I hope you all are not too far beyond this, but I am trying to make my
own sourdough starter from water and whole wheat flour only. I used
half water and and flour and because I read that I should keep it
between 70 and 80 degrees, I put it in the oven where the starter
light gives off some heat and I usually have good results with simple
yeast doughs in there.

The first day my mixture really bubbled up, well actually it bubbled
over and threw the lid off the glass, but it was somewhat promising.
Since then, though, it seems somewhat stagnant, not bubbly at all and
does not look like what I recall my mother's starter to look like at
all. It is quite watery and has a rather puky smell. Does anyone
here know if this starter is still alive or whether it should be
tossed and I should start over?
On a related note, does anyone recommend starting a starter with
commercial yeast? And what are the pros and cons when making a
starter of making it with water or some milk products, such as simply
milk and/or yoghurt?

There is an overwhelming amount of information out there, but somehow
I can't really make rhyme or reason of any of it. Thanks for any
advice anyone may have.

Miriam

On 8 Sep 2004 15:32:20 -0700, (Miriam)
wrote:

>I hope you all are not too far beyond this, but I am trying to make my
>own sourdough starter from water and whole wheat flour only. I used
>half water and and flour and because I read that I should keep it
>between 70 and 80 degrees, I put it in the oven where the starter
>light gives off some heat and I usually have good results with simple
>yeast doughs in there.
>
>The first day my mixture really bubbled up, well actually it bubbled
>over and threw the lid off the glass, but it was somewhat promising.
>Since then, though, it seems somewhat stagnant, not bubbly at all and
>does not look like what I recall my mother's starter to look like at
>all. It is quite watery and has a rather puky smell. Does anyone
>here know if this starter is still alive or whether it should be
>tossed and I should start over?
>On a related note, does anyone recommend starting a starter with
>commercial yeast? And what are the pros and cons when making a
>starter of making it with water or some milk products, such as simply
>milk and/or yoghurt?
>
>There is an overwhelming amount of information out there, but somehow
>I can't really make rhyme or reason of any of it. Thanks for any
>advice anyone may have.
>
>Miriam

Hi Miriam,

I would not suggest that you toss it. Just keep feeding it for several
more days. The reason that it seemed more vigorous at the outset might
be that something other than the desired mix of yeasts and
lactobacilli may have been growing. That often happens.

But, don't give up on it...

Also, you need not grow gallons of starter. Just a bit is all you
need. So, when you feed it, take a spoonful of what you have, add to
that some water and flour and toss the remainder of your older
starter.

Finally, the critters that grow in a healthy sourdough culture are not
the same as those in diary products, fruit, etc.

My suggestion would be that you eat the dairy products, and feed your
young culture with flour and water only.

Have fun, and good luck with it,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Kenneth wrote:

> I would not suggest that you toss it. Just keep feeding it for several
> more days. The reason that it seemed more vigorous at the outset might
> be that something other than the desired mix of yeasts and
> lactobacilli may have been growing. That often happens.

Kenneth, I've been growing a starter for the last week and I'm hoping to
try baking with it this weekend (see earlier thread). One question I
have is can I keep the starter out of the fridge and keep feeding it
daily indefinitely, or does the time come when I have to put it in the
fridge and suspend its activity? Will its flavour/activity develop if I
keep doing daily feeds, or am I just wasting time and flour?

Cheers,

james

On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 09:11:36 +0800, James >
wrote:

>Kenneth wrote:
>
>> I would not suggest that you toss it. Just keep feeding it for several
>> more days. The reason that it seemed more vigorous at the outset might
>> be that something other than the desired mix of yeasts and
>> lactobacilli may have been growing. That often happens.
>
>Kenneth, I've been growing a starter for the last week and I'm hoping to
>try baking with it this weekend (see earlier thread). One question I
>have is can I keep the starter out of the fridge and keep feeding it
>daily indefinitely, or does the time come when I have to put it in the
>fridge and suspend its activity? Will its flavour/activity develop if I
>keep doing daily feeds, or am I just wasting time and flour?
>
>Cheers,
>
>james

Hi James,

The only difference of significance between storing the starter at
room temp and in the fridge is "speed."

The colder temperatures simply slows the process of growth.

If you store it cold you would have to warm it, and then feed it a few
cycles before using it. Those feeds would bring it back to the same
state as it would display were it stored at room temperature.

The only disadvantage to storing it at room temperature is that it
will require more frequent feedings. The upside is that it would be
ready to use more quickly.

HTH,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

At 05:25 AM 9/9/2004, Kenneth wrote:

>Hi James,
>
>The only difference of significance between storing the starter at
>room temp and in the fridge is "speed."

Well, since the growth factors of the organisms are temperature dependent
and have peaks at different temperatures, one would think that
growing/retarding starters at various temperatures would affect the
outcomes somewhat. If it's noticeable and/or controllable for us
home-sourheads is another question.

Samartha

>The colder temperatures simply slows the process of growth.
>
>If you store it cold you would have to warm it, and then feed it a few
>cycles before using it. Those feeds would bring it back to the same
>state as it would display were it stored at room temperature.
>
>The only disadvantage to storing it at room temperature is that it
>will require more frequent feedings. The upside is that it would be
>ready to use more quickly.
>
>HTH,
>
>--
>Kenneth
>
>If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
>_______________________________________________


remove "-nospam" when replying, and it's in my email address

On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 07:29:49 -0600, Samartha
> wrote:

>At 05:25 AM 9/9/2004, Kenneth wrote:
>
>>Hi James,
>>
>>The only difference of significance between storing the starter at
>>room temp and in the fridge is "speed."
>
>Well, since the growth factors of the organisms are temperature dependent
>and have peaks at different temperatures, one would think that
>growing/retarding starters at various temperatures would affect the
>outcomes somewhat. If it's noticeable and/or controllable for us
>home-sourheads is another question.
>
>Samartha
>
>>The colder temperatures simply slows the process of growth.
>>
>>If you store it cold you would have to warm it, and then feed it a few
>>cycles before using it. Those feeds would bring it back to the same
>>state as it would display were it stored at room temperature.
>>
>>The only disadvantage to storing it at room temperature is that it
>>will require more frequent feedings. The upside is that it would be
>>ready to use more quickly.
>>
>>HTH,
>>
>>--
>>Kenneth
>>
>>If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
>>______________________________________________ _
>
>
>remove "-nospam" when replying, and it's in my email address

Hi Samartha,

Of course you are right, but I do wonder:

Do you think that there are likely to be noticeable differences
between a starter stored at room temperature (and fed on an
appropriate schedule) and one stored in the fridge, and then as I
suggested in the post above fed a few cycles at room temp?

There certainly might be. I just don't know.

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Kenneth wrote:

> The only disadvantage to storing it at room temperature is that it
> will require more frequent feedings. The upside is that it would be
> ready to use more quickly.

Thanks for the advice, Kenneth. Once I've had a few more baking
expermints over the weekend then, I'll probably put the rest of my
starter in the fridge until the following weekend.

From my limited experience, I would second your earlier advice to "have
fun" with the whole process. Playing with my new starter of the last
week has been tremendously enjoyable and a got a real kick seeing it
actually raise a very rudimentary "loaf" this evening. The experience of
feeding and watching the starter has taught me more than all the (very
good) information in the faqs, and I feel like I'm gradually getting
more of a feel for how the whole thing works.

Cheers,

james

"James" > wrote in message
...
> Kenneth wrote:
>
> > The only disadvantage to storing it at room temperature is that it
> > will require more frequent feedings. The upside is that it would be
> > ready to use more quickly.
>
> Thanks for the advice, Kenneth. Once I've had a few more baking
> expermints over the weekend then, I'll probably put the rest of my
> starter in the fridge until the following weekend.
>
> From my limited experience, I would second your earlier advice to "have
> fun" with the whole process. Playing with my new starter of the last
> week has been tremendously enjoyable and a got a real kick seeing it
> actually raise a very rudimentary "loaf" this evening. The experience of
> feeding and watching the starter has taught me more than all the (very
> good) information in the faqs, and I feel like I'm gradually getting
> more of a feel for how the whole thing works.
>
> Cheers,
>
> james

I keep my starter in a glass bowl covered with plastic film at room
temperature. I make sourdough bread only once per week. I pull the dried
"skin" from the starter, discard it, measure out what I need for the day's
bread and then replace the starter I took with flour and water. Then it
stays like that for another week. It's been working perfectly for many
months. I've never tried the refrigerator simply because I don't have room
for it.

Fred
Foodie Forums
http://www.foodieforums.com

"James" > wrote in message
...
> Kenneth wrote:
>
> > The only disadvantage to storing it at room temperature is that it
> > will require more frequent feedings. The upside is that it would be
> > ready to use more quickly.
>
> Thanks for the advice, Kenneth. Once I've had a few more baking
> expermints over the weekend then, I'll probably put the rest of my
> starter in the fridge until the following weekend.
>
> From my limited experience, I would second your earlier advice to "have
> fun" with the whole process. Playing with my new starter of the last
> week has been tremendously enjoyable and a got a real kick seeing it
> actually raise a very rudimentary "loaf" this evening. The experience of
> feeding and watching the starter has taught me more than all the (very
> good) information in the faqs, and I feel like I'm gradually getting
> more of a feel for how the whole thing works.
>
> Cheers,
>
> james

I keep my starter in a glass bowl covered with plastic film at room
temperature. I make sourdough bread only once per week. I pull the dried
"skin" from the starter, discard it, measure out what I need for the day's
bread and then replace the starter I took with flour and water. Then it
stays like that for another week. It's been working perfectly for many
months. I've never tried the refrigerator simply because I don't have room
for it.

Fred
Foodie Forums
http://www.foodieforums.com

Kenneth wrote:

> The only disadvantage to storing it at room temperature is that it
> will require more frequent feedings. The upside is that it would be
> ready to use more quickly.

Thanks for the advice, Kenneth. Once I've had a few more baking
expermints over the weekend then, I'll probably put the rest of my
starter in the fridge until the following weekend.

From my limited experience, I would second your earlier advice to "have
fun" with the whole process. Playing with my new starter of the last
week has been tremendously enjoyable and a got a real kick seeing it
actually raise a very rudimentary "loaf" this evening. The experience of
feeding and watching the starter has taught me more than all the (very
good) information in the faqs, and I feel like I'm gradually getting
more of a feel for how the whole thing works.

Cheers,

james

At 05:25 AM 9/9/2004, Kenneth wrote:

>Hi James,
>
>The only difference of significance between storing the starter at
>room temp and in the fridge is "speed."

Well, since the growth factors of the organisms are temperature dependent
and have peaks at different temperatures, one would think that
growing/retarding starters at various temperatures would affect the
outcomes somewhat. If it's noticeable and/or controllable for us
home-sourheads is another question.

Samartha

>The colder temperatures simply slows the process of growth.
>
>If you store it cold you would have to warm it, and then feed it a few
>cycles before using it. Those feeds would bring it back to the same
>state as it would display were it stored at room temperature.
>
>The only disadvantage to storing it at room temperature is that it
>will require more frequent feedings. The upside is that it would be
>ready to use more quickly.
>
>HTH,
>
>--
>Kenneth
>
>If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
>_______________________________________________


remove "-nospam" when replying, and it's in my email address

On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 09:11:36 +0800, James >
wrote:

>Kenneth wrote:
>
>> I would not suggest that you toss it. Just keep feeding it for several
>> more days. The reason that it seemed more vigorous at the outset might
>> be that something other than the desired mix of yeasts and
>> lactobacilli may have been growing. That often happens.
>
>Kenneth, I've been growing a starter for the last week and I'm hoping to
>try baking with it this weekend (see earlier thread). One question I
>have is can I keep the starter out of the fridge and keep feeding it
>daily indefinitely, or does the time come when I have to put it in the
>fridge and suspend its activity? Will its flavour/activity develop if I
>keep doing daily feeds, or am I just wasting time and flour?
>
>Cheers,
>
>james

Hi James,

The only difference of significance between storing the starter at
room temp and in the fridge is "speed."

The colder temperatures simply slows the process of growth.

If you store it cold you would have to warm it, and then feed it a few
cycles before using it. Those feeds would bring it back to the same
state as it would display were it stored at room temperature.

The only disadvantage to storing it at room temperature is that it
will require more frequent feedings. The upside is that it would be
ready to use more quickly.

HTH,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Kenneth wrote:

> I would not suggest that you toss it. Just keep feeding it for several
> more days. The reason that it seemed more vigorous at the outset might
> be that something other than the desired mix of yeasts and
> lactobacilli may have been growing. That often happens.

Kenneth, I've been growing a starter for the last week and I'm hoping to
try baking with it this weekend (see earlier thread). One question I
have is can I keep the starter out of the fridge and keep feeding it
daily indefinitely, or does the time come when I have to put it in the
fridge and suspend its activity? Will its flavour/activity develop if I
keep doing daily feeds, or am I just wasting time and flour?

Cheers,

james

James wrote:
> Kenneth wrote:
>
> > I would not suggest that you toss it. Just keep feeding it for
several
> > more days. The reason that it seemed more vigorous at the outset
might
> > be that something other than the desired mix of yeasts and
> > lactobacilli may have been growing. That often happens.
>
> Kenneth, I've been growing a starter for the last week and I'm hoping
to
> try baking with it this weekend (see earlier thread). One question I
> have is can I keep the starter out of the fridge and keep feeding it
> daily indefinitely, or does the time come when I have to put it in
the
> fridge and suspend its activity? Will its flavour/activity develop if
I
> keep doing daily feeds, or am I just wasting time and flour?
>
> Cheers,
>
> james

You crazy man.

"Miriam" > wrote in message
om...
> I hope you all are not too far beyond this, but I am trying to make my
> own sourdough starter from water and whole wheat flour only. I used
> half water and and flour and because I read that I should keep it
> between 70 and 80 degrees, I put it in the oven where the starter
> light gives off some heat and I usually have good results with simple
> yeast doughs in there.
>
> The first day my mixture really bubbled up, well actually it bubbled
> over and threw the lid off the glass, but it was somewhat promising.
> Since then, though, it seems somewhat stagnant, not bubbly at all and
> does not look like what I recall my mother's starter to look like at
> all. It is quite watery and has a rather puky smell. Does anyone
> here know if this starter is still alive or whether it should be
> tossed and I should start over?
> On a related note, does anyone recommend starting a starter with
> commercial yeast? And what are the pros and cons when making a
> starter of making it with water or some milk products, such as simply
> milk and/or yoghurt?
>
> There is an overwhelming amount of information out there, but somehow
> I can't really make rhyme or reason of any of it. Thanks for any
> advice anyone may have.
>
> Miriam

On 9/10/04 8:54 AM, "Janet Bostwick" > wrote:

>
> "James" > wrote in message
> ...
> snip
>> I know, but I've more fun doing this than you can imagine, and I feel
>> like I've learned lots, so even if my results are unpredictable I've
>> certainly enjoyed the journey.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> james
>
> Since you are enjoying the learning experience, why don't you experiment a
> little further and learn a little more about your starter and what happens
> when you feed it? Feed your starter and place it in a clean, straight-sided
> container for the 24 hour period. Using a piece of tape that you can write
> on, run the tape down the container from top to bottom. Mark the tape and
> note the time every time you observe the level in the container. This
> should help you figure out your starters activity schedule and help you
> determine approximately when your starter reaches its peak.
> Janet

Wonderful!

In my old life in direct marketing, this is what we called a BGO or
"blinding glimpse of the obvious". A BGO is rare, occurring when someone
avoids the clutter and zeros in on the most elegant (and often parsimonious)
solution to a challenge or objective.

Haven't seen this piece of advice in any of the books...

Will


>
>
> _______________________________________________
> rec.food.sourdough mailing list
>
> http://www.otherwhen.com/mailman/lis...food.sourdough

On 9/10/04 9:29 AM, "Charles Perry" > wrote:

>
>
> Dick Adams wrote:
>>
>
>> ... whereas
>> Mr. Perry leans a bit towards mythology and communication with the
>> spirit world.
>>
>
> You have taken to calling yourself a sourdough minimalist, are
> you suggesting that I should call myself a sourdough animist?
> Well, I don't think that I am. In fact, Ticker considers that
> one of my major failings.
>
> I have, on occaision, pointed out the importance of good Karma in
> the kitchen and tried to educate some about the role of the Bread
> Faeries in the bread making process. There is no cognitive
> dissonance involved with these activities and holding a
> realtively traditional theological view.
>
> I was lucky enough to learn about the Wee Folk from my Irish
> grandmother, but any of you can visit an Irish pub. Ask any of
> the pubs regulars about whether the Wee Folk are real or
> imaginary and you will get an education. Anyway, we now have
> proof, about the Bread Faeries anyway, because of the pictures
> that were posted here not too long ago.
>
> Regards,
>
> Charles

I kind of like "sourdough animist" actually. My current kitchen was
remodeled by a feng shui practicioner. The interiors of the cabinet doors
are painted in a variety of colors, mirrors redirect energy...

I have learned to keep the doughs out of the mirror views.

It seems logical if I have Green Dragons and Black Turtles you can have
faeries.

Will

"williamwaller" > wrote in message
news:mailman.31.1094827921.1141.rec.food.sourdough @mail.otherwhen.com...
> On 9/10/04 9:29 AM, "Charles Perry" > wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > >
> I kind of like "sourdough animist" actually. My current kitchen was
> remodeled by a feng shui practicioner.

Tut, tut!! You should have used a diviner and you should seriously consider
getting your aura checked. Furthermore, get a priest in with his bell, book
and candle to sort out the good from the bad kitchen spirits;-)
Graham

williamwaller wrote:

> On 9/10/04 9:29 AM, "Charles Perry" > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Dick Adams wrote:
>>>
>>
>>> ... whereas
>>> Mr. Perry leans a bit towards mythology and communication with the
>>> spirit world.
>>>
>>
>> You have taken to calling yourself a sourdough minimalist, are
>> you suggesting that I should call myself a sourdough animist?
>> Well, I don't think that I am. In fact, Ticker considers that
>> one of my major failings.
>>
>> I have, on occaision, pointed out the importance of good Karma in
>> the kitchen and tried to educate some about the role of the Bread
>> Faeries in the bread making process. There is no cognitive
>> dissonance involved with these activities and holding a
>> realtively traditional theological view.
>>
>> I was lucky enough to learn about the Wee Folk from my Irish
>> grandmother, but any of you can visit an Irish pub. Ask any of
>> the pubs regulars about whether the Wee Folk are real or
>> imaginary and you will get an education. Anyway, we now have
>> proof, about the Bread Faeries anyway, because of the pictures
>> that were posted here not too long ago.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Charles
>
> I kind of like "sourdough animist" actually. My current kitchen was
> remodeled by a feng shui practicioner. The interiors of the cabinet doors
> are painted in a variety of colors, mirrors redirect energy..

A five-year-old is much better. Covered outlets promote safety of the
family, as does locks on knife drawers to ensure blood stays where it
should....

B/

williamwaller wrote:
>
> On 9/10/04 9:29 AM, "Charles Perry" > wrote:
>
> ... My current kitchen was
> remodeled by a feng shui practicioner. The interiors of the cabinet doors
> are painted in a variety of colors, mirrors redirect energy...

Have you read the book "Fang Shui" by Catfucius? In addition to
some common sense information on Feng Shui adapted for felines
and humans, it contains some excellent verses for contemplation.
One of my favorites: " There is great disorder in the heavens -
but the cat still naps."

Although she will not comment, I suspect that Ticker may have had
some hand in the writing of this book. It is so like her writing
and world view. I do know that she is not above using surrogates
or pseudymns to avoid her first agents ongoing claims to all
subsequent intellectual property.

If the lawyers ever get things settled, I am going to encourage
her to write about her competition sourdough starter tasting
career.

Regards,

Charles

--
Charles Perry
Reply to:

** A balanced diet is a cookie in each hand **

williamwaller wrote:
>
> On 9/10/04 9:29 AM, "Charles Perry" > wrote:
>
> ... My current kitchen was
> remodeled by a feng shui practicioner. The interiors of the cabinet doors
> are painted in a variety of colors, mirrors redirect energy...

Have you read the book "Fang Shui" by Catfucius? In addition to
some common sense information on Feng Shui adapted for felines
and humans, it contains some excellent verses for contemplation.
One of my favorites: " There is great disorder in the heavens -
but the cat still naps."

Although she will not comment, I suspect that Ticker may have had
some hand in the writing of this book. It is so like her writing
and world view. I do know that she is not above using surrogates
or pseudymns to avoid her first agents ongoing claims to all
subsequent intellectual property.

If the lawyers ever get things settled, I am going to encourage
her to write about her competition sourdough starter tasting
career.

Regards,

Charles

--
Charles Perry
Reply to:

** A balanced diet is a cookie in each hand **

williamwaller wrote:

> On 9/10/04 9:29 AM, "Charles Perry" > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Dick Adams wrote:
>>>
>>
>>> ... whereas
>>> Mr. Perry leans a bit towards mythology and communication with the
>>> spirit world.
>>>
>>
>> You have taken to calling yourself a sourdough minimalist, are
>> you suggesting that I should call myself a sourdough animist?
>> Well, I don't think that I am. In fact, Ticker considers that
>> one of my major failings.
>>
>> I have, on occaision, pointed out the importance of good Karma in
>> the kitchen and tried to educate some about the role of the Bread
>> Faeries in the bread making process. There is no cognitive
>> dissonance involved with these activities and holding a
>> realtively traditional theological view.
>>
>> I was lucky enough to learn about the Wee Folk from my Irish
>> grandmother, but any of you can visit an Irish pub. Ask any of
>> the pubs regulars about whether the Wee Folk are real or
>> imaginary and you will get an education. Anyway, we now have
>> proof, about the Bread Faeries anyway, because of the pictures
>> that were posted here not too long ago.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Charles
>
> I kind of like "sourdough animist" actually. My current kitchen was
> remodeled by a feng shui practicioner. The interiors of the cabinet doors
> are painted in a variety of colors, mirrors redirect energy..

A five-year-old is much better. Covered outlets promote safety of the
family, as does locks on knife drawers to ensure blood stays where it
should....

B/

On 9/10/04 11:27 AM, "graham" > wrote:

>
> "williamwaller" > wrote in message
> news:mailman.31.1094827921.1141.rec.food.sourdough @mail.otherwhen.com...
>> On 9/10/04 9:29 AM, "Charles Perry" > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>> I kind of like "sourdough animist" actually. My current kitchen was
>> remodeled by a feng shui practicioner.
>
> Tut, tut!! You should have used a diviner and you should seriously consider
> getting your aura checked. Furthermore, get a priest in with his bell, book
> and candle to sort out the good from the bad kitchen spirits;-)
> Graham


Oh dear...My self professed fruit-cake-ness must be explained before DickA
sharpens his pen.

I should have added that the re-modelling was done by a previous owner.
Perhaps not to my credit, it took me a while to figure out what was going
on. My ignorance in the divining arts remains profound. I do, however, keep
the doughs away from the mirrors.

I'll get my aura checked when I become eligible for Medicare in 15 years or
so.

Will

>
>
> _______________________________________________
> rec.food.sourdough mailing list
>
> http://www.otherwhen.com/mailman/lis...food.sourdough

On 9/10/04 11:28 AM, "Brian Mailman" > wrote:

> williamwaller wrote:
>
>> On 9/10/04 9:29 AM, "Charles Perry" > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dick Adams wrote:
>>>>
>>>
>>>> ... whereas
>>>> Mr. Perry leans a bit towards mythology and communication with the
>>>> spirit world.
>>>>
>>>
>>> You have taken to calling yourself a sourdough minimalist, are
>>> you suggesting that I should call myself a sourdough animist?
>>> Well, I don't think that I am. In fact, Ticker considers that
>>> one of my major failings.
>>>
>>> I have, on occaision, pointed out the importance of good Karma in
>>> the kitchen and tried to educate some about the role of the Bread
>>> Faeries in the bread making process. There is no cognitive
>>> dissonance involved with these activities and holding a
>>> realtively traditional theological view.
>>>
>>> I was lucky enough to learn about the Wee Folk from my Irish
>>> grandmother, but any of you can visit an Irish pub. Ask any of
>>> the pubs regulars about whether the Wee Folk are real or
>>> imaginary and you will get an education. Anyway, we now have
>>> proof, about the Bread Faeries anyway, because of the pictures
>>> that were posted here not too long ago.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Charles
>>
>> I kind of like "sourdough animist" actually. My current kitchen was
>> remodeled by a feng shui practicioner. The interiors of the cabinet doors
>> are painted in a variety of colors, mirrors redirect energy..
>
> A five-year-old is much better. Covered outlets promote safety of the
> family, as does locks on knife drawers to ensure blood stays where it
> should....
>
> B/

I had a couple of those a while back. They survived, granted it was a
different kitchen... Heavier on appliances than redirects too.

Will




> _______________________________________________
> rec.food.sourdough mailing list
>
> http://www.otherwhen.com/mailman/lis...food.sourdough

On 8 Sep 2004 15:32:20 -0700, (Miriam)
wrote:

>I hope you all are not too far beyond this, but I am trying to make my
>own sourdough starter from water and whole wheat flour only. I used
>half water and and flour and because I read that I should keep it
>between 70 and 80 degrees, I put it in the oven where the starter
>light gives off some heat and I usually have good results with simple
>yeast doughs in there.
>
>The first day my mixture really bubbled up, well actually it bubbled
>over and threw the lid off the glass, but it was somewhat promising.
>Since then, though, it seems somewhat stagnant, not bubbly at all and
>does not look like what I recall my mother's starter to look like at
>all. It is quite watery and has a rather puky smell. Does anyone
>here know if this starter is still alive or whether it should be
>tossed and I should start over?
>On a related note, does anyone recommend starting a starter with
>commercial yeast? And what are the pros and cons when making a
>starter of making it with water or some milk products, such as simply
>milk and/or yoghurt?
>
>There is an overwhelming amount of information out there, but somehow
>I can't really make rhyme or reason of any of it. Thanks for any
>advice anyone may have.
>
>Miriam

Hi Miriam,

I would not suggest that you toss it. Just keep feeding it for several
more days. The reason that it seemed more vigorous at the outset might
be that something other than the desired mix of yeasts and
lactobacilli may have been growing. That often happens.

But, don't give up on it...

Also, you need not grow gallons of starter. Just a bit is all you
need. So, when you feed it, take a spoonful of what you have, add to
that some water and flour and toss the remainder of your older
starter.

Finally, the critters that grow in a healthy sourdough culture are not
the same as those in diary products, fruit, etc.

My suggestion would be that you eat the dairy products, and feed your
young culture with flour and water only.

Have fun, and good luck with it,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

James wrote:
> Kenneth wrote:
>
> > I would not suggest that you toss it. Just keep feeding it for
several
> > more days. The reason that it seemed more vigorous at the outset
might
> > be that something other than the desired mix of yeasts and
> > lactobacilli may have been growing. That often happens.
>
> Kenneth, I've been growing a starter for the last week and I'm hoping
to
> try baking with it this weekend (see earlier thread). One question I
> have is can I keep the starter out of the fridge and keep feeding it
> daily indefinitely, or does the time come when I have to put it in
the
> fridge and suspend its activity? Will its flavour/activity develop if
I
> keep doing daily feeds, or am I just wasting time and flour?
>
> Cheers,
>
> james

You crazy man.

On 8 Sep 2004 15:32:20 -0700, (Miriam)
wrote:

>I hope you all are not too far beyond this, but I am trying to make my
>own sourdough starter from water and whole wheat flour only. I used
>half water and and flour and because I read that I should keep it
>between 70 and 80 degrees, I put it in the oven where the starter
>light gives off some heat and I usually have good results with simple
>yeast doughs in there.
>
>The first day my mixture really bubbled up, well actually it bubbled
>over and threw the lid off the glass, but it was somewhat promising.
>Since then, though, it seems somewhat stagnant, not bubbly at all and
>does not look like what I recall my mother's starter to look like at
>all. It is quite watery and has a rather puky smell. Does anyone
>here know if this starter is still alive or whether it should be
>tossed and I should start over?
>On a related note, does anyone recommend starting a starter with
>commercial yeast? And what are the pros and cons when making a
>starter of making it with water or some milk products, such as simply
>milk and/or yoghurt?
>
>There is an overwhelming amount of information out there, but somehow
>I can't really make rhyme or reason of any of it. Thanks for any
>advice anyone may have.
>
>Miriam

Hi Miriam,

I would not suggest that you toss it. Just keep feeding it for several
more days. The reason that it seemed more vigorous at the outset might
be that something other than the desired mix of yeasts and
lactobacilli may have been growing. That often happens.

But, don't give up on it...

Also, you need not grow gallons of starter. Just a bit is all you
need. So, when you feed it, take a spoonful of what you have, add to
that some water and flour and toss the remainder of your older
starter.

Finally, the critters that grow in a healthy sourdough culture are not
the same as those in diary products, fruit, etc.

My suggestion would be that you eat the dairy products, and feed your
young culture with flour and water only.

Have fun, and good luck with it,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

On 9/10/04 8:54 AM, "Janet Bostwick" > wrote:

>
> "James" > wrote in message
> ...
> snip
>> I know, but I've more fun doing this than you can imagine, and I feel
>> like I've learned lots, so even if my results are unpredictable I've
>> certainly enjoyed the journey.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> james
>
> Since you are enjoying the learning experience, why don't you experiment a
> little further and learn a little more about your starter and what happens
> when you feed it? Feed your starter and place it in a clean, straight-sided
> container for the 24 hour period. Using a piece of tape that you can write
> on, run the tape down the container from top to bottom. Mark the tape and
> note the time every time you observe the level in the container. This
> should help you figure out your starters activity schedule and help you
> determine approximately when your starter reaches its peak.
> Janet

Wonderful!

In my old life in direct marketing, this is what we called a BGO or
"blinding glimpse of the obvious". A BGO is rare, occurring when someone
avoids the clutter and zeros in on the most elegant (and often parsimonious)
solution to a challenge or objective.

Haven't seen this piece of advice in any of the books...

Will


>
>
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> rec.food.sourdough mailing list
>
> http://www.otherwhen.com/mailman/lis...food.sourdough

On 9/10/04 9:29 AM, "Charles Perry" > wrote:

>
>
> Dick Adams wrote:
>>
>
>> ... whereas
>> Mr. Perry leans a bit towards mythology and communication with the
>> spirit world.
>>
>
> You have taken to calling yourself a sourdough minimalist, are
> you suggesting that I should call myself a sourdough animist?
> Well, I don't think that I am. In fact, Ticker considers that
> one of my major failings.
>
> I have, on occaision, pointed out the importance of good Karma in
> the kitchen and tried to educate some about the role of the Bread
> Faeries in the bread making process. There is no cognitive
> dissonance involved with these activities and holding a
> realtively traditional theological view.
>
> I was lucky enough to learn about the Wee Folk from my Irish
> grandmother, but any of you can visit an Irish pub. Ask any of
> the pubs regulars about whether the Wee Folk are real or
> imaginary and you will get an education. Anyway, we now have
> proof, about the Bread Faeries anyway, because of the pictures
> that were posted here not too long ago.
>
> Regards,
>
> Charles

I kind of like "sourdough animist" actually. My current kitchen was
remodeled by a feng shui practicioner. The interiors of the cabinet doors
are painted in a variety of colors, mirrors redirect energy...

I have learned to keep the doughs out of the mirror views.

It seems logical if I have Green Dragons and Black Turtles you can have
faeries.

Will