Hello all, I have thisevening baked my first sourdough loaves. This was my
procedu

Sunday mixed 100g water with 100g white flour, left out, covered
Monday bubbles appearing
Tue added same again to increase the volume so I have 400g sponge, left
out.
Wed kneaded sponge flour, water and salt together to make full dough, left
out some hours then refridgerated.
Thurs turned out dough, divided, shaped with minimum action to retain gas,
rested 1.5 hrs and baked
Not a bad result but I have some questions.

I mixed up a small ferment from flour and water and baked four days later.
If I keep a starter alive in the fridge I can see it will save me a couple
of days but there must be some other advantage. Why not just start a new
starter every time?

What is the best proportion of flour to water for a starter? I did 50-50 by
weight or 100% hydration but I see a drier starter is sometimes recommended.

I calculated 65% hydration for the final dough then added another 200g of
flour (To make 1200g flour to 65g water or 54% hydration finally) because it
seemed so wet. The dough was still suprisingly liquid. Is that really the
right degree of hydration?

I remember from when I used to brew beer that aeration was considered
essential to get the yeast count to increase. I haven't seen any
instructions for sourdough which say to get air into the starter or the
sponge to get the yeast increasing. Is this not done?

Thanks,

Ti9m W

Tim W wrote:
> ... I have some questions...
>
> Why not just start a new
> starter every time?

You were lucky to get a usable starter in four days. This is possible
with rye, but not the usual result with wheat flour.

>
> What is the best proportion of flour to water for a starter? I did 50-50 by
> weight or 100% hydration but I see a drier starter is sometimes recommended.
>

To begin a new starter or revive a dried starter, I recommend 50-50 by
volume. the fermentation will proceed faster in a thinner culture.
50-50 by weight is a better consistency for on-going cultures. The 100%
hydration is also easier for recipe calculations.

> I calculated 65% hydration for the final dough then added another 200g of
> flour (To make 1200g flour to 65g water or 54% hydration finally) because it
> seemed so wet. The dough was still suprisingly liquid. Is that really the
> right degree of hydration?
>

In the context of home baking, hydration of the dough is almost
meaningless as a measure of dough viscosity. Depending on several
things, but mainly on the ability of the flour to absorb liquid, a given
hydration can be either a soupy mess or a fairly stiff dough. Also, you
may have experienced gluten destruction by an over fermented starter.


> I remember from when I used to brew beer that aeration was considered
> essential to get the yeast count to increase. I haven't seen any
> instructions for sourdough which say to get air into the starter or the
> sponge to get the yeast increasing. Is this not done?
>

The sourdough yeasts can ferment with or without oxygen in the process.
Stored liquid culture will default mainly to the anaerobic pathway.
There is not any great advantage to introduce air into the culture.

If you revive two samples of dried sourdough culture and aerate one
sample and not the other, the stirred sample will revive slightly
faster. This result is consistent, but meaningless because the
advantage is in minutes over 24 hours. It also is not clear if the
advantage is due to increased oxygen or to better food distribution in
the stirred sample.

Charles

I wonder if any of the luck part of this can be attributed to the last part
of the original post:
"I remember from when I used to brew beer"

Now I don't know much about making beer, but I do believe there is an awful
lot of yeast involved, which has probably permeated into every carpet,
curtain, wooden bowl and spoon, etc in the house. I wonder how much of that
yeast is actively floating around looking to invade some unsuspecting glop
of flour and water?

hutchndi wrote:
> ... invade some unsuspecting glop
> of flour and water?
>
and then dies peacefully since it can't take the acidic acid of the SD LB's.
If.... it ever makes it there, into the glob where gazillions of other
critters having a party for a short time as well.

Sam

Ha, what acidic state exists in a fresh mixture of flour and water? One can
get a sponge going from batch of flour and water an a single grain of yeast,
without those gazzilions putting up much of a fight, for awhile anyways.

"Sam" > wrote in message
news:mailman.2.1258912076.19236.rec.food.sourdough @www.mountainbitwarrior.com...
> hutchndi wrote:
>> ... invade some unsuspecting glop of flour and water?
> and then dies peacefully since it can't take the acidic acid of the SD
> LB's.
> If.... it ever makes it there, into the glob where gazillions of other
> critters having a party for a short time as well.
>
> Sam
>

hutchndi wrote:
> Ha, what acidic state exists in a fresh mixture of flour and water?
Guess about pH 4.5 -ish. You tell me if that's alkaline, neutral or acidic.

> One can
> get a sponge going from batch of flour and water an a single grain of yeast,
> without those gazzilions putting up much of a fight, for awhile anyways.
>
And?
Your post asks/wonders/implies that there may be beer yeast getting into
a SD culture from carpets and such when started.
If it's a good culture, it won't stay - right?

Sam

"Sam" > wrote in message
news:mailman.3.1258922994.19236.rec.food.sourdough @www.mountainbitwarrior.com...
>
> hutchndi wrote:
>> Ha, what acidic state exists in a fresh mixture of flour and water?
> Guess about pH 4.5 -ish. You tell me if that's alkaline, neutral or
> acidic.
>
>> One can get a sponge going from batch of flour and water an a single
>> grain of yeast, without those gazzilions putting up much of a fight, for
>> awhile anyways.
>>
> And? Your post asks/wonders/implies that there may be beer yeast getting
> into a SD culture from carpets and such when started.
> If it's a good culture, it won't stay - right?
>
This business of yeasts in the air - frankly I don't really believe it. The
yeast is in the flour, no?
I used organic local wholemeal in a clean bowl with clean water, mixed it
and covered it. If a single yeast or two got in from the air it would take
weeks before it had multiplied enough to make any visible fermentation.

Tim W

100g white flour? I assumed this meant all purpose white flour.

"Tim W" > wrote in message
...
>
> I used organic local wholemeal in a clean bowl with clean water, mixed it
> and covered it. If a single yeast or two got in from the air it would take
> weeks before it had multiplied enough to make any visible fermentation.
>
> Tim W
>

Tim W wrote:
>
> This business of yeasts in the air - frankly I don't really believe it. The
> yeast is in the flour, no?
> I used organic local wholemeal in a clean bowl with clean water, mixed it
> and covered it. If a single yeast or two got in from the air it would take
> weeks before it had multiplied enough to make any visible fermentation.
>
> Tim W
>

The "catching from air" number has been numerously discredited here and
it comes up again and again.

You got it right - congrats!

Sam

Samartha's scalded flour tests? What about Dick Adams nose sniffins?

"Sam" > wrote in message
news:mailman.4.1258941778.19236.rec.food.sourdough @www.mountainbitwarrior.com...
>
> The "catching from air" number has been numerously discredited here and
> it comes up again and again.

My apologies to Dick Adams, I was referring to his famous nose puppies. I
imagine (and hope) that somewhere between his nose and his mix, they do
become airborne.