Scented Nectar wrote:

>>>Orthodox Jews keep their meat and dairy
>>>plates and cutlery separate. Are they all
>>>mentally ill?
>>
>>Yes.
>
>
> What other religions, groups, clubs, etc do you
> think are mentally ill?

Plenty. I think religion in general is mental illness.
The only remaining issue is determining the severity
of the affliction. With Orthodox Jewry, it's severe.
Conservative Jews have it less severely, and Reformed
less severely still. Among Christians, Unitarians are
one of the least severely afflicted, while Southern
Baptists and Wisconsin Synod Lutherans have it pretty
bad. Any Christian denomination with the word
"evangelical" in the official name of the denomination
is a collection of wackos. Presbyterians and
Congregationalists, at the upper end of the traditional
"Protestant Mainline", are less severely afflicted than
Methodists (as the Presbyterian minister said in "A
River Runs Through It": "Methodists are just Baptists
who can read.")

Within all religions, the more devout one is, the more
mentally ill one is.

To each his own, though. As long as they aren't a
menace to themselves or others, I believe in leaving
them alone. When they are evangelistic, though, like
the Jehovah's Witnesses and "vegans", I take offense.

>
> I'm sure you just got yourself killfiltered by at
> least a few lurking Jews.

Probably only observant Orthodox. Anyway, it's not as
if I care.

> Do you also believe they control the media

Yes, but not in the evil conspiratorial sense you
reflexively and stupidly think a "yes" answer implies.
Jews are about 2.2% of the U.S. population, but they
are wildly disproportionately represented at the senior
executive levels of the media, and they also dominate
the creative ranks of television and film. Jews
themselves recognize this:

David Zurawik’s new book, The Jews of Prime Time, is
like a history lesson whose protagonist is
self-censorship; it’s the story of the Jews in
Hollywood who, nine times out of ten, refuse to
write about or portray Jews. What sounds like a
Who’s Who of Television quickly changes channels
into a who’s not who.

Zurawik applies his skills as a TV critic and Ph.D.
in American Studies to answer a seemingly simple
question: In an industry dominated by Jews, why are
there so few self-identified Jewish characters on
TV? What began as a two year project evolved into a
ten year process in which Zurawik conducted over a
hundred interviews with Jewish executives, writers,
producers, and actors working in TV land.

http://www.jbooks.com/nonfiction/NF_Crasnik.htm

Or just have a look at Neal Gabler's book, "An Empire
of Their Own: How the Jews Invented Hollywood".
Gabler is a Jew.

> and are trying to take over the world?

No.

Scented Nectar wrote:

>>We all know what the issue is: you know I am right.
>>You know that your answers will reveal your extreme
>>leftist tilt.
>
>
> I will tell you this much. My answers would
> confuse you.

I don't think so.

> I would show righty here,
> lefty there, neutral somewhere else.

I doubt it. My guess is 80% would indicate leftism.

You're too gutless to take the test though. That's
another hallmark of the left.

Scented Nectar wrote:

>>>>We all know what the issue is: you know I am right.
>>>>You know that your answers will reveal your extreme
>>>>leftist tilt.
>>>
>>>I will tell you this much. My answers would
>>>confuse you. I would show righty here,
>>>lefty there, neutral somewhere else and ignoraant all over.....
>>
>>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^
>
>
> Why did you dishonestly change my words above?

He didn't. He honestly changed your words to reflect
reality.

"Scented Nectar" > wrote
>> Bullcrap, there is no research that establishes that anybody at any
> stage of
>> life can thrive on a vegan diet, none, specifically not this person in
>> question. Reseach at best suggests that some people can, with careful
>> attention to diet.
>
> Lots of people are thriving on it as we type.

Lots isn't everyone. You hastily concluded that any vegan experiencing FTT
*must* be doing something wrong, and I said that you have NO basis to
conclude that. Vegan diets are not suitable for everyone. There is plenty of
testimony to that effect.

>> > Who decides who's rational and who's irrational?
>>
>> I do.
>
> Only for yourself. I decide for me.

You obviously need help.

>> > That's nonsense. For some choices, input from others
>> > is helpful, but for others it's completely unnecessary.
>>
>> Input from others is AWAYS necessary. You have unfortunately just
> decided in
>> this case to discontinue accepting input. Up until the time veganism
> took
>> over your mind you were probably open to input, which underlines my
> point
>> out it's damaging effects.
>
> Golly, I better check with others before I take a dump.

You needed help at some point to learn even that.

> It took over my mind and damaged me? You're nuts!

You believe that you will be a better person after you stop consuming dairy.
That is vegan conditioning.

> If you seriously wanted anyone to consider you as
> being good 'input' you wouldn't use insults so much.

What insults? I tell you your thinking is flawed, how else can I say that?

If you are so much against insults why are you always calling me a troll?

> You also wouldn't assume that you are rational but
> others aren't. Face it, your input doesn't put out.

I don't assume it, I conclude it from your arguments then demonstrate it
logically.

>> > In the case of veganism, why would you think anyone
>> > is going to take the advise from you, a non-vegan,
>> > insulting troll on the topic of veganism?
>>
>> There is a small group of people who's desire for personal development
>> outweighs their desire to be a self-anointed dietary diety. They might
> see
>> me as insulting but they would see you as aggressively narrow-minded
> and
>> ignorant. Which one is better? A few of them have come forward, many I
>> suspect have lurked and gone away better informed.
>
> Why, you're saving the world. LOL.

Informing a few people isn't saving the world, it's a very modest
achievement.

> Are you a narcissist?

You mean an egotist? I don't think so.

> To each his own, though. As long as they aren't a
> menace to themselves or others, I believe in leaving
> them alone. When they are evangelistic, though, like
> the Jehovah's Witnesses and "vegans", I take offense.

Then why do you insult vegans who've never
bible thumped you?



--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button.

> You're too gutless to take the test though. That's
> another hallmark of the left.

What study shows that to be a hallmark of the left?




--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button.

> > Lots of people are thriving on it as we type.
>
> Lots isn't everyone. You hastily concluded that any vegan experiencing
FTT
> *must* be doing something wrong, and I said that you have NO basis to
> conclude that. Vegan diets are not suitable for everyone. There is
plenty of
> testimony to that effect.

Again, no one is forcing you to be vegan, so stop
trying to put it down. Do you really think you're
taken seriously around here, with your insults,
meat pushing, nagging...

> >> > Who decides who's rational and who's irrational?
> >>
> >> I do.
> >
> > Only for yourself. I decide for me.
>
> You obviously need help.

I guess now having good self esteem is an illness?
I'm quite content in my rational thinking.

> You believe that you will be a better person after you stop consuming
dairy.
> That is vegan conditioning.

Nonsense. I believe the health benefits are better
when vegan. Just like you used to (maybe still do).

> If you are so much against insults why are you always calling me a
troll?

You're lucky that's all you get called with the
mouth on you.

> > You also wouldn't assume that you are rational but
> > others aren't. Face it, your input doesn't put out.
>
> I don't assume it, I conclude it from your arguments then demonstrate
it
> logically.

You've never proved any of your garbage to me.




--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button.

"Scented Nectar" > wrote in message
...
>> > So, anytime someone bases their diet on health,
>> > they are really sick with this syndrome?
>>
>> No, dummy. When they harbor irrational obsessions over foods. That
>> includes veganism, which seeks to eliminate the most minute traces of
>> animal ingredients or even ingredients which MIGHT be of animal origin
>> (see below), and I would also say it includes many on low-carb diets
>> because they irrationally seek to eliminate all sources of carbs on
>> irrational, pseudoscientific grounds.
>
> You are claiming all vegans suffer from an eating
> disorder. That's ridiculous.

Saying "that's ridiculous" is not a valid form of argument.

>> >>>Gee, Dr. Batman
>> >>
>> >>Bartman.
>> >
>> > Ooo, I forgot,
>>
>> Bratman.
>
> Ooo, I forgot that only you trolls are allowed to
> mess with people's names.

Who's doing the name-calling now?

>> > What's too far for you may be not far enough
>> > to someone else. You can't decide for someone
>> > else.
>>
>> Mental health professionals can. Friends and family can, too. You seem
>> to be ignorant of the fact that eating disorders are mental in nature,
>> and that mentally ill or disordered individuals are, to varying
> degrees,
>> impaired. They don't make the best decisions for themselves while
>> they're mentally ill; that's more visibly evident when their mental
>> illness affects their physical health. That's why intervention by
> others
>> -- professionals, family, friends, and even courts if necessary -- is
>> usually required for them to get help.
>
> Veganism is not an illness.

Saying so is not a valid form of argument.

> What help is required
> when a person is healthy and happy with their
> vegan ways?

If they are obsessive, and most vegans are, they could benefit from a
priority adjustment, counselling perhaps.

> I can't imagine a court telling
> someone they can't be vegan.

Court? Illness is not a crime.

> This mental
> illness, if it really existed, would include you
> because you eat mostly vegan.

"Mostly vegan" shows that he is not obsessive, therefore does not present a
disorder. Your lack of vegan purity is simply laziness and self-indulgence,
you still believe that you *ought* to be a pure vegan.

> You do it
> for health reasons (I've seen the quote a few
> times). So, by your reasoning, you're not
> fit to decide your diet and so some meat
> eaters are going to decide it for you for
> your own good. Is that how it works? This
> new mental illness stance you're taking
> is a crock and a crutch.

Obsessiveness over food is the definition of a nervosa eating disorder.

--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button.
"Rudy Canoza" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Scented Nectar wrote:
>
> >>>>We all know what the issue is: you know I am right.
> >>>>You know that your answers will reveal your extreme
> >>>>leftist tilt.
> >>>
> >>>I will tell you this much. My answers would
> >>>confuse you. I would show righty here,
> >>>lefty there, neutral somewhere else and ignoraant all over.....
> >>
> >>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^
> >
> >
> > Why did you dishonestly change my words above?
>
> He didn't. He honestly changed your words to reflect
> reality.

A lie doesn't change the fact he edited my typing to
mean something insulting. The weird thing is how
you trolls do this in full view of everyone and somehow
think that it's not noticed who did it. It's glaring.


--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button.

I notice you snipped out my reasoned responses to your
****witted attempts at anti-semitism baiting.


Scented Nectar wrote:

>>To each his own, though. As long as they aren't a
>>menace to themselves or others, I believe in leaving
>>them alone. When they are evangelistic, though, like
>>the Jehovah's Witnesses and "vegans", I take offense.
>
>
> Then why do you insult vegans who've never
> bible thumped you?

Because they DO! "vegans" DO believe that no one
should eat meat. "veganism" is the expression of the
consumption preferences (99% dietary) of "animal rights
activists". All "vegans" believe in animal rights, and
animal rights is lurking totalitarianism.

"Scented Nectar" > wrote in message
...
>> >> We all know what the issue is: you know I am right.
>> >> You know that your answers will reveal your extreme
>> >> leftist tilt.
>> >
>> > I will tell you this much. My answers would
>> > confuse you. I would show righty here,
>> > lefty there, neutral somewhere else and ignoraant all over.....
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Why did you dishonestly change my words above?
==================
Why do you continue to snip without annotation? Dishonesty or just plain
stupidity?
besides, in case you didn't notice, I annotated the change, fool...


> Is it because you have no solid argument and
> must resort to insults? Yes.
========================
Nope. It is precise in its statement. Everything you have posted amounts
to a vast load of ignorant spew...


>
>
>
>
> --
> SN
> http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
> A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
> Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button.
>
>

"Scented Nectar" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> --
> SN
> http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
> A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
> Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button.
> "Rudy Canoza" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
>> Scented Nectar wrote:
>>
>> >>>>We all know what the issue is: you know I am right.
>> >>>>You know that your answers will reveal your extreme
>> >>>>leftist tilt.
>> >>>
>> >>>I will tell you this much. My answers would
>> >>>confuse you. I would show righty here,
>> >>>lefty there, neutral somewhere else and ignoraant all over.....
>> >>
>> >>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^
>> >
>> >
>> > Why did you dishonestly change my words above?
>>
>> He didn't. He honestly changed your words to reflect
>> reality.
>
> A lie doesn't change the fact he edited my typing to
> mean something insulting.
===================
No, truthful. If that happens to be 'mean' then that is all in your
pea-brain, killer.

The weird thing is how
> you trolls do this in full view of everyone and somehow
> think that it's not noticed who did it. It's glaring.
========================
Yes, your stupidity and willful ignorance is glaring, killer. Why don't
you try to do something about it, like learn some truth? Besides, again, I
annotated my changes, and it was completley obvious who wrote them. That
was THE point, stupid....


>
>
> --
> SN
> http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
> A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
> Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button.
>
>

"Scented Nectar" > wrote in message
...
>> > You are claiming all vegans suffer from an eating
>> > disorder. That's ridiculous.
>>
>> It isn't ridiculous. "vegans" obsess over:
>>
>> - canned black olives, because allegedly the liquid
>> contains squid ink
>>
>> - refined sugar, because it is refined using bone char
>>
>> - Worcestershire sauce, because it contains a miniscule
>> amount of
>> anchovy
>>
>> - the sharing of CLEAN kitchen utensils in households
>> in which
>> "vegans" and omnivores cohabit (because the "vegans"
>> irrationally
>> fear there might be trace molecules of animal parts
>> in pots and pans)
>>
>> Those are just four I came up with off the top of my
>> head, ALL OF WHICH are documented occurrences in
>> alt.food.vegan and/or alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian. I
>> invite readers to submit others.
>
> That's no big deal, any of the above. It's only a big
> deal to trolls who think a vegan shouldn't always
> stick to their chosen way. It doesn't harm you if
> someone keeps their dishes separate from
> yours. Get your own dishes. And why should
> you care what they eat? It's their body, not yours.

It doesn't hurt me if someone washes their own hands 25 times a day either,
but it's still an obsessive disorder. Telling us to go MYOB is not a valid
form of argument, this is a public form about vegetarianism, it's the
appropriate place to be discussing such issues. If you don't wish to discuss
them don't post your opinion to public forums.

Scented Nectar wrote:
>>>>>>>Gee, Dr. Batman
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Bartman.
>>>>>
>>>>>Ooo, I forgot,
>>>>
>>>>Bratman.
>>>
>>>Ooo, I forgot that only you trolls are allowed to
>>>mess with people's names.
>>
>>Who's doing the name-calling now?
>
>
> Sorry troll, you have the honour of being much
> more foulmouthed than I. I won't ask you to
> relinquish that crown.
>
>
>>>What help is required
>>>when a person is healthy and happy with their
>>>vegan ways?
>>
>>If they are obsessive, and most vegans are, they could benefit from a
>>priority adjustment, counselling perhaps.
>
>
> No, not an obsessive person. Just a happy
> and healthy vegan who sticks to her very
> nourishing diet. What counselling
> does she need? Eat meat or you'll
> die?
>
> Obsessiveness over food is the definition of a nervosa eating disorder.
>
> Anorexia is the nervosa illness and bears no connection to
> whether or not the patient is vegan or meat eater.
>
> Orthorexia is an unrecognized medical condition, whereby
> any interest in the health benefits of one's food

No, stop lying. Not "any" interest; extreme, obsessive
interest, to the point where the interest causes
interference in one's social relations, anxiety, and
other symptoms.

> >> >>>Gee, Dr. Batman
> >> >>
> >> >>Bartman.
> >> >
> >> > Ooo, I forgot,
> >>
> >> Bratman.
> >
> > Ooo, I forgot that only you trolls are allowed to
> > mess with people's names.
>
> Who's doing the name-calling now?

Sorry troll, you have the honour of being much
more foulmouthed than I. I won't ask you to
relinquish that crown.

> > What help is required
> > when a person is healthy and happy with their
> > vegan ways?
>
> If they are obsessive, and most vegans are, they could benefit from a
> priority adjustment, counselling perhaps.

No, not an obsessive person. Just a happy
and healthy vegan who sticks to her very
nourishing diet. What counselling
does she need? Eat meat or you'll
die?

Obsessiveness over food is the definition of a nervosa eating disorder.

Anorexia is the nervosa illness and bears no connection to
whether or not the patient is vegan or meat eater.

Orthorexia is an unrecognized medical condition, whereby
any interest in the health benefits of one's food is seen
as an illness. There's a good reason it's an unaccepted
term medically.


--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button.

"Scented Nectar" > wrote in message
...
>> > Lots of people are thriving on it as we type.
>>
>> Lots isn't everyone. You hastily concluded that any vegan experiencing
> FTT
>> *must* be doing something wrong, and I said that you have NO basis to
>> conclude that. Vegan diets are not suitable for everyone. There is
> plenty of
>> testimony to that effect.
>
> Again, no one is forcing you to be vegan, so stop
> trying to put it down. Do you really think you're
> taken seriously around here, with your insults,
> meat pushing, nagging...
====================
Do you really think that your blantant hypocrisy is taken seriously by
anyone? Afterll, you prove with each inane post you make that animals mean
absolutly nothing to you. It's all about your simple rule for your simple
mind, killer.


>
>> >> > Who decides who's rational and who's irrational?
>> >>
>> >> I do.
>> >
>> > Only for yourself. I decide for me.
>>
>> You obviously need help.
>
> I guess now having good self esteem is an illness?
> I'm quite content in my rational thinking.
> =====================
Hardly, killer.



>> You believe that you will be a better person after you stop consuming
> dairy.
>> That is vegan conditioning.
>
> Nonsense. I believe the health benefits are better
> when vegan. Just like you used to (maybe still do).
====================
Again, vegan isn't about your health, fool.

>
>> If you are so much against insults why are you always calling me a
> troll?
>
> You're lucky that's all you get called with the
> mouth on you.
>
>> > You also wouldn't assume that you are rational but
>> > others aren't. Face it, your input doesn't put out.
>>
>> I don't assume it, I conclude it from your arguments then demonstrate
> it
>> logically.
>
> You've never proved any of your garbage to me.
=====================
ROTFLMAO Because you SNIP it all out and run, killer!!

>
>
>
>
> --
> SN
> http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
> A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
> Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button.
>
>

> >>To each his own, though. As long as they aren't a
> >>menace to themselves or others, I believe in leaving
> >>them alone. When they are evangelistic, though, like
> >>the Jehovah's Witnesses and "vegans", I take offense.
> >
> >
> > Then why do you insult vegans who've never
> > bible thumped you?
>
> Because they DO! "vegans" DO believe that no one
> should eat meat. "veganism" is the expression of the
> consumption preferences (99% dietary) of "animal rights
> activists". All "vegans" believe in animal rights, and
> animal rights is lurking totalitarianism.

Have I ever bible thumped you? Have I ever
told you what you MUST ABSOLUTELY
believe? Gee who does that reming me of?

Above you claim that 99% of ARAs are vegan.
Are you assuming from this that all vegans are
ARAs? You'd be wrong.


--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button.

CHANGED QUOTE:
> >> >>>I will tell you this much. My answers would
> >> >>>confuse you. I would show righty here,
> >> >>>lefty there, neutral somewhere else and ignoraant all over.....
> >> >>
> >> >>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^

> The weird thing is how
> > you trolls do this in full view of everyone and somehow
> > think that it's not noticed who did it. It's glaring.
> ========================
> Yes, your stupidity and willful ignorance is glaring, killer. Why
don't
> you try to do something about it, like learn some truth? Besides,
again, I
> annotated my changes, and it was completley obvious who wrote them.
That
> was THE point, stupid....

Where did you annotate the changes and take
credit for them? You typed them into my quote
with nothing to indicate it was you. In fact it was
on purpose made to look like me. Is this and
spitting insults all you have?




--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button.

In article . net>,
Rudy Canoza > wrote:

> Ron wrote:
>
> > In article et>,
> > Rudy Canoza > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Ron wrote:
> >>
> >>>In article >,
> >>> usual suspect > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>You didn't answer my question. If they share no complicity in the deaths
> >>>>stemming from their own consumption, why should they have any objection
> >>>>to eating meat?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Maybe you didn't like the answer.
> >>
> >>You didn't give one.
> >>
> >>
> >>>In the same way, that one might feel they were acting wrongly if they
> >>>were hungry and happened across human meat that they didn't kill.
> >>
> >>Not the eating, assmunch. The issue is the killing.
> >
> >
> > Usual's post was regarding the eating.
>
> No, it wasn't. It was about the recognition, by the
> "vegans" themselves, that they would be complicit in
> the deaths of animals if they were to eat meat.
>
> Once again, you get it wrong, due to being a lazy sophist.

Once again, you fail to see the logical fallacy that the vegan AND the
meat eater uses when they substitute cause for coincidence.

> It doesn't hurt me if someone washes their own hands 25 times a day
either,
> but it's still an obsessive disorder. Telling us to go MYOB is not a
valid
> form of argument, this is a public form about vegetarianism, it's the
> appropriate place to be discussing such issues. If you don't wish to
discuss
> them don't post your opinion to public forums.

Your desire to insult vegetarians by saying they
have this and that disease, just shows you for
the troll you are. Show me the study that says
vegans and/or vegetarians suffer more OCD
then the rest of the world.


--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button.

> > Orthorexia is an unrecognized medical condition, whereby
> > any interest in the health benefits of one's food
>
> No, stop lying. Not "any" interest; extreme, obsessive
> interest, to the point where the interest causes
> interference in one's social relations, anxiety, and
> other symptoms.

You claim though that all vegans suffer from this. You're
making it up as you go along. First moral absolutes, then
orthorexia, then Obsessive Compulsive Disorder!! Make
up your mind already. Or maybe you claim all of the above?


--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button.

In article >,
"Scented Nectar" > wrote:

> You are trying to put forth the wrong notion
> that being vegan = having an eating disorder.
>
> We'll never agree on that. In fact it makes
> me think you hate vegans more than ever.
> You have the need to think of them as being
> sick. Guess what. They're not sick.

It's more a case of attempting to shame and humiliate vegans to behave
in a manner consistent with how they eat.

I eat meat some of the time. I usually make meat choices because I sense
that something is lacking and meat products usually do the trick.

> > Nonsense. I believe the health benefits are better
> > when vegan. Just like you used to (maybe still do).
> ====================
> Again, vegan isn't about your health, fool.

You better talk to your less gruff buddies. They now
think every vegan has a mental disease because
they all obsess about health, according to them.




--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button.

In article >, "Dutch" >
wrote:

> Bullcrap, there is no research that establishes that anybody at any stage of
> life can thrive on a vegan diet, none, specifically not this person in
> question. Reseach at best suggests that some people can, with careful
> attention to diet.

Why would it? Most of the people conducting research have their own
biases and motivations to contend with. It is much easier to produce
scientific information that will be consistent with other opinions
rather than generating new and interesting conclusions.

I'd love to see some research authored by acknowledged vegans. I would
also like to see research acknowledged when designed by meat eaters.

> > You are trying to put forth the wrong notion
> > that being vegan = having an eating disorder.
> >
> > We'll never agree on that. In fact it makes
> > me think you hate vegans more than ever.
> > You have the need to think of them as being
> > sick. Guess what. They're not sick.
>
> It's more a case of attempting to shame and humiliate vegans to behave
> in a manner consistent with how they eat.
>
> I eat meat some of the time. I usually make meat choices because I
sense
> that something is lacking and meat products usually do the trick.

You are free to choose your life, your needs, your wants.
I don't see how your meat eating infringes on my non-
meat eating. I may have an unrealistic wish that the
whole world was vegan, but we can all dream
whatever we want.

I agree that the trolls are trying to shame and
humiliate. I guess when logic fails them, they've
got to do something quick and insults come in
handy. The trolls expect the impossible. I
can't singlehandedly fix all farm cds, all
transportation woes etc.

No one could claim that vegetarian is the right
choice for everyone. For one thing there's too
many reasons people have for being veg. and
there's too many reasons other people have
for eating meat. My main goal in this group is
to be a provider of a recipe resource, one
that doesn't care why a person is veggie,
just gives the recipes. After I spammed
my site though, the trolls here became
very fun to play with so I stayed.


--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button.


--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button.

In article >, "Dutch" >
wrote:

> "Scented Nectar" > wrote
>
> > Guess what. ALL that's required to be a vegan is that
> > you eliminate animal products from your diet. You
> > are putting meanings in there where they just don't
> > fit.
>
> That's what vegans do. If they didn't we wouldn't be having this discussion.

I apologize for making light of this, but could you image two animals
arguing over their diets. Any preoccupation and to this degree of food
or any substance is indicative of obsessional behaviour.

In article . net>,
Rudy Canoza > wrote:

> Ron wrote:
>
> > In article >, "Dutch" >
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>"Scented Nectar" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>
> >>>>>Nope. I have no eating disorder. I'm not veggie for
> >>>>>weight reasons. My weight is an average healthy
> >>>>>one and doesn't tend to fluxuate. I'm not failing to
> >>>>>thrive as you did.
> >>>>
> >>>>And when you do???
> >>>
> >>>When? You're nuts. I'm not one of that minority
> >>>of vegans who has an eating disorder. In fact,
> >>>I'll bet the same percentage of vegans have
> >>>eating disorders as non-vegans. Just because
> >>>you had a disorder, doesn't mean all veg*ns do
> >>>too.
> >>
> >>Veganism has all the basic elements of an eating disorder. Orthorexics have
> >>an aversion to any food they deem to be not pure or healthy. When foods
> >>stops just nourishing your physical health and begins to feed psychological
> >>obsessions it becomes unhealthy and a disorder.
> >
> >
> > This is untrue.
>
> No, it is true. Obsession and compulsion are
> recognized disorders. The OBJECTS of the obsession and
> compulsion are irrelevant.
>
> > Dr. Bratman coined the term orthorexia -- a term that is
> > not recognized by the psychiatric profession, at least not yet. The term
> > does not appear in the DSM.
>
> It will.
>
> > I consider 3 meals a day an obsession.
>
> No - it is a convenient habit. It optimizes the time
> balance between eating and other activities.

It is obsessional behaviour that conforms to social conditioning. I eat
when I'm hungry. To eat any other time is indicative of some other
issues. To eat 3 meals today is foolish when my caloric needs and energy
outputs are about 1/4 of what they are on other days.

Since you mention habit, habituation leads me to think of the addict who
must get their fix at determined intervals or experience signs and
symptoms of withdrawal like anger, irritability, headaches, etc.

In article . net>,
Rudy Canoza > wrote:

> Plenty. I think religion in general is mental illness.
> The only remaining issue is determining the severity
> of the affliction.

Then you must be mentally ill, Rudy. Like the Catholic, you subscribe to
Kantian ideas of the Categorical Imperative. Like members of multiple
religions, you have no issue with criticizing homosexuals. Like the
Christians, you employ ideas of shared responsibility. Your discusions
of shared responsibility are also reminiscent of Catholic notions of the
Doctrine of Double Effect. The eating of meat is consistent with the
religious perspective of man's dominion over the animal world. The meats
that we eat are consistent with the diet of the Christian religion.

How exactly are you different than those you claim to be mentally ill
because of religion?

"Scented Nectar" > wrote

>> > Lots of people are thriving on it as we type.
>>
>> Lots isn't everyone. You hastily concluded that any vegan experiencing
> FTT
>> *must* be doing something wrong, and I said that you have NO basis to
>> conclude that. Vegan diets are not suitable for everyone. There is
> plenty of
>> testimony to that effect.
>
> Again, no one is forcing you to be vegan,

Force is irrelevant. What is relevant is your tendency to jump to
unsupportable hasty conclusions, like saying that a vegan with FTT *must* be
doing something wrong.

> so stop
> trying to put it down.

I'm not "trying", I'm succeeding.

> Do you really think you're
> taken seriously around here,

Definitely.

> with your insults,
> meat pushing, nagging...

With my rational, clear arguments.

>> >> > Who decides who's rational and who's irrational?
>> >>
>> >> I do.
>> >
>> > Only for yourself. I decide for me.
>>
>> You obviously need help.
>
> I guess now having good self esteem is an illness?
> I'm quite content in my rational thinking.

Being content with sloppy thinking is not a good thing.

>> You believe that you will be a better person after you stop consuming
> dairy.
>> That is vegan conditioning.
>
> Nonsense. I believe the health benefits are better
> when vegan. Just like you used to (maybe still do).

You think more than that. You consider yourself a moral failure to the
extent that you still consume animal products.

>> If you are so much against insults why are you always calling me a
> troll?
>
> You're lucky that's all you get called with the
> mouth on you.

You must be confusing me with someone else.

>> > You also wouldn't assume that you are rational but
>> > others aren't. Face it, your input doesn't put out.
>>
>> I don't assume it, I conclude it from your arguments then demonstrate
> it
>> logically.
>
> You've never proved any of your garbage to me.

Yes I have, you just are incapable of thinking logically.

In article >, "Dutch" >
wrote:

> "Scented Nectar" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> > You are claiming all vegans suffer from an eating
> >> > disorder. That's ridiculous.
> >>
> >> It isn't ridiculous. "vegans" obsess over:
> >>
> >> - canned black olives, because allegedly the liquid
> >> contains squid ink
> >>
> >> - refined sugar, because it is refined using bone char
> >>
> >> - Worcestershire sauce, because it contains a miniscule
> >> amount of
> >> anchovy
> >>
> >> - the sharing of CLEAN kitchen utensils in households
> >> in which
> >> "vegans" and omnivores cohabit (because the "vegans"
> >> irrationally
> >> fear there might be trace molecules of animal parts
> >> in pots and pans)
> >>
> >> Those are just four I came up with off the top of my
> >> head, ALL OF WHICH are documented occurrences in
> >> alt.food.vegan and/or alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian. I
> >> invite readers to submit others.
> >
> > That's no big deal, any of the above. It's only a big
> > deal to trolls who think a vegan shouldn't always
> > stick to their chosen way. It doesn't harm you if
> > someone keeps their dishes separate from
> > yours. Get your own dishes. And why should
> > you care what they eat? It's their body, not yours.
>
> It doesn't hurt me if someone washes their own hands 25 times a day either,
> but it's still an obsessive disorder.

Unless the desire to help becomes obsessive in and of itself.

> Telling us to go MYOB is not a valid
> form of argument, this is a public form about vegetarianism, it's the
> appropriate place to be discussing such issues. If you don't wish to discuss
> them don't post your opinion to public forums.

"Scented Nectar" > wrote in message
news
>> >> >>>Gee, Dr. Batman
>> >> >>
>> >> >>Bartman.
>> >> >
>> >> > Ooo, I forgot,
>> >>
>> >> Bratman.
>> >
>> > Ooo, I forgot that only you trolls are allowed to
>> > mess with people's names.
>>
>> Who's doing the name-calling now?
>
> Sorry troll,

Apology not accepted.

> you have the honour of being much
> more foulmouthed than I. I won't ask you to
> relinquish that crown.

Give an example of a foul insult I have used towards you.

>> > What help is required
>> > when a person is healthy and happy with their
>> > vegan ways?
>>
>> If they are obsessive, and most vegans are, they could benefit from a
>> priority adjustment, counselling perhaps.
>
> No, not an obsessive person. Just a happy
> and healthy vegan who sticks to her very
> nourishing diet. What counselling
> does she need? Eat meat or you'll
> die?

In the occasional case when a vegetarian is not obsessive he would need no
counselling.

> Obsessiveness over food is the definition of a nervosa eating disorder.
>
> Anorexia is the nervosa illness and bears no connection to
> whether or not the patient is vegan or meat eater.

Nervosa are a whole class of disorders.

> Orthorexia is an unrecognized medical condition, whereby
> any interest in the health benefits of one's food is seen
> as an illness.

That's not what it means. *Obsession* with healthy food, not simply interest
in it, is a disorder. Obsession with exercising is also a disorder, not
simply healthy exercise.

Are you this dense on prupose?

> There's a good reason it's an unaccepted
> term medically.

It's simply too recent a concept, the medical establishment changes slowly.

"Scented Nectar" > wrote

>> It happens a lot more often than you seem to think. I gave you some
>> links showing what happens, but you snipped them rather than address
> them.
>
> If someone fails to thrive, no one's forcing them
> to stay veg. I believe that a change of (veg) foods
> would fix the problem,

And when it doesn't?

> but you can disagree if you
> like. No one really gives a care.

You obviously care or you wouldn't be arguing about it.

[..]

> Iron and zinc are very easy to get in a veg. diet. Show
> me a study showing otherwise.
>
>> > but that's easy to get in vegan form (bacterially
>> > cultured).
>>
>> Stop and ask yourself why all these *fortified* vegan foods are
>> necessary when one can get the same nutrients naturally from whole
> foods
>> (including a bit of meat). You have to jump through all kinds of
>> peculiar and unnatural hoops to get the same nutrients you would on a
>> normal diet.
>
> Considering that the only meat you've consumed
> in years is your recent sushi, what do you do for
> B12? Also do you hate yourself for following a
> diet?
>
>
> --
> SN
> http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
> A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
> Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button.
>
>
>

> >> >> > Who decides who's rational and who's irrational?
> >> >>
> >> >> I do.
> >> >
> >> > Only for yourself. I decide for me.
> >>
> >> You obviously need help.
> >
> > I guess now having good self esteem is an illness?
> > I'm quite content in my rational thinking.
>
> Being content with sloppy thinking is not a good thing.

Can you prove this 'sloppy thinking'? If it
turns out to be merely your opinion rather
than an actuality, then I can dump what you
say into the correct bin.

> You think more than that. You consider yourself a moral failure to the
> extent that you still consume animal products.

I don't consider myself to be a moral failure. I'm
quite proud of what I have done, and what I am
doing, and likely what I will be doing. It's YOU
sweetie who thinks I'm a failure, not me.
Should you maybe get help for that?




--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button.

> > Sorry troll,
>
> Apology not accepted.

I didn't offer it in earnest anyway.

> > you have the honour of being much
> > more foulmouthed than I. I won't ask you to
> > relinquish that crown.
>
> Give an example of a foul insult I have used towards you.

I'm mixing you up with the 3 other main trolls.
You're actually the least insulting one, except
for insults disguised as helping eg claiming
that most vegans are obsessive., etc. You
don't actually swear too much like the others
do but your words are quite nasty just the
same. You also now want to be seen as a
helper of some kind. Don't you recognize
when someone doesn't want your abusive
form of 'help'?




--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button.

"Scented Nectar" > wrote in message
...
> CHANGED QUOTE:
>> >> >>>I will tell you this much. My answers would
>> >> >>>confuse you. I would show righty here,
>> >> >>>lefty there, neutral somewhere else and ignoraant all over.....
>> >> >>
>> >> >>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^
>
>> The weird thing is how
>> > you trolls do this in full view of everyone and somehow
>> > think that it's not noticed who did it. It's glaring.
>> ========================
>> Yes, your stupidity and willful ignorance is glaring, killer. Why
> don't
>> you try to do something about it, like learn some truth? Besides,
> again, I
>> annotated my changes, and it was completley obvious who wrote them.
> That
>> was THE point, stupid....
>
> Where did you annotate the changes and take
> credit for them? You typed them into my quote
> with nothing to indicate it was you. In fact it was
> on purpose made to look like me. Is this and
> spitting insults all you have?
======================
ROTFLMAO How'd you manage to miss that big line of up arrows, ignorant
fool? The fact is, the statement was true, is true, and will forever be
true. That's what really has you upset, right hypocrite?




>
>
>
>
> --
> SN
> http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
> A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
> Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button.
>
>

"Scented Nectar" > wrote in message
...
>> > Nonsense. I believe the health benefits are better
>> > when vegan. Just like you used to (maybe still do).
>> ====================
>> Again, vegan isn't about your health, fool.
>
> You better talk to your less gruff buddies. They now
> think every vegan has a mental disease because
> they all obsess about health, according to them.
====================
No, you aren't reading for comprehension, again.


>
>
>
>
> --
> SN
> http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
> A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
> Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button.
>
>

"Ron" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, "Dutch" >
> wrote:
>
>> "Scented Nectar" > wrote
>>
>> > Guess what. ALL that's required to be a vegan is that
>> > you eliminate animal products from your diet. You
>> > are putting meanings in there where they just don't
>> > fit.
>>
>> That's what vegans do. If they didn't we wouldn't be having this
>> discussion.
>
> I apologize for making light of this, but could you image two animals
> arguing over their diets. Any preoccupation and to this degree of food
> or any substance is indicative of obsessional behaviour.
=======================
The preoccupation you show for ignorant spew and irrational posts would be
indicative of what, pansy-boy? That you're just too stupid to keep up with
the real discussion taking place?

> ROTFLMAO How'd you manage to miss that big line of up arrows,
ignorant
> fool? The fact is, the statement was true, is true, and will
forever be
> true. That's what really has you upset, right hypocrite?

Does a big line of up arrows mean 'I changed
her words and meaning without permission'?


--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button.

"Scented Nectar" > wrote in message
...
>> ROTFLMAO How'd you manage to miss that big line of up arrows,
> ignorant
>> fool? The fact is, the statement was true, is true, and will
> forever be
>> true. That's what really has you upset, right hypocrite?
>
> Does a big line of up arrows mean 'I changed
> her words and meaning without permission'?
=======================
Permission??? LOL What a hoot!!! It points out where the truth was
added, killer. Too bad you're too stupid to see that, eh hypocrite?


>
>
> --
> SN
> http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
> A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
> Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button.
>
>

"Scented Nectar" > wrote in message
...
>> ROTFLMAO How'd you manage to miss that big line of up arrows,
> ignorant
>> fool? The fact is, the statement was true, is true, and will
> forever be
>> true. That's what really has you upset, right hypocrite?
>
> Does a big line of up arrows mean 'I changed
> her words and meaning without permission'?
=================
Besides, dishonest fool, where is *your* annotation that you snipped out
parts of a post that you are now repliying to? Oh, yeah, you haven't
figured that part out yet, have you killer?


>
>
> --
> SN
> http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
> A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
> Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button.
>
>