few
quality liquors. In other words, I would suggest a one-stop for buying
what you need for a dinner. If customers are forced to go to another
store to buy Cognac, etc they need for a meal, they may find it more
convenient to buy their wine at the other store also.


That makes sense. I just don't want to fall into opening a liquor
store that looks cheap.
Thank you,


Andrehttp://www.winefornewbies.com/-Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


It would help to know where you are located. With direct shipping and
easy internet access we're seeing a change in the retail wine store
business. As a distributor we noted a 14% decrease in sales to retail
outlets in 2007 in revenue but a small increase in volume and analysis
of those numbers showed an increase in sales of moderately priced
French, Italian and German wines and a decrease in sales of domestic
value wines. We also noted that 14 retail wine stores closed in Ohio
and Kentucky in 2007. I personally knew four of those store owners
and all of them closed due to downward margin pressure from larger
players and internet sales and increased overhead. The bottom line is
that high end, allocated wines are not making it into the hands of the
small retailer and it's hard to make a living selling wines priced at
under $20 bottle by bottle. Low end wines require large volumes and
it's hard to compete against WHole Foods, Costco, etc in that market
given the advertising budget and marketing power of the larger
players.


Thank you for your very helpful info. I live in New York, but I don't
believe opening a store in Manhattan will be an option, considering
the exorbitant costs in the city.
I do plan on taking a more high-end approach, so your feedback also
helps me consolidate my idea a little better.
I noticed some new stores popping up around Manhattan, but mostly they
have a different and fresh approach to wine selling. They are clean-
looking, with one single bottle of each wine on display, good lighting
and excellent customer service. I do hope there is still space in the
market for me when I am ready.

Again, thank you.

Andre


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Old 28-01-2008, 07:23 AM posted to alt.food.wine
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,930
Default Opening a Wine Store - any store owners out there to share theexperience?

On Jan 27, 8:07*pm, Wine For Newbies
wrote:
On Jan 27, 7:00 pm, "Bi!!" wrote:





On Jan 27, 2:38�pm, Wine For Newbies
wrote:


On Jan 27, 2:33 pm, cwdjrxyz wrote:


On Jan 27, 1:18 pm, Wine For Newbies
wrote:


My dream is to open a wine store (wine only, not a generic liquor
store) at some point in the future.
I would like to know if there are store owners in the group who would
like to share their experiences.
Was it worth it opening the store? Is it still worth it? Pitfalls? How
to get figure out the numbers for a business plan? Any information is
helpful.


From a customer's viewpoint, I would strongly encourage you to include
a few quality beverages that may be served before, with, or after a
meal. Depending on what country you are in, these might include
Cognac, Armagnc, fruit eau-de-vie such as Framboise, perhaps a few
quality liquors. In other words, I would suggest a one-stop for buying
what you need for a dinner. If customers are forced to go to another
store to buy Cognac, etc they need for a meal, they may find it more
convenient to buy their wine at the other store also.


That makes sense. I just don't want to fall into opening a liquor
store that looks cheap.
Thank you,


Andrehttp://www.winefornewbies.com/-Hidequoted text -


- Show quoted text -


It would help to know where you are located. *With direct shipping and
easy internet access we're seeing a change in the retail wine store
business. *As a distributor we noted a 14% decrease in sales to retail
outlets in 2007 in revenue but a small increase in volume and analysis
of those numbers showed an increase in sales of *moderately priced
French, Italian and German wines and a decrease in sales of domestic
value wines. *We also noted that 14 retail wine stores closed in Ohio
and Kentucky in 2007. *I personally knew four of those store owners
and all of them closed due to downward margin pressure from larger
players and internet sales and increased overhead. *The bottom line is
that high end, allocated wines are not making it into the hands of the
small retailer and it's hard to make a living selling wines priced at
under $20 bottle by bottle. *Low end wines require large volumes and
it's hard to compete against WHole Foods, Costco, etc in that market
given the advertising budget and marketing power of the larger
players.


Thank you for your very helpful info. I live in New York, but I don't
believe opening a store in Manhattan will be an option, considering
the exorbitant costs in the city.
I do plan on taking a more high-end approach, so your feedback also
helps me consolidate my idea a little better.
I noticed some new stores popping up around Manhattan, but mostly they
have a different and fresh approach to wine selling. They are clean-
looking, with one single bottle of each wine on display, good lighting
and excellent customer service. I do hope there is still space in the
market for me when I am ready.

Again, thank you.

Andre- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Good luck.
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Old 28-01-2008, 03:28 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 12
Default Opening a Wine Store - any store owners out there to share theexperience?

On Jan 28, 2:23 am, "Bi!!" wrote:
On Jan 27, 8:07 pm, Wine For Newbies
wrote:



On Jan 27, 7:00 pm, "Bi!!" wrote:


On Jan 27, 2:38�pm, Wine For Newbies
wrote:


On Jan 27, 2:33 pm, cwdjrxyz wrote:


On Jan 27, 1:18 pm, Wine For Newbies
wrote:


My dream is to open a wine store (wine only, not a generic liquor
store) at some point in the future.
I would like to know if there are store owners in the group who would
like to share their experiences.
Was it worth it opening the store? Is it still worth it? Pitfalls? How
to get figure out the numbers for a business plan? Any information is
helpful.


From a customer's viewpoint, I would strongly encourage you to include
a few quality beverages that may be served before, with, or after a
meal. Depending on what country you are in, these might include
Cognac, Armagnc, fruit eau-de-vie such as Framboise, perhaps a few
quality liquors. In other words, I would suggest a one-stop for buying
what you need for a dinner. If customers are forced to go to another
store to buy Cognac, etc they need for a meal, they may find it more
convenient to buy their wine at the other store also.


That makes sense. I just don't want to fall into opening a liquor
store that looks cheap.
Thank you,


Andrehttp://www.winefornewbies.com/-Hidequotedtext -


- Show quoted text -


It would help to know where you are located. With direct shipping and
easy internet access we're seeing a change in the retail wine store
business. As a distributor we noted a 14% decrease in sales to retail
outlets in 2007 in revenue but a small increase in volume and analysis
of those numbers showed an increase in sales of moderately priced
French, Italian and German wines and a decrease in sales of domestic
value wines. We also noted that 14 retail wine stores closed in Ohio
and Kentucky in 2007. I personally knew four of those store owners
and all of them closed due to downward margin pressure from larger
players and internet sales and increased overhead. The bottom line is
that high end, allocated wines are not making it into the hands of the
small retailer and it's hard to make a living selling wines priced at
under $20 bottle by bottle. Low end wines require large volumes and
it's hard to compete against WHole Foods, Costco, etc in that market
given the advertising budget and marketing power of the larger
players.


Thank you for your very helpful info. I live in New York, but I don't
believe opening a store in Manhattan will be an option, considering
the exorbitant costs in the city.
I do plan on taking a more high-end approach, so your feedback also
helps me consolidate my idea a little better.
I noticed some new stores popping up around Manhattan, but mostly they
have a different and fresh approach to wine selling. They are clean-
looking, with one single bottle of each wine on display, good lighting
and excellent customer service. I do hope there is still space in the
market for me when I am ready.


Again, thank you.


Andre- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


Good luck.


Thank you.
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Old 28-01-2008, 10:54 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 9
Default Opening a Wine Store - any store owners out there to share the experience?

In article 51a70f9f-5050-4610-9d27-61d16f83d894
@z17g2000hsg.googlegroups.com, says...
My dream is to open a wine store (wine only, not a generic liquor
store) at some point in the future.
I would like to know if there are store owners in the group who would
like to share their experiences.
Was it worth it opening the store? Is it still worth it? Pitfalls? How
to get figure out the numbers for a business plan? Any information is
helpful.

Thank you,

Andre
http://www.winefornewbies.com/

We had a wine shop open near by that has done well from what I can tell.

His outlook on the shop is to not carry wines that can be bought in the
local food stores, have wine that spans the price range of $10 to $279
and do in-store tastings of almost any wine he carries. There are some
expections to that of course.

We have a lot of fun there and have expanded our selection because of
the tastings. I have a hard time justifing spending $50 on a bottle of
wine when I don't know if I will like it. That's not a problem any more
as long as I go to this shop!


--
Mike

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

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Old 29-01-2008, 12:40 AM posted to alt.food.wine
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Posts: 49
Default Opening a Wine Store - any store owners out there to share the experience?


"Wine For Newbies" wrote in message
...
My dream is to open a wine store (wine only, not a generic liquor
store) at some point in the future.
I would like to know if there are store owners in the group who would
like to share their experiences.
Was it worth it opening the store? Is it still worth it? Pitfalls? How
to get figure out the numbers for a business plan? Any information is
helpful.

Thank you,

Andre
http://www.winefornewbies.com/


I am not in the wine business, but know many who are. I live in Connecticut
and they let me see the Connecticut Beverage Journal--the monthly price book
from distributors to retail. The margins are so low here you have to sell a
boat-load of wine to make some money. Amity Wine is one of these "big box"
shops. But here near Yale there is one shop, The Wine Thief, that caters to
the academic community. They sell some high end beers, high end aperitifs,
but find some great wine buys between 10 and 20 dollars. They focus on
regular customers and referrals. And wines you will not find anyplace else.
They also get some nice allocations. They now have two shops here in New
Haven. You might want to get in touch with Karl Ronne and ask for some
advice. Give him a call..


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Old 31-01-2008, 02:52 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Opening a Wine Store - any store owners out there to share theexperience?

On Jan 28, 7:40 pm, "Evan Keel" wrote:
"Wine For Newbies" wrote in ...

My dream is to open a wine store (wine only, not a generic liquor
store) at some point in the future.
I would like to know if there are store owners in the group who would
like to share their experiences.
Was it worth it opening the store? Is it still worth it? Pitfalls? How
to get figure out the numbers for a business plan? Any information is
helpful.


Thank you,


Andre
http://www.winefornewbies.com/


I am not in the wine business, but know many who are. I live in Connecticut
and they let me see the Connecticut Beverage Journal--the monthly price book
from distributors to retail. The margins are so low here you have to sell a
boat-load of wine to make some money. Amity Wine is one of these "big box"
shops. But here near Yale there is one shop, The Wine Thief, that caters to
the academic community. They sell some high end beers, high end aperitifs,
but find some great wine buys between 10 and 20 dollars. They focus on
regular customers and referrals. And wines you will not find anyplace else.
They also get some nice allocations. They now have two shops here in New
Haven. You might want to get in touch with Karl Ronne and ask for some
advice. Give him a call..


Thank you, Evan.
The comments about the low margin is scaring me a little (a lot, to be
honest).
I will keep your suggestion to call Karl Ronne in mind for when I am
more prepared. At this stage everything is very up in the air with me.


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Old 31-01-2008, 02:53 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Opening a Wine Store - any store owners out there to share theexperience?

On Jan 28, 5:54 pm, Mike Miller wrote:
In article 51a70f9f-5050-4610-9d27-61d16f83d894
@z17g2000hsg.googlegroups.com, says... My dream is to open a wine store (wine only, not a generic liquor
store) at some point in the future.
I would like to know if there are store owners in the group who would
like to share their experiences.
Was it worth it opening the store? Is it still worth it? Pitfalls? How
to get figure out the numbers for a business plan? Any information is
helpful.


Thank you,


Andre
http://www.winefornewbies.com/


We had a wine shop open near by that has done well from what I can tell.

His outlook on the shop is to not carry wines that can be bought in the
local food stores, have wine that spans the price range of $10 to $279
and do in-store tastings of almost any wine he carries. There are some
expections to that of course.

We have a lot of fun there and have expanded our selection because of
the tastings. I have a hard time justifing spending $50 on a bottle of
wine when I don't know if I will like it. That's not a problem any more
as long as I go to this shop!

--
Mike

--
Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com


HI Mike.
My main idea is to allow customers to taste every single wine
available at the store. I do believe not tasting the wine keeps people
from buying whatever they don't know.
Thanks for the tip.

Andre
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Old 31-01-2008, 03:42 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Opening a Wine Store - any store owners out there to share theexperience?

Wine For Newbies wrote:


My main idea is to allow customers to taste every single wine
available at the store. I do believe not tasting the wine keeps people
from buying whatever they don't know.
Thanks for the tip.


Andre,
I am not a retailer, but as a consumer I can tell you that you'd
have to invest in a large-scale wine preservation system to do what you
want. It makes no sense to taste all your wines if they are going to
oxidize quickly and not show well after a day or two (and too expensive
to open up a new bottle of each wine every day). I like the idea,
though. I've been to several retailers that have "stations" that
dispense wine scattered throughout the sto you purchase a card that
then can be placed in the station to dispense a small pour of wine into
your glass. It's a very flexible system, but rather impersonal.

Mark Lipton

--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.hostexcellence.com
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Old 01-02-2008, 07:32 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Opening a Wine Store - any store owners out there to share theexperience?

On Jan 31, 10:42�am, Mark Lipton wrote:
Wine For Newbies wrote:
My main idea is to allow customers to taste every single wine
available at the store. I do believe not tasting the wine keeps people
from buying whatever they don't know.
Thanks for the tip.


Andre,
� � I am not a retailer, but as a consumer I can tell you that you'd
have to invest in a large-scale wine preservation system to do what you
want. �It makes no sense to taste all your wines if they are going to
oxidize quickly and not show well after a day or two (and too expensive
to open up a new bottle of each wine every day). �I like the idea,
though. �I've been to several retailers that have "stations" that
dispense wine scattered throughout the sto you purchase a card that
then can be placed in the station to dispense a small pour of wine into
your glass. �It's a very flexible system, but rather impersonal.

Mark Lipton

--
alt.food.wine FAQ: �http://winefaq.hostexcellence.com


Good point Mark. Additionally if you don't charge for the tasting you
will be increasing an already burdensome overhead. I think that these
plans always sound good on paper but when it's your capital at risk it
gets harder and harder to justify the expense of opening even $25
bottles just for the casual taster. The reality is that high end wine
sales have been relegated to the few old time retailers around the
country with the track record, cash flow and sales to garner a supply
of high end wines since most of them are now extremely allocated and
come with very large strings attatched to boatloads of plonk. The
business model for many of the US winemakers is to only allow
distribution to restaurants forcing the consumer to purchase wines
directly from the winery. The harsh reality is that wine is a
comodity no different from widgets, gadgets or any other consumer
product and when you stop thinking about it as such and start getting
esoteric and artsy about it, you will probably end up very unhappy
(and possibly broke) with the wine business. It's about volume and
velocity and relationships and those are all hard things to control at
times.
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Old 01-02-2008, 08:06 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Opening a Wine Store - any store owners out there to share theexperience?

Bi!! wrote:

Good point Mark. Additionally if you don't charge for the tasting you
will be increasing an already burdensome overhead. I think that these
plans always sound good on paper but when it's your capital at risk it
gets harder and harder to justify the expense of opening even $25
bottles just for the casual taster. The reality is that high end wine
sales have been relegated to the few old time retailers around the
country with the track record, cash flow and sales to garner a supply
of high end wines since most of them are now extremely allocated and
come with very large strings attatched to boatloads of plonk. The
business model for many of the US winemakers is to only allow
distribution to restaurants forcing the consumer to purchase wines
directly from the winery. The harsh reality is that wine is a
comodity no different from widgets, gadgets or any other consumer
product and when you stop thinking about it as such and start getting
esoteric and artsy about it, you will probably end up very unhappy
(and possibly broke) with the wine business. It's about volume and
velocity and relationships and those are all hard things to control at
times.


It's really the same as in book or electronics retailing: you can't
compete on volume or profit margin, or the big operations will drive
your business into the ground. Instead, you have to focus on the items
the big guys won't stock because they aren't made in large enough
quantity. My favorite wine stores have just a token stock of "trophy"
wines and instead focus on $10-$30 bottles from smaller, artisanal
producers. Returning to the original topic, the model I love is that of
Solano Cellars in Berkeley, which has a small wine bar in the back where
they pour a weekly selection of their inventory (6 red, 6 white) for
$3-6 per pour and sell small plates of food. It sounds like the Terroir
Wine Bar in San Francisco is built along similar lines.

Mark Lipton
--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.hostexcellence.com
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Old 01-02-2008, 09:32 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Opening a Wine Store - any store owners out there to share theexperience?

On Feb 1, 3:06�pm, Mark Lipton wrote:
Bi!! wrote:
Good point Mark. �Additionally if you don't charge for the tasting you
will be increasing an already burdensome overhead. �I think that these
plans always sound good on paper but when it's your capital at risk it
gets harder and harder to justify the expense of opening even $25
bottles just for the casual taster. �The reality is that high end wine
sales have been relegated to the few old time retailers around the
country with the track record, cash flow and sales to garner a supply
of high end wines since most of them are now extremely allocated and
come with very large strings attatched to boatloads of plonk. � The
business model for many of the US winemakers is to only allow
distribution to restaurants forcing the consumer to purchase wines
directly from the winery. �The harsh reality is that wine is a
comodity no different from widgets, gadgets or any other consumer
product and when you stop thinking about it as such and start getting
esoteric and artsy about it, you will probably end up very unhappy
(and possibly broke) with the wine business. �It's about volume and
velocity and relationships and those are all hard things to control at
times.


It's really the same as in book or electronics retailing: you can't
compete on volume or profit margin, or the big operations will drive
your business into the ground. �Instead, you have to focus on the items
the big guys won't stock because they aren't made in large enough
quantity. �My favorite wine stores have just a token stock of "trophy"
wines and instead focus on $10-$30 bottles from smaller, artisanal
producers. �Returning to the original topic, the model I love is that of
Solano Cellars in Berkeley, which has a small wine bar in the back where
they pour a weekly selection of their inventory (6 red, 6 white) for
$3-6 per pour and sell small plates of food. �It sounds like the Terroir
Wine Bar in San Francisco is built along similar lines.

Mark Lipton
--
alt.food.wine FAQ: �http://winefaq.hostexcellence.com- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Yes, exactly and these are the new guys on the block who are going to
make it over the long term provided that they make the right buying
choices within the $10-$30 range. I beleive that there are plenty of
wines to fill that niche but most of them are not domestic. I have
seen a few "Vino 100" franchises that are for sale that don't seem to
being to well though. I don't know if you have any in Indiana but we
have a few in Ohio.....100 wines for $25 or less. The company is a
franchise deal.


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