Hi everyone.
I am new to the group and wanted to introduce myself. I have been veg
for a number of years. About 15 years ago while travelling in the Mid
East, I started connecting with other animals and decided not to eat
them anymore. I began cooking veg when i got back to the US and wound
up in the kitchen of a health food store in California. I started as a
dishwasher and prep cook. I was there for a few years where I worked as
a chef, baker and manager. When I left, I started a private chef
service called "Blossoming Lotus". I worked on several consulting
projects before moving to Kauai, Hawaii, where we opened the Blossoming
Lotus cafe. That was about 4 years ago. Since then the cafe has grown
into an 80 seat restaurant with outdoor courtyard and a stage for live
nightly music. The atmosphere is pretty amazing. We also put out a
cookbook, Vegan World Fusion Cuisine- with a foreword by Dr. Jane
Goodall. We have also opened another location on the mainland in
Portland, Oregon in Yoga in the Pearl.

I would like to share recipes and inspiration and hear from other
veg*ns out there.

Peace to all
Mark

On 16 Nov 2006 00:20:54 -0800, " > wrote:

>Hi everyone.
>I am new to the group and wanted to introduce myself. I have been veg
>for a number of years. About 15 years ago while travelling in the Mid
>East, I started connecting with other animals and decided not to eat
>them anymore.

· Vegans contribute to the deaths of animals by their use of
wood and paper products, electricity, roads and all types of
buildings, their own diet, etc... just as everyone else does.
What they try to avoid are products which provide life
(and death) for farm animals, but even then they would have
to avoid the following items containing animal by-products
in order to be successful:

Tires, Paper, Upholstery, Floor waxes, Glass, Water
Filters, Rubber, Fertilizer, Antifreeze, Ceramics, Insecticides,
Insulation, Linoleum, Plastic, Textiles, Blood factors, Collagen,
Heparin, Insulin, Solvents, Biodegradable Detergents, Herbicides,
Gelatin Capsules, Adhesive Tape, Laminated Wood Products,
Plywood, Paneling, Wallpaper and Wallpaper Paste, Cellophane
Wrap and Tape, Abrasives, Steel Ball Bearings

The meat industry provides life for the animals that it
slaughters, and the animals live and die as a result of it
as animals do in other habitats. They also depend on it for
their lives as animals do in other habitats. If people consume
animal products from animals they think are raised in decent
ways, they will be promoting life for more such animals in the
future. People who want to contribute to decent lives for
livestock with their lifestyle must do it by being conscientious
consumers of animal products, because they can not do it by
being vegan.
From the life and death of a thousand pound grass raised
steer and whatever he happens to kill during his life, people
get over 500 pounds of human consumable meat...that's well
over 500 servings of meat. From a grass raised dairy cow people
get thousands of dairy servings. Due to the influence of farm
machinery, and *icides, and in the case of rice the flooding and
draining of fields, one serving of soy or rice based product is
likely to involve more animal deaths than hundreds of servings
derived from grass raised animals. Grass raised animal products
contribute to fewer wildlife deaths, better wildlife habitat, and
better lives for livestock than soy or rice products. ·

<dh@.> wrote in message ...
> On 16 Nov 2006 00:20:54 -0800, "
> wrote:
>
> >Hi everyone.
> >I am new to the group and wanted to introduce myself. I have been veg
> >for a number of years. About 15 years ago while travelling in the Mid
> >East, I started connecting with other animals and decided not to eat
> >them anymore.
>
> · Vegans contribute to the deaths of animals by their use of
> wood and paper products, electricity, roads and all types of
> buildings, their own diet, etc... just as everyone else does.
> What they try to avoid are products which provide life
> (and death) for farm animals, but even then they would have
> to avoid the following items containing animal by-products
> in order to be successful:
>
> Tires, Paper, Upholstery, Floor waxes, Glass, Water
> Filters, Rubber, Fertilizer, Antifreeze, Ceramics, Insecticides,
> Insulation, Linoleum, Plastic, Textiles, Blood factors, Collagen,
> Heparin, Insulin, Solvents, Biodegradable Detergents, Herbicides,
> Gelatin Capsules, Adhesive Tape, Laminated Wood Products,
> Plywood, Paneling, Wallpaper and Wallpaper Paste, Cellophane
> Wrap and Tape, Abrasives, Steel Ball Bearings
>
> The meat industry provides life for the animals that it
> slaughters, and the animals live and die as a result of it
> as animals do in other habitats. They also depend on it for
> their lives as animals do in other habitats. If people consume
> animal products from animals they think are raised in decent
> ways, they will be promoting life for more such animals in the
> future. People who want to contribute to decent lives for
> livestock with their lifestyle must do it by being conscientious
> consumers of animal products, because they can not do it by
> being vegan.
> From the life and death of a thousand pound grass raised
> steer and whatever he happens to kill during his life, people
> get over 500 pounds of human consumable meat...that's well
> over 500 servings of meat. From a grass raised dairy cow people
> get thousands of dairy servings. Due to the influence of farm
> machinery, and *icides, and in the case of rice the flooding and
> draining of fields, one serving of soy or rice based product is
> likely to involve more animal deaths than hundreds of servings
> derived from grass raised animals. Grass raised animal products
> contribute to fewer wildlife deaths, better wildlife habitat, and
> better lives for livestock than soy or rice products. ·

LOL!

Usual load of arse-about-face logic. How does a cow graze in a paddy-field?
It'd sink!

Of course Vegans can't avoid every product that involves the death of an
animal. No-one can. It doesn't mean we should give up though. I just means
that there's a hell of a lot more to do.

The point is: Vegans avoid more of this than meat-eaters.

And BTW, the return on raising food animals has to be measured against the
land, energy, water and feed that they consume, and for the sake of the
ozone layer, the amount of methane that they fart and belch. On the other
hand, crops, like all plants, absorb carbon dioxide and give off oxygen,
thus helping to slow down glogal warming.

I'm not joking. In protein terms alone, the return on cattle when measured
against the feedstuffs they consume is 10% if you're lucky.

And in acreage terms, soya beans produce around ten times the protein that
cattle do, and the Honey Locust Tree around one hundred times!!

Don't feed the trolls, people say. I like to because they're so pathetic.
They're probably all in the pay of the farming industry anyway.

It'd be nice to have their names and addresses though. Then I could make a
much better job of it - by feeding them a slow, controlled dose of
strychnine! Then they'd experience the sort of agony that some animals are
forced to endure.

On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 15:43:29 GMT, "nemo" > wrote:

>
><dh@.> wrote in message ...
>> On 16 Nov 2006 00:20:54 -0800, "
> wrote:
>>
>> >Hi everyone.
>> >I am new to the group and wanted to introduce myself. I have been veg
>> >for a number of years. About 15 years ago while travelling in the Mid
>> >East, I started connecting with other animals and decided not to eat
>> >them anymore.
>>
>> · Vegans contribute to the deaths of animals by their use of
>> wood and paper products, electricity, roads and all types of
>> buildings, their own diet, etc... just as everyone else does.
>> What they try to avoid are products which provide life
>> (and death) for farm animals, but even then they would have
>> to avoid the following items containing animal by-products
>> in order to be successful:
>>
>> Tires, Paper, Upholstery, Floor waxes, Glass, Water
>> Filters, Rubber, Fertilizer, Antifreeze, Ceramics, Insecticides,
>> Insulation, Linoleum, Plastic, Textiles, Blood factors, Collagen,
>> Heparin, Insulin, Solvents, Biodegradable Detergents, Herbicides,
>> Gelatin Capsules, Adhesive Tape, Laminated Wood Products,
>> Plywood, Paneling, Wallpaper and Wallpaper Paste, Cellophane
>> Wrap and Tape, Abrasives, Steel Ball Bearings
>>
>> The meat industry provides life for the animals that it
>> slaughters, and the animals live and die as a result of it
>> as animals do in other habitats. They also depend on it for
>> their lives as animals do in other habitats. If people consume
>> animal products from animals they think are raised in decent
>> ways, they will be promoting life for more such animals in the
>> future. People who want to contribute to decent lives for
>> livestock with their lifestyle must do it by being conscientious
>> consumers of animal products, because they can not do it by
>> being vegan.
>> From the life and death of a thousand pound grass raised
>> steer and whatever he happens to kill during his life, people
>> get over 500 pounds of human consumable meat...that's well
>> over 500 servings of meat. From a grass raised dairy cow people
>> get thousands of dairy servings. Due to the influence of farm
>> machinery, and *icides, and in the case of rice the flooding and
>> draining of fields, one serving of soy or rice based product is
>> likely to involve more animal deaths than hundreds of servings
>> derived from grass raised animals. Grass raised animal products
>> contribute to fewer wildlife deaths, better wildlife habitat, and
>> better lives for livestock than soy or rice products. ·
>
>LOL!
>
>Usual load of arse-about-face logic.

It's just a part of reality that veg*ns necessarily must hate,
because they care so very much more about promoting veg*nism
and their own attempted image at ethical supremacy, than they
are capable of caring about human influence on animals. We see
that all the time.

>How does a cow graze in a paddy-field?
>It'd sink!

Sure, but the facts I pointed out don't have anything at all
to do with cattle grazing in paddy fields. Your extreme cognitive
dissonance, produced by the suggestion that any alternative(s)
could be ethically equivalent or superior to your beloved veg*nism,
causes your brain to malfunction and create absurd distortions in
a desperate attempt to deny the aspects of reality that conflict
with what you want to believe. We see that all the time too.

>Of course Vegans can't avoid every product that involves the death of an
>animal. No-one can. It doesn't mean we should give up though. I just means
>that there's a hell of a lot more to do.
>
>The point is: Vegans avoid more of this than meat-eaters.

Not always. Unlike meat eaters, veg*ns would necessarily be
unable to even consider consuming animal products which contribute
to fewer wildlife deaths than vegetable products, while at the same
time contributing to decent lives for livestock and better habitat for
the wildlife who share it with them.

>And BTW, the return on raising food animals has to be measured against the
>land, energy, water and feed that they consume,
__________________________________________________ _______
Environmental Benefits

Well-managed perennial pastures have several environmental
advantages over tilled land: they dramatically decrease soil
erosion potential. require minimal pesticides and fertilizers,
and decrease the amount of barnyard runoff.

Data from the Soil Conservation Service shows that in 1990, an
average of 4.8 tons of soil per acre was lost to erosion on
Wisconsin cropland and an average of 2.6 tons of soil per acre
was lost on Minnesota cropland. Converting erosion-prone land to
pasture is a good way to minimize this loss since perennial
pastures have an average soil loss of only 0.8 tons per acre. It
also helps in complying with the nationwide "T by 2000" legislation
whose goal is that erosion rates on all fields not exceed tolerable
limits ("T") by the year 2000. Decreasing erosion rates will preserve
the most fertile soil with higher water holding capacity for future
crop production. It will also protect our water quality.

High levels of nitrates and pesticides in our ground and surface waters
can cause human, livestock, and wildlife health problems. Pasturing has
several water quality advantages. It reduces the amount of nitrates and
pesticides which leach into our ground water and contaminate surface
waters. It also can reduce barnyard runoff which may destroy fish and
wildlife habitat by enriching surface waters with nitrogen and
phosphorous which promotes excessive aquatic plant growth (leading to
low oxygen levels in the water which suffocates most water life).

Wildlife Advantages

Many native grassland birds, such as upland sandpipers, bobolinks, and
meadowlarks, have experienced significant population declines within
the past 50 years. Natural inhabitants of the prairie, these birds
thrived in the extensive pastures which covered the state in the early
1900s. With the increased conversion of pasture to row crops and
frequently-mowed hay fields, their habitat is being disturbed and their
populations are now at risk.

Rotational grazing systems have the potential to reverse this decline
because the rested paddocks can provide undisturbed nesting habitat.
(However, converting existing under-grazed pasture into an intensive
rotational system where forage is used more efficiently may be
detrimental to wildlife.) Warm-season grass paddocks which aren't grazed
until late June provide especially good nesting habitat. Game birds, such
as pheasants, wild turkey, and quail also benefit from pastures, as do
bluebirds whose favorite nesting sites are fenceposts. The wildlife
benefits of rotational grazing will be greatest in those instances where
cropland is converted to pasture since grassland, despite being grazed,
provides greater nesting opportunity than cropland.

Pesticides can be very damaging to wildlife. though often short lived in
the environment, some insecticides are toxic to birds and mammals
(including humans). Not only do they kill the target pest but many kill a
wide range of insects, including predatory insects that could help prevent
future pest out breaks. Insecticides in surface waters may kill aquatic
invertebrates (food for fish, shorebirds, and water fowl.) Herbicides can
also be toxic to animals and may stunt or kill non-target vegetation which
may serve as wildlife habitat.

http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...s/MIG/Why.html
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
>and for the sake of the
>ozone layer, the amount of methane that they fart and belch. On the other
>hand, crops, like all plants, absorb carbon dioxide and give off oxygen,
>thus helping to slow down glogal warming.
>
>I'm not joking. In protein terms alone, the return on cattle when measured
>against the feedstuffs they consume is 10% if you're lucky.
>
>And in acreage terms, soya beans produce around ten times the protein that
>cattle do, and the Honey Locust Tree around one hundred times!!
>
>Don't feed the trolls, people say. I like to because they're so pathetic.
>They're probably all in the pay of the farming industry anyway.
>
>It'd be nice to have their names and addresses though. Then I could make a
>much better job of it - by feeding them a slow, controlled dose of
>strychnine!

As is the case with most if not all veg*ns you've shown yourself to be
a hate filled, maniacal extremist who is undoubtedly a danger to any humans
who don't go along with the maniacal extremism you personally have chosen
to embrace for your own selfish reasons.

>Then they'd experience the sort of agony that some animals are
>forced to endure.

Why would it be "nice" to poison people for pointing out facts that you
hate, but you won't poison yourself for your own contribution to the
deaths of animals, have you any clue?